152. Did Government Authority Justify the Killing of Renee Nicole Good? A Christian View with Larken Rose

Was the shooting of a Christian mother of three, Renee Nicole Good, murder or self-defense? When Christians cheer for state violence, can we claim it is God we actually worship?

Craig sits down with author and provocateur Larken Rose, not to tally clips or dunk on strangers online, but to face a deeper sickness: our culture’s worship of “authority.” The story that played out on an icy street – ICE agents, a woman in a car, three bullets – exposes something far older than any badge. It exposes a rival religion. In that light, this episode is not merely commentary. It’s a mirror for the American church and a call to return to the Sermon on the Mount. 

A House Divided: Flag or Cross?

Followers of Jesus have always had to choose between two rival kingdoms. One hangs its hope on power, control, and the threat of punishment. The other takes up a cross and washes feet. One calls enemies “targets.” The other calls enemies “neighbors.” When a woman is shot through a car window by an agent of the state, the first kingdom asks whether the procedures were followed. The second asks whether love of neighbor has been abandoned.

Many Christians don’t like that contrast. It feels unfair, even accusatory. But the Gospels force the question. Jesus blesses peacemakers, not power-brokers. He rebukes the sword. He refuses to call down fire. He walks through Samaria instead of around it. He tells us that the way we treat the least of these is the way we treat Him.

If that is the King we confess, then any event involving state violence is not just a legal question; it’s a discipleship question. What we defend in public reveals what we worship in private. When a badge is enough to change our moral standard, we have traded the Kingdom for the empire and slapped Jesus’ name on it. That is not orthodoxy. That is idolatry.

What Actually Happened Matters, but Why We Defend It Matters More

Yes, facts matter. Video matters. Angles matter. In this case, people argue over the “first shot” like it’s a courtroom riddle, then skip past the unarguable reality of two more shots fired into a vehicle at a woman who posed no lethal threat. Some admit those facts and then slip into the great American shrug: if the state did it, it must be justified. That reflex is the problem.

Larken names it without blinking: the belief in authority trains ordinary people to excuse evil when their team does it. That is not a left-versus-right issue. It is a worship issue. You can hear it whenever someone says, “Well, she should have obeyed,” as if obedience to a man with a gun is identical to obedience to God. You see it whenever the conversation dodges the moral center, “You shall not murder,” “love your neighbor as yourself,” “blessed are the merciful,” and runs to procedures, politics, and public relations.

The church must refuse that dodge. The Kingdom does not baptize bullets because the shooter is wearing a government costume. The cross does not create exceptions for uniforms. If something is murder without a badge, it is still murder with a badge.

Badges Don’t Make New Morals

Imagine this scene without uniforms. Masked, armed men surround your car, try doors, yell commands, and one of them moves into the lane in front of your hood. If any gang behaved like this, nearly everyone would call it reckless, immoral, and criminal. So why, when the label reads “federal agent,” do some believers flip their ethics upside down? The answer is ugly: many of us believe the state has divine permission to do evil that would be evil for anyone else. We won’t say it that bluntly, but our defenses give it away.

Scripture gives us no such permission. Romans 13 cannot be read against Romans 12 or the Sermon on the Mount. Paul does not cancel Jesus. The early church did not arm itself with Caesar’s sword to spread the Gospel. The fathers we quote on holiness would laugh at the idea that a title grants moral immunity. “No King but Christ” means one moral law for everyone, from the poor to the powerful. Anything else is a golden calf in red, white, and blue paint.

This is why arguments about “procedure” miss the point. Procedures do not create righteousness. Policy manuals do not erase the image of God. If the second and third shots cannot be reconciled with neighbor-love, then they cannot be reconciled with the way of Christ. Period.

Milgram in the Pew: How Training Beats Conscience

Why do otherwise decent people defend what they know is wrong? Larken points to the Milgram experiments for a grim answer. In those studies, ordinary participants believed they were shocking strangers. They trembled. They begged to stop. They knew it was wrong. But a man in a lab coat told them to continue, and their training overpowered their conscience.

The details differ, but the mechanism is the same. Our culture trains us to obey official voices and to distrust our own moral sight. We are deputized by television dramas, press conferences, and patriotic ceremonies until our instinct is to side with uniforms and treat victims as problems. Christians are not immune. We should be. We have a King who heals the ear of His enemy in a garden and rebukes the disciple holding the blade. Yet our formation is often more Fox, CNN, and campaign season than Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Repentance here looks like deprogramming. It looks like reading Scripture as if Jesus actually meant it. It looks like confessing that we’ve excused evil because it felt safe and our team was in charge. It looks like choosing to say out loud, “That was wrong,” even when our political friends frown. In Milgram’s study, the moment one person refused, many others found courage to stop too. The Church can be that person, that voice, that pause button on cruelty.

Tactics Are Not Morals

Some Christians try to solve their discomfort by shifting the conversation: “Maybe she shouldn’t have been there.” “Maybe she should have complied.” “Maybe she should have driven away faster… or slower.” You can say a choice was unwise. You can coach your kids on better tactics when approached by armed men. But none of that baptizes murder. None of it justifies bullets.

The moral center does not move with our tactical advice. Wisdom can help us survive a sinful world; it cannot make sin righteous. When we talk about tactics to avoid talking about morals, we confess our idolatry. We tell on ourselves. We admit that we want to protect the system more than we want to protect the weak.

A healthier church would tell a different story. It would grieve a life lost. It would comfort a neighborhood. It would ask whether our habits and budgets make this kind of violence more likely. It would bless the peacemakers and retrain the reflexes that cheer for force. It would teach children that bravery looks like stepping out of the cycle of retaliation, not doubling down on it.

What the Church Should Have Said

If pastors and Christian leaders had been formed by the Sermon on the Mount, the first public words after the video surfaced would have been simple:

• “This is a tragedy. We grieve with the family.”

• “A badge does not change the image of God in a victim.”

• “Even if procedures were followed, that does not make it moral.”

• “We will not baptize state violence. We will not slander the dead.”

• “We call our people to peacemaking, not to performative outrage.”

Instead, many Christians ran interference for power. Some called the dead a terrorist. Some cherry-picked statutes. Some mocked the neighbors recording the scene. Some asked “Have you not learned?” like a playground bully, as if the point of government is to frighten the populace into submission. This language betrays a different savior. It teaches a different gospel. The cross is replaced by the sword, the pastor’s stole by the riot shield.

We can do better. We must do better. Not to score points against an agency, but to keep our own souls.

The Oldest Lie in Politics: “We’re the Good Guys”

Both major parties baptize violence when it suits their platform. The rhetoric changes. The victims change. The television graphics change. The machine does not. Larken testifies that he too once wore the stickers, cheered the raids, and trusted the system. Many of us did. Repentance looks like telling the truth about that past and refusing to repeat it. It looks like saying, out loud, “I was wrong,” then learning to see our neighbors again without the costume of ideology.

This is not cynicism. It is Christian realism. Jesus did not trust Himself to the crowds because He knew what was in man. He knew the appetite for power would twist even “good policy” into coercion. He knew fear could turn worshipers into executioners. He knew that the devil’s offer, “all the kingdoms of the world if you will bow,” still tempts believers today. That is why He called us to a narrow road.

Constitutions, Laws, and the Kingdom That Outlasts Them

Some listeners want the constitutional angle. Even there, the ground is shaky. The federal charter lists enumerated powers. It does not list a police power to regulate every person’s movement under threat of death. But the deeper Christian point is prior to all constitutions. Even if a law allowed an immoral act, it would not cease to be immoral.

The early Christians didn’t need a bill of rights to love enemies, rescue the vulnerable, and refuse idolatry. They needed a Lord. We have the same Lord. Our public discipleship should look like it.

The Kingdom Answer: Neighbor Love With Skin On

If our loyalty is to the crucified King, our answer is not primarily a hot take. Our answer is a way of life. It looks like walking toward those who are hurting. It looks like letting the doctor check a pulse instead of blocking him with the threat of pepper spray. It looks like telling truth over team loyalty. It looks like Christians becoming the people who can be trusted in a crisis because they are too busy serving to score points.

It also looks like refusing to dehumanize the agents who pulled the trigger. That does not mean excusing evil. It means telling the truth about the act while refusing to hate the actor. It means praying for justice and for their repentance. It means knowing that the same training that crushed a conscience on a street has also numbed consciences in our pews.

The way forward is not complicated, but it is costly: lay down the idolatry of political saviors and take up the cross. Pray for the courage to refuse wicked orders at every level of society. Become a people who would rather lose a platform than lose our soul.

Scripture Trail for the Church Today

• Matthew 5–7: Jesus’ constitution for the Kingdom. Peacemakers. Mercy. Enemy-love. No exceptions for uniforms.

• Romans 12 before Romans 13: Love without hypocrisy. Bless persecutors. Overcome evil with good. Read Chapter 13 in the light of Chapter 12.

• Psalm 146: Do not put your trust in princes. Their plans perish. God guards the sojourner.

• John 4; Luke 10: Jesus walks through Samaria; the neighbor is the one who shows mercy.

Let Scripture reform the reflexes shaped by talk radio and campaign seasons. Let your imagination be drenched in the Kingdom, not the headlines.

Listen & Reflect

🎧 Listen: Anywhere you find your podcasts
💬 Ask: When you see a badge, do you change your moral standard? What does that reveal about your discipleship?
📖 Read: Matthew 5–7; Romans 12–13; Psalm 146; Luke 10.
🤝 Practice: This week, serve a neighbor with no questions asked. No status check. No proof. Just love that acts.

Highlights & Takeaways

• A badge does not create a new morality. Jesus does not grant exceptions for uniforms.

• If you defend the first shot, you still must explain the others. You cannot. The second and third shots indict the soul of our authority-worship.

• Milgram wasn’t a myth. Training often beats conscience. Discipleship must train the conscience to fear God more than men.

• “Tactically unwise” is not a synonym for “deserved death.” Stop shifting the target.

• Romans 13 does not cancel the Sermon on the Mount. The cross judges empire, not the other way around.

• “No King but Christ” means one standard of love for everyone—from the poor to the powerful.

🤝Connect with Larken ROSE:

• The Jones Plantation Film

  • Platforms: Available on Apple TV, Amazon Prime, Tubi, Xmou Play, The Roku Channel, PLEX 

• The Rose Channel

• Book: The Most Dangerous Superstition 

• YouTube

• Candles in the Dark

• Facebook

Episode Timestamps:

(00:00) Framing the question: murder or self-defense? Larken returns for “Swearing Sunday.” 

• Christian allegiance vs. state power.

• Moral frame; allegiance check

• Matthew 5–7; Romans 12

• murder vs self-defense; authority; “No King but Christ”

• Previous Episodes with Larken Rose:

• EP #83 The Cult of Statism with Larken Rose

• EP #91 Breaking Down the Jones Plantation Film with Larken Rose

• EP #134 Larken Rose on Immigration and Christian Values: Challenging the Border Fetish Brigade

(00:41) Banter and burden: 

• The week’s exhaustion and why it still matters to speak.

• Choosing faithfulness over comfort; stewardship of voice

• Jeremiah 20:9

• lament; courage; speak

(01:26) Why people cheer evil: authority myths and plantation logic.

• Authority-worship; compliance culture

• How team colors override conscience

• Milgram Experiments (1963)

• obedience; idolatry; “plantation logic”

• Jones Plantation Movie

(03:40) When evil shows itself, some finally wake up.

