162. Iranian Christians, ICE Raids, and the Cost of Following Jesus with Ara Torosian

What does it mean to follow Jesus when governments demand your allegiance, your silence, or your fear?

That question is not abstract in this episode. It has a name, a face, a church family, and tears on a Los Angeles sidewalk and Iranian streets. Craig sits down with Ara Torosian, an Iranian-born Armenian pastor now living in Los Angeles, to talk about Iranian Christians, war, asylum, ICE arrests, and what it means to follow Jesus when governments on every side demand our fear.

Ara’s story does not fit into our neat American boxes. He loves Iran. He loves America. He has suffered under the Iranian regime. He has been and watched Christians be persecuted in Iran. He has seen fellow asylum seekers be detained here in the United States government. That kind of story makes slogans fall apart fast.

And maybe that is the point.

Because if Jesus is Lord, then no flag gets to blind us. No empire gets a blank check. No ruler gets to replace mercy. No King but Christ.

When the government Becomes a Teacher of Fear

Ara was born in Iran in 1979, the year of the Iranian Revolution. He grew up as part of an Armenian Christian minority in a country shaped by pressure, control, and fear. As a child, he remembers being pushed to step on painted U.S. flags and Israeli flags at school while chants were taught like lessons.

That is what governments do. They train children to hate the “enemy” before the children even know what the word means.

But here is the catch: the U.S. does this too. Maybe the songs are different. Maybe the flags are treated with more reverence. Maybe the slogans sound more polished. But when any government teaches us who to fear, who to bomb, who to cage, and who to ignore, Christians should pause.

Jesus never said, “Blessed are the well-propagandized.” He said, “Blessed are the peacemakers.”

The Underground Church and the Cost of Saying Yes

Ara came to faith as a teenager after reading the Bible in Farsi. He knew from the start that following Jesus could cost him. This was not church as a hobby. This was not Sunday morning culture. This was a dangerous yes.

“When I say, ‘Yes, Lord, I wanna follow you,’ I knew this is going to be dangerous. This might cost my life.” — Ara, around 10:17

That kind of faith exposes how soft our U.S. church games can be. We argue about music styles, coffee brands, and which politician God supposedly likes this year. Meanwhile, brothers and sisters in Iran have been arrested, beaten, imprisoned, and killed for gathering around Scripture.

Ara says the church in Iran went underground after pressure increased. And yet, the gospel kept moving. Not through government power. Not through a Christian nation. Not through forced religion.

Through witness. Through courage. Through people hungry for truth.

War, Peace, and the Sermon on the Mount

One of the hardest parts of this conversation is the tension around war. Ara has seen evil up close. He has watched people suffer under the Iranian regime. He understands why many Iranians are desperate for outside pressure and even military help.

Craig does not brush that pain aside. But he also asks the question Bad Romans have to ask:

“As I read the Sermon on the Mount, where am I gonna see this in the words of Jesus?” — Craig, 33:25

That question should haunt us in the best way.

Because the government always has a reason to bomb. Always. It is always freedom, safety, justice, defense, liberation, or national interest. But Jesus calls us to enemy-love, mercy, prayer, and cross-shaped faithfulness.

Ara says plainly, “As a Christian, I want peace. I want peace for all world.” He also admits the world is broken and the answers are not simple.

That honesty matters. We do not need cheap answers. We need Jesus-shaped ones.

The Church Is Not a Political Platform

Ara shares something every U.S. church should hear. In his own church, people have wanted to bring political loyalty into the pulpit. Some support Iranian opposition leaders. Some want the church to bless a movement or party.

Ara refuses.

“In my church, my platform is for Bible and preaching the gospel.” — Ara, around 37:34–38:23

Amen and amen.

The church is not a campaign office. It is not a nationalist clubhouse. It is not a place to crown Caesar, Trump, Biden, Pahlavi, or anyone else. The church belongs to Christ.

That does not mean Christians stop caring about real suffering. It means we care without handing our worship to rulers.

When ICE Looks Like the Regime You Fled

Then the episode turns from Iran to Los Angeles.

Ara describes Iranian Christian asylum seekers from his congregation being detained by ICE, including people with pending asylum cases and legal paperwork. He says one couple had lawyers, documents, and a live asylum case when they were arrested.

Ara watched masked agents detain people from his church. It brought him back to Iran.

“Seven minutes I was crying… Because that triggered me back in Iran.” — Ara, 52:49–53:00

That sentence should stop us cold.

What does it say when a pastor who fled persecution sees masked agents in U.S. uniforms and feels like he is back under the terror he escaped?

