152. Did Government Authority Justify the Killing of Renee Nicole Good? A Christian View with Larken Rose

Was the shooting of a Christian mother of three, Renee Nicole Good, murder or self-defense? When Christians cheer for state violence, can we claim it is God we actually worship?

Craig sits down with author and provocateur Larken Rose, not to tally clips or dunk on strangers online, but to face a deeper sickness: our culture’s worship of “authority.” The story that played out on an icy street – ICE agents, a woman in a car, three bullets – exposes something far older than any badge. It exposes a rival religion. In that light, this episode is not merely commentary. It’s a mirror for the American church and a call to return to the Sermon on the Mount. 

A House Divided: Flag or Cross?

Followers of Jesus have always had to choose between two rival kingdoms. One hangs its hope on power, control, and the threat of punishment. The other takes up a cross and washes feet. One calls enemies “targets.” The other calls enemies “neighbors.” When a woman is shot through a car window by an agent of the state, the first kingdom asks whether the procedures were followed. The second asks whether love of neighbor has been abandoned.

Many Christians don’t like that contrast. It feels unfair, even accusatory. But the Gospels force the question. Jesus blesses peacemakers, not power-brokers. He rebukes the sword. He refuses to call down fire. He walks through Samaria instead of around it. He tells us that the way we treat the least of these is the way we treat Him.

If that is the King we confess, then any event involving state violence is not just a legal question; it’s a discipleship question. What we defend in public reveals what we worship in private. When a badge is enough to change our moral standard, we have traded the Kingdom for the empire and slapped Jesus’ name on it. That is not orthodoxy. That is idolatry.

What Actually Happened Matters, but Why We Defend It Matters More

Yes, facts matter. Video matters. Angles matter. In this case, people argue over the “first shot” like it’s a courtroom riddle, then skip past the unarguable reality of two more shots fired into a vehicle at a woman who posed no lethal threat. Some admit those facts and then slip into the great American shrug: if the state did it, it must be justified. That reflex is the problem.

Larken names it without blinking: the belief in authority trains ordinary people to excuse evil when their team does it. That is not a left-versus-right issue. It is a worship issue. You can hear it whenever someone says, “Well, she should have obeyed,” as if obedience to a man with a gun is identical to obedience to God. You see it whenever the conversation dodges the moral center, “You shall not murder,” “love your neighbor as yourself,” “blessed are the merciful,” and runs to procedures, politics, and public relations.

The church must refuse that dodge. The Kingdom does not baptize bullets because the shooter is wearing a government costume. The cross does not create exceptions for uniforms. If something is murder without a badge, it is still murder with a badge.

Badges Don’t Make New Morals

Imagine this scene without uniforms. Masked, armed men surround your car, try doors, yell commands, and one of them moves into the lane in front of your hood. If any gang behaved like this, nearly everyone would call it reckless, immoral, and criminal. So why, when the label reads “federal agent,” do some believers flip their ethics upside down? The answer is ugly: many of us believe the state has divine permission to do evil that would be evil for anyone else. We won’t say it that bluntly, but our defenses give it away.

Scripture gives us no such permission. Romans 13 cannot be read against Romans 12 or the Sermon on the Mount. Paul does not cancel Jesus. The early church did not arm itself with Caesar’s sword to spread the Gospel. The fathers we quote on holiness would laugh at the idea that a title grants moral immunity. “No King but Christ” means one moral law for everyone, from the poor to the powerful. Anything else is a golden calf in red, white, and blue paint.

This is why arguments about “procedure” miss the point. Procedures do not create righteousness. Policy manuals do not erase the image of God. If the second and third shots cannot be reconciled with neighbor-love, then they cannot be reconciled with the way of Christ. Period.

Milgram in the Pew: How Training Beats Conscience

Why do otherwise decent people defend what they know is wrong? Larken points to the Milgram experiments for a grim answer. In those studies, ordinary participants believed they were shocking strangers. They trembled. They begged to stop. They knew it was wrong. But a man in a lab coat told them to continue, and their training overpowered their conscience.

