100. Christian Ethics and Stateless Societies: The Anarchist Approach of the Perry Family

In the 100th episode of the podcast, host Craig Harguess is joined by guests Sarah and Jeff Perry from Voluntaryism in Action for a captivating exploration into the confluence of Christian values and the philosophy of anarchy. This milestone episode delves into the nuances of Christian Anarchism and Voluntarism, examining the personal metamorphoses that steer individuals away from traditional political paradigms toward a life of voluntary statelessness underpinned by faith. 

Throughout the episode, Sarah and Jeff Perry share the hurdles encountered in seeking a like-minded community and the challenges a society deeply ingrained with state-oriented ideologies poses. They shed light on the essence of fellowship and kinship, even in the digital sphere, for those who perceive themselves as misfits in a world unprepared for such radical ideas. The conversation also touches on the difficulty of communicating complex ideas over social media and the importance of giving people grace and meeting them where they are, as they were once in a similar position. The group emphasizes that the people they may joke about now were once reflections of their past selves, highlighting the transformative journey that led them to their current ideological stance. 

Taking an unexpected detour, the discussion ventures into the rustic world of homesteading, contrasting the merits of duck and chicken eggs and unpacking the symbolism it holds for Christian anarchists. This segment uncovers the layers of self-reliance and philosophical maturation, accompanied by a narrative of Jeff’s military service and how he underwent a profound ideological shift towards anarchism. 

The episode critically addresses the contentious interpretation of Romans 13 from an anarchist perspective, scrutinizing the alignment—or lack thereof—between modern democratic establishments and the teachings of Jesus. The discourse celebrates the significance of genuine leadership as demonstrated by Jesus, compared to the forceful rule often exhibited by earthly authorities. 

The discussion also spotlights the impactful initiatives of Voluntaryism in Action, emphasizing the human connections nurtured through voluntary charity. This starkly contrasts the impersonal touch of institutionalized aid, underscoring the human and spiritual dimensions of giving.

 Listeners are treated to a blend of humor, social commentary, and personal anecdotes that exemplify the intertwining of Christianity's core tenets with the principles of voluntaryism. As the 100th episode of the podcast, this thought-provoking journey offers an inspiring vision of community, support, and voluntary action shaped by love, grace, understanding, and Christian values.

Connect with the Perrys:

Website

Podcast: Voluntary View on Spotify, iTunes, Youtube

Key Moments:

00:02 Exploring Christian Anarchism and Voluntaryism

• Introduction to the intersection of Christianity and statelessness.

• Personal journeys from conventional politics to stateless existence based on Christian values.

• Importance of community, even if primarily online.

01:11 The Reach of the Bad Roman

• Discussion on the international reach of the podcast.

• Personal reflections on discovering Christian Anarchy.

• Surprise at finding a community with similar beliefs.

09:08 Duck Eggs and Freshly Laid Eggs

• Discussion on homesteading, duck vs. chicken eggs.

• Nutritional content and taste comparison.

• Personal anecdotes about self-sufficiency and philosophical evolution.

15:22 - Military Transition to Anarchism & Non-Judgmental Dialogue

• A former military medical officer's ideological shift towards anarchism.

• Impact of literature and libertarian thought on worldview.

• Emphasis on non-judgmental engagement within the anarchist community.

23:13 Christian Anarchism and the Bad Project

• Craig's journey from neoconservatism to Christian anarchism.

• Misconceptions about Christian Anarchy clarified.

• Sharing personal revelations about faith and statelessness.

26:41 Facebook Thread Drama and Miscommunication

• Addressing miscommunication and drama in a Facebook thread.

• Emphasis on understanding different perspectives within anarchism.

30:05 Understanding Anarchy and Romans 13 (11 Minutes)

• Interpretation of Romans 13 in the context of Christian anarchy.

• Biblical examples of resistance to secular authorities.

• Addressing objections related to submission to governing authorities.

33:57 Not Voting and Complaining About Government

• Discussion on Craig's decision not to vote and its implications.

• The counterintuitive nature of the argument that non-voters cannot complain.

38:41 Voluntarism and Anarchy

• Explanation of voluntarism as a subset of anarchy.

• Voluntarism focuses on voluntary interactions without coercion.

41:22 Religion, Government, and Accountability

• Differences between authority figures and authoritarianism.

• Critique of representative democracy and accountability.

• Reflection on the role of law enforcement and early church teachings.

49:57 Christian Anarchism and Voluntaryism Action

• Exploration of how Voluntaryism in Action embodies Christian Anarchist principles.

• Discussion on the organization's initiatives and community impact.

• Tension between Christianity and statism in church settings.

• Discomfort with nationalistic practices in worship.

• Early Christian teachings versus modern interpretations post-Constantine.

55:42 Voluntaryism

• Origins and evolution of a charitable organization, Voluntaryism in Action.

• Challenges and misconceptions surrounding non-profit work.

• Importance of voluntary giving and the impact of government programs on charity.

57:07 Obtaining & Maintaining 501(c)3 Status

• The process and challenges of obtaining 501(c)3 status for the organization.

• Insights into maintaining non-profit status and its importance.

01:04:18 Voluntaryism in Action

• Celebration of the work and achievements of Voluntaryism in Action.

• Personal anecdotes that underscore the organization's ethos.

01:09:36 Discussion on Voluntaryism in Action

• Impactful work of Voluntaryism in Action aligned with Christian values.

• Encouragement for listener support through donations or involvement.

• Challenges of social media censorship.

01:11:39 Twitter Campaigns and Content Restrictions

• Addressing the impact of content restrictions on social media campaigns.

• The organization's approach to creating and sharing provocative content.

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99. God's Country or Jesus’s Kingdom? Navigating the Nexus of Nationalism and Faith in America

Could the intertwining of faith and state authority be warping the very soul of Christianity? Unlock the complexities of Christian nationalism as we sit down for a round table to dissect the idolatrous juxtaposition of faith and governance. This episode dissects the potential hazards of conflating faith with state authority and how this can distort genuine religious practice and the core tenets of Christianity itself.

Join your host, Craig Harguess, along with friends of the show Chris Polk, Cody Cook, Paul Parayil, and Darren Freidinger, who help us peel back the layers of entanglement to reveal the true call of Faith. Witness a bold examination of Christian nationalism's historical claims and current implications in the realm of politics and social justice. 

As echoes of January 6th reverberate through the national consciousness, we scrutinize its portrayal as a Christian nationalist insurrection and the subsequent impact on political landscapes. The breach, the media's narrative, and the political fallout are dissected with a critical lens, contrasting the motives behind these actions with the broader implications for American society. We confront the seductive pull of cultural identity and the struggle to prioritize important global issues over trivial cultural squabbles. 

Through this dialogue, we strive to foster a deeper understanding of how a desire for a 'Christian nation' impacts both the spiritual body of Christ and our broader societal fabric. With a laid-back yet critical approach, we discuss the importance of curiosity and questioning in religious communities, advocating for meaningful action against social injustices rather than getting lost in cultural distractions. The panel lays out a thought-provoking journey through the contradictions of Christian nationalism, inviting you to reflect, question, and expand your understanding of faith in the public square.

The digital age has transformed the battleground of ideas, and we explore the challenges of engaging in meaningful discourse on social media amid generational technology. As we draw to a close, we advocate for deeper awareness and action, urging listeners not to be sidetracked by fleeting controversies but to remain steadfast in the pursuit of no king but Christ. Tune in for a thought-provoking journey through the contradictions and complexities of Christian nationalism.

Connect with Cody Cook:

• Libertarian Christian Insitute

• Podcast - Cantus Firmus

• Book - What Belongs to Caesar

• Listen to episode 89, Navigating Revivals in Christianity with Cody Cook

Connect with Chris Polk:

• Blue Ribbon Podcast

• Blue Ribbon Logistics

• Tik Tok

• Listen to More Bad Roman Episodes with Chris Polk:

  • Lessons from the Trucking Industry with Chris Polk, EP 77

  • Your Rights with Chris Polk & Jacob Daniel, EP 38

  • Home School: 2021 Year-End Round Table, EP 47

Connect with Paul Parayil:

• Paul Varkey Parayil on Facebook

Key Moments:

01:20 Christian Nationalism and Its Contradictions

• Christianity Today Article: What Is Christian Nationalism?

