Philosophy

71. Agorism is Practical Anarchy with Lily Forester

About this Episode

Lily Forester, of HBO’s “The Anarchists” documentary series fame, joins Craig to discuss freedom, anarchism, and agorism. Lily is a trailblazer of agorist activity, putting anarchist and agorist ideas into action in her own life.  She was a part of the Fireweed Universe City anarchist community in Detroit until her and her boyfriend John moved to Mexico and joined the Anarchapulco community. She ran a restaurant and farm from her house until John was killed in a shooting. These days she keeps herself busy training in circus arts, crocheting custom orders, blogging, building websites, and working with Anarchapulco and Anarchoforko.  

Craig and Lily discuss their frustrations with self-proclaimed anarchists who don’t act like anarchists. Both the ones that go back to the Libertarian Party to try to work through the state and the ones who abuse the title, complicating explanations of anarchist philosophy. Craig and Lily define the term agorist and discuss where it overlaps with anarchist as well as the differences. Where anarchists may shy away agorists tend to follow through on anarchist activities. They are the ones asking themselves how far they are willing to go and using their skills to build healthy communities of voluntary exchanges. Lily gives some advice on becoming an agorist, how to find an agorist community and using crypto-currency.

Where to find Lily:

Episode Timestamps:

5:15 – Who is Lily Forester?

  • Girl with a fake name

    • Arrested for cannabis related stuff in Ohio

  • Raised by agorists: practical anarchists

    • Mother was actively a fugitive in Ohio

  • On the fringe of the Anarchapulco community

  • Started Anarchoforko

  • Had a restaurant and farm at her house

  • Boyfriend murdered in 2019

  • Trains in circus arts

  • Features in “The Anarchists” documentary

7:58 – Frustrated with anarchists

  • Why do anarchists go back to working with libertarian parties?

    • Anarchists should be principled

      • When they aren’t, Craig is disappointed

      • This drew him to Lily’s words in The Anarchists

    • Anarchapulco in The Anarchists seemed to be all about partying

  • Shed the term anarchist for agorist

  • Fireweed Universe-City in Detroit is the most truly anarchist community Lily has lived in

    • Fixing abandoned houses

    • Growing food

    • Community garden

  • Agorists are practicing anarchy

    • Changing their lives

    • Unlicensed businesses

  • Winters in Detroit were hard, so Anarchapulco was appealing

  • Anarchists don’t all live their stated philosophy

    • When times get hard, some go back to the state

      • Or run for President

    • Some use the label to treat people poorly

      • “Don’t tell me what to do, I’m an anarchist.”

      • Manipulating people

  • Anarchists that believe the ideas and try to practice have overlap with agorists

    • They will face hardship

18:04 – Anarchists paying taxes

  • Anarchists do not “pay taxes” they are forcefully taken

    • It’s self-defence

    • It’s not voluntary

    • No one wants to live in a cage

  • Anarchists who run for office are not anarchists

  • Elections are like the movie “Groundhog Day”

  • Lily campaigned for Ron Paul

    • Became an anarchist after he failed

    • Craig was booing him off stage 

  • It’s hard to take anarchists seriously when they discus changing laws or using the libertarian party

  • What Donald Trump calls anarchy is not anarchy

  • Explaining the actions of some self-proclaimed anarchists is not easy

    • Complicates explanations of anarchy

  • Agorists tend to shy away from calling themselves anarchists for this reason

  • Agorists build healthy communities through:

    • Using their skills

    • Voluntary interactions

  • Agorists need to ask themselves:

    • What laws are they willing to break?

    • How far are they willing to test the IRS?

  • Anarchists say stop paying taxes and don’t vote

    • Don’t always follow-up

  • The mark of a good community is how they respond to crisis

    • When John was killed agorists were there for Lily

    • Anarchopulco failed

      • They were a bunch of broken people calling themselves anarchists

      • They couldn’t get along with each other

    • When the police were called they took everything from Lily

      • Her dogs

      • Solar panels

      • Vehicles

    • In the US police conduct “Asset Forfeiture” and do the same

  • Barry Cooper ex-cop fled the US and founded NeverGetBusted

  • Anarchists are suspicious of police officers

33:04 – How to become an agorist

  • Replace goods and services with people who are agorists

  • Do what makes you happy, produce things

    • Accept payments in crypto currency

  • Buy from people who are building the counterculture

  • Cryptocurrency

    • Monero

    • Find ways to transact without having to turn it into fiat currencies

    • A tool to send and receive money that may hide your identity

    • Behaves like a regular market with booms and busts

    • Is unregulatable

      • Decentralised and worldwide

    • A stepping stone to seeing the state collapse

    • The IRS can’t see it

    • Buying and selling services with agorists

    • Crypto wallets are untraceable with a VPN

    • Some businesses accept it

    • There is a whole community building and using it

44:56 – Spirituality

  • Psychedelics have been a part of Lily’s journey

  • Prayer works

  • No face or name or doctrine or worship

    • There is something out there who helps good people

    • People personify the unexplainable

    • Something is keeping Lily out of jail

  • The world is not completely random

  • Human Design

    • Focus on being good people

    • Doing things in ways that use your best modes

    • Makes life easier

  • A taro reading suggested a female lawyer would help and then one contacted her

  • Jesus said to love your neighbor and love your enemy

  • Lily got involved with Anarchopulco and they went from enemy to friend

    • Building what she wants to see

    • Now there are more people from various religious camps now

    • No more drunken parties, like in the past

    • Bringing people together who are actually doing stuff

    • More families, chill people, and business people come now

55:37 – Food

  • Lily’s guac recipe

  • Mexican guac is just avocado, cilantro, white onion, jalapeno, salt, and lime

    • Tastes cheesy

  • Texans believe beans don’t belong in chili

  • White people are the worst

  • Hot dogs go on every food in Acapulco

1:02:35 – Close the interview


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25. Romans 13 & Stateless Civil Governance with Gregory Baus

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Is an elected official’s authority automatically ordained by God? What is Jesus referring to when he says “render unto Caesar what is Caesar's”? In the episode, Gregory Baus delves into Romans 13 and stateless civil governance. 

Are Christians required by God to submit to the governing authorities, even when they are tyrannical or immoral? Are all elected officials ordained by God? Is “render to Caesar” referring to a Biblical requirement for Christians to pay taxes? All of the questions and more are answered in this episode. Craig and Gregory also discuss their transition into anarchism and Gregory’s nomadic lifestyle, along with touching on reformed theology and how that affects an anarchist interpretation of Romans 13. 

Timestamps & starting points for further exploration:

1:50 Gregory’s background 

  • Baltimore

  • Munich

  • Covenant College

  • Redeemer University

  • teaching English overseas

7:30 Christian Philosophy 

11:15 Transition to anarchism

28:45 Proper understanding of individualism within anarchism

31:45 Romans 13  and Stateless Civil Governance: A Reformed View by Gregory’s Baus

45:25 Nomadic Lifestyle 

  • overseas during middle school 

  • Japan

  • California 

  • Canada

  • Netherlands

  • Cambodia 

  • Beijing 

  • Budapest 

49:00 Dave Ramsey

49:45 Gregory’s plugs