Can we be made right by the law, or are we made right through Christ? That question sits at the center of this episode, but it does not stay small for long. Before long, Craig and Cody Cook are walking through Galatians, spiritual powers, Paul’s strange and beautiful logic, and the way modern Christians often ask Paul questions Paul may not have been trying to answer.
This conversation feels like standing in a doorway between two worlds. On one side is the tidy, familiar version of faith where everything is reduced to rule-keeping, categories, and being declared right. On the other side is the larger, stranger world of the New Testament, where Jesus does not simply help us behave better. He rescues us from an evil age. He breaks the grip of powers we barely know how to name. He brings us into a new family and a new creation.
Cody Cook returns to The Bad Roman Podcast to talk about his book Delivered from the Evil Age of the Present. What follows is not just a book discussion. It is a reminder that the gospel is bigger than legal formulas and deeper than online arguments. If Jesus really came to deliver us from this present evil age, then we have to ask: what are we still trying to crawl back under?
When We Ask Paul the Wrong Question
A lot of us were taught to read Paul through one main lens: law versus grace. Works versus faith. Trying hard versus trusting Jesus. There is truth in that, of course, but Cody helps slow the conversation down and ask whether that frame is too small.
He walks through the old perspective, the new perspective, and newer debates around “Paul within Judaism” and “apocalyptic Paul.” That may sound technical, but the heart of it is simple enough: are we reading Paul as if his biggest concern is personal guilt, or are we seeing that he is also talking about spiritual slavery and rescue through Christ?
That difference matters. A lot. If we reduce Paul to “How do I get forgiven?” we may miss the bigger thunderclap: Jesus has invaded a world held captive and has begun setting people free.
As Cody puts it,
“Jesus Christ gave himself on behalf of our sins in order that he might deliver us from the evil age of the present” (20:36–20:50).
That is not small language. That is rescue language. That is Kingdom language.
Declared Right, or Made New?
There is a line in this conversation that lands like a brick because it names something ugly in us with painful clarity:
“We wanna be declared right. We don’t wanna be right. We don’t wanna do right” (15:08–15:12).
Ouch. But isn’t that often true?
We want the label without the surrender. We want justification without transformation. We want a religious stamp that says “approved” while still holding on to our old loves, our old fears, and our old group loyalties. We would often rather be pronounced innocent than become holy.
But union with Christ is not a loophole. It is adoption. It is new belonging. It is a move from one realm to another. Cody keeps bringing the conversation back to the idea that in Christ we become sons and daughters, not just defendants who got good legal counsel. The law had a role, but it was temporary. Christ is not merely helping us manage the old world better. He is bringing us into a new one.
Rescued from the Powers We Barely See
Cody explains why Galatians 4 matters so much. He argues that Galatians 1:3–4 gives us Paul’s main point: Jesus gave himself to deliver us from this evil age. Then Galatians 3 and 4 show what that deliverance means.
This is where the Greek word stoicheia enters the conversation. In Galatians 4, many readers know the line, “we were in slavery under the elementary principles of the world.” That English wording can make Paul sound like he is only talking about basic rules or first lessons. But Cody says the Greek word stoicheia can carry more weight than that. It can mean elements or basic parts, but it can also point to spiritual powers. His point is that Paul may be warning the Galatians not just about bad ideas, but about a deeper kind of bondage. They had once been enslaved to pagan powers, and now, in a tragic twist, they were being tempted to go back under another form of slavery.
That is one of the hardest lessons for us to learn. We can leave one kind of bondage and then gladly embrace another one because it feels cleaner, more respectable, and more religious. But if it still enslaves, it is still slavery.
How often do we do the same? We leave the chaos of the world only to kneel before nationalism, ideology, partisanship, or religious performance. We trade one chain for another and call it maturity.
A Gospel Big Enough to Break Divisions
This episode also quietly pushes against modern identity obsessions. If Christ has truly brought a new creation, then ethnic, national, and political identities are no longer first. That does not erase history or culture, but it does put them in their proper place.
The powers love divided humanity. They thrive on categories that can be weaponized. They want us to keep introducing ourselves first by tribe, class, nation, and ideology. But Paul keeps pointing somewhere else. In Christ, the old walls are not the point anymore. A new world is breaking in.
That raises a hard question: do we really want that? Or do we only want a Jesus who blesses our side and leaves our favorite lines in place?
The Law Was Never the Destination
Cody is careful here, and that matters. He does not treat the law as useless or evil. He says there is still wisdom there. We can still learn from it. But we are not under it in the same way anymore. It served a role for a time, but it was not the end of the story.
That is freeing, but it is also disorienting. We like systems we can master. We like rules we can measure. We like faith that can be managed. Christ does not always give us that kind of safety.
Instead, he gives us himself.
And that means the Christian life is less like following a checklist and more like learning how to live as adopted children in a new household. It is more relational, more demanding, more beautiful, and harder to fake.
🤝Connect with Cody Cook🤝
Explore Cody’s Books: The Anarchist Anabaptist, The Pocket Anabaptist, Fight the Powers, What Belongs to Caesar?
Podcast and writing: Cantus Firmus
Podcast: Cantus Firmus
Website: cantus-firmus.com
Bad Roman Episodes with Cody Cook:
Highlights & Takeaways
Galatians is not just about personal guilt; it is about deliverance from an evil age.
We often want to be declared right more than we want to become holy.
Union with Christ is not just legal language; it is family language.
Paul’s vision is big: Christ defeats the powers that enslave humanity.
The law had a purpose, but it was never the final destination.
Spiritual bondage can return in respectable religious forms.
National, ethnic, and political identities lose their highest place in Christ.
The gospel is not self-improvement. It is rescue, adoption, and new creation.
Listen
Listen for the way Cody widens the frame. This is not only a conversation about law and grace. It is about rescue, powers, and the new creation breaking into the old one.
Reflect
What kind of Christianity feels safest to you: one that gives you clear status, or one that calls you into real change? Where are you still asking Paul smaller questions than he is answering?
Read
Read Galatians 1:3–4 and Galatians 4:1–11 slowly. Then read them again with this question in mind: what if Paul is talking about deliverance from more than personal guilt?
Practice
Name one identity you lean on too hard: political, national, denominational, or cultural. This week, hold it under the lordship of Jesus and ask what has to loosen if Christ really is your primary allegiance.
Episode Timestamps:
(0:00) Can law make us right, or only Christ?
opening question
Cody Cook’s new book introduced
law, Christ, and online arguments
(1:26) Why Cody wrote this book
Galatians 4:1–7 as the anchor essay
revised school work
chapters 4–6 as the key section
(4:13) Different ways people read Paul
old perspective
new perspective
later debates about Paul
(9:27) Courtroom, table, and battle
salvation in a courtroom
salvation at the table
salvation as conflict with the powers
(15:08) “We wanna be declared right”
declared right vs being made right
union with Christ
change, not just status
(20:23) Why Galatians 4 matters
Galatians 1:3–4 as the thesis
rescue from the present evil age
stoicheia and slavery
(34:13) Ordo amoris, J.D. Vance, and nation-first love
“ordered loves”
Christian nationalist excitement over the phrase
Augustine, Aquinas, neighbor-love, and church history
(57:48) Athanasius, incarnation, and the defeat of evil
On the Incarnation
image of God, mortality, and corruption
Jesus defeating demons and idols
(1:01:23) Christians, weapons, and the words of Jesus
swords into plowshares
“you can’t kill the devil with a gun or a sword”
national identities lose their grip in Christ
(1:06:16) Where to learn more
Libertarian Christian Institute
Cody’s interviews there
Nick Quint on apocalyptic Paul
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