Matthew 22

156. Are Rights from God or Government? with Cal Robbins

We use the word freedom so often that it has almost lost its shape. It can mean safety. It can mean privacy. It can mean prosperity. It can mean “leave me alone.” It can also mean “let my side win.”

 In America, freedom is one of those words everybody loves and almost nobody defines.That is why this episode matters. 

Craig opens with the real question right away: does liberty come from government, or does it come from our Creator? And if liberty is a gift from God, then we do not get to talk about it like the state hands it out, manages it, limits it, or takes credit for it. We have to ask a deeper question: what does liberty look like when Jesus, not Caesar, is Lord?

Defining Rightful Liberty

That is where Cal Robbins takes us. He goes back to Thomas Jefferson’s 1819 response to Isaac Tiffany, where Jefferson says the word liberty has been used so many different ways that it no longer gives a clear meaning to the mind. So Jefferson makes a distinction. There is liberty in the broad sense, which Cal treats as freedom, the unobstructed action of our own will. But then there is rightful liberty: the unobstructed action of our own will within the limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others.

That is the thread that holds this whole episode together. Not freedom without limits. Not control dressed up as order. Rightful liberty.

That distinction matters because it exposes the lie at the center of so much of our politics and even so much of our faith talk. We say we want liberty, but what we often want is permission for ourselves and limits for other people. We want freedom when it protects our comfort, then law when other people make us nervous. We want rights when we are talking about our tribe, then rules when we are talking about strangers. Rightful liberty ruins that game. It says the rights I claim for myself belong to my neighbor too.

Equal Rights And The Image Of God

There is a reason this conversation feels heavier than a normal political discussion. It is not just asking whether a system works. It is asking whether we have learned to see other people rightly.

Cal says that once he began to understand rightful liberty, he started to feel sympathy, empathy, even pity where he once might have felt anger or contempt. He says it changed the way he saw people. More than that, he says it brought him back to the teachings of Jesus. He began to see that rightful liberty was not just a political idea but something deeply tied to Christ, to free will, and to the straight and narrow path.

Craig picks up that thread by bringing in Galatians 5:1 and asking whether freedom in Christ might also mean freedom from slavery in a broader sense, even freedom from statism. That move keeps the whole episode from collapsing into civics. This is not a lecture on founding language. It is a wrestling match over whether the liberty we talk about in public life actually matches the freedom Christ calls us into.

If Christ sets people free, why are Christians still so eager to hand themselves over to rulers? Why are we so quick to trust systems of force, systems of control, systems that claim power over image-bearers made by God?

When Liberty Gets Tested

And that is where the episode gets sharp.

Because rightful liberty is not left floating in theory. It gets tested. Slavery comes up quickly, and Craig is blunt: he does not care whether slavery was legal, because legal does not mean moral. That line becomes a door into one of the hardest and clearest parts of the episode. If a law can bless something as evil as slavery, then Christians cannot pretend the law is the final measure of justice.

That same line of thought runs straight into immigration. Not as a side issue, but as a test of whether we really mean what we say about liberty. Craig points to the border as an imaginary line and asks why crossing it suddenly makes a human being “illegal.” Cal pushes further and says denying people free movement because the state says so is not liberty at all. He calls it a rejection of rightful liberty, a rejection of what God gave.

His logic is simple and hard to get around: if I claim a natural right to move, but deny that same right to somebody else because the government told me to, then I am putting man’s law above God’s gift. In his words, that is rendering unto Caesar what belongs to God.

Caesar, Voting, And The Tyrant’s Will

The same test shows up again when the conversation turns to voting and “render unto Caesar.” Cal says that when we vote to impose rulers on our neighbors, we are once again rendering unto Caesar what belongs to God.

Craig pushes back on the usual statist use of Matthew 22 and asks the harder question: what actually belongs to Caesar? If my life is God-given, if my rights are God-given, if my neighbor’s dignity is God-given, then what exactly are we handing over when we call the state our authority?

That is why Jefferson’s fuller line matters here too. Rightful liberty is not merely action within the law, because law is often but the tyrant’s will. That one sentence should break apart a lot of lazy Christian trust in the state. Christians cannot hide behind legality. We cannot keep saying “it’s the law” as if that settles the matter.

Jesus And The Shape Of True Liberty

What keeps this from turning into a cold political argument is that it keeps coming back to Jesus.

