76. "What about Romans 13?" with Matt Mouzakis

About this Episode

Craig is joined by Matt Mouzakis, worship pastor and co-host of Expedition 44, a popular theology podcast where the ancient languages and context of the Bible are discussed. Matt is doing his doctorate in New Testament studies, specializing in the passages often cited by Christian statists when they want to defend strict obedience to the government.

Matt explains how words like submit (hypotassesthō), and concepts like paying taxes take on very different meanings when placed in their proper context. Read Romans 13 through the eyes of a first-century Jew, see it in a fresh new light, and be prepared to confound the next statist who asks you, "But what about Romans 13?".

In fact, the only one to whom people owe allegiance and should be under the authority of is Jesus Himself. When we desire to put another into power over ourselves and our neighbors, it is a sin because humans are not to have authority over one another.

Craig and Matt delve into those passages used against women in ministry. Again, we discover that read in the context of the time and in their original language, nothing suggests women are to be subject to men in God's kingdom. We find God's ideals at the beginning and end of the Bible, and that is God alone reigning over humanity.

Expedition 44:

YouTube

Website

Covenant Theological Seminary

Expedition 44 episode on Romans 13

Ryan's book: This is the Way

Episode Timestamps:

1:54 – Who is Matt Mouzakis?

• Worship pastor at "Bapticostal" church

• Father of 4

• Theology geek doing Doctorate in New Testament

• Co-host of Expedition 44 podcast with Dr Ryan (Head Chair of Biblical Studies at Covenant Theological Seminary

• Expedition 44

• Discuss the ancient context of the Bible

• Salvation is a journey "expedition" 

• The separatist ancient Essene community gave themselves the number 22

• God doubles the portion, which is where the 44 comes from 

8:15 – The Church of Nationalism

• American pastors don't speak against the entanglement of Christians and the state

• Sometimes they advocate for candidates

• The early church was outspoken against the Roman Empire

• But it is glossed over these days

• Churches seek power through the state now

• There's no basis in the Bible for Christians to be seeking any power

• We need no king but Christ

• Politics comes into your theology

• Some would say that representative government is different from serving another king

• In the first two pages and last two pages of the Bible is where you find God's ideals

• Everything in the middle is messed up

• Humans are not to have authority over one another

• Not even men over women

• The hebrew word "Tsela" should be translated as "side" rather than "rib"

• On the last page of the Bible, you see men and women under God's authority

• That's God's ideal

• That should inform our politics

• We are ambassadors from another King

• Our government has its own kingdom

• The fall is the "defilement of all of creation"

• There are multiple falls in the Old Testament

• When people usurp God's authority, humans rule other humans

• That is not a part of God's ideals

18:58 – Women in Ministry

• A topic that is spoken about on Expedition 44

• Women were the first to tell of Jesus' resurrection

• The men were in hiding

• Paul was very egalitarian

• When we don't look at the Bible in context, it gets confusing

• If Genesis 3 is reversed in Jesus, the church should reflect that

• The local context of Paul telling women to be quiet was an all-women-led cult

• Right before that, he tells the men off for being angry

• None should have authority over others in the church

• The women were trying to teach before they had learned

• Greek tenses matter in better translation

• Keith Giles's episode about women and the church

• Women stayed at home and were less educated in Paul's day

• Women were to learn but not interrupt the service

• 1 Corinthians 14: 34-35 might be an error added to the text based on a scribble by a scribe

• Philip Payne's book – One In Christ

• Expedition 44 episode – Women Must Be Silent?

26:16 – Romans 13

• The words "submit" and "obey" are two different words

• Romans 13 is the go-to for opponents of "No King but Christ"

• Romans 13 should be read in light of Romans 12

• The chapter breaks weren't there originally

• Romans chapters 12-16 should be read as a chunk

• All the things that Jesus said about enemy love do not fit with Romans 13

• Romans 13:1 & 5 Submit is hypotassesthō

• Defined as voluntary yielding

• Obey God is hupakouó

• David Bently Heart – New Testament

• It is necessary that we obey God rather than man

• The Bible should be read as a whole

• The whip that Jesus used was a common tool to heard animals

• He didn't harm any people

• He was angry at the extortion in the temple

• The gospel spreads by word of mouth too

• "Governing authorities"

• A common expression for anyone with authority

• Not necessarily government

• The people of the day were in Rome

• A place of multiple layers of governing 

• Neighborhood watch role, rather than law enforcement

• Rome wasn't taxed at the time when Romans was written

• Romans 13:1 - exousia means evil powers

• And appears in Ephesians 6:12

• Paul understood demons controlled the empires

• Jesus didn't rebuke Satan when he offered Him the kingdoms of the world

• Deuteronomy 32 – Moses says God divided mankind and gave them to the sons of God

42:18 – Is voting a sin?

• 1 Samuel 8

• Craig has concluded that voting is a sin

• Jesus said the gentiles lorded power over others, but we were not to be the same

• God said it was not Samuel that was rejected, rather it was God Himself

• Rejecting God is a sin

• Sleeping is better than exercising power over others

• Matt and Steve discussed whether or not Christians should vote

• The desire to have a king is to reject God

• Voting is the desire to put someone in power over ourselves and neighbors

• Therefore, voting is a rejection of God

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74. Can We Love More Than We Hate with Hodey Johns

About this Episode

This week Craig is joined by Hodey Johns, co-host of the Enemy of My Enemy podcast from the We Are Libertarians Network. They discuss focussing on love that looks like how God loves us, contrasting these with social media discussions that look more like hate. They talk about political statements that assume God hates those on the wrong end of our favorite policies. However, Christians shouldn't even be on the political spectrum. Can the love of Jesus be made visible when we fight online over our political positioning?