• Shock as moral catalyst

• Ephesians 5:11

• exposure; repentance; awakening

(07:01) COVID parallels: neighbors revealed their true loyalties.

• Crisis reveals discipleship

• Romans 12 through Romans 13

• compliance; conscience; neighbor-love

(10:00) Badges and gangs: why morality cannot change with uniforms.

• Uniforms ≠ new morals

• Luke 10; early church witness

• badge; uniform; consistency – one standard for everyone.

(13:00) Craig’s Memphis test: you won’t stop to check a badge when guns are in your face.

• First agent opens the door; second moves in front of the car.

• Threat perception; staged risk

• Use-of-force: imminence

(14:17) “That was murder.” 

• Why shots two and three indict the shooter.

• No imminent threat; lethal overreach

• Matthew 5:21; proportionality

• second shot; third shot; homicide

(16:20) The physician they turned away; the shooter who fled.

• Aid refusal; post-incident flight

• Luke 10 (duty of care)

• physician; pulse check; left scene

(17:40) “Few bad apples?” Where are the good apples denouncing murder.

• Institutional silence; complicity

• Proverbs 31:8–9

• accountability; culture; complicity

(20:00) “Have you not learned?” Obedience by threat is not freedom.

• Intimidation ≠ authority

• Acts 5:29

• coercion; threat; tyranny

(21:15) Milgram: training vs. conscience and why people excuse murder.

• Training overrides conscience

• Milgram Experiments (1963) obedience study

• obedience; conditioning; conscience

(24:13) No other gods: when Christians side with Caesar over Christ.

• State-worship vs Kingdom allegiance

• Exodus 20:3; Matthew 6:24

• idolatry; Caesar; worship

• Laws/titles don’t alter morality

• Sermon on the Mount synthesis

• legalism; morality; authority claims

(33:34) “Was it murder?” clarified.

• No threat posture; face shot

• Self-defense: imminence/necessity

• face shot; no danger; overkill

(34:29) Watch his feet.

• No movement = manufactured “threat”

• Video-analysis heuristic

• feet; staging; false threat

(41:17) Tactics vs. morals: unwise choices don’t justify cages or bullets.

• Prudence ≠ moral guilt

• Romans 12:17–21

• tactics; morals; prudence

(47:17) Bootlicking theology called out.

• Excusing abuse = state worship

• Psalm 146

• princes; loyalty; idolatry

(55:55) Constitutional limits & ICE.

• Enumerated powers; no general police power

• Federalist 45 (Madison) summary

• constitution; federal power; jurisdiction

(1:06:56) Prosecution theater.

• Sacrificial pawn; delay and forget

• Prosecutorial discretion patterns

• show trial; delay; memory

(1:10:04) Signs of moral progress.

• Public conscience awakening

• Culture-shift indicators

• outrage; repentance; awareness

(1:12:37) Keep saying stuff

• Encouragement; close; credits

• Community action; sharing

• keep talking; outro; next steps

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Related Blog Post

151. “I Follow Jesus:” Public Discipleship vs. Christian Nationalism with Deacon Gerri Endicott

This episode started with a small moment at a farmers market. It was Saturday, Craig was standing by his salsa when a woman smiled and said, “Craig?” She was Gerri Endicott.

She had just started listening and wanted to learn about the show and Christian anarchism. They laughed by the jars and swapped information. A few weeks later, that quick hello became this recorded conversation.

Meet Gerri

Gerri serves as an Episcopal deacon. She works a regular job and helps her church pay attention to the world outside its walls. She preaches. She teaches. She helps people show real mercy to real neighbors. She does not want the Bible turned into simple slogans. She believes Scripture should shape people to look like Jesus, not like political teams trying to win.

While they record, Gerri is getting ready to preach on Christ the King Sunday. In the Episcopal and Anglican calendar, that Sunday comes right before Advent. Not every church keeps it. In her parish, it works like a reset. It says what this project keeps saying: No King but Christ.

This is the story the episode tells: a chance meeting, a deeper talk, and a call to love Jesus more than flags and parties.

What a Deacon Is DOES

Gerri lives in the Memphis area and serves around Collierville while working a normal 9 to 5. A deacon helps a church turn outward. That means listening for the pain outside the doors and then going to meet it. It is less about a title and more about being present with people.

Gerri describes her week in simple words: show up where people hurt, carry the church’s prayers into the world, and carry the world’s pain back into the church’s prayers. That might mean preaching on Sunday and checking on a neighbor on Monday. It might mean helping leaders notice needs they missed and helping people meet those needs with quiet faithfulness.

As Gerri puts it, “A deacon turns the church outward. We preach. We teach. We send people to serve,” (04:30–05:10).

Her tone stays calm and hopeful. If you think ministry only means a stage and a microphone, this gives a bigger picture. A lot of the work is small and local: visiting, listening, connecting people, and reminding the church that Jesus is already at work on their street.

“Follower of Jesus,” Not a Brand

Gerri often does not start with, “I am a Christian.” She starts with, “I am a follower of Jesus.” The word “Christian” can carry baggage. People hear it and make guesses right away. Gerri is not hiding her faith. She is trying to make her loyalty clear.

She says it like this: “I want people to hear Jesus before they hear my politics,” (12:30–13:10).

They also remember the earliest Christians. They repented and believed. They loved enemies. They shared bread. They refused to say, “Caesar is lord.” The cross, not the sword, showed who they belonged to. That is the center Gerri wants people to meet first: Jesus in action, not a label that can mean many different things today.

Women in Ministry: Let Daughters Speak

Gerri talks about how her tradition got here. The Episcopal Church did not ordain women as priests until 1974. It was a slow change, with prayer and debate. She also points out something important: even though the Bible was written in a world led by men, it still shows strong and important women from start to finish.

Then she tells a real church moment. After a sermon on women in ministry, a retired military man stopped her at the door. He said, “My wife bought The Making of Biblical Womanhood by Beth Allison Barr,” and then added, “I’m almost through it and I have one thing to say, ‘we’d all be a hell of a lot better off if we just let women run things’.”

Craig brings it back to the gospel story: women were the first to proclaim the resurrection.

Craig says, “If it’s good enough for Jesus, I don’t know why we’re even talking about this anymore—why this is a debate.” (08:28–08:34)

The point is not to win an argument. The point is to honor the whole story and the good fruit it produces in real churches: voices used, gifts shared, neighbors served.

Christian Nationalism: Check the Fruit

Gerri also pushes back on a loud kind of “Christian” that looks like a rally. Crosses on flags. Enemies to crush. Cheers for violence. Gerri rejects it because the fruit does not look like Jesus. She says the people harmed most by this mix often include immigrants, the poor, and political opponents. If it harms them, it matters to Jesus, so it should matter to the church.

She makes a clear line: being thankful for your country is fine, but loyalty is different. Loyalty belongs to Jesus. When national identity becomes the center, the poor are ignored and enemies are hated. The Sermon on the Mount points another way.

Gerri says, “Jesus does not love America more than he loves anyone else. This is about following him,” (13:59–14:20).

Craig shares his own practice here. He reads 1 Samuel 8 and hears a warning about asking for a king. For Craig, not voting is one way to keep his loyalty clear. He does not demand others do the same. He is explaining a strict posture: No King but Christ.

A Liturgical Lens, Not a Test

Christ the King Sunday matters here. In Gerri’s Episcopal tradition, set readings and prayers shape worship. The Sunday before Advent announces one theme: Christ is King. Not the president. Not a party. Not “us.” Gerri is preparing to preach this, not as a political jab, but as a gentle reminder of who Christians are.

Not every church uses that calendar, and that is okay. The point is not copying a schedule. The point is remembering who holds our loyalty. In Gerri’s parish, the message is simple: be thankful for your place, and be loyal to Jesus.

Gerri says it clearly: “We do not bow to a government. We belong to Christ,” (39:56–40:20).

And even if you are not in a liturgical church, the idea still works. Any week can be a reset. Any table can become a place where the Kingdom shows up through bread, prayer, and love for neighbors.

The Big Story

Again and again, Craig and Gerri step back from “one verse fights” and tell the whole Bible story, from start to finish.

• Creation: God makes a good world and calls people very good.

• Israel (in the Bible, not a modern nation-state): God sets apart a family to bless neighbors, not crush them.

• Jesus: the clearest picture of God, washing feet, healing an enemy’s son, telling the truth even when it costs him.

• The church: small tables, open homes, shared bread.

• New creation: a future where tears are dried and weapons become tools for growing food.

When you read that story with Jesus in the center, the path gets clearer: love God, love your neighbor, welcome the stranger, bless people who hurt you, tell the truth, and keep your promises. Craig and Gerri also make it practical, like bringing a casserole to a widow, giving a ride to someone whose car broke down, staying calm online, or saying sorry face to face.

This kind of life does not feed the rage machine. It will not go viral. But that is the point. The Kingdom does not grow by outrage. It grows by presence, kept promises, and steady love that might look boring on camera, but looks holy in real life.

Gerri sums it up: “It is the whole arc. Love God. Love people. Take care of each other,” (22:11–23:15).

Nations and Nation-States

They also slow down to talk about words. In Scripture, “nations” often means “peoples.” It does not match today’s nation-states in a simple way. When we mix those up, people grab ancient commands and try to use them for modern borders and parties. Gerri calls for a slower reading: honor the text, learn the context, and keep Jesus at the center when you make public choices.

This helps keep Christians from treating one country as “God’s plan” and helps them treat strangers with the same mercy they want for themselves. It also keeps the church from turning into an enemy-making machine.

Tradition That Points Beyond Itself

Gerri respects her tradition: robes, music, and the lectionary. But she says these things are tools. They are not the treasure. Traditions do not define God. They should point to God and keep Jesus in the center.

Gerri says, “I honor my tradition, but it points me to God. It is not God,” (22:11–22:35).

She also likes the lectionary because it makes preachers deal with passages they did not pick. It helps a church avoid only talking about favorite topics, and it invites the whole story of Scripture to shape the year.

Borders, ICE, and Neighbor Love

They also touch immigration and the border. They agree that naming harm matters. People made in God’s image can get reduced to numbers and headlines. Gerri asks churches to speak plainly about dignity and to act locally: support a family, learn a name, offer help without strings, and resist words or policies that treat people like problems.

That steady neighbor love is how a parish shows loyalty to Jesus in public. It is not a slogan. It is a way of life.

Highlights and Takeaways

• A quick hello at a farmers market became a Kingdom conversation.

• Deacons help churches face outward and serve.

• Let daughters speak. The Body needs every gift.

• Christian nationalism is not the gospel. Check the fruit.

• Read the whole arc of the bible. Love God. Love neighbor. Practice mercy.

• Nations ≠ nation‑states; keep Jesus at the center of public choices.

• Faithfulness looks local: tables, casseroles, rides, and kept promises.

Listen, Reflect & Act

🎧 Listen. Ask Jesus to reset your loyalty to Him while the episode plays.
💬 Reflect. Where have you let the flag first pushed the cross to the side?

🦻Revisit. Matthew 5–7; Romans 12 (before Romans 13); Psalm 146; Revelation 5.
📖 Read: Read Gerri’s Sermon
🤝 Act. Serve someone this week with no strings. Pray for an enemy by name. Invite a neighbor to your table.