Cal says outright that rightful liberty became, for him, almost synonymous with Christ. He says Jesus was an excellent example of how to live in rightful liberty. That is not a throwaway line. It is the heart of the whole episode.

Jesus never forced people into discipleship. He never used power the way rulers do. He never treated people as objects to manage. He told the truth, loved His neighbor, and refused the kingdoms of the world when they were offered to Him. Rightful liberty, as this episode describes it, is free will exercised in the light of God and in the presence of neighbors who bear the same dignity we do.

That is why Cal can connect rightful liberty to Christ, free will, and even the path toward salvation. It is not just about politics. It is about what kind of people we are becoming.

The Church Must Tell The Truth Again

Craig also presses on the witness of the Church, especially the cruelty so often seen online from people who claim Christ. That part matters because the failure here is not just political confusion. It is spiritual contradiction.

If we say “No King but Christ,” but still crave rulers, still cheer domination, still use fear as our moral compass, then what are we really confessing? Rightful liberty does not just expose bad policy. It exposes a damaged discipleship that keeps trusting Caesar to do what only love, truth, and self-government under God can do.

By the end, the episode lands in a place that is both simple and demanding. Rightful liberty is the proper exercise of free will under God. It is not limitless freedom. It is freedom with moral shape. It is the refusal to violate the equal rights of others. It is liberty disciplined by love.

That is why Craig can boil the whole thing down to a plain phrase: don’t hurt people, don’t take their stuff. Crude maybe, but clear. And clarity is hard to come by in a world where we are constantly told that coercion is compassion, legality is morality, and empire is order.

“No King but Christ” means more here than a slogan against nationalism. It means no one gets to claim ownership over what God already gave. Not the president. Not the court. Not the border. Not the ballot. Not the church when it acts like an arm of the state.

Connect with Cal Robbins

Highlights & Takeaways

  • Rightful liberty is not doing whatever we want.

  • Rightful liberty means acting within the equal rights of others.

  • Rights come from God, not government.

  • Legal does not mean moral.

  • Borders, ballots, and rulers fail the test when they violate God-given dignity.

  • Cal connects rightful liberty to Christ, free will, and the straight and narrow path.

  • Jefferson’s warning still stands: law can become the tyrant’s will.
    “No King but Christ” means we stop giving Caesar credit for gifts that came from God.

Listen & Reflect

Listen for how early the episode defines rightful liberty. Everything else builds from that one distinction.

Reflect: Where do we call something freedom when we really mean control? Where do we demand rights for ourselves that we deny to others?

Read: Galatians 5:1, Matthew 22:15–22, and 1 Samuel 8. Then hold them next to Jefferson’s definition of rightful liberty and sit with the tension.

Practice:  Galatians 5:1, Matthew 22:15–22, and 1 Samuel 8. Before you defend any law, policy, border, or political habit this week, ask one question: does this honor the equal rights of others, or violate them?

Episode Timestamps:

0:00 Rightful Liberty

  • rights from God, not government

  • Golden Rule

  • Cal Robbins

1:04 Safety Over Freedom

  • people want safety, not liberty

  • state narratives

  • Minnesota shooting, Venezuela

2:20 Cal’s Liberty Journey

  • Ron Paul movement
    pocket Constitution days

  • corruption in the system

3:45 Jefferson’s Definition

6:21 Equal Rights Of Others

8:24 Freedom Vs. Liberty

  • freedom without limits

  • taking your car example

  • limits set by God, not man

  • property rights

9:27 Sympathy And Empathy

  • seeing your neighbor as equal
    compassion grows when statism fades

  • Craig’s old neocon days

11:12 Rightful Liberty And Christ

  • pity instead of hatred

  • free will

  • straight and narrow path

  • Jesus Christ

12:50 Freedom In Christ

14:20 Slavery And Immigration

  • legal doesn’t mean moral

  • imaginary lines and free movement

  • Patrick Henry

  • Lion of Liberty

15:12 Rejecting God’s Gift

  • borders as rejection of rightful liberty

  • natural right to travel

  • liberty as a gift from God

16:45 Image Of God

  • no human becomes less human by law

  • “illegal” people still bear God’s image

  • God’s law over state law

17:30 Slavery Never Really Left

  • chattel slavery, fiscal slavery

  • debt and bondage

  • posterity

  • future generations

18:25 Voting And Coercion

  • ballot box as force

  • imposing rulers on neighbors

  • voting

20:00 Render Unto Caesar

  • what actually belongs to Caesar?

