In this episode, Craig speaks with Patrick Carroll about his article If You Vote You Can’t Complain. Their discussion explores topics on suffrage in Canada and the United States and possible answers to why voters seem to be growing more and more apathetic to participating in the democratic system.
They explore the problem with “defensive voting” and how it may not be disrespectful to the past to refrain from casting your ballot every 2-4 years. In the midst of a Presidential Election in the US, this episode is an offering to listeners to consider what a vote is, who gives you that right, and who’s Kingdom you may be endorsing by participating in a system that upholds its power through force.
Timestamps and links to start learning more:
01:10 Who is Patrick Carroll
Bubble Zone Laws - Ontario
Libertarianism (3:34)
04:05 What prompted Patrick to write his article “You Can’t Complain if You Vote”
Response to you can’t complain if you don’t vote
Voting as complicity in system you are complaining about
06:26 Explaining low voter turnout
Voter turnout for the USA is around 58% (Craig guess of 50% was close!)
Voter turnout for Canada is - trends
11:29 Let’s (anarchist/voluntaryist) talk to the nonvoters
Building a movement
How many are there?
Explore political philosophies and systems
Rethinking what drives the systems we live in
15:54 Speaking to individuals vs. groups
19:45 Relationship between individualism/collectivism and fallacy of representation
Foundation of Economic Education(FEE), Out of Frame series written by Sean Malone
Suppression of the minority by the majority in democracy
Tyranny majority over the minority and individual
23:38 Justin explains Canada’s political systems and issues he has seen in elections
Canadian government - how it works
Government actually represents a small (partisan) subset of the population
26:10 Popular vote vs. who actually wins in US politics
The 2016 election
Each state has their own presidential election
27:55 Response to “why you should vote” i.e. people have died for the vote, disrespect to suffrage movements, ect.
Is it disrespectful to ask politicians to rule over your neighbors?
Is voting important?
Positive rights vs. negative rights
Positive rights means someone else has a corresponding responsibility (similar to entitlement)
Negative implies someone has to not do something e.g. Freedom of Speech means others have to not interfere with your speech
The “right” to vote only exist in context of the state
Is right to have say in how you are ruled
Misnomer to call voting a right
The “right” to vote only exist in context of the state
Can be seen as right to have say in how you are ruled
Respecting people starts by not ruling over people, which, on the contrary, voting supports
33:11 Is America following the constitution?
“Defensive voting” not possible as voting legitimizes the State
Is America following the constitution?
Actions vs. integrity
Living Constitution vs. Originalism
Undermining the principle of Law itself
George Washington undermines oath to Constitution - Whiskey Rebellion
37:07 Voting and Slavery
“Asking your master implies it is their choice...legitimizing their role as master”
Being principled is most pragmatic approach, “defensive voting” compromise principles
Abolitionist movement was uncompromising
Anything less than total abolition of slavery was not sufficient
Being ruthlessly principled is the way of Jesus
Example: He could have gone on military conquest and overthrown the Romans
41:27 We need to stop pretending
Can a broken system fix itself?
Does it have an interest to?
What message does showing up at the poles send?
44:30 Patrick’s Plugs
Patrick’s article If You Vote You Can’t Complain