This is where “law and order” talk gets tested by Jesus. These are not talking points. These are image-bearers. These are families. These are people seeking refuge. Ara says it clearly: “They are just people. They are just Christians, persecuted Christian. They want freedom.”

Acting Christian, Not Using Christianity

Ara does not ask U.S. Christians to pick a party. He asks them to act like Christians.

“The Christian show the act, mercy, and also compassion for human life.” — Ara, 58:00–58:09

That is the line.

Not “Who did you vote for?”
Not “Which side owns the news cycle?”
Not “Can we make this fit our immigration policy?”

Mercy. Compassion. Human life.

Craig adds that silence in the face of oppression makes us complicit. That is not a call to worship politics. It is a call to stop hiding behind politics when our neighbors are suffering. 

May we be people who speak for the voiceless, refuse the worship of empire, and follow the crucified King.

Jesus over empire. Neighbor-love over coercion. No King but Christ.

🤝Connect with Ara Torosian🤝

• Instagram: Ara Torosian, @aratorosian (Instagram)

• Facebook: Ara Torosian (Facebook)

• Church connection: Cornerstone West Los Angeles / Farsi-speaking community; Ara has written publicly for the church about war, immigration struggle, and his congregation’s pain. (cornerstonewla.org)

• Related reporting: Christianity Today covered one Iranian Christian connected to Ara’s church being freed after nine months in immigration detention. (Christianity Today)

• Related reporting: Religion News Service covered Ara’s hunger strike and advocacy for detained Iranian Christians. (RNS)

• Related reporting: Reuters covered immigration arrests of Iranian asylum seekers in Los Angeles and Ara’s response as pastor. (Reuters)

Highlights & Takeaways

• Governments train fear. Jesus trains enemy-love.

• Iranian people are not the Iranian regime. We must stop confusing rulers with the people under them.

• War always promises freedom, but often multiplies death. Christians must test every claim by the words of Jesus.

• The church pulpit belongs to Christ. It should not become a stage for parties, rulers, or national movements.

• Persecuted Christians need protection, not political theater. Asylum seekers are neighbors, not props.

• Mercy is not weakness. It is what faithfulness looks like when the government gets cruel.

• Speaking up matters. Silence can become cooperation with oppression.

• No King but Christ means no empire or government gets our full trust. Not Iran. Not America. Not any government.

Listen

Listen for the tension in Ara’s story. He loves America, grieves Iran, opposes oppression, and still wrestles with what peace looks like in a broken world.

Reflect

Where have you let a government tell you who your enemy is? What would change if you looked at that person first through the eyes of Jesus?

Read

Read Matthew 5–7 slowly this week. Pay special attention to enemy-love, mercy, prayer, and the way Jesus rejects revenge.

Practice

Find one immigrant, refugee, prisoner, or detained family story in your own community. Do not turn it into a debate. Pray, listen, and look for one concrete act of mercy.

Episode Timestamps:

(00:00) government oppression and Iranian Christians

• Standing by or speaking up

• Iranian Christians in Iran and United States

• Ara Torosian introduced

(00:37) Meeting Ara

• Brian Drinkwine connection

• Western blind spots about Iran

• Hidden Christian communities

(02:01) Ara’s background

• Armenian Christian roots

• Born during the Iranian Revolution

• Minority life under pressure

(03:32) Discovering the Bible in Farsi

• First encounter with the gospel

• Six months of searching

• A dangerous yes to Jesus

(04:06) Childhood under government propaganda

• Anti-Western school rituals Iran

• Forced slogans and flags

• Fear taught young

(07:00) Pressure on Christians in Iran

• Closed churches

• Pastors killed or imprisoned

• Underground Christian faith in Iran

(10:17) Following Jesus when it costs

• Faith with real danger

• Prison and persecution

• American comfort challenged

(11:28) Smuggling Bibles into Iran and house arrest

• Arrest at the airport

• Two years under pressure

• Intelligence office interrogations

(12:43) The underground church grows

• House churches after closures

• Hunger for truth

• Iran as mission field

(15:03) People versus regimes

• Iranian people not the regime

• American government comparison

• government power and coercion

(17:10) War, freedom, and mixed Iranian views

• Some wanting intervention

• Some fearing bombs

• Media narratives questioned

(30:57) Craig presses the Jesus question

• War on terror comparison

• More war making more death

• Sermon on the Mount tension

(33:32) Ara’s struggle with war and peace

• Wanting peace as a Christian

• Broken world realities

• Rights versus righteousness

(34:46) Presenting, not protesting

• White House fasting

• Voice for the voiceless

• Persecuted Christians detained

(35:37) Government worship in churches

• Leaders lifted over Scripture

• Jesus as Savior, not rulers

• Peace prayed for daily

(37:03) Politics inside the church

• Iranian opposition movements

• Pulpit not for parties

• Church as gospel space

(48:01) Bad Roman donation break

• Spotfund support

• No King But Christ message

• Donations beyond costs to Memphis charities

(48:38) ICE arrests and asylum seekers

• Church members detained

• Pending asylum cases

• Legal path concerns

(52:03) Masked agents and trauma

• Couples detained

• Panic attack and emergency room

• Iran memories triggered

(54:00) Broken immigration system

• Asylum eventually granted

• Months in detention

• Families harmed

(55:44) Children praying for their dad

• Nine- and seven-year-old kids

• Detained father

• Sunday prayers

(56:08) Speaking because he can

• Freedom to criticize government in U.S. vs. Iran

• White House advocacy

• Church silence challenged

(58:00) What Christians should show

• Mercy and compassion

• Human dignity

• Persecuted Christians seeking freedom

(59:36) Silence and complicity

• Speaking out against oppression

• Possible costs

• Refusal to stay quiet

(01:01:03) Life belongs to Jesus

• Threats from Christians

• Fear admitted

• Kingdom purpose

(01:03:11) Bad Roman Salsa break

• Salsa support

• Homemade freedom joke

• No King but Christ jingle

(01:03:54) How many Christians in Iran?

• Numbers hard to know

• Underground church reality

• Fundraising claims questioned

(01:05:30) Where to find Ara

• Instagram and Facebook

• Open to honest questions

• Avoiding hateful arguments

(01:07:14) Lakers, Luka, and closing

• Basketball side quest

• Keeping in touch

• Final thanks

---

Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

134. Larken Rose on Immigration and Christian Values: Challenging the Border Fetish Brigade

What happens when immigration policies clash with Christian values? Craig sits down with Larken Rose to dissect the complexities of immigration, focusing on the criticisms of past and current policies across administrations, what is novel about Trump’s border approach, and the inconsistencies in how some Christians approach these issues. The conversation challenges listeners to scrutinize their beliefs and the language surrounding immigration.

Key Topics:

1. Demonization of Immigrants Under Trump: Larken Rose highlights how Trump's administration has intensified the demonization of immigrants, creating a category of "undesirables." He draws parallels to historical tyrants who gained power by instilling fear of a common enemy. 

2. Libertarian Inconsistencies: The discussion shifts to Dave Smith, a libertarian figure who supports Trump's immigration policies. Larken criticizes libertarians who abandon their principles on immigration, pointing out the hypocrisy in supporting authoritarian measures while claiming to champion individual liberty.

3. Christian Perspectives on Immigration Laws: Christians’ support for harsh immigration policies and "Jesus would follow the law" are examined. Do such stances contradict Jesus' teachings?

4. Self-Reflection and Consistency: Larken concludes with a positive note on the power of self-reflection. He suggests that significant positive change could occur if well-intentioned people critically examined their beliefs for inconsistencies, rather than trying to change the minds of those with opposing views.

Notable Quotes:

"Obama and going back forever the immigration thuggery…it's not at all new. Trump didn't invent that. But what we're seeing a lot more of right now is the demonization of a whole category of people, those ‘illegals’." - Larken Rose

"One of the first things where it really dawned on me that maybe I was thinking about this differently is the fact that we're calling a person “illegal” because they crossed a border that was created by corrupt elitist." - Craig Harguess

Join Craig and Larken as they navigate these topics, and reflect on liberty, ownership, and the state control and power that can be seized amid public outrage. In the full episode, you’ll find a thought-provoking discussion that questions the status quo at the intersection of faith and immigration.

Connect with Larken:

• The Jones Plantation Film

  • Platforms: Available on Apple TV, Amazon Prime, Tubi, Xmou Play, The Roku Channel, PLEX 

• The Rose Channel

• Book: The Most Dangerous Superstition 

• YouTube

• Candles in the Dark

• Facebook

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Immigration and Morality

• Larken Rose returns as a guest to tackle this contentious issue.

(0:51) The Current Immigration Crisis

• Examination of the current immigration situation and its portrayal in the media.

• Comparison of deportation statistics across different U.S. administrations.

• Concerns were raised about the use of detention centers, likened to concentration camps.

• Where was Auschwitz 

(2:52) The "Undesirables" Narrative

• Larken discusses the historical demonization of immigrants as "undesirables."