• Critiqued for distorting religious practice and undermining Christian principles.

• Enforcement of state authority is a key concern.

05:11 Christian Nationalism and the New Covenant

• Inconsistencies with Jesus' teachings are highlighted.

• Cherry-picking from the Old Testament discussed with guest Cody Cook.

15:20 Christian Nationalism and State Role

• Examination of Christian nationalism and its contrast with a kingdom culture mindset.

• Emphasis on the spiritual body of Christ over earthly rulers.

27:52 The Impact of Christian Nationalism

• Growth of the church during persecution discussed.

• Detachment from state affairs, detrimental effects, and pitfalls of striving for a "Christian nation."

33:13 January 6th and Christian Nationalism Discussion

• Discussion on the Capitol breach on January 6th.

• Examination of Christian nationalism, media portrayal, politicians' response, and intentions vs. implications of actions.

43:54 Exploring Christian Nationalism in Politics

• Aftermath of January 6th discussed.

• Accusations of Christian nationalism, manipulation by agencies, spectrum of ideologies, and complex relationship between American and Christian identities.

58:49 Challenges of Social Media Discourse

• Christian nationalism debates on social media.

• Generational gap in technology use, lack of curiosity in education and religion, and strategy for online discourse.

01:08:32 Christian Nationalism and Cultural Identity

• American democracy's defense of Anglo-Protestant culture discussed.

• Exclusion of Catholics and Orthodox believers, trivial cultural controversies distracting from pressing social injustices.

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88. Journeys of Faith: Unpacking Eschatology with Micah and John of City Square Podcast

About this Episode

Have you ever questioned your beliefs about the end times? Have you ever wondered about the different strands of eschatological thought and how they emerged? Strap in for a fascinating discussion with John and Micah, hosts of the City Square Podcast on eschatology. Listen in as we get into the heart of eschatology, a topic we've not extensively covered on the Bad Roman Podcast. It's an enlightening conversation filled with personal experiences, exciting insights, and a friendly rivalry over football.

Ready to expand your horizons? We explore different eschatological views, how popular culture influences these perspectives(The Left Behind Series), and the history of alternative beliefs and teachings. Hear about the three main views of eschatology (Amill, Pre-Mill, and Post-Mill), the interpretations of Christ's return, and the role of critical thinking and discernment in religious belief. We deconstruct the emergence of dispensationalism, where it came from, and its wide acceptance today.

But that’s not all! We’re pulling back the curtain on the City Square Podcast, revealing its conception, production, and mission. Hear how everyday people share stories of their faith and labor, contributing to the vibrant tapestry of human experience. We'll also discuss the bearing of eschatology on one's life and the potential it holds to shape our view of the world. With John and Micah as our guides, we journey through a landscape of belief, religion, and personal perspectives in this enlightening and entertaining episode.

Connect with our guests Micah and John:

Facebook

Instagram

Youtube

Spotify

Episode Timestamps:

01:10 - Who is Micah? 

• Husband, father, grew up Baptist before moving into Evenglicail philosophies 

• studied church father and found his way into LCMS (Lutheran Church Mission Synod)

02:56 - Who is John?

• Did not grow up in the Church

• God saved him in college

• He found his way into reform theology and planted a church in rural TX before moving to San Antonio

• Web Designer

04:27 West Texas & The Dallas Cowboys 

• Sports Rivalries

• Steve Young signed ball

9:36 Eschatology

• City Square Round Table

• The Rapture and Southern Baptist Churches view on it

• Preacher Ebb

• Dispensationalist Eschatology

12:33 John’s View of the Rapture and Eschatology

• Evangelical tradition’s relationship to dispensationalist Eschatology

• Left Behind Series

• Amillennialism Eschatology

• Traditional early Church view

16:14 Micah’s View and What is Amill?

• Amill

• Not a future literal thousand years, but Christ is reigning now with saints and will at some point return

• Post-mill

• Christ returns after minimum, but the world system gets progressively better until his return

• Pre-mill

• Christ returns before the millennium

• Dispensationalist 

• 18th century 19th century America

• Splits Christ's return into two parts

19:40 The Fear of Rapture as a Kid and where that gets directed 

• Not fear of self not being saved but those who do not believe

• Fear-based theology

• United Pentecostal

22:44 Why should we care about these different views as Christians?

• Dispensationalist in 2020

• “Everything was the anti-Christ”

• Most people don’t know there are multiple perspectives or the origins of Dispensationalism

• Dangers of going “too far”

• Eschatology as a barrier to a deeper faith

27:00 Israel’s Standing in Amill and Post-mill vs. Dispensationalism

• Book of Revelation and Daniel are important for Dispensationalism

• Symbolism vs. literalism 

• Multi Genere nature of the bible

• Eschatology is essential in informing how you shape your fundamental worldview

31:47 City Square Podcast and Covid-19

• Origin of name and logo

• Importance of talking to real people about who they are, what they do, and their faith

• Power of Stories

• Today and in the bible

• Authenticity

• Fandoms

• Covid and fake sports fans

45:20 Differences Between Lutheran and Reformed Theology

• John and Micah discuss Baptism

• Martin Luther

• Lord's Supper

• Christology

• Ecclesiology

• global church's view of Jesus' presence

53:54 How to connect with City Square and Micah and John

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83. The Cult of Statism with Larken Rose

About this Episode

Prominent anarchist activist and author Larken Rose joins Craig for a lively discussion on deprogramming people from the cult of statism. People are mostly inherently good at heart but have been indoctrinated from a young age to believe that government is a legitimate authority. Larken Rose makes a clear case for the immorality of government. Larken and Craig discuss how to engage statists using methods designed to combat their cognitive biases and awaken their inner anarchist.

Government preys on people's fears to keep them voting for corrupt politicians' forcible domination of their neighbors. To keep the rules, the ruling class (politicians) have enforcers (police) empowered to engage in acts of violence that most voters would bulk at committing against another human beings. Thus, when Christians vote, they are unwittingly breaking Jesus' golden rule and doing to others the exact opposite of what they want to have done to themselves. 

Christians should be the most suspicious of the state as it is a competing religious entity with all the rituals, fancy buildings and pomp. But unfortunately, some Christians strongly believe in the state and its illegitimate rulers even more than they believe in Jesus. These Christians need to be gently shown the contradictions in their beliefs and that when they advocate for a human ruler, they advocate for the subjugation of themselves and their neighbors. True followers of Jesus should see that Christianity and the cult of statism oppose each other, but Christianity and anarchy are not mutually exclusive.

Larken Rose:

The Most Dangerous Superstition 

YouTube

Candles in the Dark

Facebook

Episode Timestamps:

4:17 – About Larken Rose:

• Taught to doubt and debate ideas from a young age

• Began trying to decide what a legitimate or moral government looks like

• Accidentally fell off the political spectrum

• Realized that 'legitimate government' is an oxymoron

• Government has no special power to rob or legislate

• Assumes people have consciences and can distinguish right from wrong

• That's why he's an anarchist

•  Doesn't care what people say they believe about religion

• How they treat other people matters

• Do they abide by the non-aggression principle?

• If the government disappeared suddenly, Larken would prefer to be around Christian Statists than some atheist anarchists

• They are nicer people without the political monstrosity

• The quality of people matters most

16:09 – What currently ails the world?

• People have been taught to believe that when evil is committed by government authorities, it is no longer evil

• Individuals are tricked into cheering for evil

• Even Hitler, Stalin and Mao

• They fall for the false god

• Because their fears are played on

• Christians gloss over Matthew 20:25-28

• David Bently Hart New Testament Translation

24:33 – How to awaken someone else's inner anarchist

• People know the corruption of government but try not to know at the same time

• Larken Rose asks others to be personal, literal and specific while asking questions about why they need the government

• If they respond, "protect the innocent"

• Larken asks, "If I found a more efficient way to protect the innocent and refuse to pay for police. What should happen to me?"

• They get uncomfortable as Larken asks them to be specific about what should happen.

• They don't want to blurt out the violence of government

• No arguing is required

• Because if they advocate for a government they are advocating violence against peaceful citizens

• Wanting to "help the poor" is no longer fluffy-sounding goodness

• Should only the state have all the guns?