The details differ, but the mechanism is the same. Our culture trains us to obey official voices and to distrust our own moral sight. We are deputized by television dramas, press conferences, and patriotic ceremonies until our instinct is to side with uniforms and treat victims as problems. Christians are not immune. We should be. We have a King who heals the ear of His enemy in a garden and rebukes the disciple holding the blade. Yet our formation is often more Fox, CNN, and campaign season than Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Repentance here looks like deprogramming. It looks like reading Scripture as if Jesus actually meant it. It looks like confessing that we’ve excused evil because it felt safe and our team was in charge. It looks like choosing to say out loud, “That was wrong,” even when our political friends frown. In Milgram’s study, the moment one person refused, many others found courage to stop too. The Church can be that person, that voice, that pause button on cruelty.

Tactics Are Not Morals

Some Christians try to solve their discomfort by shifting the conversation: “Maybe she shouldn’t have been there.” “Maybe she should have complied.” “Maybe she should have driven away faster… or slower.” You can say a choice was unwise. You can coach your kids on better tactics when approached by armed men. But none of that baptizes murder. None of it justifies bullets.

The moral center does not move with our tactical advice. Wisdom can help us survive a sinful world; it cannot make sin righteous. When we talk about tactics to avoid talking about morals, we confess our idolatry. We tell on ourselves. We admit that we want to protect the system more than we want to protect the weak.

A healthier church would tell a different story. It would grieve a life lost. It would comfort a neighborhood. It would ask whether our habits and budgets make this kind of violence more likely. It would bless the peacemakers and retrain the reflexes that cheer for force. It would teach children that bravery looks like stepping out of the cycle of retaliation, not doubling down on it.

What the Church Should Have Said

If pastors and Christian leaders had been formed by the Sermon on the Mount, the first public words after the video surfaced would have been simple:

• “This is a tragedy. We grieve with the family.”

• “A badge does not change the image of God in a victim.”

• “Even if procedures were followed, that does not make it moral.”

• “We will not baptize state violence. We will not slander the dead.”

• “We call our people to peacemaking, not to performative outrage.”

Instead, many Christians ran interference for power. Some called the dead a terrorist. Some cherry-picked statutes. Some mocked the neighbors recording the scene. Some asked “Have you not learned?” like a playground bully, as if the point of government is to frighten the populace into submission. This language betrays a different savior. It teaches a different gospel. The cross is replaced by the sword, the pastor’s stole by the riot shield.

We can do better. We must do better. Not to score points against an agency, but to keep our own souls.

The Oldest Lie in Politics: “We’re the Good Guys”

Both major parties baptize violence when it suits their platform. The rhetoric changes. The victims change. The television graphics change. The machine does not. Larken testifies that he too once wore the stickers, cheered the raids, and trusted the system. Many of us did. Repentance looks like telling the truth about that past and refusing to repeat it. It looks like saying, out loud, “I was wrong,” then learning to see our neighbors again without the costume of ideology.

This is not cynicism. It is Christian realism. Jesus did not trust Himself to the crowds because He knew what was in man. He knew the appetite for power would twist even “good policy” into coercion. He knew fear could turn worshipers into executioners. He knew that the devil’s offer, “all the kingdoms of the world if you will bow,” still tempts believers today. That is why He called us to a narrow road.

Constitutions, Laws, and the Kingdom That Outlasts Them

Some listeners want the constitutional angle. Even there, the ground is shaky. The federal charter lists enumerated powers. It does not list a police power to regulate every person’s movement under threat of death. But the deeper Christian point is prior to all constitutions. Even if a law allowed an immoral act, it would not cease to be immoral.

The early Christians didn’t need a bill of rights to love enemies, rescue the vulnerable, and refuse idolatry. They needed a Lord. We have the same Lord. Our public discipleship should look like it.

The Kingdom Answer: Neighbor Love With Skin On

If our loyalty is to the crucified King, our answer is not primarily a hot take. Our answer is a way of life. It looks like walking toward those who are hurting. It looks like letting the doctor check a pulse instead of blocking him with the threat of pepper spray. It looks like telling truth over team loyalty. It looks like Christians becoming the people who can be trusted in a crisis because they are too busy serving to score points.

It also looks like refusing to dehumanize the agents who pulled the trigger. That does not mean excusing evil. It means telling the truth about the act while refusing to hate the actor. It means praying for justice and for their repentance. It means knowing that the same training that crushed a conscience on a street has also numbed consciences in our pews.

The way forward is not complicated, but it is costly: lay down the idolatry of political saviors and take up the cross. Pray for the courage to refuse wicked orders at every level of society. Become a people who would rather lose a platform than lose our soul.

