142. Stateless Psalms: Songs for Liberty with Ancap Tim

In a world where faith and politics are often tangled together, it’s rare to find conversations that cut through the noise and ask hard questions. That’s exactly what happened in this episode of The Bad Roman Podcast, where Craig sat down with musician and self-proclaimed Christian anarchist, Ancap Tim.

This episode wasn’t just about politics or protest music. It was about peeling back layers of cultural conditioning and asking one bold question: Are we following Christ, or are we just obeying the empire?

From Republican Loyalty to Radical Discipleship

Tim’s story might sound familiar at first. He grew up in a typical evangelical Christian home, voted Republican without question, and even had George W. Bush’s face on his 18th birthday cake. (Yes, really.)

But over time, cracks started to form. As he wrestled with what he believed and why, especially after encountering voices like Ron Paul and Tom Woods, Tim began to question not just politics, but the systems behind them. Eventually, those questions led him to a surprising place: Christian anarchism.

The Power Behind the Flag

One of the most powerful moments in the episode came when Tim broke down how the state claims moral authority:

“When a government is formed and authority is given to this magical force with their magic flag and magic song, they can go and kill people with immunity.”

If you’ve grown up pledging allegiance and voting every election cycle, this might feel uncomfortable. But discomfort isn’t always bad. Tim’s point is clear: the state claims powers that directly contradict Christ’s teachings. And far too often, Christians go along with it.

Challenging the God-and-Country Narrative

In many American churches, patriotism and faith are treated like one and the same. But as Tim pointed out, that pairing can quickly become idolatry:

“Let’s cheer on the war machine every time there’s a war. If you don’t support the military, then you’re not a real Christian almost. They won’t say that, but some would.”

It's worth asking: when churches wave the flag higher than the cross, what message are we sending?

A Return to Early Church Simplicity

At the heart of this conversation is a return to something older and simpler. Tim puts it this way:

“We don’t play with politics. We don’t vote. We don’t do any of that stuff. We just follow Jesus. We already have a king, the best king in the world.”

This isn't about disengaging from the world. It’s about living differently inside of it. Just like the early church, Christian anarchists seek to embody Christ’s kingdom, not prop up Caesar’s.

What Does Christian Anarchism Look Like in Practice?

If this sounds radical, it’s meant to. But it’s also deeply practical. Here are a few takeaways from the episode for anyone curious about living out this perspective:

1. Question authority (even when it wears a cross or waves a flag).

2. Reject violence in all forms, even when it’s sanctioned by the state.

3. Invest in real community through direct action and mutual care.

4. Keep your eyes on the Kingdom by placing Christ above any political allegiance.

Tim’s music, including his album The State’s Just a Mafia, puts these values into sound. From critique to hope, each track carries the same message: there’s a better way, and it starts with Christ alone.

Rethinking Citizenship, One Conversation at a Time

This episode reminded us that Christian anarchism isn’t about chaos or rebellion for rebellion’s sake. It’s about realignment. It's about refusing to confuse empire with righteousness, and choosing to live in a way that reflects Jesus—not just in belief, but in practice.

So here’s the challenge: take a moment and ask yourself what you’ve always believed about faith, politics, and power. Where did those beliefs come from? Who benefits when you hold onto them?

If you're willing to wrestle with those questions, you're in the right place.

🎧 Listen to the full episode to hear the full story, and check out Tim’s music under Ancap Tim on all major streaming platforms.

And remember: sometimes being a good Christian means being a bad Roman.

🤝Connect with Ancap Tim:

• Website: https://ancaptim.crd.co/

• Apple Music

• Spotify

• YouTube

• Amazon Music

• Instagram

• Facebook

• X

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Guest Introduction: Musician Ancap Tim

• Tim's journey to Christian anarchism

• Using music to express political and religious views

(2:06) Tim's Background and Journey

• Raised in a typical evangelical Christian home

• Initially, a die-hard Republican supporter

• Shift in perspective after exposure to Ron Paul's ideas

(5:02) Evolution of Political Views

• Transition from Republican to libertarian thinking

• Disillusionment with the political system and voting

(7:50) Reconciling Christianity and Anarchism

• Influence of Bad Roman Podcast and alternative interpretations of scripture

• Challenging traditional evangelical views on government

(10:27) Conversation with a Baptist Pastor

• Craig's encounter at a farmer's market

• Introducing the concept of "no king but Christ" to traditional church leaders

(12:52) Tim's Musical Journey

• Experience touring with Christian band Avery Road

• Observations on church dynamics and financial struggles in music ministry

(15:15) Critique of Modern Christianity

• Discussion on the corporate nature of some churches

• Importance of genuine Christian community and love

(20:37) Universal Restoration and Doctrinal Differences

• Tim's perspective as a "hopeful universalist"

• Critique of doctrinal arguments within Christianity

(23:56) Tim's New Album: "The State's Just a Mafia"

• Album structure and themes

• Intentional placement of "No King But Christ" as the final track

(36:35) Album Cover Design

• Description of the album artwork

• Use of AI and human artists in the design process

(47:55) Tim's Music Style and Future Plans

• Description of Tim's musical style as a mix of folk, country, and alt-rock

• Potential plans for future albums

(49:34) Where to Find Tim's Music

• Available on major streaming platforms

• Physical copies (CDs and vinyl) available through Elastic Stage

(52:38) Conclusion and Support

• Encouragement to subscribe, rate, and share the podcast

• Information on donations to local charities in Memphis, Tennessee

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141. What Gardening Taught Us About Freedom, Faith, and Community with Corey Ellerbe

What if growing a tomato could change your life?

Okay, maybe that sounds dramatic. But as we learned in our latest episode of The Bad Roman Podcast, planting that first seed might be the beginning of something much deeper, something that touches your spirit, strengthens your community, and helps you step away from systems that don’t serve you.

We sat down with Corey Ellerbe to talk about his gardening journey, how it started, what it’s become, and why it might just be one of the most quietly revolutionary things you can do right now.

From Tomatoes to Food Forests: How It All Started

“I started with just a few tomatoes,” Corey says, “and now I’m dreaming of food forests and agroforestry systems.”

That’s the thing with gardening, it often starts small. A pot of basil on the windowsill. A raised bed in the backyard. Then one day, you’re talking about companion planting, composting, and building systems that can sustain generations.

But Corey’s story is bigger than just a growing love for plants. Like many of us, 2020 shook something loose. The fragility of supply chains, the limits of store shelves, the creeping feeling that we might be more dependent than we want to admit. That was a wake-up call. And gardening became a way to take back a bit of control—and to reconnect with something real.

Why Gardening Matters Right Now

We’re more disconnected from our food than ever. Most of us don’t know where our groceries came from, how they were grown, or what systems were involved in getting them to us. Gardening changes that. It brings you back to your roots—literally and spiritually.

But it also opens up bigger questions:

• What would it look like to produce food locally again?

• How can we depend less on centralized systems that often fail us?

• Can growing food be a form of peaceful resistance?

Corey says yes. And we think he’s onto something.

Key Takeaways from the Conversation

🌱 Start Small—But Start

Corey’s advice for beginners? Don’t try to do everything at once.

“Even if it’s just herbs in a pot,” he says, “that’s a start. And every expert gardener started as a beginner.”

You don’t need land or a greenhouse to begin. Just start with what you’ve got and build from there.

🌾 Gardening as a Quiet Revolution

Gardening doesn’t seem political. But it can be. Choosing to grow your own food instead of buying into industrial ag systems is a step toward independence.

“It’s about rendering the state obsolete through market action,” Corey explains, tying the philosophy back to agorism and voluntaryism. You're not just growing food. You're reclaiming your autonomy.