• Candles in the Dark

• No one wants to admit the violence they condone

• They don't dare look at the conflicts in their beliefs

• We need to lead them to the cognitive dissonance

41:36 – Don't do unto others what you don't want them to do unto you 

• Literally every voter does exactly what they don't want the other side to do to them

• Democracy is the best trick tyrants ever came up with

• It makes people mad at each other

• It makes people consent and vote for evil

• Politicians are all feasting together and laughing at your fears

• Did you just enable evil?

• The other bad guy option is irrelevant

• You cheer for your own subjugation

• You victimize everybody when you vote

• Jesus advocated serving others not lording it over them

• The Soviet Union, China and North Korea are all Constitutional Republics and have their own Bill of Rights

• It's wrong to ask someone else to commit evil for you

• Everyone who votes is a hypocrite without knowing it

• They vote for others to do things they know would be wrong if they did it themselves

• They are not going to go door-to-door to rob people to give to the poor

54:39 – Statism is a religion

• It has rituals, ceremonies, grandiose halls, pomp and tradition

• Voting is just choosing your new god

• The pieces of paper are religious texts

• Statism: The Most Dangerous Religion

• Government authority is not a real thing

• Pledging allegiance in churches doesn't happen in other nations

• Vaccines in churches

• It's frustrating to try to talk people out of their programming

• Need to use cult deprogramming tactics

• Belief in government is a cult

• They don't realize they hold a faith

• If people were living in a free society and someone came along and suggested we give them the power to forcibly rob and dominate we would say, 'no'

• But every election comes down to, 'give me power over you and everyone you know'

• People become violent if you dare bash the pledge of allegiance or trample on the flag

• Belief in government is a faith; not practical or logical

• People are trained to pledge loyalty to the authoritarian rulers of the US

• People are horrified if you admit to being unpatriotic

• Some Christians will become more upset when they hear, "I don't believe in government"
  then when they hear, "I don't believe in God"

• Government is what they really believe in

• Sometimes you need to offend people to shake them out of their indoctrination

1:08:28 – Government: The largest gang

• Without government, there would still be bad actors, but they would not be able to marshal the firepower that governments have

• People feel morally obliged to give them their extortion fees 

• All of the governmental power comes from the people they duped

• Taxpayers and enforcers

• Congressmen will not come to try to take your money personally

• They use it to make nuclear warheads and tanks

• Corporations cannot make us buy their products; if they tried, people would wipe them out

• No gang can enslave the population of the US

• Larken Rose is optimistic

• If people start ignoring the government and human rulers, the government is done

• The evil people are way outnumbered by good

• Rulers are just people

1:18:07 - Religion and anarchism are not mutually exclusive

• People can use gods to justify violence against others or as a standard to live by

• Government can never be legitimate, but belief in god is not automatically bad

• Not automatically authoritarian

• Religion has been used in the past to create authoritarian rulers too

• If society's standard is not initiating violence against others, that will allow peaceful co-existence

• It allows friendly discussions on all sorts of topics

• Christians have a reason to identify as anarchists: Jesus Christ

• Christian, who do you pay tribute to? Whom do you ask to save you from your enemies? If its people in Washington, you need to consider who your god is

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74. Can We Love More Than We Hate with Hodey Johns

About this Episode

This week Craig is joined by Hodey Johns, co-host of the Enemy of My Enemy podcast from the We Are Libertarians Network. They discuss focussing on love that looks like how God loves us, contrasting these with social media discussions that look more like hate. They talk about political statements that assume God hates those on the wrong end of our favorite policies. However, Christians shouldn't even be on the political spectrum. Can the love of Jesus be made visible when we fight online over our political positioning?

The Israelites received laws from the very hand of God, but they missed His heart for humanity to follow their consciences in loving their neighbors. Not even Jewish regulations could justify people in the sight of God because love is the fulfillment of the law. Jesus proved this when he righteously ignored the Levitical laws, and the Pharisees proved that one could follow the rules perfectly and still be unrighteous.

Unfortunately, we haven't learned this; hate may be more natural to Christians than love. We fail to worship God according to His desires when we fail to love those around us. As Christians, rather than looking for the boundaries we should not step on and assume that the rest of our conduct is loving, we need to seek the narrow path and aggressively love everyone, including our enemies. After all, this is how Christ first loved us.

Hodey Johns:

·       Facebook

·       Instagram

·       Twitter

Episode Timestamps:

1:56 – Introduction to Hodey Johns

·       Loves debates

·       Theologian

·       Writes about video games

·       Parents weren't very interested in their own Christian faith

o   Hodey was self-taught in Christianity and the Bible from a young age

·       Became a Mormon for 15 years

·       Lived all over the states

o   Noticed that Christian culture differs from place to place

6:19 – Christians on Social Media

·       Do more Christians need to put themselves out there on social media?

·       People don't change their minds in an instant or one conversation

o   They contemplate new ideas for a while

o   Like planting a new tree, waiting and tasting its fruit

·       We can't let others do the theological thinking for us

o   Not even religious folks

o   Jesus called the Pharisees a brood of vipers

·       No Christian has everything figured out

o   Christianity is a process

o   But we don't need to worry because we know who God is

16:14 – Love one another and love your enemy

·       Christians have a tough time balancing being in the world but not of the world

·       Thankfully, it's not all over once you sin

·       When you sin and recover, you get better

·       Christians wield hate and fear as a conversion method

o   We have all experienced hate

o   As Christians, we know that hate is evil

·       Love is the highest commandment

o   Jesus loved us and died for us

o   Would we give up our lives for those we are fighting with on social media

·       Love is not just the absence of hate

·       We ought to be aggressively loving

o   Christianity is a narrow path

·       Christianity should not be us saying, "God opposes [insert pet peeve here]"

·       There is real hate from both left- and right-wing Christians

·       Christians should not be on a political spectrum

·       Biden's student loan debt write-offs are not forgiveness

·       The left likes to think it has a monopoly on love

·       Jesus only spoke in parables to the public

o   Stories of love and goodness

o   We should be using stories too and asking, "who is the loving neighbour?"

·       Moral choices are required for good deeds to be produced

·       Paying taxes is not a virtue

33:09 – How ethical is the law?

·       Immigrants from Mexico who come to better their lives are human beings too

o   They cross an imaginary line to come here

o   The law of the land is in opposition to God's law

o   They only come to eat and feed their families

o   Christians don't seem to understand this

o   They are still image bearers of God

·       Jewish law was superior to today's laws

o   They still condemned people

o   They still allowed for the killing of Jesus Christ

·       The Bible can be summarised as people trying to justify themselves by the law

o   It was to show the way to being led by the Holy Spirit

o   It was to give the Israelites time to escape the slave mentality of Egypt

·       Where is your faith?

o   Do politicians protect you and your nation?

o   It should be in Jesus Christ

o   Why are Christians scared of immigrants?

o   In Jesus' death and resurrection Christianity grew

·       Christianity's hey-day was when Christians were stateless

·       The Israelites' laws changed from chapter to chapter of Leviticus

o   The law was being revised constantly

§  God was stable; His people were not

o   They couldn't enter the promised land until they realised the law could not save them

·       Even the wandering Israelites went astray when they tried to turn their relationship with God into a law-based system

40:19 – We can't legislate love.

·       The complex legal system that we have cannot be used to promote Christian values

o   The Israelites walked together with God and couldn't make the law work

·       Laws are written on paper, but let's try to figure out what is right

·       The will of God is to love one another

o   Love is the command

o   We worship someone else when we fail to love

·       When Christians think they are God, they become hateful

·       Are you really a Christian if you are not moving towards love?

·       Are we being motivated by the love of Christ?