  • rights from God

  • gifts we hand to the state

  • Matthew 22

22:45 War And Repentance

  • blood on our hands

  • owning past support for violence

  • War on Terror

  • Abby Neer

24:07 Unconditional Love

  • love beyond comprehension

  • people go out of their way to hate

  • God is love

  • loving one another

25:15 Broken Christian Witness

  • Christians sounding cruel online

  • witness to the world

  • Church and public life

27:20 One Human Family

  • same tribe

  • equal dignity

  • liberty and neighbor love

30:24 The Golden Rule

  • rightful liberty in practice

  • Reciprocity

  • Jesus

  • Confucius

31:30 Rendering To Caesar What Is God’s

  • liberty handed over to rulers

  • deception dressed as order

  • God-given rights

34:00 Jesus Rejected The Kingdoms

  • worldly power refused
    service over domination

  • temptation of Christ

35:30 Why The World Rejects Us

  • Christians not acting like Christ

  • public witness problem

  • how outsiders see the Church

37:15 Hate Cannot Heal

  • unconditional love vs hatred

  • good and evil

  • what kind of spirit we carry

41:20 No King But Christ

  • Christ alone is worthy to rule

  • brotherhood over domination

  • Kingship of Jesus

43:00 Asking For A King

  • people still want rulers

  • rejecting God’s rule

  • 1 Samuel 8

44:05 What Jesus Never Did

  • never imposed His will

  • coercion vs discipleship

  • WWJD

45:30 The Temptation Of Power

  • Satan offers the kingdoms

  • Jesus refuses state power

  • temptation narrative

47:00 Rights Come From God

  • rights not created by paper

  • Constitution doesn’t grant liberty

  • Creator

  • Declaration language

49:45 Proper Exercise Of Liberty

  • self-restraint

  • rights with limits
    rightful liberty in daily life

53:45 Don’t Hurt People

54:57 The Full Jefferson Quote

  • law is often but the tyrant’s will

  • individual rights

  • Thomas Jefferson

56:30 Patrick Henry and the Anti-Federalists

  • warnings about centralized power

  • Constitution skepticism

  • Patrick Henry

  • anti federalists

57:42 Forensic History

  • back to source documents

  • letters, speeches, original texts

  • Michael Gaddy

  • Republic Broadcasting

58:40 Learn The Real History

  • history you were never taught

  • Substack and classes


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137. Render Unto God: Challenging Church-State Entanglement

Render Unto Caesar: Unmasking the True Meaning Behind Jesus' Words

How many times have we heard the scripture "render unto Caesar" used to defend entanglement with the state? It's a common argument, but one that completely misses the point of Jesus' teaching. In this eye-opening episode of the Bad Roman Podcast, Craig sat down with Zachary Gomez to explore the real meaning behind this often misused scripture and its profound implications for how Christians should view their relationship to earthly governments.

The Trap of Misinterpretation

Zachary kicked off the discussion by highlighting a crucial detail many overlook - the context of Jesus' words:

“They were trying to trap him. And in context, you know, they were people under an oppressive Roman government. While they may have initially thought they were going to receive some benefit from the system, they now came to realize that it wasn't all it was meant to be.”

This context completely changes how we should understand Jesus' response. He wasn't giving a blanket endorsement of paying taxes or submitting to state authority. He was deftly avoiding a trap while making a much deeper point about where our ultimate allegiance should lie.

The Idolatry of Statism

As they dug deeper, Zachary made a powerful observation about the root issue behind misusing this scripture:

“The idolatry of statism is the real reason people say that render unto Caesar meant that we should pay taxes. That false church system has led people astray into this idolatry.”

This cuts to the heart of the matter. When Christians use "render unto Caesar" to justify entanglement with the state, they reveal a fundamental misunderstanding of where their citizenship truly lies. As followers of Christ, our primary allegiance is to His kingdom, not earthly governments.

Reframing Our Understanding

So how should we interpret Jesus' words? Zachary offered this perspective:

“He was saying, is this your God? Are you made in the image of Caesar or in the image of God? So, you know, that's why they went away amazed in some sense because he totally outwitted them.”