Episode Timestamps:

(00:00) Farmers market hello: How they met

• Peaches, name tags, a quick hello in Memphis; Gerri recognizes Craig.

• “Christian anarchism” comes up; they agree to talk more on the show.

• Sets the tone: ordinary place, Jesus‑centered conversation.

(02:00) Memphis roots & call to serve: Gerri’s context

• Collierville area; normal 9–5 job + local church service.

• Deacon = helper who turns the church outward (service > stage).

• Picture: visits, check‑ins, prayer, connecting needs to help.

• Carry the world’s pain into the church’s prayers (and back).

• Examples: rides, groceries, hallway prayers, “we didn’t forget you.”

(05:49) Scripture & strong women: Big story, not proof texts

• Bible written in a hard time for women, yet full of faithful daughters.

• Names matter: Mary Magdalene, Priscilla, Phoebe, Junia.

• Read the whole story, not one line pulled out.

(06:50) A changed mind: Book + sermon

• Retired soldier reads The Making of Biblical Womanhood (Beth Allison Barr).

• Tells Gerri: “We’d be better off if we let women run things.” (06:50–07:30)

• Book + sermon + fruit = “You’re right; let women preach/lead.”

(08:10) Easter’s first witnesses: Why this matters

• Women share the first news: “He is risen.”

• Craig asks: If that’s true, why is the pulpit still a debate?

• Pattern: trust the witnesses Jesus trusted. (Matt 28; John 20)

(12:30) “Follower of Jesus:”  Language that lowers walls

• Gerri starts with “I follow Jesus,” not the heavier label.

• Goal: meet a Person, not a brand or party.

• Marks of Jesus’ people: kind speech, open hands, kept promises.

(13:59) Loyalty & the Sermon on the Mount: Allegiance check

• Be thankful for your country; keep loyalty with Jesus.

• Beatitudes as public ethic: mercy, peacemaking, truth.

• Refuse rage-bait; love enemies. (Matthew 5–7)

(14:29) Taking Scripture seriously: How to read

• Don’t cherry‑pick; read in context with Jesus at the center.

• Look for fruit: love, joy, peace… not cruelty.

• Let hard texts teach us to serve, not to win.

(18:45) Christ the King (her church calendar): A yearly reset

• Episcopal/Anglican day before Advent; not every church observes it.

• Simple confession: Jesus is King; parties and leaders are not.

• Family practice: pray the Lord’s Prayer; ask, “Who can we serve?”

(22:11) The big story: Creation to new creation

• Creation → Israel → Jesus → Church → New Creation.

• Clear path: love God, love neighbor; keep your word; tell the truth.

• Ordinary acts: casseroles, rides, apologies, quiet hospital visits.

(24:31) Nations vs. countries: Words matter

• In Scripture, “nations” = “peoples,” not modern borders.

• Mixing terms warps reading and fuels bad politics.

• Keep Jesus at the center when making public choices.

(38:47) No new kings: Craig’s practice

• 1 Samuel 8: warning about asking for a king.

• Craig abstains from voting to keep his loyalty clear.

• Not a rule for all; an invitation to examine allegiance.

(39:56) Sermon preview: How Gerri will name it

• Parish message: grateful for place; loyal to Jesus.

• “We don’t bow to a government; we belong to Christ.” (39:56–40:20)

• Tone: gentle, pastoral, invitational.

• Copy of Gerri’s Sermon

(46:56) Borders, ICE, neighbor love: Dignity in action

• People are not headlines; learn names and needs.

• Local steps: diapers, bus passes, meals, rides, waiting‑room care.

• Speak carefully; resist words/policies that harm image‑bearers.

(48:00) Stay in touch: What’s next

• Reach Gerri through the show for dates and updates.

• More preaching ahead; keep the conversation open.

• Practice No King but Christ in small, steady ways.

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150. Does the Church Look like Jesus? A Look at the Gospel from the Outside with Tasha Heath

How do non-Christians see us? Do they see people shaped by Jesus, or people shaped by the political system? When church life copies a political team, people don’t see a Savior. When the church mirrors the political system, the gospel goes quiet.

This episode is a gut check about witness. Are we so wrapped up in politics that we’re keeping people from meeting Jesus? Craig and our guest look at how Christians come across to non-Christians, and why simple, everyday kindness would change so much.

Meet our Guest

Tasha Heath may not call herself a Christian, but her life says, “No King but Christ”. Being from the South, and the right side of the political spectrum, she has stood next to Christians for years. She has watched the Sunday words and the Monday actions. What stands out to her is simple: kindness opens doors, meanness slams them. 

Like many of us she believed more good people in politics would lead to a better world. She found herself swept up in activism, working inside party politics, and eventually landing in libertarian circles she thought would be an arena for real change. Instead she saw the corruption of politics was undeniable.

Today she serves neighbors in Las Vegas, helps with Food Not Bombs on Sundays, and keeps showing up for people the system leaves behind. From her view, showing up beats arguing.

Here’s why that matters for people outside the church: if what we say on Sunday doesn’t match what we do on Monday, they won’t hear anything else we say.

What outsiders actually see

When church life copies a political team – control, shaming, point-scoring – outsiders don’t see a Savior; they see a side to avoid. Tasha has watched people preach love while backing habits and policies that hurt their neighbors. From the outside, basic kindness would change a lot…fast.

Let’s slow down and make this concrete: kindness looks like learning a name, sharing a table, giving time, and keeping your word when no one is watching. 

It’s about being Christ-like. Jesus is not a mascot for our camp. He is Lord.

Politics can swallow your faith 

Before we talk policies, we have to talk formation. The political system doesn’t just want your vote, it wants your every day. Craig admits he once fused faith with politics. The line he uses is sharp because it’s true: “cult to statism” (01:36). Politics is not only about votes. It is about attention.

The machine wants your scroll, your emotions, your energy. Tasha’s story adds weight. She poured time into party work. She believed change was coming. Then she hit a wall – insider games, pressure, and priorities that didn’t match real people’s needs. That wake-up hurt, but it cleared the path to love actual neighbors again. If outrage is our daily diet, it will shape our souls.

“Everyday anarchy” (don’t let the word scare you)

The word anarchy sounds wild, but Craig is pointing at something ordinary. Think about your day: you help a neighbor jump a car, you take turns at a four-way stop, you swap tools on Saturday. No one is forcing you. That’s cooperation. 

“98% of our lives we live as anarchists… it’s that other 2% where the state gets involved and screws everything up.” — Craig (24:50)

This matters because the way of Jesus is consent and care, not compulsion.

Prisons, “crimes,” and making money off pain

If you want to know what a society values, watch who it cages and why. Tasha points to prisons because they reveal the gap between our words and our ways. She calls what she’s seen “absolute slavery,” people locked up for victimless “crimes” and working for pennies while others profit. Craig offers a crucial step if we want fewer people behind bars for marijana in particular: don’t just legalize; decriminalize.

“It is absolute slavery… and we still have people in jail for what the state is making billions off of.” —Tasha (25:40)

These are not talking points. These are image-bearers. If Jesus is Lord, then people are not “inputs.” They are not “cases.” They are worth more than someone’s quarterly bottom line.

Jesus shows us what God is like

Let’s zoom out. Jesus is the clear picture of the Father. If our reading of Scripture gives us permission to crush enemies and excuse cruelty, we’re reading it like empire, not like Christ. Jesus corrects bad theology…then and now.

So our question becomes simple: do we look like Jesus when we disagree?

Flags and loyalty

Symbols teach us, even when no one talks. When a church flies a national flag in the sanctuary, it sends a message about who is in charge. Craig is blunt about how that lands on him: 

“I’m not attending that. I know where their allegiance is. It’s not to Jesus.”  — Craig (35:26)

He’s seeing more fruit in one-on-one talks than in big stage fights. That mirrors the early church, homes, tables, love.

Vegas reality check

Big ideas are easy. Heat is not. Las Vegas hits 115°. Tunnels flood. People sleep outside while government programs fail. This is why Tasha doesn’t wait on the next bill to pass. She brings water, socks, shade, and time.

You can argue online for hours, but a cold bottle of water takes ten seconds and tells the truth about what you believe.

Craig adds a hard story: a pastor arrested for letting people sleep at the church. When mercy clashes with policy, you find out what we really value.

What actually draws people

If pressure could save people, we’d have saved the world by now. What opens hearts is presence—showing up, week after week, with steady kindness. That’s how trust grows.

“Consistency and consent—the two keys.” —Tasha (46:05)

Consistency means you keep your word. Consent means you don’t force people. That’s not just good manners. That sounds like Jesus.

A Simple Path Back

1. Slow down: read Matthew 5–7 out loud this week.

2. Make a list: three neighbors or co-workers you can serve.

3. Bring something small: water, socks, a meal, your time.

4. Use names: ask a story question and listen to the end.

5. Repent quickly: if you post in anger, own it. Make it right.

6. Keep it going: small steps, every week. This is how love grows.

🎧 Listen & Reflect

• 🎧 Hear: Listen to the episode to on how outsiders see Christians 

• 💬 Ask: Where am I leaning on political power instead of Kingdom love?

• 📖 Read: Matthew 5–7 (enemy-love, quiet generosity, integrity)

• 🤝 Practice: Bring supplies to a local encampment this week. Learn names. Go back next week.
  
  

Episode Timestamps:

(00:00) How people see Christians

• Jesus or the political system?

• If church feels like government, people miss Christ

(01:36) “Cult to statism”

• We’ve all gotten wrapped up in politics

• Resetting loyalty: No King but Christ

(06:49) Party work, seeing ballot-stuffing, and heartbreak

• Helping at local meetings

• “I thought we could change things”… then reality hit

(10:56) Teens, social media, and constant anger

• A 14-year-old who thinks about politics all the time

• Parents’ regret for pulling kids into it

(23:47) Everyday anarchy, 98% cooperation

• Most life is neighbors getting along

• Trouble starts when the political system steps in

(24:50) Prisons, pennies, and decriminalization

• Victimless “crimes” and cheap prison labor

• Don’t just legalize, decriminalize

(29:22) Is organized religion about control, or real love?

• Pressure and image vs. freedom and care

• Consent and hospitality beat coercion

(31:28) Jesus shows us what God is like

• He corrects bad ideas about God

• Read Scripture through Jesus, not politics

(32:43) Homelessness in Las Vegas: show up in person

• Tunnels, floods, and 115° heat

• Community care > waiting on programs

(34:10) Pastor arrested for letting people sleep at church

• Mercy vs. policy

• When rules fight compassion

(35:26) Flags in church and where loyalty points

• “I know where their loyalty is, it’s not to Jesus”

• One-on-one talks beat big battles

(36:31) “Food Not Bombs” Sundays

• Feeding people, not building up institutions

• Small, local, hands-on help

(40:05) Craig’s shift: flag vs. cross

• Leaving team red/blue for the Kingdom

• Putting Jesus first again

(46:05) “Consistency and consent:” what draws people

• Lead by example, not pressure

• Love people in ways they can feel

(47:58) Wrap & invitation

• Practice presence this week

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Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

149. Is Your Christianity Just Patriotism? Learning to Love Beyond the Flag with Misty Hubbard

There’s a version of Christianity that never really meets Jesus.
It memorizes the pledge, knows all the right political buzzwords, and can quote more politicians than church fathers. It says “Christ is King” on Sunday and “vote harder” on Monday, as if Caesar just needs a better campaign manager.