🤝 Grow Food, Grow Community

One of the most beautiful parts of gardening? It brings people together. Whether you’re trading tomatoes at a local farmers’ market, swapping seeds with neighbors, or helping someone start their first raised bed (these actions build bonds).

“We’re not meant to be totally self-sufficient,” Corey reminds us. “We’re created for community.”

It’s a reminder that self-sufficiency doesn’t have to mean isolation. In fact, the most resilient communities are the ones that grow together.

✝️ Gardening as Worship

For Corey, gardening is also a spiritual practice.

“Watching how everything works together, the soil, the pollinators, the weather, it’s incredible,” he says. “It shows the beauty of God’s design.”

Tending a garden becomes an act of stewardship. It’s a way of caring for creation and slowing down enough to notice the small miracles around us.

Practical Tips for Getting Started

Whether you’re in a city apartment or have a few acres, here’s what Corey suggests:

• Know your zone. It’s not everything, but understanding your climate will help you pick plants that thrive where you are.

• Work with nature. Instead of spraying chemicals, learn about beneficial insects and natural pest control.

• Try stuff. Some things will die. Some will surprise you. Gardening is one big experiment.

• Talk to local gardeners. Your neighbors (and local nurseries) often have the best advice for your area.

Final Thoughts: What Will You Plant?

This conversation reminded us that gardening isn’t just about food. It’s about slowing down, looking around, and choosing to live differently. It’s about getting your hands dirty, yes, but also getting your soul fed.

So whether you’re dreaming of chickens and food forests, or just wondering if you could keep a basil plant alive, this episode is for you.

Here’s how to keep growing:

• 🎧 Listen to the full episode with Corey Ellerbe.

• 📺 Check out Corey’s YouTube channel, Old 37 Homestead, for how-tos and inspiration.

• 🌱 Plant one thing. Just one. And see what grows from there.

Every garden starts with a seed. What will you plant today?

🤝Connect with Corey:

• Old 37 Homestead: Corey Ellerbe's YouTube channel

Episode Timestamps:

(0:44) Gardening and Agrism Discussion

• Importance of self-sufficiency and reduced reliance on the state

• Introduction of guest Corey Ellerbe and his YouTube channel Old 37 Homestead

(1:01) Background on Corey's Gardening Experience

• Living in Central Florida

• Initial interest in gardening as a teenager

• Starting gardening after marriage on an acre of land

(3:38) Craig's Gardening Journey

• Recent start in gardening with pepper plants

• Challenges with bugs and plant care

(6:46) Gardening Advice from Corey

• Working with nature rather than against it

• Importance of natural predators in pest control

• Regional gardening considerations

(13:39) Corey's Gardening Philosophy

• Focus on agroforestry and food forests

• Adapting to Florida's unique climate and soil conditions

(25:04) Gardening as a Way to Subvert the State

• Discussion on self-sufficiency and community building

• Comparison to historical examples like the fall of the USSR

(45:35) Gardening and Relationship with Christ

• Corey's perspective on God's design in nature

• Observations on synergy in natural systems

(54:55) Old 37 Homestead YouTube Channel

• Overview of Corey's approach to content creation

• Focus on real-life gardening experiences and challenges

(1:06:27) Advice for New Gardeners

• Starting small and not overwhelming yourself

• Importance of regional-specific gardening knowledge

(1:15:07) Gardening Zones and Regional Considerations

• Explanation of gardening zones and their significance

• Adapting plants to different climates

(1:19:39) Closing Thoughts

• Encouragement for listeners to explore gardening

• Importance of community and self-sufficiency

Episode Resources:

1. David the Good: Gardening author and blogger specializing in Southeast/Florida gardening

2. freedomcells.org: Website for connecting with like-minded individuals for community building

3. Stefan Verstappen: Survivalism and prepping expert

4. Curtis Stone: Agorist anarchist gardener from West Canada

5. Sal the Agorist (Sal Mayweather): Advocate for using markets to subvert the state

6. USDA Plant Hardiness Zone Map: Tool for determining gardening zones based on zip code

7. Farmer's markets: Suggested as a great place to learn about regional gardening and find local produce

8. Vermicomposting: Method of using worms for composting

9. Agroforestry and food forest systems: Gardening approaches mentioned by Corey

10. Pigeon pea: Plant example given for perennial food production

11. Hatsune Miku: Mentioned as an example of a virtual pop star (tangential to main discussion)

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140. From Fox News to Faith with Patrick Green

Have you ever felt like your political beliefs were holding you back from truly following Christ? Many Christians struggle to reconcile their faith with their allegiance to earthly governments. In this eye-opening episode of the Bad Roman Podcast, host Craig Harguess sits down with Patrick Green to explore his transformative journey from state worship to embracing the radical message of "No King But Christ."

A Tale of Two Kingdoms

Patrick's story is a powerful reminder that we all start somewhere on our spiritual journeys. Like many Americans, he once placed his trust in political solutions and government institutions:

"At my worst, I couldn't wait to get home from work to turn on Sean Hannity and have him tell me how we were going to save America from the evil Democrats. That's just how lost I was at that point in my life."

Does this resonate with you? Many of us have been caught up in the fervor of partisan politics, believing that if we just elect the right people or pass the right laws, everything will be better. But as Patrick discovered, this mindset often leads us away from Christ rather than towards Him.

The Turning Point

For Patrick, several key realizations shattered his faith in earthly governments:

• Reading libertarian authors like Lysander Spooner and Murray Rothbard exposed the true nature of the state.

• Studying the public school system revealed the inherent conflict of interest in state-run education.

• Examining the Pledge of Allegiance through a Biblical lens highlighted its idolatrous nature.

But the most profound shift came through reading Scripture with fresh eyes. Patrick shares:

"When I read 1st Samuel 8 for the first time, I was instantly cured of any and all remnants of worshiping the government in politics. Whatever was left of that idol was completely smashed."

This passage, where the Israelites demand a king despite God's warnings, speaks powerfully to our modern idolatry of the state. It challenges us to examine where we've placed our ultimate allegiance.

Embracing a New Identity

As Patrick's eyes were opened to the truth of "No King But Christ," he experienced a radical transformation:

• He no longer sees political opponents as enemies, but as fellow image-bearers of God.

• He's replacing symbols of state worship (like patriotic tattoos) with reminders of his allegiance to Christ.

• His hope for change is now rooted in the Gospel, not political action.

This shift didn't happen overnight. It took years of patient conversations, personal tragedy, and deep engagement with Scripture. But the result is a faith that's more vibrant, more Christ-centered, and more aligned with the Kingdom of God.

Challenges and Practical Advice

If you're feeling convicted about your own relationship to earthly governments, Patrick's story offers some valuable insights:

1. Be patient with yourself and others. Deconstructing deeply held beliefs takes time.

2. Dive deep into Scripture, especially passages that challenge our assumptions about power and authority.

3. Seek out mentors and resources that can help you navigate this journey.

4. Remember that our ultimate citizenship is in heaven, not any earthly nation.

What We Learned About Following Christ in a Political World

Patrick's testimony is a powerful reminder that Jesus calls us to a radically different kind of kingdom. Here are the key takeaways:

• Our allegiance to Christ should supersede any loyalty to earthly governments or political ideologies.

• The Bible offers a profound critique of human power structures that's as relevant today as it was thousands of years ago.

• True freedom and transformation come from submitting to Christ as our only King, not from political solutions.

Are you ready to examine your own beliefs about faith and politics? I encourage you to listen to the full episode for even more insights. And if you have your own story of moving from state worship to "No King But Christ," we'd love to hear it. Share your thoughts in the comments or reach out to us directly.