Rather than a command to submit to state authority, Jesus was challenging his listeners to examine where their true loyalty lay. He was drawing a stark contrast between the kingdom of God and the kingdoms of this world.

The Gospel as a Political Declaration

One of the most paradigm-shifting insights Zachary shared was about the nature of the gospel itself:

“The word gospel is a political declaration of a conquering king and his kingdom. And the people in Jesus' day would have understood that in their Greek understanding.”

This reframes how we should view the entire message of Jesus. It wasn't just about personal salvation, but about the establishment of an alternative kingdom that stands in opposition to worldly power structures.

Practical Implications

So what does this mean for Christians today? Zachary emphasized the need for a radical reorientation:

“The gospel is an explicitly political message and it does not allow for dual citizenship. Jesus said, you cannot serve two masters.”

This challenges us to seriously examine our entanglement with the state and political systems. Are we truly living as citizens of God's kingdom, or have we compromised by trying to have one foot in each world?

Making the State Obsolete

Perhaps the most revolutionary idea discussed was how Christians could render the state irrelevant through radical obedience to Christ's teachings:

“If Christians would seek the kingdom in exclusivity and do business with one another, trusting in God alone for our welfare, and participating by fulfilling our roles in his kingdom and government, by loving and serving like him, then we make the state obsolete.”

Imagine the transformation that could occur if believers truly embraced this vision! By living out the values of God's kingdom - love, service, generosity - we could create communities that make the coercive power of the state unnecessary.

What We Learned About Kingdom Living

The conversation with Zachary Gomez challenged some deeply ingrained assumptions about how Christians should relate to earthly governments. Here are the key takeaways:

  1. The "render unto Caesar" passage is not a blanket endorsement of state authority, but a challenge to examine our ultimate loyalty.

  2. The gospel itself is a political declaration about the establishment of God's kingdom.

  3. We cannot serve two masters - our citizenship is either in God's kingdom or the kingdoms of this world.

  4. By fully embracing kingdom living, Christians can create communities that make the state obsolete.

  5. This requires a radical reorientation of how we view our role in society and our relationships with others.

Listen to the full episode for an even deeper dive into these transformative ideas. As you do, ask yourself: Am I truly living as a citizen of God's kingdom, or have I compromised by trying to have dual citizenship? The answer to that question could radically change how you engage with the world around you

Connect with Zachary:

Episode Timestamps:

(1:29) Zachary Gomez's Background

  • Originally from Austin, Texas, now in Nashville

  • Theology degree from Oral Roberts University

  • Runs a home maintenance business

(3:41) The Church's Entanglement with the State

  • Contrast between early church and modern church practices

  • Bad Roman Project's focus on recognizing state entanglement as contrary to Jesus' teachings

(5:24) The False Dichotomy of Right and Left Politics

  • Discussion on the similarity of behavior across political spectrums

  • Lack of self-awareness among statists

(7:50) Misinterpretation of Jesus' Teachings

  • Examples of Christians misunderstanding Jesus' stance on law and government

  • Importance of taking Jesus' words seriously

(9:19) Analyzing the "Render unto Caesar" Passage

  • Full context of Matthew 22:15-22

  • Jesus' response as a clever evasion of a trap

(15:03) The Meaning Behind Jesus' Response

  • Coin as a representation of idolatry

  • Jesus challenging the Pharisees' true allegiance

(19:01) Modern Parallels to Caesar Worship

  • Government seen as the source for meeting needs

  • Conflict between serving God and serving the state

(22:42) The True Gospel and Its Political Nature

  • Gospel as a political declaration of Jesus' kingship

  • Incompatibility of dual citizenship in God's kingdom and earthly kingdoms

(28:34) The Solution: Seeking God's Kingdom

  • Living out the true gospel in community

  • Making the state obsolete through Christian love and service

(38:03) The False Church System and Idolatry

  • Dream analogy of the abusive husband as false church

  • Christians' hesitancy to leave familiar but harmful systems

(46:55) Practical Steps for Living Out the Kingdom

  • Importance of meeting neighbors and building community

  • Examples of serving others without expectation of payment

(1:07:28) Conclusion and Resources

  • Leaving Egypt Ministries and other recommended resources

  • Encouragement to live distinctively as Christians


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