That was the air Craig and Misty both breathed for years.

They organized rallies, cheered on “good candidates,” defended the Constitution like it had been handed down on Sinai. It felt righteous. It felt Christian. It felt like fighting the good fight, until Jesus started messing with their loyalties.

This episode is the story of waking up from that spell.

Not into apathy or cynicism, but into something weirder and older: a Kingdom where the Sermon on the Mount is more binding than the Bill of Rights, and where the question isn’t “How do we save America?” but “How do we love our enemies like Christ?”

When the Flag Becomes Your Faith

Misty didn’t stumble into politics by accident. She’s a wife, mom, grandma, and restaurant manager in Arkansas, the kind of person who knows everyone at the grocery store and cares deeply about her town. For years, that care took the shape of activism: gun-rights events, local organizing, being “all in” for Team Red.

Craig remembers meeting her back then, at a Chris Ann Hall convention in Clarksville. Both of them were learning about the Constitution, the Founders, the history they never got in school. It was exciting. It felt like discovering hidden truth. And over time, that civics education started to feel a lot like discipleship.

The problem? The more energy went into “saving the country,” the less energy was left for the actual living out of the things Jesus says about enemies, violence, and power. It’s not that patriotism and faith can’t coexist, but if you’re honest, one usually ends up calling the shots.

The Class That Broke the Spell

The turning point for Misty wasn’t a Bible study. It was a civics class.

She signed up as a die-hard constitutional conservative ready to nod along. Instead, the teacher, friend of the project, Mike Gaddy, started pulling at threads: the myths about the founding, the sanitized hero stories, the idea that United States was uniquely holy.

Misty left that first session furious. She went home with a notebook full of quotes, determined to disprove him. She cracked open books, dug into history, chased footnotes… and found out the uncomfortable thing: he wasn’t lying. The founding was messier than the church bumper stickers made it sound.

One question stuck in her ribs: “When have you ever voted yourself more free?”

She thought about politicians she’d worked for who sold out the second they got in office. She thought about all the cheering for “freedom” while bombs fell on people who’d never heard of her. Slowly, painfully, she realized her “Christian” activism had quietly become devotion to the state.

When Compassion Outgrows Your Patriotism

Craig went through his own version of that. Looking back at his old voting record, neoconservative almost every time, he feels a weight. Not because voting is the worst sin ever, but because those choices empowered real people to wage real wars on real families. Once Jesus taught him to see beyond the labels, he couldn’t shrug it off as “just politics” anymore.

That’s the strange side effect of taking “No King but Christ” seriously: your compassion gets bigger than your borders. Suddenly you can’t hear about drone strikes, refugee camps, or kids in cages without thinking, Those are my neighbors too.

Misty admits she used to be the one cheering for the war, as long as the “bad guys” were far away. Now she sees faces instead of flags. The same Jesus who told her to love her literal neighbor is also Lord over the moms and dads in countries she’ll never visit. Once that sinks in, a certain kind of patriotic chest-thumping starts to feel… off.

Rage-Posting in Jesus’ Name

Then there’s the internet.

If you’ve spent any time on Facebook, you’ve met this guy: profile full of Bible verses and worship songs… and also full of posts calling people “demon-crats,” fantasizing about political dynasties, and mocking “woke queer trash” or whatever today’s latest slur is.

Misty watches one of these men in her feed whiplash between “I love Jesus so much” and “if you don’t like it, delete me, you idiots.” She finally comments, not to dunk on him, but to say: “You’re not just pushing people away from your politics. You’re pushing them away from Christianity.”

And that’s the heartbreak. People like her coworker, who told Misty, “I just wish all Christians were like you,” aren’t rejecting the real Jesus. They’re rejecting a Jesus-shaped mask worn over cruelty, contempt, and tribal rage.

Craig points out the obvious but rarely-said thing: if someone only knows Christians like that, of course they want nothing to do with our faith. Why would they? The fruit is rotten.

Taking It Offline

One of the most practical parts of this conversation is embarrassingly simple: take it offline.

If you’re going to challenge someone you know, about their politics, their rhetoric, their discipleship, do it face to face if you can.

Tone is different when you’re sitting across from a human you share a town and a table with. You can see their expression, hear their hesitation, notice when they’re actually trying to be loving but clumsy. On Facebook, all you see is words and your own projection of malice.

Misty and Craig have both seen it over and over: online, people are ready to torch each other. In person, they’re softer, more open, more aware that the other person has a story too. If “No King but Christ” is going to mean anything in our politics, it’ll show up in those small, awkward, holy in-person conversations.

Little Kingdom Cells in Arkansas

Out of all this wrestling, Misty has quietly started something small in Russellville, a little circle of younger folks trying to figure out what it means to follow Jesus instead of party platforms. Just a group of people who gather to read Scripture, wrestle with current events, and ask, “Would Jesus really be okay with this?”

They practice disagreeing without dehumanizing. They experiment with actually blessing enemies instead of owning them.

It doesn’t look like much. But neither did twelve confused disciples in Galilee.

Kingdom seeds are being scattered.

Listen & Reflect

• Listen: Pay close attention when Misty talks about the class that made her angry. What would you have done with that information?

• Ask: Where has your “Christian” identity quietly fused with your national or political identity?

• Confess: Is there anyone you’ve treated like trash in Jesus’ name that you need to repent to?

• Practice: Pick one person you strongly disagree with and invite them to coffee. Ask more questions than you make statements.

🤝Connect with MISTY hubbard:

• Facebook

Episode Timestamps:

(00:00) From statism to “No King but Jesus”

• Craig welcomes Misty and sets the theme: deeper faith, deeper compassion.

(00:05) Meet Misty: Arkansas, restaurant, and kindness over hate

• Misty introduces herself as an Arkansas restaurant manager, wife, mom, and grandma.

• She jokes about “Go Hogs” and the pain of that as a sports fan.

• She explains that her goal is to spread the message through kindness, not hate.

• Craig riffs on how Facebook trains people to act the opposite of Jesus online.

(01:22) The Chris Ann Hall rally and early constitutional days

• Craig and Misty remember meeting at a “Second Amendment” rally in Clarksville.

• They were both learning new things about the founding and the Constitution.

• Craig notes that the teacher helped him understand civics but stayed deeply statist.

• Misty mentions organizing that event as part of a local gun group and later politicians.

(12:29) “Good candidates” and the lost cause of electoral politics

• Craig and Misty talk about candidates who stop caring once they’re in office.

• Misty calls trying to get “good people” elected a lost cause.

• Craig pushes back on the idea that not voting means “doing nothing.”

• They argue that handing more authority to rulers isn’t the same as loving neighbors.

(14:24) Owning neocon votes and paid patriotism

• Craig admits he voted for neoconservatives almost every time and feels responsibility for what those politicians did.

• Misty describes “paid patriotism:” the millions spent to keep people flag-waving.

• They call out propaganda around the anthem, sports, and outrage over who stands or kneels.

• The conversation exposes how manipulated our sense of “duty” often is.

(15:31) “Vote harder” and the salsa break

• Misty notes how division is stirred up so we’ll “vote harder” for our team.

• Craig jokes about needing to hold your mouth just right in the voting booth.

• The Bad Roman salsa jingle kicks in, inviting listeners to support the show instead of the state.

• They come back from the break still poking at the myth that voting is the highest form of action.

(16:25) The class that wrecked Misty’s civic religion

• Craig walks Misty through how, after her event organizing, she met Mike Gaddy.

• Her first class with him made her furious as a constitutional conservative.

• She went home, took notes, and researched to try to prove him wrong.

• Instead she confirmed that the founding was ugly and we’d been sold a myth.

(18:00) When have you ever voted yourself more free?

• Misty recalls Gaddy’’s question about whether we’ve ever “voted ourselves more free.”

• They wrestle with the claim that soldiers are “over there fighting for our freedom.”

• Craig and Misty ask what our “freedom” was doing in Somalia while bombs fell on children.

• They connect this to a broader realization that empire and Kingdom serve different masters.

(39:29) None of us were born anarchists

• Craig notes that most anarchists he knows started out statist, just like him and Misty.

• They mention friends like Gaddy whose stories include serious regret.

• Misty laughs about her Facebook memories reminding her how statist she used to be.

• Craig jokes about “accidentally” losing access to his old account and starting fresh.

(47:40) Compassion that outgrows the flag

• Craig says that taking “No King but Jesus” seriously changed how he views war and cages at the border.

• Misty admits she used to cheer for war and “get the bad guys at all costs.”

• Now she sees people in other nations as God’s children too, not faceless enemies.

(52:16) A daily Jesus lesson at work

• Misty talks about a coworker who didn’t believe at all but loved their daily conversations.

• The coworker told her, “I just wish all Christians were like you.”

• Misty compares fake Christians to people wearing a Lakers jersey without playing for the Lakers.

• She says Jesus teaches and shows you to treat people with kindness, not contempt.

(55:48) “Founded on Christian values?” vs cursing your enemies

• Craig reads a meme fantasizing about a decades-long MAGA dynasty and calling opponents vile names.

• He asks how anyone can say “we’re founded on Christian values” while talking like that.

• Misty says this kind of faking pushes people like her unbelieving friend away.

(57:04) You’re pushing people away from Christianity (not just politics)

• Misty shares another post where the same guy curses “demon-crats” and tells him to delete him.

• Someone tells him he’s pushing people away from Christian conservative Republicans.

• Misty comments that he’s pushing people away from Christianity, period.

• They both highlight how the same feed includes sweet Jesus posts right after hateful rants.

(58:00) Take it offline: Face-to-face hits different

• Craig asks if Misty knows the guy personally and encourages her to talk with him in person.

• He notes that tone is completely different face to face than on Facebook.

• Misty says if you perceive a comment as snarky online, it’s snarky, whether it was meant that way or not.

• Seeing someone’s face makes it clear when they’re trying to be loving, not hateful.

(59:10) The solution: Be more like Jesus

• Craig directly asks Misty what the solution is to Christians entangled with the state.

• She says it plainly: be more like Jesus as best we can.

• Treat people the way Jesus would, especially those you disagree with.

• They agree that this is how you actually win people over and introduce them to Christ.

(1:04:12) Misty’s local Russellville group

• Misty describes a small, unofficial local group she’s started with younger folks.

• They share Jesus’ teachings and plug them into current events like the Charlie Kirk story.

• She pushes members to ask if they’re taking verses out of context or truly following Jesus.

(1:08:08) Stepping back from social media and cat memes

• Craig talks about unplugging from social media after some heavy events like the Kurt murder.

• He reminds folks that what they heard is a snapshot of his and Misty’s usual conversations.

• Misty jokes about posting cat memes with Craig’s face, and Craig embraces being the “crazy cat lady.”

Highlights & Takeaways

• The more seriously Craig and Misty take Jesus, the more compassion they feel for people their teams used to call enemies.

• “When have you ever voted yourself more free?” became a crucial question in leaving statism.

• Paid patriotism and propaganda keep people outraged, divided, and committed to “voting harder.”

• Social media rants about “demon rats” and “woke” enemies push people away from Christianity, not toward it.

• Face-to-face conversations reveal tone and care in ways Facebook never can.

• Ordinary kindness at work—a daily Jesus lesson—can open hearts more than any argument.

• Local, informal groups like Misty’s in Russellville help people work out what “Christ is King” really means in practice.