45:57 – Church is unappealing when we don't have love

·       Church attendance has dropped off since 2013

·       There are reasons why people don't go to church

o   Hate-filled sermons

o   Hate-filled conversations with people after church

·       Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax-collectors

o   We should also be showing them the love of Christ

·       Jesus' measure of how to get into heaven was to forgive and not judge others

o   That is mentioned more often than other methods usually suggested

·       Homosexuality is not a sin

·       Whosoever is angry with his brother is at risk of being judged

·        Jesus said himself that if you call someone gay, you are in danger of being judged

·       Wanting to punish people crossing a border is wrong

·       Jesus ignored the law and healed on the Sabbath

o   This is why Hodey trashes the law

o   Jesus never denied breaking the Sabbath

·       The scriptures are stories of people working out morality in a complex world

·       The transformation of your heart is all that matters

·       You can break the law and be right

·       You can follow the Levitical law and be wrong

o   The Pharisees proved it

·       Jesus ignored the laws, so we can ignore immoral laws also

1:05:47 – Smoked meats

·       During covid, Hodey picked up a smoking meats hobby

·       Smoking meat makes Hodey a better person

o   It's a philosophical journey

o   The community is full of nice people

·       Well-cooked brisket is a bad piece of meat turned good through cooking

·       Mesquite trees make the best-smoked meats

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69. From angry An-Cap to peaceful Christian with John Krueger

About this Episode

Craig is joined by John Krueger for a conversation about his journey from being an angry Anarcho-Capitalist to a peaceful Anarcho-Christian. Unjust police killings, SWAT raids gone wrong and harsh lockdowns made John angry. He was eager to learn how to use a gun and imagined himself needing to protect his family from police violence. In the midst of this, the Holy Spirit met John and showed him a peaceful option.

Libertarian philosophy is peaceful, but we need Jesus and His word to have the whole picture. Craig and John advocate for Christian pacifism and examine what was going on in their hearts at the points when they both contemplated joining the military. Craig and John discuss the libertarian and Christian anarchist positions on the decriminalization of drugs, the real needs of terrorists, the US at war, gun control, and other contentious current issues.

The state is coercion and violence. Laws are enforced with fines that are begrudgingly paid to avoid the threat of violence or time spent in a cage. You cannot make people peaceful like this, using the state’s methods. But rather, we need to be those who allow the Holy Spirit to work in us to change the hearts and minds of those surrounding us; that is how social change works in the Kingdom. Let’s listen to Jesus and do things His way, forsaking violence and anger. Let’s work towards peace.

Connect with John Krueger on

• Practical Christology

• TikTok

Episode Timestamps:

1:27 – Who is John Krueger?

• From Columbus, Ohio

  • Grew up attending church

• 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 stood out

  • Paul writes about grace

• Journey to anarchism

  • Read Blue Like Jazz

    • Jesus was not a republican or a conservative

    • Became politically independent

  • Eventually considered voting

    • Began researching libertarianism

      • Clicked with his understanding of the Grace of God

  • Took a few more years to become an anarcho-capitalist

8:58 – Libertarians, drugs, and terrorists

• It’s easy to understand decriminalizing marijuana 

• Harder to understand decriminalizing heroin use

  • People shouldn’t be locked in a cage for it

  • People should be free to make their own choices

    • Provided they aren’t hurting others

• Osama Bin Laden needed Jesus

  • Not bombs

  • We can’t bomb people into peace

    • If we bomb all sinners, there will be no one left

• John and Craig let go of the war stuff last

  • The history of the Middle East is important

  • The US is still at war

    • More people are mad at the US for continuously bombing them

• Jesus said in His Kingdom:

  • You rule by washing feet

    • Only pagans lord it over their subjects

  • But instead, our “Christian Nation” goes to war

    • To spread democracy

• We don’t need the government for roads

• We don’t need police

• Losing friends because of speaking out about:

  • Getting troops home

  • Veteran suicides

  • Broken men and families

  • Sending the poor to fight a rich man’s war

20:11 – Craig and John considered joining the military

• Craig wanted to kill people out of anger after 911

  • Application rejected

    • 4 pounds over the weight limit

• John wanted to join the military because he felt powerless

  • Wanted to be great in battle - like David

  • Experienced God’s compassion for those killed on both sides

• Christians still justify war and killing

  • Jesus said when you have seen me, you have seen the Father

  • There is nothing about Jesus’ life that says you can kill in war

• Pacifism is the way for Christians

  • Craig still gets a hard time from Christians for his pacifist stance

  • The early church was 100% pacifist

    • Even to their own deaths

  • Jesus healed the Roman soldier and admonished Peter

    • When Jesus disarmed Peter, he disarmed every Christian

26:24 – Libertarians and Gun Control

• After shootings those on the left talk about taking away guns

• But guns will be taken away by force

  • Giving more power to the state

• Need to study history

• We don’t advocate for gun control

  • It’s enforced by violence

  • We should bear God’s peace instead

• The left sees calls to reduce state size as calls to let people starve

• John does not own guns, 

  • Only advocates for less government action

• We don’t use the state for any reason

• The same people who take guns away are those who shoot unarmed black men

• Fines are enforced through the threat of violence

• The ‘hero’ who ended the life of a would-be shooter still ended a life

• Jesus would not be training churches to enact violence

• We are here to bring the gospel to people

37:10 – From angry An-Cap to peaceful Christian Anarchist

• When John was an An-Cap he was angry at the state

  • Police killings made him angry

  • Made him want to get into guns

• Angry at government shutdowns because of shutdowns

• Holy Spirit showed him it would be better to defy the government in peaceful ways

  • Sneakily helping people

  • Blessing those who curse

  • Not needing to worry about what to say in front of judges

• Libertarians are never happy with the government

  • No matter who is in power they are stuffing everything up

  • Anger is not the fruit of the spirit

• Romans 11-14 need to be read together

  • Our heart position should be peaceful

• Libertarians need Jesus to have the full picture

42:48 – Romans 13 and libertarianism

• “Submit” and “obey” are not the same

  • When Christians get it wrong: 

    • They end up supporting government atrocities

    • Lives will be ruined

    • The state becomes an idol

• The early church withheld communion from people who worked for the state

  • Unless people were already soldiers

    • And had sworn off killing or oppressing people

    • None wore their weapons

    • All were to serve

• Getting Christians into power will not help

  • It is no longer Christianity

• The power is the wrong power

  • The Holy Spirit is the only power we need

  • Political power is force

  • Christians do not need to take the ”Seven Mountains” of power

  • These do not sound like Jesus

• Polycarp would not denounce Jesus

  • In the face of his own death

  • King Jesus has never done me any harm

• Everything that the state does harms somebody in some fashion

  • If they are helping you, they are harming someone else

  • The state is not a protector

• Jesus Christ is the only King

  • He wants the best for us

54:12 – How should we pray for government?

• We should pray for government and leaders

  • Craig prays for the state to end

  • The current chaos is caused by the state

  • We need to follow Jesus and walk away

  • John prays for leadership to know the gospel

    • Not the American folklore

    • But the true gospel

• Craig will take the words of the early church fathers over pastors

  • When modern pastors disagree with the early church

  • They still screwed things up

  • They aren’t Jesus

  • They were closer in time to Jesus

  • We need to get back to that

    • What we are doing now as the church is not working

• The Reformers had a blind spot when it came to the church

  • They killed people

• The Anabaptists became the Mennonites and Amish

  • They were peaceful

• Catholics are going back to mysticism

  • The church fathers and grace teachings

1:02:54 – Let’s bring it back to Jesus

• Listen to Jesus

  • Love your neighbor

  • Love your enemy

  • Love God

• It’s impossible to follow His teachings

  • But we should try:

    • Working towards good

    • Not working toward violence

    • Not working towards anger or hate

    • Working towards peace

---

Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

68. Tyrants be Gone with Duncan Palmer

About this Episode

The Kingdom of God is at hand! Duncan Palmer joins Craig for a discussion of what the Good News entails and a key point that Christians are missing today: The Kingdom of God is here and now. Poor Bible translations go all the way back to Augustine, leading God’s people into confusion about their purpose. For example, ‘ecclesia’ is often rendered ‘church’ in modern translations, whereas a better translation refers to a gathering or assembly of people who managed the local city. The only God-ordained governance structure is the ecclesia, which happens when the church willingly submits to servant leadership and God’s laws alone. 

Craig and Duncan discuss the historical points where the church went wrong, then turn to Duncan’s article “Tyrants be Gone: Say Hello to the New Boss”. There are no good guys in the fiefdoms of Satan; even your favorite candidate is nothing more than a tinpot tyrant playing with authority that does not belong to him. No human being is given authority to rule over another. Therefore, instead of participating in politics, Christians are to opt out, declare independence, and make worldly governments obsolete. When we do, we will usher in the Kingdom of God. We need to be creating things of value helping and encouraging each other, and trading amongst ourselves. Jesus invites us to live freely in this voluntary society. He welcomes us into the Kingdom of God! This is the missing part of the Good News!

