The Bad Roman Project

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84. The Peaceful Path with Jordan Swaim

About this Episode

The Bad Roman is joined by Jordan Swaim of The Peaceful Way podcast, which explores the ideas, concepts, and mechanisms that produce peace and reduce violence. Jordan is well-versed in research on civil disobedience and explains some of the mechanisms that make it work. He talks about some sources he used to articulate a position on civil disobedience and how many people a movement needs to be effective. Jordan points out that an ‘intransigent minority’, a few people who refuse to go along with oppressive systems, can successfully use civil disobedience. He points out that even if you can justify a violent revolution and successfully overturn a government, the desired outcome will not be peaceful. Because it is in the nature of violence to multiply, it is dangerous to start.

Jordan is in Canada and switched jobs when he saw vaccine mandates coming for his workplace because “it is always inappropriate for your employer to tell you which pharmaceuticals you must consume.” He watched the trucker protests closely, and he shares some little-known insights with Craig as they discuss how the principles of nonviolent resistance were at work and how the mandates all quietly fizzled out within weeks of the protests proving their effectiveness.


Jordan Swaim:

The Peaceful Way Podcast

Twitter

YouTube

Craig on The Peaceful Way

PokeLab Radio

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Episode Timestamps:

8:23 – Political activism

  • The topic of how to view the state theologically will always be relevant

    • The state takes up more and more conversation time

  • The temptation to put forward an agenda is always present

  • It’s fruitless to do things through the state; look at the history

  • Let’s give Jesus a try

  • The prince and power of the air, rulers of this age

  • Colossians 1:16

  • The kingdom of God should be a parallel society

    • It is incompatible with the state

  • Voting is legitimizing the state

    • Using the state to bring social change feeds the beast

  • 1 Samuel 8

    • If rejecting God is not a sin, then what is?

18:45 – Who is Jordan Swain?

  • Lives in Calgary, Canada

  • Was in social services until the vaccine mandates came

    • Became a carpet and furniture cleaning technician

  • It’s inappropriate for your employer to tell you what pharmaceutical products to consume

  • Side jobs and a production company

  • Married with two kids

25:27 – Canada 

  • The government doesn’t require vaccine mandates any longer

    • But businesses are allowed to require vaccines in their employees

  • More open than the US

  • There are zero restrictions for entering Canada

  • The trucker protest had a significant impact

    • The new trucker restrictions were completely absurd

  • Every time the Trudeau government brought in restrictions their popularity gained

  • Trudeau ran a nasty campaign maligning the unvaccinated with absurd claims

  • At this point, it would be more respectable to admit to getting things wrong than going silent over covid

  • Vaccines were a failure

  • Ed Dowd: Epidemic of Sudden Deaths

    • The data says there are more young people dying on sports fields

  • The trucker convoy was wildly long

    • The largest civil disobedience protest in Canada’s history

    • Within 6 weeks the majority of restrictions were ended or announced to be ending soon

    • Media coverage tries to deny it had any impact on the restrictions

  • The Intransient Minority

    • You don’t need a majority of people to agree with something you just need 5% of people who refuse to go along with what they are told

    • Nassim Nicholas Taleb: The Black Swan

  • Organizers of the trucking convoy have been jailed

45:01 – Peaceful responses versus violent responses

  • More often than not a peaceful response is more effective

    • Erica Chenoweth: Why Civil Disobedience Works

    • The data proves peaceful protests are more successful

    • Revolution often brings worse rulers than the existing ones

      • Russian Revolution

  • You can make a case for justified violence but don’t assume you will achieve the desired outcomes

    • Violence spreads and intensifies

  • Society is propped up by the implicit threat of violent

    • This legitimizes violence

  • Violence is difficult to control, so dangerous to start

  • When JFK was trying to eliminate the Mafia they were just trying to get rid of the competition

  • Gandhi’s first act of civil disobedience was refusing to leave the seat he had paid for on a train

    • From there he developed his theory

  • You can’t get too hung up on the cult of personality surrounding heroes

  • Until white people saw peaceful protesters being hosed by government thugs they couldn’t understand or support what Martin Luther King’s people were going through

  • The trucking convoy was the demarcation line of when things started to get better

  • We had the data but the second round of lockdowns came

    • The hysteria around the virus was intense

      • Like something out of a movie

  • We have the ability to empower one another

    • We outnumber the police and politicians

    • We only need a small minority, the intransient minority

1:12:13 – The church’s response to covid

  • Jesus was the supreme disobedient human being

  • Pastor Tim Stevens was arrested for not complying with mandates

  • You should decide early at what point you will refuse to comply with the government

    • There is a good possibility that the government will push you to sin at some point

    • We are capable of doing things that we know are completely wrong

  • Craig doesn’t trust the church since covid

  • Why do you need to be involved in a church?

  • Spiritual community and participation without hierarchy, even if it is not in a church building is enough 

  • It's tough to find people to connect with in a church hierarchy

  • Church signs that say “If you have proof of vaccination, you’re welcome” are infuriating

    • You cannot turn people away based on the pharmaceutical they consume

    • It looks too much like the way the state acted

  • The amount of people attending churches post-covid is still lagging even though the restrictions are gone


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