Remember, our call is to be in the world but not of it. Let's challenge ourselves to live as citizens of God's kingdom first and foremost, trusting in His sovereignty above all earthly powers.

🤝Connect with Patrick:

• Podcast: Spotify, Apple, more!

• Email: 100foldtestimonies@gmail.com

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Guest Introduction: Patrick Green

• Host of One Hundred-Fold Testimonies podcast

• Focus on Patrick's journey from statism to "no king but Christ" understanding

(0:58) Patrick's Background and Testimony

• Grew up in Catholic Church, attended Catholic schools

• Lukewarm faith and lack of understanding of the gospel message

• Three phases of salvation: breaking down barriers, personal tragedy, receiving the Word

(7:26) Political Idolatry and Awakening

• Patrick's past obsession with politics and government

• Reading libertarian books by Lysander Spooner and Murray Rothbard

• Realizing the true nature of government and the state

(8:28) Overcoming Evolution as a Barrier to Faith

• Impact of Lee Strobel's "The Case for a Creator"

• Discovering scientific support for Christianity

(10:31) Personal Tragedy and Faith Journey

• Experience of multiple miscarriages

• Struggle with anger towards God and feelings of despair

(18:55) Turning to Scripture

• Reading the entire Bible for the first time in 2021

• Impact of 1 Samuel 8 on understanding government and allegiance

(26:37) Lessons from Biblical Parables

• Parable of the laborers in the vineyard

• Softening judgmental attitudes towards others

(38:55) Transformation and New Perspective

• Rejecting political "teams" and embracing fellow humanity

• Understanding deception and seeking truth in Jesus

(41:16) Secular Awakening

• Questioning public school system and government education

• Rethinking the Pledge of Allegiance and national identity

(52:48) Comfort and Government Dependence

• Discussion on people's reluctance to let go of government "care"

• Critique of 24-hour news cycles and political polarization

(56:13) Both Sides of Politics

• Realizing similarities between political parties

• Marketing different brands of politics to divided populace

(59:04) Conclusion and Podcast Information

• Introduction to Patrick's new podcast: 100 Fold Testimonies

• Call for listeners to share their Christian testimonies

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139. Jesus as King: Rediscovering the True Translation of "Christ" with Duncan Palmer and Matt Mouzakis

Jesus the King: Redefining Our Understanding of Christ's Authority

Have you ever considered the profound impact of a single word? In the realm of biblical translation, one word can reshape our entire understanding of Jesus' role in our lives and the world. This episode of the Bad Roman Podcast delves into a revolutionary perspective on how we view Jesus Christ, challenging us to reconsider our approach to faith, politics, and our place in God's kingdom.

The Power of Translation

When we read the Bible, we often take the words at face value, rarely questioning the choices made by translators. But what if a crucial term has been consistently mistranslated, obscuring a fundamental truth about Jesus' identity?

Duncan Palmer, a self-described "Bible curmudgeon," shares a startling revelation:

The word 'Christ' is not even an English word, it's a Greek word. And nobody knows what it means. Very few people out there really know what it means.

This insight opens up a world of misunderstanding that has shaped Christian theology and practice for centuries. The term "Christ," which we often use as a surname for Jesus, actually means "anointed one" or, more precisely, "king."

Reimagining Jesus as King

Imagine if every time you read "Jesus Christ" in the Bible, you instead read "King Jesus" or "Jesus the King." How would this shift your perception of His authority and your relationship to Him?

Matt Mouzakis, co-host of Expedition 44, emphasizes the importance of this perspective:

If we started saying Jesus the King instead of Jesus the Christ, would it change how we approach others when it comes to politics?

This simple change in terminology has the power to revolutionize how Christians engage with the world around them, particularly in the realm of politics and governance.

The Kingdom of God vs. Earthly Kingdoms

One of the most striking implications of recognizing Jesus as King is the stark contrast it draws between His kingdom and the kingdoms of this world. Duncan Palmer puts it bluntly:

Every politician is an antichrist. They are a substitute king. They are replacing Jesus in our minds and hearts.

This challenging statement forces us to reconsider our allegiances and priorities. If Jesus is truly our King, how can we justify pledging allegiance to earthly rulers or placing our hope in political systems?

Matt Mouzakis adds depth to this perspective by referencing the work of political scientist Neel Isaiah:

He outlines three different approaches to Christians in the world: Christianism (essentially Christian nationalism), separationism, and prophetic witness.

The concept of "prophetic witness" emerges as a compelling alternative to both political engagement and complete withdrawal from society. It calls Christians to live in the world while maintaining a distinct identity and message, speaking truth to power from the margins rather than seeking to dominate from the top.

Practical Implications for Christian Living

Recognizing Jesus as King isn't just a theological exercise—it has profound implications for how we live our lives:

1. Redefining allegiance: Our primary loyalty is to Jesus, not to any earthly government or leader.

2. Rethinking political engagement: Instead of trying to "transform" secular institutions, we focus on building God's kingdom through love and service.

3. Embracing a counter-cultural lifestyle: We're called to live differently, embodying the upside-down values of God's kingdom.

4. Speaking prophetically: We have a responsibility to critique unjust systems and point to God's better way.

As Duncan Palmer reminds us:

We don't pledge allegiance to these fakes and substitutes. We pledge our allegiance to Jesus as King. Follow him only as King.

What We Learned About Jesus' Kingship

This episode challenges us to radically reorient our understanding of Jesus and our place in the world. By recognizing Him as our true King, we're called to:

• Question our assumptions about the role of government and our participation in it.

• Reevaluate our translations and interpretations of Scripture.

• Live as ambassadors of God's kingdom, distinct from the systems of this world.

• Speak truth to power from a place of humility and service.

The implications of this shift in perspective are far-reaching and potentially transformative for both individual believers and the church as a whole.

Are you ready to see Jesus in a new light? To embrace His kingship not just in theory, but in practice? The challenge is clear: to live as citizens of God's kingdom first and foremost, allowing that allegiance to shape every aspect of our lives.

To dive deeper into these revolutionary ideas, you can listen to the full episode of the Bad Roman Podcast wherever podcasts are found. And for further exploration, check out Matt Mouzakis's new book, "Principalities, Powers and Allegiances," available on Amazon, which delves into these themes in greater detail.

Let's embrace the radical truth of Jesus' kingship and allow it to transform how we engage with the world around us. After all, as Christians, we are called to follow Christ, not the state. It's time to live that truth boldly.

🤝Connect with OUR Guests:

1. Matt Mouzakis'

• New Book: Principalities, Powers and Allegiances - available on Amazon

  1. Previous Episodes wth Matt:

     • "What about Romans 13?"

     • From Eden to Empire: Deuteronomy 32 & Christ’s Nature with Matt Mouzakis (Part 1)

     • From Eden to Empire: First Peter's Insights (Part 2)

     • From Eden to Empire: Romans 13 Line by Line (Part 3)

     • The Beasts and the Lamb of Revelation: From Eden to Empire (Part 4)

• Expedition 44 podcast:

• Website: expedition44.com

• Co-hosted by Matt Mouzakis and Dr. Will Ryan 

2. Duncan Palmer

• Duncan’s Writings 

• https://peakd.com/a/@creatr/b

• https://ecency.com/a/@creatr/b

• The Curmudgeon's Bible series

• Duncan’s Christian Library series

• Email: duncan@sharefreely.com

• Previous Episodes with Duncan Palmer:

  • Tyrants be Gone with Duncan Palmer

  • Translating the Bible – Is the Greek Right?