Duncan’s article

Duncan’s Hive Blog Articles

Episode Timestamps:

2:25 – Introduce Duncan’s article

• Well shared in the discussion group

• Written so that people can get a glimpse of what the good news really is

3:33 – Who is Duncan Palmer?

• Grew up in America in the 50s and 60s

  • Heard that America was the freest country in the world

  • Republican family background

• Supported Ron Paul when he ran for office

• In the 90s, Duncan realised he was being extorted for tax money

  • Not as free as he thought

  • Taxation is a fraudulent system

• Learned from Larken Rose

  • Book: The Most Dangerous Superstition

  • Podcast: Outside the Cage

  • Not a believer but has a lot to say to Christians about neighbourly love and oppression

7: 11 – The importance of language

• Duncan uses the label anarchist

• Bad Bible translations are of the devil

• The Bible is misquoted, mistranslated, and misread

• Get back to the basic teachings of Christ

• Duncan’s definition of anarchist:

  • No human rulers  

  • God is the only legitimate ruler

  • He is a benevolent ruler

  • A Christ-archist or Thearchist

• The enemy has taken the term ‘anarchist’ and perverted its definition

  • It doesn’t mean bomb throwing radicals out to destroy everything

  • Words ought to be our servants, not the other way around

• Voluntaryist

  • The Kingdom of God is based on voluntary interactions

    • Radically different from the kingdoms of the world

  • The ‘kings’ of this world have no legitimate authority

• The early church lived in a voluntary society

  • Anarchism and Christianity should be synonymous 

14:16 – The church is in bed with the state

• Learning the history of the church

• Craig has become fascinated by church history

  • Prior to Constantine

  • This is how the church should behave today too

  • They had their own disagreements

  • Universally recognized Jesus as King

  • Tertullian believed in Eternal Conscious Torment

  • Tertullian was vocal about the state

  • Some of the early church writers were taught directly by the apostles

    • Polycarp

    • The church has gone in the opposite direction of these writings

• Ecclesia – The gathering of people who managed the local city

• Duncan is reading through the New Testament in Greek

  • Trying to get the whole picture

  • Major points:

    • Ecclesia – church is a poor translation

    • Gathering, assembly or congregation might be better options

    • The church should guide the local population rather than the worldly institutions

• David Bently Hart

  • New Greek New Testament Translation of the Bible

  • Augustine translated the Bible from Latin not Greek

  • There are differences that change the meaning of the text

  • Mistranslations are being taught in the church

• 1 Corinthians 1:26 – Not too many bright believers verse

• The Curmudgeons Bible Library

  • Complaints about poor Bible translations

22:20 – How Duncan became a Christian Anarchist

• The state lies to everyone and imposing an illegal income tax

• The Law – Frederic Bastiat

  • Recommended reading

  • Very thin

  • Made Duncan realise that the only law that we should respect is God’s law

    • More than 400 instances of the word ‘law’ in the Bible maybe only a dozen of them reference human made laws.

    • Man-made laws are always spoken of with disdain

    • Romans 13:1 refers to God’s law not human mandates

• Christians are afraid of the other team, so they resort to using the state

26:52 - The church has gone wrong at a few historical points:

• Constantine co-opted the church

  • The church is to replace and obviate the rule of Satan on earth

•  Replacing the commandments of God with the traditions of men

  • During the Reformation

    • The Reformation did not go far enough

    • Reformers divided the world into ecclesiastical governments and civil government

    • A better distinction is the Kingdom of God and Fiefdoms of Satan

    • Civil government is seen as legitimate and desirable

    • Throughout scripture those structures are Satan’s government systems

    • Evil and influenced by demons

    • The church should be separate from those structures 

    • Jesus refused the authority that Satan tempted him with

    • The early church recognised this

• The Empire of the United States is crumbling

  • Current trajectory is unsustainable

  • Christians need to be ready for this

  • It is going to be chaotic and scary

  • If we follow Jesus everything will be fine

  • Secular anarchists could learn from Christians

  • It’s too exhausting to keep wasting time arguing about going back to the Mises Caucus

32:02 - The church should act as God’s new governance structure

• The Bible is a handbook for governance

• The only authority God grants the church is directly going to our brother, or bringing others into an argument or bringing conflicts before the whole ecclesia from where they may be ejected

• There is nowhere left to go when looking for somewhere where liberty can be found

• Seasteading: the idea that people could build communities out in the ocean

  • Out of the fiefdoms of Satan

  • We are supposed to be denying territorial jurisdictions

  • We are to be a Holy nation from every tribe and nation

  • Our common ruler Jesus is to be our common ground

• The good news of the Kingdom has been abandoned

  • John and Jesus preached it

  • There’s a new boss in town

  • We need to take power and authority to deny the tyrants around us

37:34 – Tyrant be Gone. Say hello to the New Boss

• The church is misunderstood

  • What we have now is not what was supposed to be

• There’s a new boss in town

• We’ve done a marginal job of letting people know who King Jesus is

  • We’ve misdirected everyone sitting in pews into worshipping the state

    • Romans 13 is mistranslated

    • Use as a bludgeon on the head of believers

    • Teaching to do everything as the government says to do it

  • Let every soul be subject to the highest authorities, namely God and His Word

    • The only true authority

• The government will be upon His shoulders

  • Is Afghanistan or China upheld by Jesus?

  • Christians seem to think that America is the good guy

    • Patently not true given all the overseas deaths caused by foreign policy

41:53 – There are no good guys at all in the fiefdoms of Satan

• The sooner the church realises that Jesus is in the process of destroying those fiefdoms the better

• The right number of Christians in office won’t make things better

• George W Bush said God wanted him to run for office

  • 9 months later the never-ending war began

• Ambassadors do not participate in government

  • We are to be God’s ambassadors

• The missing part of the good news of the Kingdom of God

  • The church pushes news of the Kingdom into some distant future

  • Whereas it should be here and now

• America is not your friend

  • America is not a saviour

  • It is destruction

46:34 - Aren’t you sick and tired of tyrants?

• Even your favourite candidate is a tyrant

• Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results

• People are scared of the Democrats or Republicans

  • So, they put libertarians in office

  • They are still putting someone in power over their brothers and sisters

    • Jesus didn’t say to do that

    • You see how the gentiles lord it over them? It should not be so among you

• Satan likes to divide and conquer

  • Splitting people into camps to do battle with each other

• The only power they have is to rob, hurt and enslave

• God has not ordained or authorised the state to do that

  • This is a lie from the deepest pit of hell

  • Backed by demons

  • Christians need to walk away and follow Jesus

• In light of Romans 13 how do you read Acts 5?

  • There are two different definitions of submission and obedience

  • There are a lot of poorly understood words

• The Bible calls for leadership that we voluntarily follow rather than dictatorships

  • The only legitimate rules are God’s laws

    • These rules are written on our hearts

    • Respect the scriptures, but don’t slavishly check every move we make

    • Follow Jesus’ law of love

• The calling as the assembly is to step out of the world, voluntarily submit to servant leadership in the church

• We are not to participate in the failed kingdoms of this world

  • Even the US is based on satanic principles

  • Instead become a decentralized replacement governance system

  • Acknowledge King Jesus and deny allegiance to any other jurisdiction

• People are not understanding this

• How do we make people see that the state is evil, and we should abstain from it?

• Comparison chart that shows principles that the state runs on versus what the ecclesia should be running on.