• Comparison to tactics used by tyrannical regimes to gain power.

(5:57) Christian Perspectives on Immigration

• Christian community's response to immigration policies.

• Calls for a more compassionate, Christ-like approach to the issue.

(10:14) Trump and Authoritarian Rhetoric

• Discussion of Trump's rhetoric, with comparisons to historical authoritarian figures.

• The term "Mango Mussolini" is introduced as a humorous yet pointed critique.

(14:42) Humor as Resistance

• The role of humor in challenging authoritarianism and political figures.

• Balancing humor with the gravity of political issues.

(18:21) Biblical Insights on Authority

• Reflection on how early Christians and Jesus challenged state authority.

• Encouragement for Christians to consider these examples in modern contexts.

(21:07) Libertarian Views on Immigration

• Critique of libertarian inconsistencies regarding immigration.

• Discussion on fear-based versus principle-based decision-making.

(24:29) Fear as a Political Tool

• Analysis of how fear is used to manipulate public opinion on immigration.

• A call for courage and adherence to principles in the face of fear.

(29:23) Language and Labels

• Examination of the term "illegal immigrant" and its implications.

• A Christian perspective on the dehumanization inherent in such labels.

(38:46) Jesus and Legal Compliance

• Addressing claims that Jesus would adhere to immigration laws.

• Historical context of early Christianity's defiance of Roman law.

(54:45) The "Do You Lock Your Doors?" Argument

• Larken challenges common pro-border control arguments.

• Discussion of personal property rights versus national borders.

(59:59) The Mirror Project

• Introduction to Larken's project aimed at encouraging self-reflection and consistency in beliefs.

• Emphasis on examining personal values and beliefs.

(1:02:57) Closing Thoughts and Resources

• Information on Larken's work, including "The Jones Plantation" film.

---

Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

132. allegiance to God or Government? with Jason Porterfield

In a world where political divisions run deep and national identity often overshadows faith, how can Christians navigate the complex relationship between church and state? This episode of the Bad Roman Podcast featuring author of Fight Like Jesus: How Jesus Waged Peace Throughout Holy Week, Jason Porterfield, explores the complex relationship between Christianity and the state. 

As Christians, we know we're called to follow Jesus. Yet, many of us find ourselves caught in a web of conflicting loyalties. We pledge allegiance to flags, sing patriotic anthems, and even display national symbols in our places of worship. But is this what Jesus intended for His followers?

Jason challenges us to reconsider our assumptions about Christian citizenship and allegiance. His insights offer a fresh perspective on what it means to be a follower of Christ in a world that falsely demands our loyalty to earthly powers.

The Kingdom of God: More Than Just a Spiritual Concept

When Jesus spoke of the Kingdom of God, He wasn't merely describing a spiritual realm. He was making a bold, politically charged statement that challenged the very foundations of earthly power structures. Yet, many Christians today shy away from this revolutionary concept, preferring instead to speak of the "family of God" or other less confrontational terms.

Why do we do this? Perhaps it's because we've become too comfortable with the idea of dual citizenship – claiming allegiance to both God and country. But as Jason points out, this divided loyalty often leads to a watered-down faith where Jesus becomes Lord of less and less, while Caesar (or the state) claims lordship over everything else.

Consider this: What if we took Jesus' words about the Kingdom of God as seriously as the early Christians did? How might it change our relationship with the state and our understanding of our role in society?

Allegiance vs. Faith: Reclaiming the Power of Pistis

One of the most striking insights from this episode is the discussion around the Greek word "pistis." Often translated simply as "faith," this word carries a much deeper meaning of allegiance or loyalty. When the New Testament writers speak of giving one's pistis to Jesus, they're not just talking about believing in Him – they're calling for a complete transfer of allegiance from earthly powers to Christ.

This understanding challenges the modern Christian tendency to reduce faith to a personal, spiritual matter divorced from political and social realities. It calls us to reconsider what it truly means to declare Jesus as Lord and King.

Ask yourself: Have I reduced my faith in Jesus to mere belief, or am I willing to give Him my complete allegiance, even when it conflicts with the demands of the state?

Flags in the Sanctuary: A Symbol of Divided Loyalties

The presence of national flags in church sanctuaries is a relatively recent phenomenon, yet it's become so commonplace that many Christians don't think twice about it. However, as Jason reminds us, the early church would have found this practice deeply troubling.

Tertullian, an early Christian writer, declared that "the divine banner and the human banner do not go together, nor the standard of Christ and the standard of the devil." These words may sound harsh to modern ears, but they reflect a deep understanding of the exclusive nature of our allegiance to Christ.