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Discussing Jesus as King vs. Christ

• Duncan Palmer and Matt Mouzakis return to explore the meaning of "Christ"

• Consideration of how viewing Jesus as King might change political perspectives

(1:04) Duncan Palmer's return and personal anecdotes

• Craig and Duncan reminisce about Duncan's visit to Memphis

• Discussion of Craig's homemade salsa and its varying heat levels

(3:05) Matt Mouzakis’s return and book announcement

• Matt's new book "Principalities, Powers and Allegiances" is introduced

• Book's success on Amazon and forward by Brian Zahn

(7:45) Greek translation issues and Bible interpretation

• Duncan's frustration with modern Bible translations

• Importance of understanding historical context in Bible interpretation

(13:22) Duncan's epiphany about the word "Christ"

• Realization that "Christ" means "King" in Greek

• Impact of translating "Christ" as "King" in Bible reading

(19:41) Antichrist as replacement for Christ

• Discussion of the Greek prefix "anti" meaning replacement or substitute

• Every politician as an "antichrist" by replacing Jesus as king

(22:58) Personal experiences with "King Jesus" terminology

• Matt shares stories of explaining "Christ" meaning "King" to others

• Challenges faced when emphasizing Jesus as King in church settings

(50:20) Exploring the concept of Jesus as King

• Duncan and Matt discuss the implications of viewing Jesus as King

• Critique of Christian nationalism and hierarchical church structures

(1:04:43) The church as God's method of ruling

• Matt explains how God rules through spiritual gifts, not hierarchy

• Comparison to body parts working together without hierarchy

(1:14:26) Call to recognize Jesus as the true King

• Duncan emphasizes Jesus' right to rule as Creator

• Encouragement to pledge allegiance to Jesus, not earthly rulers

(1:19:40) Closing thoughts and resource recommendations

• Matt and Duncan share final reflections on Jesus as King

• Promotion of Expedition 44 podcast and Duncan's writings

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138. The Anatomy of the Statist: Unmasking the Mindset Behind Government Support with Patrick Carroll

Ever wondered why some people cling so tightly to the idea of government, even when faced with its glaring flaws? In this episode of the Bad Roman Podcast, we dive deep into the psychology of statism with Patrick Carroll, a brilliant thinker and writer who's been challenging the status quo for years.

Carroll's insights are like a splash of cold water to the face of conventional wisdom. He doesn't just critique government supporters – he dissects their motivations with surgical precision. And trust us, what he reveals will make you question everything you thought you knew about politics and society.

The Statist's Playbook: 10 Characteristics You Need to Know

Carroll breaks down the statist mindset into 10 distinct characteristics. It's like he's giving us a field guide to spot government supporters in the wild. But here's the kicker – it's not about judging them. It's about understanding why they think the way they do, so we can have more productive conversations and maybe, just maybe, change some minds.

1. The Humanitarian: The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions

You know that friend who's always talking about how we need more government programs to help the poor? That's the humanitarian statist. Their heart's in the right place, but their solution is all wrong.

Carroll nails it when he says:

"The humanitarian impulse is great. Obviously, I also care about helping people. But I think it's important when we're trying to address why someone is pro-government to wrestle with the fact that they have a really compelling reason in their mind."

Here's the thing – we all want to help people. But using government force to do it? That's like trying to perform surgery with a sledgehammer. It might get the job done, but at what cost?

2. The Egalitarian: When Equality Becomes Tyranny

Ever heard someone say, "It's not fair that some people have so much more than others"? That's the egalitarian statist talking. They see inequality as inherently unjust and think the government should level the playing field.

But as Carroll points out:

"Even if we agree that maybe there's some value in creating a certain amount of equality in society, is that something that we should be coercing?"

It's a tough pill to swallow, but sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. Forced equality often leads to less prosperity for everyone.

3. The Paternalist: Big Brother Knows Best

This one's a doozy. The paternalist statist thinks they know what's best for you better than you do. They're the ones pushing for laws to ban "dangerous" foods or regulate every aspect of your life "for your own good."

Carroll hits the nail on the head:

"It's this very kind of self-righteous attitude of 'I know best, or you know, the government, us and our experts know best and don't worry, we're just going to take care of you.'"

Newsflash: Adults don't need a nanny state. We're capable of making our own decisions, thank you very much.

4. The Special Interest Group Member: Looking Out for Number One

This statist is all about using government power to benefit their group. Whether it's farmers lobbying for subsidies or corporations pushing for regulations that crush their competition, it's all about gaming the system.

Carroll doesn't pull any punches:

"It’s like you're telling me that you're willing to forcibly coerce other people purely so that you can financially benefit. How is that different from a thief going up to a guy in the street and holding a gun and saying, give me your wallet?"

Ouch. But he's not wrong. Using government force to line your own pockets is theft with extra steps.

5. The Risk Mitigator: Safety at Any Cost

Gun control advocates often fall into this category. They're so focused on reducing risk that they're willing to sacrifice freedom in the process.

Carroll offers a brilliant reframe:

"We live in a dangerous world, and that sucks. And definitely, I believe in systems like insurance to mitigate risk. I think mitigating risk is important. But we shouldn't be coercing people into mitigating risks."

Safety is important, but at what point does the cure become worse than the disease?

6. The Utilitarian: The Greatest Good for the Greatest Number?

This statist believes in maximizing social welfare through government intervention. They talk about "market failures" and think the state can fix them.

Carroll's skepticism is spot-on:

"I really question whether we can do any objective kind of social welfare calculations... And so I'm very skeptical of this idea that we can measure social welfare, let alone have the government come in and optimize it."

Even if you could measure social welfare, does that justify using force to achieve it?

7. The Theocrat: Legislating Morality, Putting more “Christians” in Office

Some statists, especially in religious circles, believe it's their duty to use government power to enforce moral or religious values.

Carroll offers a powerful counterargument:

"Is it really Christian to force morality on people? I totally understand the drive, but I would encourage Christians to really study the Bible and look at this."

Forcing virtue at gunpoint isn't virtuous at all.

8. The Resigned Follower: It's Just the Way Things Are

This statist has given up. They might agree with libertarian principles in theory, but they think a voluntary society is impossible.

Carroll's response is inspiring:

"I don't share that pessimism... I think we just need to look at history to have faith in the market."

Just because something hasn't been done yet doesn't mean it's impossible.

9. The Megalomaniac: Power for Power's Sake

Some people just love having power over others. It's a sad reality, but these statists exist.

Carroll's advice is simple:

"I think we just need to gang up on those people and tell them no, like, sorry, you're not going to get your way and you're not going to use us as pawns."

No elaboration needed. Power-hungry individuals have no place in a free society.

10. The Intolerant: The Heart of Statism

This is the core of the statist mentality. All the other characteristics boil down to this:

"At the end of the day, the conclusion is, I am going to be intolerant of you living your life as you see fit. I'm going to force you to comply with my value system and my personal beliefs. And that is something that every statist shares by definition."

It's a harsh truth, but an important one. Statism, at its core, is about forcing others to live according to your values. It's not about left vs. right. It's about whether you're willing to use force to make others live the way you think they should.

What We Learned About the Statist Mindset

This episode is a wake-up call. It challenges us to examine our own beliefs about government and ask some tough questions:

• Are we truly tolerant if we support using force to make others live as we think they should?

• Can we achieve our goals of helping others and creating a better society without resorting to government coercion?

• Are we willing to apply the same moral standards to government actions that we apply to individuals?

The answers might make you uncomfortable. But that discomfort is the first step towards a more consistent and ethical worldview.

Ready to have your mind blown? Listen to the full episode and prepare to see the world in a whole new light. And remember – questioning the status quo isn't just rebellious. It's necessary for a free and just society.

