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52. Yemen: The War with No End with Scott Horton

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About this episode

Scott Horton provides the truth about current events with historical context. He has a way of weaving together seemingly unconnected events to paint a big picture most people cannot see for themselves. He is the director of The Libertarian Institute, editor of antiwar.com, and runs a popular podcast called The Scott Horton Show.

Scott returns to The Bad Roman once again, in the midst of a media frenzy around Putin’s war with Ukraine, to remind us (and educate us) on the ongoing war, and general disruption, the United State of America has been wagging in Yemen and the Middle East.

What we’re doing in Yemen is illegal. We are providing every kind of support (besides troops) to Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Al Qaeda as they bomb and blockade the Houthi people in the north. Children are starving. And what do we even gain from this? A bit of money for a corporation? A feeling of world domination? There is a long, complicated history of us meddling in the Middle East that led us to this point. Scott Horton sorts it out for us. 

To learn more about Scott Horton and his work, you can follow Scott on Twitter. buy or listen to his books about the war in the Middle East. If you are interested in learning more about the situation and Yemen and the middle east check out episode 23, our first interview with Scott.

EPISODE TIMESTAMPS:

1:57 What happened to Biden’s Promise?

  • He ordered that everything we were doing in Yemen stop

    • Yet it continues

    • He ordered that resupply and maintenance, intelligence and logistics from the US cease

    • The US used to refuel Saudi/UAE planes in the air and created a Navy blockade against Iran, but stopped 

    • Admiral Kirby had said they were going to implement Biden’s order in February

      • By May, he was saying, “Of course, we need to send them plane maintenance teams”

      • After that, we just resumed our support

5:40 The Price of War

  • Civilians are suffering the most

  • No one is even keeping a casualty count for citizens

  • They’ll tell us about the humanitarian crisis after it’s all over

6:46 Why no one cares in the US

  • Yemen is far away

  • People don’t even know where it is

  • Also, we’re not sending troops to die or be injured there, so it’s not personal to us

7:33 Why do we keep it going?

  • We have to do whatever Saudi Arabia tells us

  • Money

    • From arms sales to Saudis

  • There will not be a good enough reason to satisfy us

    • Nothing they could say would make this reasonable

  • Petrodollar

  • To stay dominant in the Middle East

10:35 Who is our enemy?

  • Right now, we’re backing Al Qaeda

  • Obama’s drone wars were against Al Qaeda

    • Special forces sent in a lot

      • Still probably are at times

      • But we are not occupying

  • Switched sides in 2015

11:43 People's awareness

  • Even when we fully invaded Iraq, people stopped paying attention by the end of 2003

  • Even well-educated friend thought Yemen was in Africa

    • It’s the southwestern tip of the Arabian Peninsula

  • This has been going on for decades, but no one noticed until Obama started bombing in 2009

    • Except that one incident where Bush bombed a car belonging to Al-Quaeda and killed an American who was hanging out with them

      • After that, he let the Yemeni dictator do the fighting

        • The dictator was playing both sides

          • Fighting Al-Qaeda

          • Also paying them to fight the Shiites

    • Obama said that Bush was going after too many groups

      •  Focused on Al-Qaeda

        1. Turns out there were only 29 guys to target

        2. Killed thousands of people in Pakistan

        3. In exchange, we helped them win against the Taliban

        4.  That war led to the rise of ISIS

        5. Al-Qaeda was responsible for

          1. Coordinating 9/11

          2. Tried to bomb a plane over Detroit

          3. Charlie Hebdo attack

          4. Printer cartridge plots

          5. Comic Convention in France

          6. Death metal concert

          7. Other massacres in France

          8. One in Brussels

17:42 Houthi

  • Scott's episode with Shereen, she mentioned that Houthis have more support than ever

  • Sort of like what Ron Paul said

    • They're mad because we're bombing their homes, so they're retaliating the best way they know-how