Consider this: What message are we sending when we display national symbols alongside Christian ones in our places of worship? Are we inadvertently suggesting that our loyalty is divided between God and country?

Practical Implications: Living as Citizens of Heaven

So how do we live out this radical allegiance to Christ in practical terms? Jason offers several thought-provoking suggestions:

1. Rethink your language: Instead of speaking of Jesus as your personal Savior, try referring to Him as your Lord and King.

2. Reconsider your participation in national rituals: Jason shares how he stands silently during the Pledge of Allegiance, reciting the Lord's Prayer instead.

3. Engage in your community, but with a different perspective: Work for the welfare of your city or country, but do so as an ambassador of Christ's kingdom, not as a citizen of an earthly nation.

4. Be prepared for pushback: Standing firm in your allegiance to Christ may cost you relationships or opportunities, but remember that your citizenship is in heaven.

What We Learned About True Allegiance

This episode challenges us to examine our assumptions about faith, citizenship, and allegiance. It reminds us that following Jesus is not just about personal salvation – it's about pledging our loyalty to a different kingdom altogether.

As we navigate the complex landscape of modern politics and national identity, let's remember that our primary citizenship is in heaven. Our allegiance is to Christ alone, and from that foundation, we can engage with our earthly communities in ways that reflect His love, justice, and peace.

Are you ready to reclaim the revolutionary nature of your faith? Listen to the full episode for more insights on living as citizens of God's kingdom in a world that demands our allegiance. And don't forget to check out Jason Porterfield's book "Fight Like Jesus" for a deeper exploration of how Jesus modeled peacemaking and confronted injustice during Holy Week.

Let's commit to being "bad Romans" – Christians who are willing to challenge the status quo and live out our allegiance to Christ, no matter the cost.

Connect with Jason:

• Free ebook

• Website

• Twitter

• Facebook

• Instagram

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Episode Overview

• Discussion on phrases used to define the kingdom of God

• Examination of national flags in churches

• Guest Jason Porterfield returns to the show

(0:56) Jason Porterfield Returns to the Show

• Jason Porterfield on Past Bad Roman Episodes

• Waging Peace: Seeing God Before the Resurrection with Jason Porterfield, Episode 54

• Keith Giles & Jason Porterfield - Fight Like a Christian, Episode 14

• Updates on Jason's family and work

• Impact of recent political policies on Jason's life and ministry

(2:47) Current Political Climate

• Craig and Jason discuss the challenges of Christian engagement with politics

• Concerns about Christians celebrating divisive political actions

(4:26) Motivations Behind Jason's Recent Post

• Jason shares the context of a church service that inspired his post

• Reflection on J.D. Vance's comments about Christian priorities

(9:24) Church Diversity and Political Tensions

• Discussion on political diversity within Jason's church (Quaker Friends Church)

• Challenges of maintaining Christian unity amid political differences

(12:27) Analyzing Jason's Four-Point Post

• Point 1: Jesus spoke of the kingdom of God, but that's too political

• Exploration of reducing the meaning of Jesus' teachings

(18:03) The Power of Language in Christian Identity

• Importance of recognizing Jesus as King

• Implications of using "Christ" vs. "King" in reference to Jesus

(24:24) Early Church Perspectives on Allegiance

• Historical examples of early Christians prioritizing allegiance to Christ

• Tertullian's statements on allegiance to God vs. Caesar

(28:22) Jesus' Teachings on Taxes and Allegiance

• Justin Martyr

• Analysis of Jesus' response to paying taxes to Caesar

• Early church interpretations of Jesus' teachings on allegiance

(35:33) The Bruderhof Community's Resistance to Nazism

• Example of Christians maintaining allegiance to Christ during political pressure

• Bonhoeffer's influence on the Bruderhof's stance

(46:21) Flags in Churches and Pledges of Allegiance

• Jason's personal approach to pledges of Allegiance

• Discussion on the presence of national flags in church sanctuaries

(54:56) Jason's Resource: 100 Early Christian Quotes on Not Killing

• Origin and purpose of Jason's compilation of early Christian quotes

• Importance of understanding early church perspectives on violence

(57:51) Jason's Book: Fight Like Jesus

• Overview of the book's focus on Jesus' actions during Holy Week

• Encouragement to read the book during the Lenten season

(59:48) Conclusion and Additional Resources

• Invitation to explore Jason's website for more resources

• Importance of Christians considering their relationship to the state

---

Related Episodes

Related Blog Post