🤝Connect with Patrick:

• Blog

• Facebook Page

• Twitter (X), 

• The Prudent Navigator (website/blog)

• Read Patrick’s Mises Institute Articles

• Read or Listen to The Anatomy of a Statist article

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Patrick Carroll returns to discuss "The Anatomy of the Statist"

• Exploration of the Statist mentality and its challenges

• Previous appearances on episodes 16 and 55

• Episode 16: If You Vote You Can’t Complain

• Episode 55: Is Taxation Slavery?

(0:58) Patrick's recent work and philosophical journey

• Managing editor at Foundation for Economic Education

• Focus on economics, policy, and libertarian philosophy

• Influence of thinkers like Nietzsche, Rothbard, and classical liberals

(4:17) Discussion on Patrick's writing style and approach

• Larken Rose on the Bad Roman

• Episode 83: The Cult of Statism 

• Episode 91: Breaking Down the Jones Plantation

• Episode 134: Immigration and Christian Values: Challenging the Border Fetish Brigade

• Emphasis on direct, matter-of-fact communication

• Importance of consistency in thinking and living out principles

(5:47) The appeal of libertarian philosophy

• Internal consistency and principled approach

• Rejection of exceptions to moral principles

(7:45) Breaking the framing of political conversations

• Libertarianism as a refreshing alternative to left-right dichotomy

• Questioning cultural assumptions about government

(10:37) The Anatomy of the Statist: 10 characteristics

• Humanitarian impulse and its relation to statism

• Egalitarian motivations for government intervention

(17:47) The utilitarian perspective on government

• Market failure arguments and social welfare calculations

• Skepticism towards government optimization of social welfare

(23:17) The theocrat and Christian involvement in politics

• Critique of using government to enforce Christian morality

• Biblical perspective on non-interference and servant leadership

(31:41) The risk mitigator and government regulation

• Gun control as an example of risk mitigation through legislation

• Alternative approaches to risk management without coercion

(53:57) The megalomaniac and power dynamics of government

• Addressing those who seek power for its own sake

• Importance of resisting authoritarian tendencies

(56:24) The heart of the statist: intolerance

• Common thread of compelling others to live by one's values

• Contrast with libertarian principles of live and let live

(59:52) Taxation as theft: beyond metaphor

• Clarifying the libertarian position on taxation

• Ethical implications of equating taxation with common theft

(1:03:43) Free market principles and conservative inconsistencies

• Critique of tariffs and government regulation

• Importance of genuine free market understanding

(1:05:31) Conclusion and resources

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137. Render Unto God: Challenging Church-State Entanglement

Render Unto Caesar: Unmasking the True Meaning Behind Jesus' Words

How many times have we heard the scripture "render unto Caesar" used to defend entanglement with the state? It's a common argument, but one that completely misses the point of Jesus' teaching. In this eye-opening episode of the Bad Roman Podcast, Craig sat down with Zachary Gomez to explore the real meaning behind this often misused scripture and its profound implications for how Christians should view their relationship to earthly governments.

The Trap of Misinterpretation

Zachary kicked off the discussion by highlighting a crucial detail many overlook - the context of Jesus' words:

“They were trying to trap him. And in context, you know, they were people under an oppressive Roman government. While they may have initially thought they were going to receive some benefit from the system, they now came to realize that it wasn't all it was meant to be.”

This context completely changes how we should understand Jesus' response. He wasn't giving a blanket endorsement of paying taxes or submitting to state authority. He was deftly avoiding a trap while making a much deeper point about where our ultimate allegiance should lie.

The Idolatry of Statism

As they dug deeper, Zachary made a powerful observation about the root issue behind misusing this scripture:

“The idolatry of statism is the real reason people say that render unto Caesar meant that we should pay taxes. That false church system has led people astray into this idolatry.”

This cuts to the heart of the matter. When Christians use "render unto Caesar" to justify entanglement with the state, they reveal a fundamental misunderstanding of where their citizenship truly lies. As followers of Christ, our primary allegiance is to His kingdom, not earthly governments.

Reframing Our Understanding

So how should we interpret Jesus' words? Zachary offered this perspective:

“He was saying, is this your God? Are you made in the image of Caesar or in the image of God? So, you know, that's why they went away amazed in some sense because he totally outwitted them.”

Rather than a command to submit to state authority, Jesus was challenging his listeners to examine where their true loyalty lay. He was drawing a stark contrast between the kingdom of God and the kingdoms of this world.

The Gospel as a Political Declaration

One of the most paradigm-shifting insights Zachary shared was about the nature of the gospel itself:

“The word gospel is a political declaration of a conquering king and his kingdom. And the people in Jesus' day would have understood that in their Greek understanding.”

This reframes how we should view the entire message of Jesus. It wasn't just about personal salvation, but about the establishment of an alternative kingdom that stands in opposition to worldly power structures.

Practical Implications

So what does this mean for Christians today? Zachary emphasized the need for a radical reorientation:

“The gospel is an explicitly political message and it does not allow for dual citizenship. Jesus said, you cannot serve two masters.”

This challenges us to seriously examine our entanglement with the state and political systems. Are we truly living as citizens of God's kingdom, or have we compromised by trying to have one foot in each world?

Making the State Obsolete

Perhaps the most revolutionary idea discussed was how Christians could render the state irrelevant through radical obedience to Christ's teachings:

“If Christians would seek the kingdom in exclusivity and do business with one another, trusting in God alone for our welfare, and participating by fulfilling our roles in his kingdom and government, by loving and serving like him, then we make the state obsolete.”

Imagine the transformation that could occur if believers truly embraced this vision! By living out the values of God's kingdom - love, service, generosity - we could create communities that make the coercive power of the state unnecessary.

What We Learned About Kingdom Living

The conversation with Zachary Gomez challenged some deeply ingrained assumptions about how Christians should relate to earthly governments. Here are the key takeaways:

1. The "render unto Caesar" passage is not a blanket endorsement of state authority, but a challenge to examine our ultimate loyalty.

2. The gospel itself is a political declaration about the establishment of God's kingdom.

3. We cannot serve two masters - our citizenship is either in God's kingdom or the kingdoms of this world.

4. By fully embracing kingdom living, Christians can create communities that make the state obsolete.

5. This requires a radical reorientation of how we view our role in society and our relationships with others.

Listen to the full episode for an even deeper dive into these transformative ideas. As you do, ask yourself: Am I truly living as a citizen of God's kingdom, or have I compromised by trying to have dual citizenship? The answer to that question could radically change how you engage with the world around you

Connect with Zachary:

• Abolish Human Archism: Website recommended for further exploration of Christian anarchist ideas.

• Leaving Egypt Ministries: An anarchist Christian page promoting anti-statist gospel messages.