• 100% of donations beyond production costs go to Memphis-area charities, keeping the project rooted in real-world love of neighbor.

Calls to Action

If this episode helped disentangle your faith from the state and grow your compassion, share it with someone still stuck in “vote harder” mode.

If you want to help keep the message of No King but Christ in people’s feeds, visit Spotfund and search “No King but Christ.” Even five or ten bucks a month helps keep the show going and supports local Memphis charities beyond production costs.

If you’re near Russellville, Arkansas and want to dive into these conversations in person, find Misty Hubbard via the Bad Roman Facebook page and ask about her group.

Love y’all.

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Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

148. What Does the Bible Say About Immigration? Jesus and the Freedom to Move with Chris Polk

Are we looking at immigration through the eyes of Christ—or through the eyes of Caesar? When the news shouts “invasion,” it’s easy to beg the state to “do something.” But what happens when “doing something” looks like masked men, rifles, broken windows, and traumatized children?

Chris Polk joins Craig to make an audacious claim: the enforcement of political borders and restrictions on free movement violate a God-given right—and it’s the worst kind of tyranny because it traps image-bearers in cages both visible and invisible. Along the way, they compare red vs. blue “law and order,” name our cop-aganda, revisit the Good Samaritan, and ask how a so-called “Christian nation” can justify treating neighbors like enemies. No King but Christ.

“No King but Christ” in the Age of ICE

Chris connects the celebration of militarized “safety” in American cities with our appetite for state solutions at the border. We tend to excuse violence if our team authorizes it—and then act shocked when that same power is used against people we like. “Don’t give Republicans power you wouldn’t give Democrats, and don’t give Democrats power you wouldn’t give Republicans,” he says. The target always changes; the machine does not.

“You had a rabid dog in a cage. All that had to happen was the wrong guy open the door.” — Chris

Borders: To Keep Them Out or Keep You In?

From years of trucking across the U.S. and Canada, Chris describes how crossing an imaginary line turned ordinary people into presumed criminals. Over time, he became convinced border theater isn’t mainly about keeping “them” out—it’s about keeping you (and your tax dollars) in. When escape requires permission papers and guns at gates, you’re not free—you’re managed.

A Pocket Translator, a Broken Beetle, and Simple Neighbor Love

When a Cuban couple’s VW broke down on a cross-country drive, Chris used a translate app, a U-Haul trailer, a friend’s shop, and $50 to get them back on the road. No forms. No status checks. Just two humans helping two humans—exactly the sort of “Good Samaritan” moment Jesus insists is the point (Luke 10).

“Purging statism made it simple: here are two image-bearers who need help—so help them.” — Chris

Jesus Walks Through Samaria, Not Around It

John 4 says Jesus “had to” go through Samaria. That line is a rebuke to our border instincts. The scandal isn’t just that a Samaritan can be “good,” it’s that the people we’ve othered are the very neighbors we are commanded to love. A “Christian nation” that cages travelers for paperwork violations should probably stop calling itself Christian—or start acting like Jesus.

“Worst of All Tyranny”: Why Restricting Movement Tops the List

Free speech, self-defense, property, enterprise—when local laws get oppressive, you can often leave. But if the state blocks your exit with walls and rifles, every other right becomes conditional. That’s why Chris calls border enforcement “the worst tyranny”: it converts neighbors into suspects and converts freedom into a permission slip.

“Freedom is a choice. The minute you start asking for permission, you’re not free.” — Chris

Cop-aganda, Qualified Immunity, and Our Appetite for Violence

From prestige police dramas to viral chases, we’ve been catechized to cheer when “the good guys” break the rules. That appetite dulls us to real-world flashbangs in the wrong crib and windows shattered over paperwork. Remove the masks and rifles, Chris argues, and most ‘immigration enforcement’ looks like what it is: bureaucratic punishment of the poor.

Would Jesus “Follow the Law”?

When Christians insist Jesus would comply with immigration law, Chris counters with the Gospels: Jesus repeatedly defied bad laws and religious power structures, and His crucifixion is the ultimate divine “No” to state violence. If Mary and Joseph fled Herod today, many of us would demand their papers.

Blowback Is Inevitable

Trauma begets retaliation. Raid families today; reap instability tomorrow. Ron Paul called it “blowback.” Jesus called it sowing and reaping. The Kingdom calls us to another harvest.

Listen & Reflect

🎧 Listen: What stories or Scriptures challenged your default settings on borders?
💬 Reflect: Where have you trusted state power to do what only sacrificial love can do?
📖 Read: John 4 (Jesus and Samaria) and Luke 10 (the Good Samaritan).
🤝 Practice: This week, meet a neighbor across a language or legal line and choose to serve.

Highlights & Takeaways

• A “Christian nation” cannot justify caging image-bearers over paperwork and still call it Christian.

• Border enforcement that restricts movement is uniquely tyrannical because it prevents escape from lesser tyrannies.

• Both parties feed the same machine; swapping mascots doesn’t sanctify state violence.

• Personal stories beat political scripts: neighbor love looks like towing a car, not checking a visa.

• Jesus walks through Samaria; He doesn’t enforce our fences.

• Cop-aganda forms our desires; qualified immunity shields abuses—bad discipleship all around.

• “Would Jesus follow the law?” Not when the law crushes the least of these.

• Expect blowback: raids today sow resentment and future violence.

• Freedom isn’t a permit; it’s a posture. Asking permission is the first surrender.

• No King but Christ means our loyalty to the Kingdom trumps allegiance to the flag.

🤝Connect with Chris Polk:

• Blue Ribbon Logistics Website

• Blue Ribbon's YouTube, Facebook, TikTok

• Previous Bad Roman Episodes with Chris

  • Lessons from the Trucking Industry with Chris Polk (Episode #77)

  • Home School: 2021 Year-End Round Table (Episode #47)

  • Your Rights with Chris Polk & Jacob Daniel (Episode #38)

  • God's Country or Jesus’s Kingdom? Navigating the Nexus of Nationalism and Faith in America (Episode #99)

Episode Timestamps:

(00:10) Framing the Question: Christ vs. Caesar

• Craig frames the episode: immigration through Christ’s lens vs. the state’s lens.

• Guest intro: trucker, entrepreneur, “cat lady and salsa maker,” returning friend Chris Polk.

• The Memphis “safety” surge: why we cheer militarized policing when it’s our team.

(04:00) The Machine Called “Do Something”

• “Do something!”, the spell of monopoly violence.

• ICE didn’t start yesterday; every administration fed the dog.

• Why team-politics blinds us to the machine itself.

(10:30) Fear Cycles & Border Theater

• “Invasion” talk and television fear cycles.

• Chris’ border-crossing years: from license checks to X-rays and suspicion.

• Treating travelers like criminals for an imaginary line.

(18:00) Borders as Cages (Keeping You In)

• Borders as cages: not to keep them out, but to keep you (and your taxes) in.

• COVID era proof: the state’s first instinct is control, not care.

(23:00) The Cuban VW & Neighbor Love

• The Cuban VW story: translate app, trailer, a friend’s shop, and neighbor love.

• Tech as a bridge; statism as a barrier.

(27:00) Jesus Through Samaria

• Jesus had to go through Samaria (John 4).

• Reframing “Good Samaritan” as “Good Immigrant” to expose our prejudice.

(35:00) The Worst Tyranny: Blocking Movement

• Why restricting movement is “the worst tyranny.”

• You can flee bad local laws—unless the state blocks the exit.

(44:00) When “Our Guys” Get Power

• From Jefferson to the Alien & Sedition Acts: power corrupts “our guys,” too.

• States, courts, and the myth that legality equals righteousness.

(50:00) Cop-aganda & Qualified Immunity

• Cop-aganda and qualified immunity: how entertainment disciples us to cheer abuse.

• There’s a better way: summons and due process instead of masks and rifles.

(57:00) Would Jesus “Follow the Law”?

• “Would Jesus follow the law?”why the Gospel answers “not when the law crushes the least.”

• A Time to Kill moment: now imagine the detained family is yours.

(1:02:00) Sowing Violence, Reaping Blowback

• Trauma and blowback: violence begets violence.

• Turning from fear toward faithful neighbor love.

 (1:08:00) Repentance, Friendship, & “No King but Christ”

•  How friendships changed our minds: growth, humility, and leaving team idolatry.

•  Closing plugs and “No King but Christ.”

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Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

Judas the OG Christian Nationalist: Why Imposters Are Worse Than Opponents with Domenic Scarcella

When you hear “Judas Iscariot,” what comes to mind? Most of us picture betrayal — the silver coins, the kiss in the garden. But what if Judas’s real mistake wasn’t greed, it was compromise? What if he wasn’t just a traitor, but the first disciple to decide that Jesus would be more effective with a little help from the government?

In this episode of The Bad Roman Podcast, Craig Hargis welcomes back Domenic Scarcella, author of Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen, to ask a provocative question:

 👉 Was Judas the original Christian nationalist?

The Respectable Disciple: Judas as the “Normie”

Domenic doesn’t see Judas as a cartoon villain. He sees him as the reasonable one, the disciple who wanted Jesus to tone it down a bit, to play nice with the powers that be.

“Judas is the guy who wanted Jesus to be more compatible with the government,” Domenic says. “He’s the first person to think the Kingdom would work better if it looked a little more like the empire.”

That’s what makes Judas so hauntingly familiar. He’s not the rebel in the shadows; he’s the insider trying to make Jesus palatable to power.

Imposter Faith: Antichrist vs. Contra Christ

Judas’s story isn’t just about betrayal; it’s about the distortion of discipleship. Domenic draws a line between being against Christ (contra) and trying to replace Him (anti).

“Anti doesn’t mean ‘against,’” he explains. “It means ‘imposter.’ That’s what makes Antichrist worse than Contra Christ — trying to change Jesus into something else.”

That’s the heart of Christian nationalism: turning Jesus from the Lamb who lays down His life into the lion who roars for our tribe. And it’s not new. It’s just Judas’s logic reborn, century after century.

The Politics of Coercion

Craig and Domenic agree — Jesus never used force to accomplish His mission. Not once. His Kingdom runs on persuasion, not power.

“There are zero examples in the Gospels of Jesus using coercion,” Domenic says. “But there are plenty of examples of Him confronting coercion — especially in institutions.”

That contrast cuts deep in an age when many still believe we can vote the Kingdom in.

You can’t legislate love your enemies.

You can’t bomb your neighbor and call it freedom.

You can’t baptize coercion and call it righteousness.

Constantine’s Shadow: From Cross to Crown

What Judas began in miniature, Constantine perfected in empire.
Once Christianity became the state religion, the incentives flipped.
It no longer cost you to follow Jesus — it paid.

“To be Christian used to mean giving up power,” Domenic notes. “After Constantine, it meant gaining it.”

That shift is what Domenic calls the inflection point of history — when Christendom traded cruciform faith for political privilege. And that’s the same trade Christians still make today every time we seek safety, status, or influence instead of obedience.

The Illness That Didn’t Kill the Body

If Judas represents the infection, the miracle is that the Body of Christ still lives. Seventeen hundred years of compromise haven’t destroyed the Church — because grace, not greatness, keeps it alive.

“Our imperfections aren’t deal breakers,” Domenic says. “They’re the reason the Gospel exists.”

The Church’s survival isn’t proof that it got politics right; it’s proof that Jesus still heals, still forgives, still chooses imperfect people to bear His name.