      • They end up creating or joining terrorist organizations

18:44 Rewind - How did the War in Yemen Start

  • Jimmy Carter’s problem

    • Americans had Vietnam Syndrome – they were done with war

    • His national security advisors wanted to go against Russia

    • They decided if we can't directly fight them, we should convince them to fight a worthless war like we just did and drain all their resources

      • We baited them into unsustainable over-expansion

        • In Afghanistan

        • By supporting the Mujahideen

        • Russia invaded that winter, but who knows if our actions had anything to do with it 

        • We continued to fight the Soviets through the Mujahideen and the Arab Afghan Army

          • Arab men from around the world who came to fight the holy war

          • Formed into Al Qaeda

            • Every Al Qaeda group in the world currently has its roots with fighting for the CIA under Reagan against the Soviets in Afghanistan

        • We also supported Saddam Hussein against Iran in the 80s

          • Our puppet government had been overthrown

          • Supported Saddam for 8 years

            • Until he invaded Kuwait

            • Suddenly, we launched Operation Desert Storm at him

        • Bush Sr. encouraged the Shiite uprising in Iraq

          • until he realized the leaders came from Iran

          • then we had them crushed by Saddam Hussein

            • We blamed him for the massacre and went to war against him

            • “We’re Superman, and it’s our job to protect these Shiites” - Scott

24:44 Why they attacked us

  • We kept our bases in Saudi Arabia to police Iraq and Iran

    • All the Mujahideen mercenaries we had created turned on us

      • We were occupying their holy land

        • Imagine if Jesus had been born in Texas and someone just decided to own that space

  • Revenge

  • For backing Israel against Palestine

  • For supporting dictators in the region

26:09 Their strategy

  • Hit us

  • Bog us down

  • Trick us as we’d tricked the Soviets

    • Get us to invade Afghanistan

      • The loss of Afghani life doesn’t matter to them

        • If they’re true Muslims, they’ll go to Heaven

      • The goal was to break the power of the American Empire

      • America spread the Jihad throughout the region

        • We radicalized people everywhere we went because we brought chaos

27:51 Continued timeline

  • George W took the Shiites his dad abandoned to Baghdad

    • Kicked the Sunnis out of power

      • Pushed them out of the city right into the open arms of Al Qaeda

  • Radicalized fighters from across the region met in Iraq to attack us and the Shiites

    • Suicide bombers

    • Head choppers

    • They targeted civilians and people praying at the mosque

  • After the war, they all went home and caused trouble

    • Syria, Libya, Yemen…

    • Obama took their side in Libya and Syria

  • Obama ordered the CIA to go after Al Qaeda

    • So, they drop bombs and missiles on those associated with Bin Laden

    • Small problem: “People really don't like it when you drop gigantic explosives on their family members and tear their bodies apart.” - Scott

      • Good motivation to join Al Qaeda

        • “Obama's trying to kill these guys, but as he's killing them, he's just essentially watering the garden with their blood and growing more and more of their replacements.” - Scott

31:54 Yemen

  • The USA is bombing Al Qaeda

  • Bribing Saleh in the capital with money and weapons for permission to bomb

    • But he was also hiring Al Qaeda to help him fight his enemies

      • He was losing, and his enemy got stronger with each defeat

      • He also was financing his enemy

    • They were all getting worn out

  • 2011 Arab Spring

    • Successful in Egypt and Tunisia

    • The whole region breaks out and tries to overthrow rulers

    • In Yemen, all groups gathered and agreed: Ali Abdullah Saleh must go

      • Many protests

      • Assassination attempts with explosives

        • 2nd one who injured him went to Saudi Arabia for treatment

      • While he was in the hospital, Hilary made a deal with the Saudis to replace Saleh with his VP

        • They created a one-man election, he would not allow for re-election; he just stayed in office, he caused gas prices to double/triple overnight; made the Houthis’ lives more difficult and then tried to attack them (see a full list of the terrible things this guy did in Scott’s book)

        • He lost, just like Saleh always did, but this time because of Saleh he didn’t go away quietly and took two-thirds of the army with him. They then allied with his former enemies in order to attack the new ruler, who, it turns out, he was actually a Zaydi Shiite from the north

38:00 Houthis vs Saleh’s VP

  • 2014, the Houthi-Saleh alliance seized the capital

  • 2015, US Central Command allied with Houthis

    • Gave them intelligence to fight Al Qaeda

    • … until we didn’t

      • Obama stabbed them in the back

      • Suddenly, we’re allied with Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Al Qaeda trying to drive the Houthis out of power

        • No progress has been made in this war

    • Loophole of responsibility 

      • No American lives are being lost

      • This is a Saudi-led coalition

        • We're just helping them out a bit

41:30 Does that make any sense?