• X: @LeavingEgyptMin

• Website: leavingegyptministries.com

• Zachary Gomez on social media:

• Facebook: Zachary Gomez

• Instagram: @goodnews_zach

Episode Timestamps:

(1:29) Zachary Gomez's Background

• Originally from Austin, Texas, now in Nashville

• Theology degree from Oral Roberts University

• Runs a home maintenance business

(3:41) The Church's Entanglement with the State

• Contrast between early church and modern church practices

• Bad Roman Project's focus on recognizing state entanglement as contrary to Jesus' teachings

(5:24) The False Dichotomy of Right and Left Politics

• Discussion on the similarity of behavior across political spectrums

• Lack of self-awareness among statists

(7:50) Misinterpretation of Jesus' Teachings

• Examples of Christians misunderstanding Jesus' stance on law and government

• Importance of taking Jesus' words seriously

(9:19) Analyzing the "Render unto Caesar" Passage

• Full context of Matthew 22:15-22

• Jesus' response as a clever evasion of a trap

(15:03) The Meaning Behind Jesus' Response

• Coin as a representation of idolatry

• Jesus challenging the Pharisees' true allegiance

(19:01) Modern Parallels to Caesar Worship

• Government seen as the source for meeting needs

• Conflict between serving God and serving the state

(22:42) The True Gospel and Its Political Nature

• Gospel as a political declaration of Jesus' kingship

• Incompatibility of dual citizenship in God's kingdom and earthly kingdoms

(28:34) The Solution: Seeking God's Kingdom

• Living out the true gospel in community

• Making the state obsolete through Christian love and service

(38:03) The False Church System and Idolatry

• Dream analogy of the abusive husband as false church

• Christians' hesitancy to leave familiar but harmful systems

(46:55) Practical Steps for Living Out the Kingdom

• Importance of meeting neighbors and building community

• Examples of serving others without expectation of payment

(1:07:28) Conclusion and Resources

• Leaving Egypt Ministries and other recommended resources

• Encouragement to live distinctively as Christians

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136. Critical Thinking in the Age of Government Control with Jeffrey Hann

The Fallacious Belief in Government: Unmasking the Illusion of State Control

Are you ready to challenge everything you thought you knew about government and freedom? In this eye-opening episode of the Bad Roman Podcast, we dive deep into the heart of statism with author and researcher Jeffrey Hann. His latest book, The Fallacious Belief in Government: Warp Speed Toward Tyranny, exposes the dangerous myths we've been fed about the necessity of state control.

As we unpack the layers of government deception, you'll discover:

• Why critical thinking is deliberately suppressed in public education.

• How psychological operations keep us trapped in a cycle of fear and obedience.

• The true nature of government as a tool of control over the innocent.

• Why voting can't save us from the inevitable march toward tyranny.

• How embracing anarchist principles could be our path to genuine freedom.

Prepare to have your assumptions challenged and your perspective transformed. This isn't just another political discussion – it's a wake-up call for anyone who values true liberty.

The Critical Thinking Crisis

What if our education system is deliberately designed to create "literacy slaves" – people smart enough to work, but not equipped to think critically about the world around them? Jeffrey breaks down how the classical trivium and Prussian education models have shaped generations of minds:

"You have the classical trivium that really creates literacy slaves that are smart enough to work, but not smart enough to think for themselves. The another model that the US picked up was the Prussian education system. The Prussian education system was designed by the Prussians after their military and mercenaries lost against Napoleon. And their parliament decided and determined that it was because soldiers were thinking for themselves."

This systematic suppression of independent thought isn't an accident – it's a feature of the system designed to maintain control. By understanding the three pillars of critical thinking – grammar, logic, and rhetoric – we can begin to break free from this mental prison.

The Psychological Warfare Playbook

Government control goes far beyond the classroom. Jeffrey exposes the insidious world of psychological operations (psyops) used to manipulate public perception and behavior:

"And if you're unaware of that, it just seeps in and it causes a psychological effect so that you struggle at trying to make real informed decisions, making you easier to control and manipulate."

From manufactured crises to carefully crafted narratives, these tactics keep us in a constant state of fear and compliance. By recognizing these strategies, we can start to see through the illusion and reclaim our mental autonomy.

The True Nature of Government

From democracy to tyranny - is it inevitable? Hann walks us through Plato's five regimes and why he thinks we're headed for a fall. 

At its core, Jeffrey argues that government is nothing more than "a tool or action of control over the innocent." This fundamental truth challenges the very foundation of what most people believe about the role of the state in society:

"The true nature of government is tyrannical… just looking at the word government itself, it's a tool or action of control over the innocent. And I always classify that. ‘Over the innocent’ is why it makes it tyrannical because that, if you're being controlled and you haven't committed a crime, created a victim, then your rights are being violated."

This perspective forces us to confront uncomfortable questions about the legitimacy of state power and the true meaning of concepts like "law" and "justice."

The Illusion of Political Solutions

If you're pinning your hopes on the next election to solve society's problems, Jeffrey has a sobering message:

"There's no voting our way out of it. Tyranny is just gonna progress further and further. Trump and Musk are implementing Agenda 2030 and ushering in the Great Reset."

He argues that the political system itself is designed to perpetuate control, regardless of which party or individual is in power. This cycle of tyranny can't be broken through conventional means – it requires a fundamental shift in how we think about governance and freedom.

Embracing Anarchist Principles

So what's the alternative? Jeffrey advocates for a form of anarchism based on voluntary interactions and respect for natural rights:

"Anarchism is a system or practice of no rulers, voluntary action and absence of government over the innocent, based on natural rights, life, freedom and property. That is the, the most succinct definition I can provide of what anarchy is and that there's no middle ground."

This isn't about chaos or disorder – it's about creating systems that respect individual autonomy while allowing for voluntary cooperation. It's a radical reimagining of how society could function without coercive state control.

What We Learned About Freedom and Government

This conversation with Jeffrey Hann challenges us to question our deepest assumptions about the role of government in our lives. By exposing the fallacious belief in state control, we open the door to new possibilities for genuine freedom and voluntary cooperation.

Key takeaways:

• Critical thinking is a skill that can be developed, despite systemic efforts to suppress it.

• Psychological operations are constantly at work to maintain our compliance – awareness is the first step to resistance.

• Government, by its very nature, is a tool of control over the innocent.

• Political solutions within the current system cannot address the fundamental problems of state tyranny.

• Embracing anarchist principles based on voluntary interaction and natural rights offers a path forward.

Are you ready to challenge your beliefs and explore a new vision of freedom? Listen to the full episode for an in-depth exploration of these ideas and practical steps you can take to reclaim your autonomy. Remember, true change begins with how we think about the world around us. It's time to break free from the mental chains of statism and embrace a future of genuine liberty.

Connect with Jeffery:

Get His Books:

• COVID-19: A Short Path to You'll Own Nothing and You'll Be Happy (2023)

• The Fallacious Belief in Government: Warp Speed Toward Tyranny (2025)

Connect with Jeffrey Hann on social:

• X (Twitter): @JeffreyHann

• Instagram: @Jeffrey.A.Hann

• YouTube: JREV Music

Listen to the Music:

• "Fallacious Belief in Government" album on YouTube

• "Militant Anarchist" album on YouTube

• Also available on streaming platforms like Spotify, Apple Music, and Pandora

Explore his Website:

• Journalistic Revolution: journalisticrevolution.com

• Instagram: @journalisticrevolution

Facebook: Journalistic Revolution

Episode Timestamps:

(2:01) Jeffrey's recent projects

• Music production and album releases

• Focus on conveying philosophical beliefs through music

(3:01) Critical thinking and government belief

• Challenges in getting people to question their faith in government

• Importance of critical thinking skills in today's society

(4:30) Personal journey of changing beliefs

• Discomfort in realizing one's previous beliefs were wrong

• Importance of being open to new perspectives

(6:06) Psychological operations and fear

• Discussion on the use of fear by governments

• Historical context of psychological operations

(8:34) Life cycle of government

• Exploration of Plato's five regimes

• Inevitability of tyranny in governmental systems

(20:36) Democracy and its flaws

• Critique of democracy as majority rule

• Discussion on the misuse of the term in modern politics

(25:23) Anarchism and its principles

• Definition and exploration of anarchist philosophy

• Importance of voluntary interactions and absence of rulers

(37:35) Roads argument and government justification

• Common arguments for government necessity

• Critique of government efficiency in infrastructure

(42:05) Hope and the need for societal evolution

• Discussion on the potential for positive change

• Importance of creating content to spread ideas

(47:55) Jeffrey's resources and future projects

• Overview of books, articles, and music

• Upcoming work on plasma cosmology

(49:20) Conclusion and call to action

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135. Navigating Legal Loopholes: Tax-Free Living Explained with Brandon Joe Williams

About this Episode

Think you understand taxes, citizenship, and your legal identity? Think again.