• Libertarian philosophy states we should not initiate violence

  • The state runs on violence

  • Violence in defence might have legitimate value

    • When providing for one’s own household

• No human being or group have legitimate rights to rule over other humans

  • Satan said in his heart that he would be like God

    • Ruling over people

    • Taking the place of God

  • People may rule over creation, but never other human beings

    • Only Jesus holds this right as creator

  • The state is committing the same crime as Satan

    • Asserting that they have the right to arbitrarily dictate to us what we must do

55:06 – Implementing God’s Kingdom

• Entering God’s Kingdom means we leave the kingdoms of the world

  • Leave them in the dustbin

  • Establish something superior

  • Make them obsolete

  • This is what it means to seek first the Kingdom of God

• Humanity will be drawn towards their true King when we do this

• Opt out of the state

  • And everything else will be added to you

• The church seems to have missed this important part of the good news the Kingdom of God

• The assembly needs to stop viewing the assembly as purely spiritual

  • Ecclesia is not a spiritual social club

• We need to be God’s Kingdom in this world

  • We need to be creators in this world

    • We reflect God when we create things of value

• We need to encourage each other through our occupations

• We need to help one another provide for our families

• Trade with one another

  • We need solid ‘weights and measures’ like Bitcoin

  • We need our own economic system

  • We need to encourage each other’s endeavours, such as the Bad Roman Project

    • Helping to expand God’s Kingdom in the world

• We need to encourage each other’s development in writing and the arts

  • We need to do these in the name of God

  • We need to help each other

• There is no church/state separation where churches are 501 C3 corporations

  • The church becomes subservient to Satan himself

• We need to declare our independence

  • Shelter our members from taxation and state depravations

• We need to be encouraging entrepreneurism 

  • Establishing enterprises

  • Bringing wealth into the Kingdom

    • Use the wealth to advance God’s Kingdom

• We need to declare independence from territorial jurisdiction

• Covid made it clear that the state is out to shut the church down

  • We need to push back

• We need more Christian podcasters flooding the arena with this

• Jesus’ generous offer is still available to us

  • Let those who are thirsty come

  • Take the water of life without cost

1:02:37 – 1 Timothy 6: 11-17

• Paul says to Timothy:

  • Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love and steadfastness

  • He ties that good confession in with Jesus

• Jesus confessed before Pontius Pilate that His Kingdom is not of this world

• Jesus is the blessed and only sovereign, the King of Kings

• He dwells in unapproachable light

• He holds a branch of peace to His enemies

  • He hasn’t crushed them under His feet yet

• We need to be the assembly that draws people to Him

• Jesus says we can come and be a part of this voluntary society

  • We can live totally free

  • Jesus the only worthy ruler

  • He continues to bless us

• We just need to trust Jesus

• We have an eternity of God’s kindness to look forward to

  • And an entire universe to explore

  • A childlike wonder about the vastness of God and His creation

---

Related Episodes

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67. What do gambling and voting have in common? with Paul Varkey

About this Episode

Craig is joined by Paul Parayil for his first-ever podcast appearance. Through his prolific and provocative writings, Paul advocates for liberty, truth, honesty, and the Kingdom of God. His blog and Facebook posts have garnered quite a following. In this episode, they discuss Paul's article, "Do you believe Gambling is a vice? I don't think you do". In the article, Paul grabs the attention of the evangelical right audience and shows how Christians engage in high-stakes gambling on something worse than cards. Fear produces voting, but just like casino gambling, the house (or the state) always wins.

When the church condones the state's violence, it fails to align with people's consciences, becoming a stumbling block. However, the church will find itself more attractive when Christians promote Jesus's basic teachings of self-governance and doing no harm. We use the term Christian Anarchist because a core component of Christianity has been lost. Instead, that which should be an obvious and natural occurrence in the church must be emphasized. Anarchy is implied, and the entire gospel message is summed up in one sentence: No King but Christ. 

Since the beginning of the church, we have had one King. Jesus never sought political office! It is morally inconsistent of us to believe we have the right to coerce our neighbors with political power gained through participation in state activities, be they politics or voting. We are more consistent with Jesus's actions when we serve from the fringes of society with love and charity. The beginning of the healing of this world is through peacefully walking away from the gamble that is voting.

Paul's social media: 

• FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/paul.varkey , 

• Hive blog

Episode Timestamps:

1:15 Introduce Paul

• Enjoys writing 

  • Initially, to clarify his own thoughts

  • Found others enjoy thinking outside the box and reading his writings

• Often interacting in various Christian Anarchist circles

• Family originally from India 

  • A family of practicing Christians 

  • When Paul was three, his parents immigrated to the Middle East (Saudi Arabia) and lived there until he graduated from high school

  • Christmas holidays were spent visiting family in India

• Education

  • Graduated high school in Saudi Arabia

  • Went back to India for college

  • Moved to the US as a graduate student in 2004

  • Moved to California to work as a software engineer in 2011

  • Been working in Tech since then

5:45 How did Paul come to Christian anarchy?

• Brought up as Christians in Saudi Arabia.

• Moved to Chicago at 21 years old

  • Began thinking about politics

  • Knew he was pro-life because it's a matter that evangelicals care about

  • Became a republican quickly

• Knew that his support for GOP was tribalism  

• Heard of Ron Paul and what he had to say about:

  • The Fed

  • The Military-Industrial Complex, https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/military-industrial-complex 

  • Regulatory capture of the big corporations

• Provoked into considering the logical inconsistency of his own beliefs 

  • Began looking into political libertarianism

  • Kicked and screamed for a few years into anarchy 

• Was not aware of Christian anarchism 

  • A closet Christian Anarchist 

  • No one to fellowship with

  • Craig also had a similar experience until he came across the Anarcho Christian Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/645893438920507 

10:15 What is Christian Anarchism?

• The early church were anarchists 

  • Including Jesus 

• No title; the word didn't exist

  • But they practiced it

  • It was an obvious part of being a Christian

    • Do you tell people that you are a "virgin birthist"? 

    • There's no need to specify because most Christians believe in it

    • So it was with Christian anarchy in the early church 

  • A core message has been lost of how the kingdom of God works with nations here

• We've lost an essential message of the gospel, so we must use the label to emphasize it

• It's okay to disagree with others

  • Secular anarchists

  • Or even Paul of Tarsus

• It's more important to follow Jesus than anarchy

15:35 No King But Christ 

• Essentially communicates the whole gospel message 

  • While implying anarchy

• How are secular anarchists preaching better moral truths than the church? 

• Anarcho Christian Facebook group:

  • Don't all agree on Christian doctrines

  • They at least agree on the anarchist outlook

• More people seem to be latching onto anarchy

  • Self-rule

  • Do no harm

  • Don't take my things

  • Follow the basic teachings of Christ

• Voluntaryism doesn't trigger Christian minds to think of chaos.

• In the right-leaning "Christian" culture, there is an identification of patriotism and nationalism as the proper practicing of faith

20:30 Paul pokes the bear to make people think.

• The biggest tragedies of the church: 

  • We lost the concept of No King But Christ 

  • Colluding with the state

  • In both the Eastern Christian and Western church circles

  • We have compromised our values

22:46 Read Paul’s Article: "Do you believe Gambling is a vice? I don't think you do."

• Grabbing the attention of the evangelical right

  • It's addressed to people who think gambling is a vice or sin

• There is a loser in gambling

  • There is also a winner; it's always the house

• In the casino, most of the participants frequently lose

  • Some participants win big, keeping people hooked

  • The only one who wins is the house.

• Gambling is a vice because you produce no real wealth, 

  • One of us is poorer based on luck

  • There is nothing godly about this

• There is something far worse than gambling 

  • Christians engage in it regularly 

  • This form of gambling has a house, and the house always wins.

• When you vote, you wager your own life and liberties and securities.

  • Cannot recover lost freedoms back from the state through voting

  • You legitimize the beast through voting

29:05 What is voting?

• The state says, "Come along. All of you will lose some liberties, but some of you will have the chance to have less of your liberties taken."

• Fear takes over when people vote

• There are more than two people to choose from

31: 48 What is the state?

• Takes people's liberties

• Has never once shrunk

  • States grow or collapse.

• Taking the chance and succumbing to fear keeps the house growing

  • Yet people vote for candidates they don't like

• The idea of your "civic duties" being to vote is ridiculous

• "Go vote" is a religious mantra

• It doesn't matter to the elites who wins

  • The aura of the legitimacy of the beast improves when people show up to vote

  • Republicans are Democrats 2.0

  • Don't put others in power over your neighbours

36:00 God alone gives liberty 

• Jesus sets us free, not the US

  • There may be some good outcomes from voting

    • God makes good come from evil

• Paul's moral analysis of voting is the reason he doesn't

  • I don't have the right to dominate my neighbour

    • No coercing them to behave the way I want

    • Unlikely to bring more liberty

    • It's still a gamble

• Anarchists joining libertarian parties promote the state

39.00 Why don't Christians just walk away?

• One solution to the problems of government

  • Peacefully walk away

  • Christians should know this and opt out

• The empire is falling and we already have a King

  • Power will corrupt

  • You will lose while growing the state

• If someone is addicted to any addictive substance, they cannot go cold turkey

  • Voting gives a dopamine hit

  • If you feel the need to vote, at least vote for a third party

  • Take other political actions 

• The Libertarian parties will never take over the state

  • Their message is good

• Paul does more good outside of political processes 

  • Being morally consistent with his beliefs

• If anyone was going to change the US system, it would have been Ron Paul

  • You cannot change the mafia from the inside 

  • The point of the mafia is to be the mafia

  • Ron Paul changed awakened people https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/ron-paul-5118.php 

• Voting is a risk; why not simply obey Jesus Christ?