The Israelites received laws from the very hand of God, but they missed His heart for humanity to follow their consciences in loving their neighbors. Not even Jewish regulations could justify people in the sight of God because love is the fulfillment of the law. Jesus proved this when he righteously ignored the Levitical laws, and the Pharisees proved that one could follow the rules perfectly and still be unrighteous.

Unfortunately, we haven't learned this; hate may be more natural to Christians than love. We fail to worship God according to His desires when we fail to love those around us. As Christians, rather than looking for the boundaries we should not step on and assume that the rest of our conduct is loving, we need to seek the narrow path and aggressively love everyone, including our enemies. After all, this is how Christ first loved us.

Hodey Johns:

·       Facebook

·       Instagram

·       Twitter

Episode Timestamps:

1:56 – Introduction to Hodey Johns

·       Loves debates

·       Theologian

·       Writes about video games

·       Parents weren't very interested in their own Christian faith

o   Hodey was self-taught in Christianity and the Bible from a young age

·       Became a Mormon for 15 years

·       Lived all over the states

o   Noticed that Christian culture differs from place to place

6:19 – Christians on Social Media

·       Do more Christians need to put themselves out there on social media?

·       People don't change their minds in an instant or one conversation

o   They contemplate new ideas for a while

o   Like planting a new tree, waiting and tasting its fruit

·       We can't let others do the theological thinking for us

o   Not even religious folks

o   Jesus called the Pharisees a brood of vipers

·       No Christian has everything figured out

o   Christianity is a process

o   But we don't need to worry because we know who God is

16:14 – Love one another and love your enemy

·       Christians have a tough time balancing being in the world but not of the world

·       Thankfully, it's not all over once you sin

·       When you sin and recover, you get better

·       Christians wield hate and fear as a conversion method

o   We have all experienced hate

o   As Christians, we know that hate is evil

·       Love is the highest commandment

o   Jesus loved us and died for us

o   Would we give up our lives for those we are fighting with on social media

·       Love is not just the absence of hate

·       We ought to be aggressively loving

o   Christianity is a narrow path

·       Christianity should not be us saying, "God opposes [insert pet peeve here]"

·       There is real hate from both left- and right-wing Christians

·       Christians should not be on a political spectrum

·       Biden's student loan debt write-offs are not forgiveness

·       The left likes to think it has a monopoly on love

·       Jesus only spoke in parables to the public

o   Stories of love and goodness

o   We should be using stories too and asking, "who is the loving neighbour?"

·       Moral choices are required for good deeds to be produced

·       Paying taxes is not a virtue

33:09 – How ethical is the law?

·       Immigrants from Mexico who come to better their lives are human beings too

o   They cross an imaginary line to come here

o   The law of the land is in opposition to God's law

o   They only come to eat and feed their families

o   Christians don't seem to understand this

o   They are still image bearers of God

·       Jewish law was superior to today's laws

o   They still condemned people

o   They still allowed for the killing of Jesus Christ

·       The Bible can be summarised as people trying to justify themselves by the law

o   It was to show the way to being led by the Holy Spirit

o   It was to give the Israelites time to escape the slave mentality of Egypt

·       Where is your faith?

o   Do politicians protect you and your nation?

o   It should be in Jesus Christ

o   Why are Christians scared of immigrants?

o   In Jesus' death and resurrection Christianity grew

·       Christianity's hey-day was when Christians were stateless

·       The Israelites' laws changed from chapter to chapter of Leviticus

o   The law was being revised constantly

§  God was stable; His people were not

o   They couldn't enter the promised land until they realised the law could not save them

·       Even the wandering Israelites went astray when they tried to turn their relationship with God into a law-based system

40:19 – We can't legislate love.

·       The complex legal system that we have cannot be used to promote Christian values

o   The Israelites walked together with God and couldn't make the law work

·       Laws are written on paper, but let's try to figure out what is right

·       The will of God is to love one another

o   Love is the command

o   We worship someone else when we fail to love

·       When Christians think they are God, they become hateful

·       Are you really a Christian if you are not moving towards love?

·       Are we being motivated by the love of Christ?

45:57 – Church is unappealing when we don't have love

·       Church attendance has dropped off since 2013

·       There are reasons why people don't go to church

o   Hate-filled sermons

o   Hate-filled conversations with people after church

·       Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax-collectors

o   We should also be showing them the love of Christ

·       Jesus' measure of how to get into heaven was to forgive and not judge others

o   That is mentioned more often than other methods usually suggested

·       Homosexuality is not a sin

·       Whosoever is angry with his brother is at risk of being judged

·        Jesus said himself that if you call someone gay, you are in danger of being judged

·       Wanting to punish people crossing a border is wrong

·       Jesus ignored the law and healed on the Sabbath

o   This is why Hodey trashes the law

o   Jesus never denied breaking the Sabbath

·       The scriptures are stories of people working out morality in a complex world

·       The transformation of your heart is all that matters

·       You can break the law and be right

·       You can follow the Levitical law and be wrong

o   The Pharisees proved it

·       Jesus ignored the laws, so we can ignore immoral laws also

1:05:47 – Smoked meats

·       During covid, Hodey picked up a smoking meats hobby

·       Smoking meat makes Hodey a better person

o   It's a philosophical journey

o   The community is full of nice people

·       Well-cooked brisket is a bad piece of meat turned good through cooking

·       Mesquite trees make the best-smoked meats

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