In this mind-bending episode, Craig sits down with legal researcher and educator Brandon Joe Williams to explore the provocative world of legal loopholes, sovereignty, and tax-free living. From squaring off with the Employment Development Department to establishing foreign trusts, Brandon’s personal journey is as unconventional as the legal theories he unpacks.

Together, they dive deep into topics like:

• Why Brandon believes taxation is optional

• How credit cards might actually be tools for generating currency

• Whether you're truly a U.S. citizen—or just think you are

But don’t worry—this isn’t all dense legalese. Brandon blends complex ideas with humor, analogies, and pop culture references that make the fringe feel surprisingly accessible. You’ll hear wild terms like “fleshy currency manufacturing devices” and come away questioning things you’ve always taken for granted.

Whether you’re a legal theory junkie, a freedom-seeker, or simply curious about how deep the legal rabbit hole goes, this episode will challenge your assumptions and expand your perspective on sovereignty, money, and personal power.

Disclaimer: This isn't legal advice. It's a radical exploration of alternative viewpoints that sit at the edge of mainstream understanding. Proceed with curiosity—and maybe a healthy dose of skepticism.

Ready to rethink the system? Press play and prepare to see the legal world like never before.

Connect with Brandon Joe Williams (trademark used with permission):

• Main Website: One Stupid Fuck

• Facebook

• Instagram

• X

• YouTube

• The Nation of Amnesty Coalition

• Brandon’s Law Firm: Williams and WILLIAMS Law Group

• Course: 2.0 Free Contract Killer Course

• Books: Don’t Be a Slave & Love is a Battery

• Brandon’s Step-by-Step Guide

Episode Timestamps:

(00:42) Guest Introduction and Background

• Brandon's experience with the Employment Development Department (EDD)

• Creation of foreign trusts to protect assets

• Development of a platform for legal research and breakthroughs

(02:01) Brandon's Journey into Legal Research

• Landscaping company takeover and EDD issues

• Encounter with fringe legal concepts

• Creation of foreign irrevocable private trusts

(04:05) Brandon's Platform and Research Focus

• Three main areas of research: nationality, citizenship, taxation

• Driving vs. traveling debate

• Money vs. negotiable instruments

(10:59) Taxation and U.S. Citizenship

• Definition of U.S. Citizenship

• 14th Amendment and its implications

• Slaughterhouse Cases and their significance

(25:58) Legal Strategies for Tax Exemption

• Foreign trusts and EIN numbers

• Challenging the concept of U.S. citizenship

• Using affidavits and evidence in legal proceedings

(32:45) The Role of Attorneys in Legal Matters

• Risks of using attorneys at law

• Definition of "client" and "ward of the court"

(37:28) Currency and Negotiable Instruments

• Redefining bills and tickets as cash

• Registered trademarks and legal leverage

(45:48) In-Person Events and Future Plans

• Brandon's past and potential future speaking engagements

(49:12) Practical Applications of Legal Knowledge

• Challenging traffic tickets and government documents

• Redefining residency and citizenship

(54:55) The Abundance Mindset and Currency Creation

• Shifting perspective on money and bills

• Legal strategies for challenging financial systems

(1:02:12) Closing Thoughts and Resources

• Brandon's websites and free educational materials

• Importance of understanding legal definitions and rights

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134. Larken Rose on Immigration and Christian Values: Challenging the Border Fetish Brigade

What happens when immigration policies clash with Christian values? Craig sits down with Larken Rose to dissect the complexities of immigration, focusing on the criticisms of past and current policies across administrations, what is novel about Trump’s border approach, and the inconsistencies in how some Christians approach these issues. The conversation challenges listeners to scrutinize their beliefs and the language surrounding immigration.

Key Topics:

1. Demonization of Immigrants Under Trump: Larken Rose highlights how Trump's administration has intensified the demonization of immigrants, creating a category of "undesirables." He draws parallels to historical tyrants who gained power by instilling fear of a common enemy. 

2. Libertarian Inconsistencies: The discussion shifts to Dave Smith, a libertarian figure who supports Trump's immigration policies. Larken criticizes libertarians who abandon their principles on immigration, pointing out the hypocrisy in supporting authoritarian measures while claiming to champion individual liberty.

3. Christian Perspectives on Immigration Laws: Christians’ support for harsh immigration policies and "Jesus would follow the law" are examined. Do such stances contradict Jesus' teachings?

4. Self-Reflection and Consistency: Larken concludes with a positive note on the power of self-reflection. He suggests that significant positive change could occur if well-intentioned people critically examined their beliefs for inconsistencies, rather than trying to change the minds of those with opposing views.

Notable Quotes:

"Obama and going back forever the immigration thuggery…it's not at all new. Trump didn't invent that. But what we're seeing a lot more of right now is the demonization of a whole category of people, those ‘illegals’." - Larken Rose

"One of the first things where it really dawned on me that maybe I was thinking about this differently is the fact that we're calling a person “illegal” because they crossed a border that was created by corrupt elitist." - Craig Harguess

Join Craig and Larken as they navigate these topics, and reflect on liberty, ownership, and the state control and power that can be seized amid public outrage. In the full episode, you’ll find a thought-provoking discussion that questions the status quo at the intersection of faith and immigration.

Connect with Larken:

• The Jones Plantation Film

  • Platforms: Available on Apple TV, Amazon Prime, Tubi, Xmou Play, The Roku Channel, PLEX 

• The Rose Channel

• Book: The Most Dangerous Superstition 

• YouTube

• Candles in the Dark

• Facebook

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Immigration and Morality

• Larken Rose returns as a guest to tackle this contentious issue.

(0:51) The Current Immigration Crisis

• Examination of the current immigration situation and its portrayal in the media.

• Comparison of deportation statistics across different U.S. administrations.

• Concerns were raised about the use of detention centers, likened to concentration camps.

• Where was Auschwitz 

(2:52) The "Undesirables" Narrative

• Larken discusses the historical demonization of immigrants as "undesirables."

• Comparison to tactics used by tyrannical regimes to gain power.

(5:57) Christian Perspectives on Immigration

• Christian community's response to immigration policies.

• Calls for a more compassionate, Christ-like approach to the issue.

(10:14) Trump and Authoritarian Rhetoric

• Discussion of Trump's rhetoric, with comparisons to historical authoritarian figures.

• The term "Mango Mussolini" is introduced as a humorous yet pointed critique.

(14:42) Humor as Resistance

• The role of humor in challenging authoritarianism and political figures.

• Balancing humor with the gravity of political issues.

(18:21) Biblical Insights on Authority

• Reflection on how early Christians and Jesus challenged state authority.

• Encouragement for Christians to consider these examples in modern contexts.

(21:07) Libertarian Views on Immigration

• Critique of libertarian inconsistencies regarding immigration.

• Discussion on fear-based versus principle-based decision-making.

(24:29) Fear as a Political Tool

• Analysis of how fear is used to manipulate public opinion on immigration.

• A call for courage and adherence to principles in the face of fear.

(29:23) Language and Labels

• Examination of the term "illegal immigrant" and its implications.

• A Christian perspective on the dehumanization inherent in such labels.

(38:46) Jesus and Legal Compliance

• Addressing claims that Jesus would adhere to immigration laws.

• Historical context of early Christianity's defiance of Roman law.

(54:45) The "Do You Lock Your Doors?" Argument

• Larken challenges common pro-border control arguments.