• When Satan tempted Jesus with authority, He didn't rebuke Satan, telling him that the authority was not his to give. Instead, He said, "No, I'm good." https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%204%3A1-11&version=NIV 

• Likewise, Christians should say, "No, I'm good." 

  • rather than seek power

  • Seek Jesus as our King

• The early church writings show:

  • They had no interest in the Roman Empire 

  • Tertullian called the affairs of the state foreign https://quotepark.com/authors/tertullian/quotes-about-the-world/

  • The kingdom of God is a literal Kingdom

  • Their King did not use a sword against Caesar and Pilot 

  • They expanded the kingdom through love, charity, and service

  • From outside the system

• Christians can enrich anarchism with the teachings of Christ

---

Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

66. To Vote or Not to Vote with Stephen of Anarcho-Christian

About this Episode

Stephen is from Anarcho-Christian, our brother-in-Christ podcast. He has spent the last 6 years providing an online presence and community for people like us. He has a way of expressing many viewpoints on a hotly debated topic, so we’ve invited him into our conversation on voting. 

Midterms are fast approaching. As people who serve only one King, we must consider whether we ought to participate in the kingship of others. Is it ever justifiable to participate in choosing laws and rulers for our neighbors? How involved should an anarchist really be in politics? How involved should a Christian be? Is there a difference? Listen for our take on these and other questions relating to the issue.

Episode Timestamps:

1:45 Unbiased

• Not like Fox news

  • “We report; you decide

    • (what we tell you because everything we put out is incredibly biased)”

• Debating this is good, but not on this episode

  • Discuss and let people reach their own conclusions

  • Easier said than done because of strong opinion

    • Christians should have nothing to do with voting

3:07 Facebook page disappeared

• Because they were getting too popular?

  • Facebook didn’t like their message

• Flagged unspecified memes

• No power or tools to fight back

  • Just had to wait

  • Found a workaround

• Bad Roman page is not allowed to boost posts

  • When Craig is drunk, he approves of Nate’s ornery memes

    • Then Craig gets in trouble with

      • Facebook

      • And the show producer

        • Can’t go too far with posts because losing Facebook means losing access to the majority of the fan base

• Don’t want to lose what so much work has gone into

• Having AnarchoChristian back on Facebook takes some of the heat off Bad Roman

8:14 Should anarchists vote?

• Is voting consistent with anarchist philosophy?

• Some people separate Christianity and anarchy

  • Others feel it’s entwined

  • Stephen came to anarchy by growing in his faith

• What’s the intent of voting?

• What are you voting on?

  • Is it federal or is it about your local library?

    • We don’t usually get to vote on community-level decisions

• Some anarchists wind up back in the libertarian party 

  • Saying they’re trying to get a message out

    • Seems inconsistent to be in politics

  • You can reach people within the party without joining the party

• Pulling out of politics almost feels like joining a monastery

  • Away from the evils of the world 

  • Never going back

  • Putting faith entirely on God 

    • Instead of faith in God plus worrying about whether the more evil guy wins the election

    • Good for mental health

• Defensive political action vs action to bring good

• Some people believe they can wield the power to bring about God’s Kingdom

• Maybe it’s a neutral decision

  • Maybe it’s okay to take political action

  • And maybe it’s just as okay not to

19:36 Should Christians get involved in politics?

• Should we peacefully protest everything?

• Even “setting people free” from the slavery of the current political system

  • Is slavery

    • Because they didn’t have a choice

• The motivation to vote is that our country is like a train

  • The 2 current parties are competing to send the train over the cliff faster

  • The libertarian party might at least be able to slow it down

  • Other people would rather let it crash and burn

    • We can rebuild better and faster

    • Why focus on something that is doomed?

    • “Empires fall; let it burn” - Craig

• Ron Paul actually did make a difference with his presidential campaign

  • He got involved to get a message out

  • Converted a good number of people to libertarianism

    • Directly and by starting a chain of influence

  • Got them involved with each other

  • Many have since converted to anarchism

  • Most normies will listen to a political candidate before a random dude’s libertarian podcast

• But he also proved that the mafia cannot be changed from the inside

  • Why should anarchists try to change it by voting or involvement when even the great Ron Paul failed?

  • The Republican party blocked him from succeeding

• At this point, 

  • People are frustrated with the government’s response to COVID-19

  • They see the immorality

  • They see the flaws of a 2-party system

  • Inflation is affecting them

  • If someone were to get up and speak to them from a political stage, they might move toward anarchy

29:26 Christian anarchy

• The early church was anarchist

  • So was Jesus

• The word ‘Christian’ has come to imply ‘anarchist’ to Craig

  • Because it’s obviously how we’re supposed to be

  • Voting for someone to rule over your neighbor is not justifiable

    • Jesus said Christians will not lord it over each other

    • We come to serve, not be served

• “As a Christian, what do you think is moral about going and trying to put somebody in power over your neighbor?” - Craig

• We have to understand that people don’t yet understand

  • They don’t grasp the monopoly on violence or voluntarism

  • They don’t speak our language or know what we’re referring to

• We must look at a person’s heart motive

  • Are they demanding a king to replace God?

    • Many Trump supporters are definitely putting their faith in their president

    • Republican is synonymous with Christian

    • People put way too much of their identity in politics 

      • And mix it with religion

  • If, in 1 Samuel, God says choosing a king is rejecting Me

    • Is voting for rulers now rejecting God?

    • Is it a sin to vote?

  • Is a person voting defensively or in an attempt to change the world for good?

    • Their focus would seem to not be on getting a king

• Defensive voting

  • Asking permission to not be taxed

  • Still gives the ruler power

• Empires fall

  • The US empire is going down

    • There’s no point in trying to save it

  • We’re creating money out of thin air, constantly increasing our debt

  • People get freaked out by outside forces coming to harm us

    • We’re already being harmed

• Inflation

  • Didn’t start with Biden

  • Trump pumped $2 trillion of fake money into our economy

  • People generally blame the government

    • But they don’t know what they’ve specifically done to cause the problem

    • It’s the printing of money without anything behind it

    • It’s taxes and tariffs

  • Propaganda

    • Inflation is good!

    • It’s all Putin’s fault!

    • Nobody could have seen this coming!

  • Anarchists are generally more aware of what is actually happening

• 2-party system

  • Taught, “We have to beat these guys cuz they’re the worst.”

    • Pick the lesser of 2 evils

  • People want to get someone perfect in who will 

    • Shut down the Department of Education or the CIA

    • Fulfill their dreams

    • Make everything better

    • The system will never allow them to win

  • Small changes have occurred

    • But nothing that will stop the train

• 50% of the country doesn’t vote

  • We’re halfway there!

  • People get nervous

    • If we stop, then our enemy will win the election

      • So, maybe if we all jump to the third party, we can beat them all

      • And maybe we can use the system to tackle local issues

• All politicians will lie or make exceptions at some point

  • Power corrupts

  • Even Ron Paul voted us into war

  • People might get into politics with good intentions

    • But when you’ve joined the mafia, you’re part of the mafia

    • Unrelated projects slipped into bills

  • Same with cops

    • Gotta make compromises to avoid getting fired

  • One could go in with the intent of causing a ruckus and not care about re-election

    • But it’s unlikely

    • And what kind of difference could it really make?