  • We are the empire

    • Saudi Arabia is our client: We make all the equipment in the US - this is our war

    • Why are we begging our clients to stay with us?

      • For money? Why are we so desperate for money?

  • Trump had raised tariffs on China

    • This hurt American manufacturing because pricing and availability changed

    • We’d already cut taxes

    • We decided to bolster the Military-Industrial Complex

    • Made a contract with Raytheon to build all the equipment

    •  as if that boosts our entire economy somehow

    • Trump boasted that Saudi Arabia was spending $450 billion on our weapons 

    • They really only spent $3 billion, which is enough to kill way too many people

    • He claimed that a million jobs were reliant on Saudi Arabia’s purchases

    • Maybe 30,000 are

    • It's really just welfare for big companies that are paid for in human lives 

45:30 What to bomb

  • The Saudi military can bomb whatever they want

  • The US Military can blame things on Saudi Arabia, so they also can attack wherever they want 

  • They're fighting an economic war by bombing farms, roads, and marketplaces

  • Hospitals

  • Bombing water has led to cholera outbreaks

    • Biggest outbreak since WWII

    • Babies and toddlers die of dehydration

48:03 Reminder of who we are fighting

  • Our enemies in Yemen never attacked us

    • Our allies did

  • The Houthis are not heroes, but they never did anything to provoke an attack from us

  • We keep attacking civilians

    • Against Geneva Convention

      • We would lock anyone else up for our crimes

      • Lawyers working for POTUS have written memos saying we’re breaking the law and could get in trouble

  • Every US president involved is a war criminal

    • Every president since Carter is condemned in this episode

    • “They’re just presidents. They’re not America.” - Scott

    • They’re the worst people in North America

    • They’ve all done terrible things; none is better than the others

    • None of this should hurt your feelings. You don’t have a personal connection to any president.

    • “I don't think that you have to condemn America to condemn that man and the decisions he made.” - Scott

    • Both Trump and Obama made decisions to kill thousands just to placate someone else on the hill

    • These men do not represent the wishes or morals of the American people

      • “You can get people to cheer for these things, but only by lying to them from morning to night in order to get them to be afraid and then endorse the idea that their government is only trying their best to protect them when it's just not true” - Scott

    • “I’m not anti-American; I’m anti-government-of-America.” - Craig

    • The average citizen is not guilty except by electing the people who are

56:22 Branch Davidians at Waco

  • Americans

  • Took over a tiny plot of land in a tiny town in Texas

  • FBI & president acted as if they were foreigners

    • The reality is, we’re all American

  • 2 sides + innocents caught in the crossfire

  • Treated David Koresh like Saddam Hussein

    • Called him crazy so they could seize his weapons and kill him “to save everyone else”

    • Same script in 1993 that they used again in 2003

  • The threats they tell us about just aren’t that likely to attack, in reality

    • Unless the US influences the situation to start something

    • “This is the big secret… America has no enemies in the world at all.” - Scott

      • We would be just fine without the Pentagon or a military

        • Ron Paul said we could defend ourselves with just a couple of good submarines holding basic torpedoes

59:46 World powers

  • USA

  • Brazil?