Faithfulness Over Familiarity

Judas’s betrayal wasn’t a rejection of Jesus — it was a rebranding of Him. He wanted a Jesus who would “fit,” who could climb the ladder and earn the world’s respect. Sound familiar?

It’s the same spirit that drives churches to bless flags, defend wars, and fear being called unpatriotic. But the Gospel doesn’t need a PR strategy. It needs a people willing to live as if Jesus meant what He said.

No King but Christ

Domenic sums it up with quiet conviction:

“Judas was the normal one. The faithful ones were the weirdos.”

That’s the paradox of the Kingdom. The weirdos — the ones who refuse to kneel to Caesar, who love enemies instead of destroying them — are the ones who look most like Jesus.

Maybe faithfulness has always looked like being a bad Roman.

Listen & Reflect

🎧 Listen to the full episode: Judas the OG Christian Nationalist: Imposter Faith vs. the Politics of the Lamb with Domenic Scarcella — available on all major podcast platforms.

💬 Question for reflection:
If Judas’s mistake was trying to make Jesus more “respectable,” where might we be doing the same today.

📖 Scriptures to Revisit:
Matthew 26 | Luke 22 | John 13 | Acts 1 | 1 John 2 | Philippians 2:5–8 | Matthew 6:24

🤝Connect with Domenic Scarcella:

• Book: Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen

• Audio Content: Sunday Buffet Podcast & The Friday Meditation Radio

• Substack: Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen

• Twitter (X) @GoodNeighBadCit

Highlights & Takeaways

• Judas wasn’t a rebel; he was reasonable, and that’s what made him dangerous.

• Antichrist means “imposter,” not “opponent.” Judas wanted to change Jesus, not reject Him.

• Jesus never used coercion, His power is persuasion through love.

• Constantine’s alliance with empire flipped Christianity’s social incentives.

• Seventeen centuries later, the Church still struggles with Judas’s temptation: respectability over faithfulness.

• The remnant remains, imperfect people living out “No King but Christ.”

• Grace keeps the Gospel alive even in a compromised Church.

• The call isn’t to fix empire, but to embody the Kingdom.

EPISODE TIMESTAMPS

(0:22) Judas: the OG Christian nationalist?

• Craig introduces returning guest Domenic Scarcella

  • Previous episode with Domenic: Christianity Unpacked in "Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen" with Domenic Scarcella

• Framing Judas as the “normie” disciple tempted by respectability

(1:05) “Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen”

• Recapping Domenic’s first appearance in 2023

• Why this conversation still matters

(1:58) What Domenic’s been building

• Substack essays, Sunday Buffet, and Friday Meditation Radio

• Expanding from book to movement

• Domenic’s Judas Article

(4:02) Five years of The Bad Roman

• Craig reflects on God’s provision and the journey so far

• Finding content in divine timing, not worry

(7:26) Judas as “the normal guy”

• Respectable, pragmatic, compromise-driven

• Why that’s more dangerous than open opposition

(11:42) “Judas 8:2” and the mercy of Jesus

• Jesus feeds and washes the feet of His betrayer

• What real mercy looks like in a world of self-interest

(13:55) Setting the Holy Week scene

• Jesus teaches in public, tensions rise in the temple

• How power fears love that won’t be controlled

(20:16) Modern parallels

• Lockdowns, fear, and Christians who “went along to get along”

• Choosing safety over truth and calling it obedience

(21:35) The deal that wasn’t

• Judas overplays his hand; the priests use him for their agenda

• When compromise becomes complicity

(26:05) Antichrist vs. Contra Christ

• Domenic’s key distinction: imposter faith vs. honest rejection

• Why trying to change Jesus is worse than denying Him

(30:10) Coercion and the Kingdom

• No Gospel precedent for force

• How Jesus subverts coercion with voluntary love

(34:03) Constantine’s inflection point

• From persecuted faith to state-approved religion

• When “Christian” became a brand of empire

(38:16) Three models of church–state fusion

• Hosios’s “Two Swords,” Ambrose’s “Overlap,” Eusebius’s “Co-Regency”

• Different roads to the same compromise

(47:50) The remnant remains

• Good neighbors, bad citizens, the politics of the Lamb

• The hope of faithfulness in small numbers

(53:25) Imperfect messengers, perfect Gospel

•  Grace, not purity, sustains the Church

•  How God uses flawed voices for truth

(56:42) Where to find Domenic

• Substack, Sunday Buffet, Meditation Radio

• Continuing the conversation

🔗 Join the Movement🔗

• Blog submissions: thebadroman.com/contribute-to-the-blog

• Connect with us on social: thebadroman.com/social-links

• Want to get more involved? Request to join the private discussion group on Facebook (Bad Romans Only!!)

• No King but Christ Network:nokingbutchristnetwork.com

💕 Support the Project 💕

If this conversation with Domenic on Judas as the OG Christian nationalist helped you refocus on Jesus, not party, not power, please consider supporting The Bad Roman Project.

Your gift keeps “No King but Christ” in the feed and pushes back against the impulse to baptize coercion. As always, 100% of donations above production costs go to local Memphis charities.

🌶️ SALSA THE LOVE 🌶️

Donations are cool, but salsa is spicy (or mild, Judas 👀). Every jar fuels episodes that challenge Christian entanglement and call us back to Jesus’ way.

Join the craze at badromansalsa.com and snack your way to more Kingdom conversations.

FREE ACTION: Share the Episode, Start a Conversation with a Fellow Christian

Know a friend who thinks “Christian nation” is the point? Send them this episode with Domenic Scarcella and spark a better conversation:

Are we following Jesus, or asking Him to bless our politics?

If Judas tried to make Jesus respectable to rulers, are we doing the same?

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146. Christianity without Compromise: Jesus Centered Life, Not Left or Right with Jake Doberenz

When Christians step into the political arena, do we realize how much compromise it takes to stay there?

It’s easy to think that casting a vote, joining a campaign, or posting about “God and country” is just doing our civic duty. But what happens when the cross gets buried under a flag and we call that faithfulness?

In this episode of The Bad Roman Podcast, Craig Hargis sits down with Jake Doberenz, host of Christianity Without Compromise and writer of the Smashing Idols Substack, to unpack what happens when believers give their loyalty to Caesar and call it discipleship. From a rigged high-school election to the moral chaos of modern war, this conversation asks a dangerous question:

👉 Can you follow Jesus without compromise and still play the political game?

The Illusion of Influence: Why Our Votes Don’t Redeem the System

Jake shares a funny but revealing story from high school: helping count ballots in a student election that didn’t add up. The “safe” candidate won, even though the “popular” one clearly had more votes.

It’s small potatoes compared to Washington, D.C., but the lesson hit deep – politics is messy because power always corrupts. Even good intentions get swallowed up by systems built on ambition, control, and fear.

The same thing happens every election season in America. Christians line up behind the lesser of two evils and call it righteousness, forgetting that evil (lesser or not) is still evil. As Craig puts it:

“We’re outsourcing our sin to politicians and calling it stewardship.”

We tell ourselves that our guy will make a difference, that our vote “matters.” But as history and Scripture both show, when human power is the goal, the Kingdom always gets compromised.

Israel’s King Problem: A Warning from 1 Samuel 8

When Israel demanded a king, God warned them exactly what would happen:

“He will take your sons for his army, your daughters for his servants, your fields for his gain. You will cry out because of your king, but the Lord will not answer you.” (1 Samuel 8)

They wanted to be “like the nations.” They wanted the comfort of a visible ruler, something tangible they could trust. But a king, any king, always costs something. And as Jake points out, the story of David proves it.

David began as a humble man after God’s heart, refusing to kill Saul, honoring God above self. But the moment he put on the crown, the corruption began. Politics twisted even the best of men.

Sound familiar? We see it every election cycle. The promises start holy, the slogans sound moral, but once power hits the bloodstream, compromise follows.

The lesson is timeless: You can’t have a king and still claim “No King but Christ.”

Psalm 146: A Better Political Manifesto

If the modern church needs a political platform, Psalm 146 should be it:

“Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save… Blessed are those whose help is the God of Jacob.”

Politicians die. Policies change. Empires fall. But the Kingdom of God is consistent: feeding the hungry, freeing prisoners, lifting up the oppressed, and frustrating the wicked.

The psalmist describes God’s Kingdom as everything the state isn’t: compassionate instead of coercive, restorative instead of retaliatory, faithful instead of fickle.

When Christians defend injustice in the name of national interest, when we justify violence because it’s “our side” doing it, we aren’t advancing the Kingdom…we’re betraying it.

Romans 12 Before Romans 13

Jake makes a crucial point: never read Romans 13 before Romans 12.

Romans 12 tells us to bless our enemies, to overcome evil with good, and to refuse revenge. Then comes Romans 13, the chapter everyone loves to quote to justify obedience to government.

But if your reading of Romans 13 gives Caesar permission to do what Jesus forbids you to do, you’ve missed the point. The passage isn’t a loophole for Christians to fund or bless violence, it’s a reminder that God can use even corrupt governments for His purposes. It’s descriptive, not prescriptive.

The call remains the same: love your enemies, feed your enemies, pray for those who persecute you.

That’s the real revolution.

Consistency: The Most Radical Witness

Craig and Jake both circle back to one word: consistency.

It’s what made Jesus so magnetic. He didn’t just preach love of enemy, He practiced it, even as they nailed Him to a cross.

Consistency is what gives the gospel credibility. When Christians say “love your neighbor” but vote for leaders who bomb them, the world notices. When we preach peace but cheer for war, seekers walk away.

Jake shared a story of a friend who left the faith after watching Christians justify the slaughter in Gaza. “If this is Christianity,” he said, “I want nothing to do with it.”

That’s the cost of inconsistency. Not just hypocrisy, but lost souls.

Repentance and Reorientation

Repentance isn’t a guilt trip. It’s a direction change. As the Bible Project puts it, repentance means to turn around.

If your politics have hardened your heart, turn around.
If you’ve placed hope in princes and policies, turn around.
If you’ve excused violence because your side did it, turn around.

Refocus on the Sermon on the Mount. Build your life, and your worldview, on that mountain, not Capitol Hill.

A Different Kind of Politics

Neither Craig nor Jake are anti-political, they’re anti-idolatry. They believe in a Kingdom politics rooted in the Beatitudes, not ballots.

As Jake said:

“Jesus has a politics. But it looks nothing like America, or Uganda, or anywhere else on earth.”

The Kingdom of God is a government without coercion, a rule where the King dies for His enemies instead of killing them. That’s the politics of the Lamb.

It’s time for the church to recover it.

No King but Christ

When we call Jesus “King,” it’s not a metaphor. It’s an allegiance statement. It means nobody else gets to be king, not presidents, not pastors, not parties.

Craig sums it up perfectly:

“My allegiance is to Jesus. Not a president, not a senator, not a mayor. Jesus Christ alone.”

If that sounds radical, good. The early church was called radical too. Polycarp, Origen, and Tertullian all refused to worship the emperor. They were accused of being bad Romans.

Maybe that’s what faithfulness still looks like today.

Listen & Reflect

🎧 Listen to the full episode: Christianity without Compromise: Jesus Centered Life, Not Left or Right with Jake Doberenz, available on all major podcast platforms.

💬 Question for reflection:
If Jesus is King, what does that mean for how you engage with politics, power, and national identity?