• Discussion of personal property rights versus national borders.

(59:59) The Mirror Project

• Introduction to Larken's project aimed at encouraging self-reflection and consistency in beliefs.

• Emphasis on examining personal values and beliefs.

(1:02:57) Closing Thoughts and Resources

• Information on Larken's work, including "The Jones Plantation" film.

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133. When the Church Looks Away: Chronic Illness, Faith, and the Call to Love with Claire Staples and Sarah Perry

What happens when the body of Christ forgets its own?

In this powerful episode of The Bad Roman Podcast, Claire Staples (The Clarity Podcast) and Sarah Perry (Voluntarism in Action) join host Craig Harguess for a conversation that exposes the gap between what churches preach—and how they treat the chronically ill. Drawing from their lived experiences within the LDS Church and broader Christian communities, they explore what it means to suffer in faith while being ignored by the very institutions meant to offer support.

Both women share how chronic illness is often not only misunderstood but actively stigmatized within religious settings. Instead of being met with compassion, those with long-term illnesses are often sidelined, silenced, or blamed for their own suffering. Their stories are a sobering look at how churches—particularly those entangled with state-aligned ideologies and cultural expectations—can lose sight of Christ’s command to care for "the least of these."

The Hidden Burden: When Suffering Meets Silence

Claire and Sarah’s experiences reveal a troubling pattern: while churches may rally around someone facing a temporary injury or illness, chronic conditions are another story.

• Church leaders suggested their illnesses were spiritual failures—evidence of insufficient faith or unrepented sin.

• Expectations to “perform” remained unchanged, even when health was failing.

• Requests for help were met with cold bureaucracy or outright neglect.

As Sarah put it: “People hear the word ‘disease’ and they lose it.” The fear of illness—and the discomfort it brings—often leads communities to withdraw rather than draw near.

These moments beg a difficult but necessary question: Are we building churches that reflect Christ, or churches that maintain appearances?

A Return to the Gospel’s Core

Rather than offering cynicism, this episode calls for renewal. Claire and Sarah ground their critiques not in bitterness, but in Scripture. They point to the life of Jesus and the stories that define what it truly means to follow Him:

• The Good Samaritan reminds us that love is inconvenient—and that holiness is shown in how we treat those others ignore.

• Jesus’ healing of lepers challenges the impulse to keep our hands clean when our neighbors are in pain.

• The story of Job warns against the human tendency to explain away suffering with judgment.

These biblical examples offer more than comfort—they offer a roadmap back to the kind of faith that moves toward people, not systems. As Claire noted, “We need to bring it back to basics, back to home and family. Then we would all know Jesus better.”

What the Church Can Do Better

The conversation also offers tangible steps for churches and individuals who want to support chronically ill members with more integrity and compassion:

• Educate congregations on the realities of chronic illness.

• Offer support that doesn’t hinge on a person’s ability to serve or attend.

• Resist the temptation to “fix” suffering with theology—start by listening.

• Build inclusive spaces that reflect the full diversity of the body of Christ.

Claire and Sarah challenge the tendency to outsource care—whether to medical institutions or church programs—and remind us that the call of Christ is personal. The Gospel is not a system; it is a way of being with one another.

Faith in the Midst of Pain

Perhaps the most transformative thread in this episode is the reimagining of suffering itself—not as a sign of divine punishment, but as a crucible that can deepen intimacy with Christ. Both guests reject the prosperity gospel’s promise of health as a sign of favor, and instead point to the promise of God’s presence through the valley.

Suffering doesn’t disqualify us from God's love—it draws us deeper into it.

As Claire shared, “I don’t think I would have fully understood what Jesus did for me on the cross if I hadn’t suffered horrendously at no fault of my own.”

This conversation is a challenge—and an invitation. A call to rethink what it means to be the Church. A reminder that faith is not proven by perfection, but by how we love one another through imperfection, weakness, and pain.

Connect With Our Guests:

Claire Staples – The Clarity Podcast

Claire shares faith-centered conversations on recovering from high-demand religion, chronic illness, and returning to Christ-centered living.

• Podcast: The Clarity Podcast on Spotify

• Instagram: @theclarity.podcast

• YouTube Channel: The Clarity Podcast on YouTube

• Website + Nonprofit: ChronicallyBeautifulLife.com

  • Learn more about the Chronically Care Project and donate or contribute to care packages for the chronically ill.

Sarah Perry – Voluntarism in Action

Sarah volunteers with VIA, a liberty-rooted nonprofit providing direct aid and resources to communities in need—without state involvement.

• Organization Website: viaction.org

• Instagram: @voluntarism_in_action

  • Support ongoing humanitarian campaigns (e.g. Gaza relief, Congo gardens, US seed kits)

  • Sign up to receive free spring gardening kits (US-only) to promote food sovereignty

• Blog: VIA’s website also features resources on mutual aid, self-sufficiency, and disaster relief.

Episode Timestamps:

(0:02) Introduction to the Bad Roman Podcast

• Guests Claire Staples and Sarah Perry join to discuss chronic illness and the church

• Previous Episode with Claire: From Mormon LDS to Freedom in Christ: Unveiling Lies in Medicine, Government, and Religion

• Previous Episode with Sarah: Christian Ethics and Stateless Societies: The Anarchist Approach of the Perry Family

(0:22) Exploring Christian Responsibility in Healthcare

• Discussion on whether Christians are doing enough for the sick

• Questioning the comfort with government management of healthcare for Christians

(0:45) Claire and Sarah's Background with Chronic Illness

• Both guests share experiences with chronic illness in the LDS (Mormon) Church

• Instances of being shunned or misunderstood due to their health conditions

(2:11) Claire's Nonprofit Work

• Introduction to the Chronically Care Project, supporting those with chronic illnesses

• Insights gained from working with chronically ill individuals globally

(4:30) Sarah's Experience with Chronic Illness and Church

• Growing up with vague symptoms in an abusive family

• Expectations and disappointments within the Mormon Church community

(7:41) Church Leadership Response to Illness

• Sarah's experience of being shunned by church leaders for being sick

• Discussion on the importance of temple recommends in Mormon culture

(12:07) Comparing Church Experiences to Cult Documentaries

• Craig draws parallels between the guests' experiences and cult-like behaviors

• Reflection on the control and hierarchy within religious organizations

(17:21) Cultural Influences on Church Attitudes Towards Illness

• How state and government attitudes infiltrate church culture regarding chronic illness

• Examples of church leaders' responses to requests for help and understanding

(25:48) The Role of Medical System in Church Attitudes

• Discussion on the church's reliance on mainstream medical systems

• Critique of outsourcing care to doctors instead of providing community support

(30:28) LDS Church's Relationship with Government and Healthcare

• Exploration of the church's investments in medical and pharmaceutical industries

• Comparison of church tithing to government taxation

(36:06) Scriptural Solutions for Caring for the Sick

• Analysis of the Good Samaritan parable and its relevance to chronic illness care

• Discussion on Jesus' treatment of lepers and its modern application

(49:33) The Book of Job and Suffering

• Interpretation of Job's story in relation to chronic illness and faith

• Exploration of spiritual warfare and demonic influences on attitudes towards suffering

(1:03:38) Why Bad Things Happen to Good People

• Discussion on God's role in suffering and the nature of a fallen world

• Personal story from Craig about his niece's cancer diagnosis

(1:12:26) God's Love and Community Support

• Reflection on God's nature as love and the importance of community in times of suffering

• Craig shares positive experiences of support for his niece

(1:15:11) Closing Thoughts and Resource Sharing

• Claire and Sarah share information about their projects and podcasts

• Encouragement for listeners to engage with resources for supporting the chronically ill

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