    • 2nd biggest American economy after the US, Canada, and Mexico

      • Canada and Mexico are not threats; we’re friends

    • Does not have a navy

  • Europe

    • Friends

    • Including Russia

      • Putin will tell you we’re partners

  • Africa

    • None

    • Egypt is under our thumb

      • They wouldn’t start a war that shuts down their main source of income (the Suez Canal) and gets them bombed

  • India

    • A billion people, most desperately poor

    • No outward foreign policy in place at all

  • China

    • Our 2nd biggest trading partner

    • Nixon made friends with Mao 50 years ago

      • Separated them from the Soviet Union

      • Mao was so dangerous, it was better to be his friend

    • After Mao died, it was more of a fascist dictatorship with a market economy

    • The worst that might happen is they invade Taiwan, which is unlikely

      • We officially recognize Taiwan as part of China

      • We don’t want a war there, but we probably won’t defend Taiwan

    • Even if they did take Taiwan, they’re not going to go further and overtake the US as the world empire  

  • Other Asian countries

    • Just not interested in conflict

    • Japan is no longer an imperialist power

      • Their population is aging

  • Middle East

    • Conflicts among tribal and religious groups

    • But Iran is not coming for Israel

      • And if they were, Israel is the most aggressive threat in the region

  • “We could just completely shed ourselves of this militarism and be a limited constitutional republic with a free-market capitalist economy.” - Scott

    • No one can look back at the last 20 years and say, “Thank God we did that!”

    • Our bridges and other infrastructure are crumbling

      • We wasted $10 trillion blowing innocent people up

        • To shuffle power around in the Middle East

1:07:13 The humanitarian crisis in Yemen

  • Every 75 seconds, a child dies from hunger due to the blockade

  • Famine

  • The poorest country in the Middle East

  • IMF convinced them to plow under their millet and other food crops

    •  Planted coffee and cotton instead

    •  Sold on the global market so they could trade yummy food from other countries

    •  Worked great until the US blockaded them

      •  You can't eat cotton and coffee

  • Houthis were defined as a terrorist organization, but it was redacted

    • Talking about doing that again

      • Which will make it illegal to send in food or other aid

  • This is not propaganda like Saddam Hussein throwing premature babies on the floor

    • This is real.

    • These babies are dying.

    • Starving to death.

  • “We need to stop doing this; we need to find a different path.” - Craig

1:10:30 Religious War?

  • Christians in the US we’re told we had to go fight the spread of radical Islam

    • Saddam Hussein was an atheist

      • He was afraid of Osama Bin Laden’s Islam

  • For years, we were told we must stop the Muslims from wiping us out

    • Now, we’ve forgotten about them

      • Focus has shifted to China and Russia

  • Truth: “Al Qaeda is still out there and the American policies that drive them to attack us still exist in great measure.” - Scott

  • We support all these kings and sultans

  • The danger comes from American policies messing stuff up

  • It doesn’t have to be this way

  • Most people just don’t understand how the whole story is connected

    • Or that it’s possible for us to not be over there in the Middle East

    • Ron Paul tried to tell people we could get out

      • They simply dismissed him

  • Trump called George W the dumbest and worst

    • Caused Republicans to decide between Bush and Trump: which is worse?

    • If they wanted to stay loyal to the current guy, they had to denounce their old beliefs

    • Also, Trump is ruthless

      • If he thought bombing the Middle East would help America, he would not hesitate

        • But he didn’t think that

        • He wanted out

    • Trump led people to question not only why we were over there under Bush

      • But why we are still over there

  • Colonel Douglas MacGregor

    • Wrote the book on invasions

    • Says we don’t have to be in conflict with Russia

      • Or China

      • We don’t have any enemies at all

        • Anyone who says otherwise needs their head examined

1:18:28 George Washington’s ghost

  • Calling out, “It’s supposed to be a limited republic!”

    • Not in a constant state of war and/or emergency

    • War is only for extreme situations

    • How can we be free or have rights in an emergency state?

  • We are not protecting the Bill of Rights

    • We’re not passing it down

    • It is dying

  • We don't have a pact with Jesus to protect our Bill of Rights

  • You can’t have a limited republic with a world empire

    • Economic pain? High inflation?

      • Empire economics

        • No hard money

          • Must be able to print more for emergencies

      • “This is the bubble, friends, and the crash is coming.” - Scott


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