📖 Scriptures to Revisit:
1 Samuel 8 | Psalm 146 | Matthew 5–7 | Romans 12–13

🤝Connect with Jake Doberenz:

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Introducing guest Jake Doberins

• Host of Christianity Without Compromise and author of Smashing Idols SubStack

• Exploring Christian involvement in politics and its real-world impact

(1:00) From “Smashing Idols” to “Christianity Without Compromise”

• Jake explains the podcast’s name change for clarity and focus

• Connection between his Substack and podcast projects

(2:26) Standing firm on the words of Jesus

• Discussing the need for consistency in following Christ’s teachings

• Rejecting political debates and distractions

(4:07) Jake’s background and calling

• Biblical Studies and Theological Studies degrees

• From church ministry to media ministry and podcast production

(8:00) Early political experience

• Jake’s role as Republican Club president in high school

• First-hand exposure to campaigns and local politics

(15:22) Wrestling with faith and politics

• Questioning whether political life aligns with Christian convictions

• Recognizing the temptation to compromise for success

(19:52) The cost of Christian political involvement

• Exploring how “outsourcing sin to Caesar” harms others

• Challenging Christians to see the damage caused by state loyalty

(24:12) Consistency as Christian witness

• Why inconsistency weakens the gospel message

• The power of living out “No King but Christ”

(28:51) 1 Samuel 8 and Israel’s demand for a king

• God’s warning about taxation, conscription, and oppression

• Parallels between ancient Israel and modern Christian nationalism

(32:00) Reading Romans 13 through Romans 12

• Understanding submission to government through enemy-love

• The Sermon on the Mount as the Christian’s true political manifesto

(35:35) The corrupting nature of power

• How King David’s downfall reveals the danger of authority

• Politics as a distraction from devotion to Jesus

(40:17) Psalm 146 — trusting God, not princes

• Contrast between human rulers and God’s faithfulness

• Reminder that only God’s Kingdom endures

(45:39) The mission behind Christianity Without Compromise

• Refocusing believers on Jesus over modern idols

• Addressing politics, Christian nationalism, and misplaced loyalties

(50:28) Encouragement for Christian creators

• Craig calls for more podcasts, blogs, and projects centered on Jesus

Importance of sharing the message: No King but Christ

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Related Blog Post

145. Charlie Kirk and the Lamb of God: Can You Carry the Flag and the Cross at the Same Time?

After Charlie Kirk’s tragic death, a deeper conversation has surfaced about the growing entanglement of Christianity and politics.

This episode of The Bad Roman Podcast steps into that tension and explores what happens when the Church trades the cross for a campaign.

Our guest, Brian Drinkwine, is a pastor and church planter who has walked that road himself. He went from a passionate political believer to a follower of Christ learning to question the marriage between faith and power. His viral post about Charlie Kirk’s memorial service sparked a national conversation and revealed how uneasy many Christians feel about the blending of faith and political ideology.

The Malaise of Modern Christianity

There is a growing discomfort in the Church, a spiritual restlessness that Brian calls malaise. Many believers sense that something is wrong, even if they cannot explain it.

This episode gives language to that unease and helps people who feel out of place in modern Christianity find words for what they feel.

“You’re not crazy,” Brian says to those who feel out of step. “You saw this and thought, something’s not right. You chose to give your allegiance to Jesus alone. That should be celebrated, not condemned.”

That is the heartbeat of The Bad Roman: No King but Christ.

It is not a slogan but a return to the simplicity and power of early Christianity.

The Danger of Political Allegiance

One of the clearest insights from this conversation is that political parties often act like religions.

Each one has its own sacred texts, rituals, and values. For some, the Constitution becomes scripture. Voting becomes a sacrament. Party leaders become prophets.

When Christians give their ultimate loyalty to these political “religions,” they risk betraying the Kingdom of God.

“We cannot serve both God and Mammon,” Brian reminds us. “And sometimes, political power becomes the new Mammon.”

This is not theory. It is a call to honest reflection.
Have we allowed our politics to shape our faith more than the teachings of Jesus?

Reframing Faith and Politics

Throughout the episode, Brian and Craig invite listeners to rethink what it means to follow Jesus in a politically divided world.

1. Patriotism vs. Nationalism: It is good to appreciate your country. But when love of nation becomes ultimate loyalty, it becomes idolatry.

2. The Narrow Path: Following Jesus is not about finding middle ground. It is about choosing a completely different way. The Kingdom of God is not found on the right or the left. It is found on the narrow road of Christ.

3. Repentance as Revolution: The word metanoia means a complete change of mind. It is not about guilt but about turning back to Jesus as King.

4. The Power of Forgiveness: The difference between Erica Kirk’s forgiveness and the calls for revenge at the memorial shows what Kingdom love really looks like.

Practical Steps for Realignment

If your faith feels tangled up in politics, Brian offers a few ways to begin untangling it.

• Take a “politics fast.” Step away from political media and spend time in the Gospels instead.

• Simplify your faith. Start again with the basics, like the Sermon on the Mount.

• Check your allegiances. Ask yourself, “If loving others like Jesus meant losing my party loyalty, could I do it?”

• Speak prophetically. True patriotism tells the truth, even when it is uncomfortable.

What This Teaches Us About Faith and Politics

This conversation is a mirror for all of us who have ever mixed our love for Jesus with our loyalty to empire. It reminds us that our mission is not political victory but faithfulness to Christ.

In a world divided by tribalism, allegiance to Jesus is the most countercultural thing we can offer.

“On the other side of my political allegiance,” Brian says, “when I gave that up and fully gave myself to Jesus, it is just a better life.”

So where does your allegiance really lie?
Are you ready to walk away from the noise and return to the way of Jesus?

The Kingdom still calls.

No King but Christ.

🤝Connect with Brian Drinkwine:

• Email: brian@briandrinkwine.com

• Website: https://briandrinkwine.com/

• Linkedin

• X

• Facebook

• Instagram 

• Ministry at Breakthrough Church

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Discussing reactions to Charlie Kirk's death

• Brian Drinkwine joins to discuss varied reactions to Kirk's passing

• Read Brains post here

• Examining potential blurred lines due to nationalism

• Questioning if some churches have lost focus on "no king but Jesus"

(0:48) Brian Drinkwine's background

• Grew up in Nashville, Tennessee in independent fundamental Baptist tradition

• Transitioned to Southern Baptist church and found faith at youth camp

• Experience in youth ministry and church planting

(4:09) The viral post about Charlie Kirk

• Origin of Drinkwine's post addressing the tragedy

• Unexpected widespread response and impact

• Dealing with the flood of messages and notifications

(10:45) Addressing the church's response

• Preparing a message to bring the congregation together

• Importance of uniting around Jesus rather than political parties

• Transcribing and adapting the message for social media

(23:52) Reflections on the memorial service

• Conflicting emotions during Charlie Kirk's memorial

• Redeeming moments and problematic statements

• Struggle with nationalistic undertones in Christian spaces

(29:19) The danger of political allegiance

• Exploring the concept of allegiance in faith and politics

• Matthew Bates' book "Salvation by Allegiance Alone"

• Warning against getting sucked back into allegiance to empire

(35:32) Early church perspective on empire

• Examining how early Christians responded to empire

• Importance of studying church fathers like Tertullian

• Unpopularity of this view in mainstream churches

(41:34) The malaise in modern Christianity

• Growing sense of unease among followers of Jesus

• Need to return to Jesus as the solution

• Importance of simplifying faith and focusing on basic teachings

(54:46) Christian nationalism and its impact

• Difference between patriotism and nationalism

• Danger of giving full allegiance to political parties

• Need for a prophetic voice while appreciating one's country

(1:06:56) Tools for self-reflection

• Developing a breakdown of political parties and Jesus as rival religions

• Creating a 10-point checklist for assessing political engagement

• Importance of distinguishing between political identity and identity in Christ

(1:17:34) Conclusion and future discussions

• Potential follow-up episode on political parties and Jesus as religions

• Invitation for listeners to engage in dialogue

• Plans for online community discussions on these issues

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Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

144. Half the Image of God: Women, Scripture & the Church

Are we silencing half the Body of Christ?

For centuries, churches have taught that men lead while women serve quietly in the background. But what if this isn’t God’s design at all? What if the church has been hobbling along on one leg, because we’ve sidelined half the image of God?

This is the heart of our latest Bad Roman conversation with biblical teacher Matt Mouzakis, who joins Craig to revisit the creation story, Paul’s letters, and the witness of the early church. Together, they ask: Did Jesus and the apostles intend women to lead, teach, and shepherd alongside men? Spoiler: the resurrection was first preached by women, and that was no accident.

The Genesis Misread

We’ve often heard that Eve was created from Adam’s “rib,” a secondary helper. But the Hebrew word tsēlāʿ is better translated as side, not rib (Exodus 25:12). Eve was not a spare part—she was Adam’s other half.

Likewise, ʿēzer kenegdo (often rendered “helper suitable”) is the same word used for God as Israel’s strong ally (Psalm 121). Far from denoting subordination, the text paints Adam and Eve as co-priests in Eden, tasked with stewarding creation together.

Paul in Context: 1 Timothy 2

One of the most-cited passages against women in ministry is 1 Timothy 2. But the Greek words tell a different story:

• Epitrepo (commonly translated “permit”) is a situational allowance, not an eternal decree.

• Authentein (usually rendered “exercise authority”) means to usurp or domineer, not healthy spiritual leadership.

In context, Paul was addressing a crisis of false teaching in Ephesus (1 Timothy 1:3–7), not issuing a permanent ban. His real command? “Let the women learn.” In the first-century world, that was radical.

The Corinthian Puzzle

Another stumbling block is 1 Corinthians 14:34–35, where Paul seems to demand women be silent. But some manuscripts omit these verses entirely, while others move them around — suggesting they may have been a marginal scribal note later copied into the text.

And even if we keep them, they cannot override Paul’s instructions in 1 Corinthians 11, where he expects women to pray and prophesy in the gathered assembly.

What “Headship” Really Means

When Paul says “the husband is the head of the wife,” he uses the Greek word kephalē. In English, “head” often implies boss. But in Greek, kephalē more commonly means source or lifeline.

If we read kephalē as hierarchy, we run into theological problems—because Paul also says “the head of Christ is God” (1 Cor 11:3). That doesn’t make the Son less divine. Instead, it emphasizes relationship and origin.

In Ephesians 5, Paul doubles down: Christ is the “savior of the body,” not its tyrant. Husbands are called to love their wives as Christ loved the church—through self-sacrifice, not domination.

Women Who Led Anyway

The witness of scripture itself contradicts the idea of silenced women:

• Junia, “outstanding among the apostles” (Romans 16:7)

• Priscilla, who taught Apollos (Acts 18:26)

• Phoebe, deacon, patron, and first carrier of Romans (Romans 16:1–2)

• Deborah, prophet and judge (Judges 4–5)

• Huldah, prophet consulted by King Josiah (2 Kings 22)

The receipts are in the text—and in history.

Why This Matters (Kingdom over Empire)

If “No King but Christ” is more than a slogan, then His Kingdom must shape how we live and lead. Genesis 3’s “he will rule over you” was a diagnosis of the Fall, not God’s ideal. In Jesus, that curse is undone.

The church should be the first place where we refuse to sideline half the image of God.

