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16. Patrick Carroll - If You Vote You Can’t Complain

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In this episode, Craig speaks with Patrick Carroll about his article If You Vote You Can’t Complain. Their discussion explores topics on suffrage in Canada and the United States and possible answers to why voters seem to be growing more and more apathetic to participating in the democratic system. 

They explore the problem with “defensive voting” and how it may not be disrespectful to the past to refrain from casting your ballot every 2-4 years. In the midst of a Presidential Election in the US, this episode is an offering to listeners to consider what a vote is, who gives you that right, and who’s Kingdom you may be endorsing by participating in a system that upholds its power through force. 

Timestamps and links to start learning more:

01:10 Who is Patrick Carroll

04:05 What prompted Patrick to write his article “You Can’t Complain if You Vote”

  • Response to you can’t complain if you don’t vote

  • Voting as complicity in system you are complaining about

06:26 Explaining low voter turnout

11:29 Let’s (anarchist/voluntaryist) talk to the nonvoters

15:54 Speaking to individuals vs. groups

19:45 Relationship between individualism/collectivism and fallacy of representation

23:38 Justin explains Canada’s political systems and issues he has seen in elections

26:10 Popular vote vs. who actually wins in US politics 

27:55 Response to “why you should vote” i.e. people have died for the vote, disrespect to suffrage movements, ect.   

  • Is it disrespectful to ask politicians to rule over your neighbors?

  • Is voting important?

  • Positive rights vs. negative rights

    • Positive rights means someone else has a corresponding responsibility (similar to entitlement)

    • Negative implies someone has to not do something e.g. Freedom of Speech means others have to not interfere with your speech

  • The “right” to vote only exist in context of the state

    • Is right to have say in how you are ruled

  • Misnomer to call voting a right

    • The “right” to vote only exist in context of the state

      • Can be seen as right to have say in how you are ruled

  • Respecting people starts by not ruling over people, which, on the contrary, voting supports

33:11 Is America following the constitution? 

37:07 Voting and Slavery

  • Larken Rose video 

  • “Asking your master implies it is their choice...legitimizing their role as master”

  • Being principled is most pragmatic approach, “defensive voting” compromise principles

  • Abolitionist movement was uncompromising

    • Anything less than total abolition of slavery was not sufficient

  • Being ruthlessly principled is the way of Jesus

    • Example: He could have gone on military conquest and overthrown the Romans

  • Lysander Spooner on defensive voting 

41:27 We need to stop pretending

  • Can a broken system fix itself?

    • Does it have an interest to?

  • What message does showing up at the poles send?

 44:30 Patrick’s Plugs