49:48 Roe v Wade and other big decisions

• So many people are celebrating

• It feels nefarious

• Government promises of good

  • Almost always have something bad attached

  • Even if it really is good for one group

    • It hurts someone else

    • Or hurts everyone in a different realm of life

• Printing money seems great

  • Until a year later when inflation skyrockets

53:26 Just keep following Jesus

• “Christ set us free, not the United States of America.” - Craig

• He has our best interest at heart

  • Guaranteed, the state does not

---

Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

46. Who is your God? with ian minielly

Former Green Beret Ian Minielly joins us in this episode to talk about Christians and the military. Ian joined the army after college because he didn’t have a better direction for his life. After many years, he became a Christian and chose not to reenlist. Ian now serves as a Southern Baptist Pastor and has written several books about different issues, and encourages young Southern Baptist church kids not to join the military.

As Christians, we are called to love, not kill. Ian has seen firsthand how the work our military does is not accomplishing any good; it is harming innocent people -- both the foreign nationals and the US soldiers. He is a Southern Baptist pastor now and works to change people’s perspective on the state and how it relates to Jesus and the church.

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Timestamps:

2:50 How Ian got here

•   Didn’t like the life timeline presented to him

  • Career, 2 marriages, retirement, pain, death

  • So, he joined the army

    • Infantry → Green Beret

    • Found Jesus

      • Told Him, “If my unit doesn’t kill a soul this deployment, I will not re-enlist.”

        • They didn’t kill a soul.

      • Went to seminary (for free)

      • Now in full-time ministry

8:50 War

• “What we're doing has nothing to do with what Jesus asked us to do… He didn't ask us, he commanded us to love our neighbor. That includes not killing them, I would suppose, right?” -Craig

• What the military does overseas has nothing to do with Jesus

  • In fact, they command you to not share Him with anyone while you’re deployed

    • So, Ian left a box of sermon tapes with a local contact at the end of one deployment

15:42 Guns

• Passivism

• Craig bought a gun to shoot intruders, but now, only shoots recreationally

  • “That’s not an invitation for anybody to come and give me any trouble. I’ll give you a hug. I’m not gonna shoot you, but I’ll give you a hug.” - Craig

• Ian is a militant pacifist

  • “I'm not going to kick in your door and shoot you, but I might shoot you if you kick mine in.” - Ian

    • Unless you’re just stealing

• Argument: I’m being violent toward my family members if I let someone else attack them

  • “If somebody comes to try and mess with my cats, we're going to have a problem. I'm not gonna shoot you, but we're gonna wrestle.” - Craig

  • You can harm someone without killing them

    • Martial arts

    • Break their arm

    • Stop them from harming others, but do not kill

21:03 The Violence of Government

• Love your neighbor

  • It’s not loving to put somebody bad in charge of them

    • US government is repeatedly guilty of mass murderer

    • Everyone thinks their side is the lesser of two evils

      • They’re both evil.

22:27 Jesus is the Epitome of Everything a Bad Roman Wants to Be

• “When the Messiah shows up and he is nothing like what they are looking for, they totally miss him because they’re looking for majesty and a big white horse and a crown and a sword. And he shows up wearing flip flops and a robe and saying, ‘Love your neighbor.’” -Ian

• 5 Controversies

  • 22:45 1. Jesus forgives and heals a lame man (Mark 2:1-12)

    • Only God has the authority to forgive sins

      • He proved He had the authority by healing

        • If Jesus is God, that means He’s the Messiah

          • If He’s the Messiah, that means He wasn’t there to conquer and give the Jews power

          • He was giving the Kingdom to the lowly

          • His goal was not to glorify the religious leaders

          • American Christians would gladly crucify Him today, just as the Jews did then

  • 26:43 Sidetrack: Do we love our neighbors?

    • We hear that preached all the time, but has it actually clicked?

    • Do even love Jesus?

    •  We love Jesus as if he in the state are equal partners

      • We've lost our first love

    • Church attendance and baptism numbers are low

    • Most pastors are thrilled to have our troops deployed

      •  Ian is a unicorn

  • 28:13 2. Jesus associates with sinners (Mark 2:13-17)

    • Pharisees wonder if a righteous man can do that because he’d get soiled

      • Christians today act the same way

        • Churches rejecting gay people

      • Jesus hung out with

        • Gay people

        • Prostitutes

        • Druggies

    • Where can we hear the Word of God preached without hate?

    • What people do is none of my business. I've been instructed to love 

    • Much of the church outside the Jewish community started out practicing homosexuality as part of their religious life

      • If the church had always blocked out gay people from entering, there would not be a church today

    • Southern Baptist churches would not perform a gay wedding, but they welcome anyone of any lifestyle in the door

      • If they're not allowed in the church to hear the Word, how are they going to find Jesus?

      • The Pharisees kept those people away

        • Their power depended on division

          • They had to make the distinction that they were better than others

          • Very little faith involved

        • Jesus ate with them

          • They heard His message because He saw them

    • Another example: Woman caught in adultery (John 8:1-11)

      • Pharisees test Jesus

        • The Law says to stone her to death

        • Jesus asks whoever has never sinned to throw the first stone

          • They all walk away

        • He tells the lady she’s forgiven and to stop sinning

          • Clean slate

          • Even when we do it again, we get another clean slate and encouragement to try again

          • He forgives every single type of sin

          • Other people’s sins are none of our business

  • 37:30 3. Jesus’ disciples aren’t fasting (Mark 2:18-22)

    • Pharisees point it out so people will see Him as a bad Jew

    • Fasting was a very visible practice

      • Makes one look righteous

    • Jesus says they’re not fasting because He is with them

      • They’ll fast when He leaves

      • We’re in a fast from Jesus, waiting for His return

  • 40:00 4. Keeping the Sabbath (Mark 2:23-28)

    • Pharisees tried to make Jesus look unworthy because He and His followers weren't keeping the Sabbath rules

    • Jesus showed them at the Sabbath is a gift to man, not about rule-following

    • They had taken God's rules and elevated them above God

      • The Sabbath is meant to help us grow closer to God

  • 41:25 5. Doing good on the Sabbath (Mark 3:1-6)

    • Jesus healed the man with the crippled hand

      • Violated the regulations

    • It's always the right time to do good

      • You don't take a Sabbath from doing good

      • It's never time to do wrong

  • Making the world a better place is simple: just love each other

43:27 Churches are empty because we’ve made the state the highest god

• God gets relegated to Sundays and maybe Wednesdays

• Nobody wants to believe in Somebody that we don’t actually believe in

• Faithfulness to God almost always means we won't be faithful to the government

• We essentially have a national church because we back up everything the United States government does

  • People can't see (or won't admit) that everything it does is evil

  • They support the troops

• The five controversies basically boil down to this: Where do you put the state/your governing authority and where do you put God?

45:53 Connection between church and military

• Southern Baptist churches are the number one biggest supporter of the military

  • They believe it honorable to send their kids to fight overseas

  •  Why are they the strongest supporters? 

    • What are they hearing in Sunday School? 

    • What is going wrong with the way we pray and preach?

    • Why do they want to send their kids over to fight people who don't even want to fight us?

• If only Air Force planes dropped Bibles instead of bombs

• Helping kids decide not to join the military

  • Only one Ian talked to still signed up

  • Telling them the statistics of divorces, alcoholism, and infidelity among military spouses

  • Proving that our governments never been right about anything, and killing the people they tell you to won't accomplish anything

    •  Where did we get the right to go into another country and kill people?

51:01 Who are we fighting?

• Afghani villagers came across American troops and thought they must be Russian. They didn't know anything about 9-11 or even where New York was

  • Do the Christians supporting these wars understand that the people in these countries have nothing to do with what we’re supposedly fighting about?

    • We're destroying their land, and they've never even heard of us

  • Our troops traveled around and millions of dollars of equipment with guns pointing in all directions from their tanks

    • The only people around were unarmed villagers wearing flip-flops and simple robes who just wanted to sit around and enjoy life

  • Many suicide bombers were coerced into doing it

    •  Oftentimes, their families were tied up at gunpoint

    • OR They are angry because the Americans killed their family, so they are getting revenge

• God is everywhere in Afghanistan

  •  but will those people ever accept Jesus since He's associated with our country?

  •  Will they ever listen to an evangelist?

57:35 DHS is a terrible part of the government

• Carlos Morales used to work for CPS; now speaks against them

  • Legally Kidnapped book

• Ian’s book about his foster daughter

59:15 Ian’s other books

• Revoked Consent

  • Story about fighting the government and winning

• The Genetic God

  • Story about people finding evidence for God in their DNA

• Train, Deploy, and Report

  • Book on evangelism