3 Ways Churches Can Honor the Full Image of God

1. Re-examine the texts honestly:  Stop proof-texting. Read passages like 1 Timothy 2 and 1 Corinthians 14 in their cultural, linguistic, and historical context.

2. Make space for women’s voicesa: From preaching to leadership, invite women to bring their Spirit-given gifts to the community—just as the early church did.

3. Practice mutual submission: Ephesians 5:21 calls all believers to submit to one another. Build a culture of mutual service, not hierarchy.

Final Word

This isn’t about bending to culture, it’s about recovering God’s original design and Christ’s new creation.

So ask yourself: What might change in your church if women were seen not as assistants, but as co-laborers in Christ?

🤝Connect with Matt Mouzakis:

• Email: matt@expedition44.com

• Book: Principalities, Powers and Allegiances 

• Previous Episodes with Matt:

  • "What about Romans 13?"

  • From Eden to Empire: Deuteronomy 32 & Christ’s Nature with Matt Mouzakis (Part 1)

  • From Eden to Empire: First Peter's Insights (Part 2)

  • From Eden to Empire: Romans 13 Line by Line (Part 3)

  • The Beasts and the Lamb of Revelation: From Eden to Empire (Part 4)

  • Jesus as King: Rediscovering the True Translation of "Christ" with Duncan Palmer and Matt Mouzakis (EP 139)

• Expedition 44 podcast:

  • Website: expedition44.com

  • Co-hosted by Matt Mouzakis and Dr. Will Ryan

Episode Timestamps:

(1:35) Complementarian vs. Egalitarian

• Defining the two camps: different “roles” vs. shared authority

• The history of the term “roles” (introduced only in the 1970s)

• Why both sides appeal to scripture but often miss the context

(6:00) Craig’s Journey

• Growing up taught that women must be subordinate

• How years of study and the Bad Roman Project flipped his view

• The resurrection moment: women as the first to proclaim the gospel (John 20, Matthew 28)

(14:00) Genesis Re-Read: Not a Rib, but a Side

• The Hebrew tsēlāʿ (commonly translated “rib”) actually means “side” (Exodus 25:12)

• Adam and Eve as two halves, not hierarchy

• “Bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh” (Genesis 2:23)

(19:00) “Helper Suitable”: God as Ally

• The Hebrew phrase ʿēzer kenegdo (often rendered “helper suitable”) is used of God Himself (Psalm 121)

• Means “strong ally” or “partner alongside,” not assistant

• Adam and Eve depicted as priests in Eden (Genesis 2:15)

(24:00) Genesis 3 and the Fall

• “He will rule over you” as consequence of sin, not God’s design (Genesis 3:16)

• New Creation in Christ breaks this curse (Galatians 3:28)

(26:24) 1 Timothy 2 in Context

• False teachers in Ephesus (1 Timothy 1:3–7)

• “I do not permit” (epitrepo, Greek for “allow/permit”) is situational, not eternal command

• “I do not permit a woman to authentein (Greek verb, often translated ‘exercise authority’ but better understood as ‘domineer’ or ‘usurp’) a man”

• Paul’s actual command: “Let the women learn”

(31:00) Students, Not Silenced

• “Quietness and full submission” = posture of learning, not gag order

• Paul encouraging women to be educated in a culture that denied them

(38:00) 1 Corinthians 14 and the “Silence” Verses

• Some manuscripts don’t contain 1 Cor 14:34–35

• Others place the verses in different spots (likely a scribal note)

• Must be read alongside 1 Cor 11, where Paul expects women to pray and prophesy

(41:00) Headship: What Does “Head” Mean?

• Kephalē (Greek word usually translated “head”) means source or lifeline, not “boss”

• “The head of Christ is God” (1 Cor 11:3) — hierarchy here would break Trinitarian theology

• Ephesians 5: Christ as savior of the body (care, not command)

(47:00) Husbands & Wives in Ephesians 5

• Mutual submission (Ephesians 5:21)

• Jerome noted “submit” was added later in v.22

• Husbands called to love as Christ loved (self-sacrificial service)

(57:00) Women Leaders in Scripture

• Junia, “outstanding among the apostles” (Romans 16:7)

• Priscilla, teaching Apollos (Acts 18:26)

• Phoebe, deacon and patron, carrier of Romans

• Deborah (Judges 4–5), prophet and judge of Israel

• Huldah (2 Kings 22), prophet consulted by King Josiah

(1:09:00) Why This Matters to Matt

• Scripture led him to change his view, not culture

• Personal passion as a father of daughters and husband in ministry

• The church can’t afford to silence half the image of God

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Related Blog Post

143. Christians, Libertarians, and Voting: The Golden Rule Test

Are you unknowingly supporting tyranny every time you cast a ballot? This provocative question lies at the heart of our latest Bad Roman podcast episode featuring Jeb Smith, a thought-provoking writer challenging conventional wisdom on voting.

Christians, libertarians, or those who identify as both, often assume our civic duty includes heading to the polls. But what if participating in elections actually contradicts our core values? Let’s explore why voting might be fundamentally at odds with both Christian teachings and libertarian principles.

The Paradox of Voting

Jeb Smith argues that voting creates an inherent contradiction for both libertarians and Christians:

“If libertarianism is a live and let live attitude... voting is of course, the opposite of that. If libertarians get to that magic 51% and force their ways on everyone else, you’re no longer allowing Democrats and Republicans to have their way.”

This highlights a key tension: how can we claim to value individual liberty while simultaneously trying to impose our will on others through the ballot box?

For Christians, a similar dilemma emerges:

“God does not impose his way on us. He gives us the chance to choose him as Lord.”

That’s consistent with scripture:

• Matthew 7:12 – “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.”

• Luke 22:25–26 – “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them… But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves.”

By voting to enact laws that align with our religious beliefs or choosing the lesser of two evils, are we not contradicting this core tenet of free will and Jesus’ call to serve rather than rule?

The Corrupting Nature of Political Power

Our discussion revealed how the very act of seeking political office often attracts individuals with troubling personality traits:

“The traits to make a successful politician are right on with what psychopaths are. There’s a large percentage of politicians and business owners… who are actually psychopaths.”

This sobering reality forces us to question whether participating in such a system aligns with our values. Are we inadvertently empowering those least suited to wield authority over others?

Reframing Our Civic Engagement

Rather than viewing voting as our primary means of effecting change, Jeb suggests a radical shift in perspective:

“One thing I won’t be doing is voting or attempting to force my way on others. Instead, I will follow the Golden Rule and treat others the way I want them to treat me.”

This approach challenges us to find more direct, personal ways of living out our values and influencing our communities. It asks us to lead by example rather than coercion.

3 Ways Christians Can Engage Without Voting

Stepping away from the ballot box doesn’t mean apathy — it can actually free us to pursue more Christlike, effective forms of engagement:

1. Invest in Relationships

• Instead of dividing over red vs. blue, break bread with neighbors across the spectrum.

• Real conversations build bridges where political shouting matches burn them.

2. Serve in Voluntary Community Initiatives

• Join or start projects that meet needs without waiting for government programs — food co-ops, mutual aid, church-led charity.

• This models the early church in Acts 2:44–45.

3. Teach and Model the Alternative

• Share resources that explain why voting contradicts both the Golden Rule and libertarian non-aggression.

• Encourage others to question whether the ballot box truly aligns with Christ’s way of peace.

For more on how the early church lived differently from the empire, see our episode on Tertullian and political disengagement and our blog post on No King but Christ.

What We Learned About Voting and Values

This episode challenges us to critically examine our assumptions about civic duty and political engagement. It asks us to consider whether our current methods of participation truly align with our deepest held beliefs.

For Christians, it prompts reflection on how we can best emulate Christ’s example of servant leadership and respect for individual choice. For libertarians, it pushes us to more fully embrace the non-aggression principle — even when it comes to the ballot box.

Ultimately, this conversation invites us all to reimagine what responsible citizenship looks like in a world where voting may do more harm than good. It challenges us to find more authentic, impactful ways of living out our values and contributing to the betterment of society.

Listen to the full episode to explore: how might stepping away from voting change your approach to civic engagement? What new opportunities for positive influence might emerge?

Let’s continue this crucial dialogue and work toward a more voluntary, compassionate society one that truly respects the dignity and autonomy of every individual.

🤝Connect with JEB SMITH:

• Jeb's Books:

  • Defending the Middle Ages: Little Known Truths About the Crusades, Inquisitions, Medieval Women, and More

  • Missing Monarchy: Correcting Misconceptions About The Middle Ages, Medieval Kingship, Democracy, And Liberty

  • The Road Goes Ever On and On : A New Perspective on J. R. R. Tolkien and Middle-earth

  • Defending Dixieland

• Fanmail and Hate mail via email: jackson18611096@gmail.com

• Jeb's Article: Is Libertarianism Consistent with Voting?

Episode Timestamps:

(0:41) Libertarianism and Voting Consistency

• “Live and let live” vs. majority rule

• Concern: Christians voting to place rulers over neighbors

(1:51) Guest Update: Jeb Smith’s Recent Work

• Defending Dixie’s Land reissued by Shotwell Publishing
  Articles with Libertarian Institute and Libertarian Christian Institute

(2:50) Libertarian Voting Paradox

• Why informed libertarians still vote

• Habit, protest voting, and misunderstandings of libertarian philosophy

(4:04) Historical Voting Patterns and Motivations

• Jeb’s past protest votes (Libertarian)

• Reflection: voting often unexamined as a social default

(5:43) Libertarian Electoral Success and Philosophical Consistency

• If Libertarians won: risk of imposing on dissenting minorities

• Tension with non-aggression and consent

(7:34) Voting as Legitimizing Corrupt Systems

• Withholding participation vs. “lesser of two evils”

• Note on turnout; argument for withdrawing support

(9:40) The Nature of Political Power and Authority

• Critique: democratic “authority” without true consent

• Coercion mechanisms: taxation, enforcement, military

(12:07) Fear and Coercion in State Power

• Fear as unifying tool of large states
  Thought experiment: local secession and central pushback

(14:37) Christian and Libertarian Approaches to Governance

• “Make the state Christian/libertarian” still relies on force

• Emphasis on consent and free will

(19:06) Democracy and Bullying

• Framing: democracy as tax-funded coercion

• Politics alters behavior; hardens attitudes

(22:23) Political Involvement and Dehumanization

• Media demonization cycles

• Immigration/ICE example raised as moral test of neighbor-love

(27:01) Disengagement from Politics

• Unplugging from news → lower stress, clearer thinking

• Better interpersonal relationships

(30:28) Voting as Participation in War

• Casting a ballot likened to joining a conflict of control

• Incompatibility with libertarian non-aggression and Jesus’ kingdom ethic

(34:10) Secularization of Christianity through Politics

• Enforcing faith via state power vs. Christ’s model of service/consent

• Biblical concern: another “king” between us and neighbor

(36:16) The Corrupting Nature of Political Power

• Campaign incentives: compromise and ambition

• Preference for servant leadership over power-seeking

(40:08) Psychopathy in Politics and Business

• Claim: politics attracts control-oriented personalities

• Risk: concentrated power amplifies harm

(42:29) The Golden Rule and Political Non-Participation

• Jeb’s stance: no voting; no forcing others

• Reported outcomes: improved relationships; reduced stress

(47:54) Additional Resources and Contact Information

• Books noted; open invite for dialogue

• Direction to further critiques of democracy

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