Scripture Trail for the Church Today

• Matthew 5–7: Jesus’ constitution for the Kingdom. Peacemakers. Mercy. Enemy-love. No exceptions for uniforms.

• Romans 12 before Romans 13: Love without hypocrisy. Bless persecutors. Overcome evil with good. Read Chapter 13 in the light of Chapter 12.

• Psalm 146: Do not put your trust in princes. Their plans perish. God guards the sojourner.

• John 4; Luke 10: Jesus walks through Samaria; the neighbor is the one who shows mercy.

Let Scripture reform the reflexes shaped by talk radio and campaign seasons. Let your imagination be drenched in the Kingdom, not the headlines.

Listen & Reflect

🎧 Listen: Anywhere you find your podcasts
💬 Ask: When you see a badge, do you change your moral standard? What does that reveal about your discipleship?
📖 Read: Matthew 5–7; Romans 12–13; Psalm 146; Luke 10.
🤝 Practice: This week, serve a neighbor with no questions asked. No status check. No proof. Just love that acts.

Highlights & Takeaways

• A badge does not create a new morality. Jesus does not grant exceptions for uniforms.

• If you defend the first shot, you still must explain the others. You cannot. The second and third shots indict the soul of our authority-worship.

• Milgram wasn’t a myth. Training often beats conscience. Discipleship must train the conscience to fear God more than men.

• “Tactically unwise” is not a synonym for “deserved death.” Stop shifting the target.

• Romans 13 does not cancel the Sermon on the Mount. The cross judges empire, not the other way around.

• “No King but Christ” means one standard of love for everyone—from the poor to the powerful.

🤝Connect with Larken ROSE:

• The Jones Plantation Film

  • Platforms: Available on Apple TV, Amazon Prime, Tubi, Xmou Play, The Roku Channel, PLEX 

• The Rose Channel

• Book: The Most Dangerous Superstition 

• YouTube

• Candles in the Dark

• Facebook

Episode Timestamps:

(00:00) Framing the question: murder or self-defense? Larken returns for “Swearing Sunday.” 

• Christian allegiance vs. state power.

• Moral frame; allegiance check

• Matthew 5–7; Romans 12

• murder vs self-defense; authority; “No King but Christ”

• Previous Episodes with Larken Rose:

• EP #83 The Cult of Statism with Larken Rose

• EP #91 Breaking Down the Jones Plantation Film with Larken Rose

• EP #134 Larken Rose on Immigration and Christian Values: Challenging the Border Fetish Brigade

(00:41) Banter and burden: 

• The week’s exhaustion and why it still matters to speak.

• Choosing faithfulness over comfort; stewardship of voice

• Jeremiah 20:9

• lament; courage; speak

(01:26) Why people cheer evil: authority myths and plantation logic.

• Authority-worship; compliance culture

• How team colors override conscience

• Milgram Experiments (1963)

• obedience; idolatry; “plantation logic”

• Jones Plantation Movie

(03:40) When evil shows itself, some finally wake up.

• Shock as moral catalyst

• Ephesians 5:11

• exposure; repentance; awakening

(07:01) COVID parallels: neighbors revealed their true loyalties.

• Crisis reveals discipleship

• Romans 12 through Romans 13

• compliance; conscience; neighbor-love

(10:00) Badges and gangs: why morality cannot change with uniforms.

• Uniforms ≠ new morals

• Luke 10; early church witness

• badge; uniform; consistency – one standard for everyone.

(13:00) Craig’s Memphis test: you won’t stop to check a badge when guns are in your face.

• First agent opens the door; second moves in front of the car.

• Threat perception; staged risk

• Use-of-force: imminence

(14:17) “That was murder.” 

• Why shots two and three indict the shooter.

• No imminent threat; lethal overreach

• Matthew 5:21; proportionality

• second shot; third shot; homicide

(16:20) The physician they turned away; the shooter who fled.

• Aid refusal; post-incident flight

• Luke 10 (duty of care)

• physician; pulse check; left scene

(17:40) “Few bad apples?” Where are the good apples denouncing murder.

• Institutional silence; complicity

• Proverbs 31:8–9

• accountability; culture; complicity

(20:00) “Have you not learned?” Obedience by threat is not freedom.

• Intimidation ≠ authority

• Acts 5:29

• coercion; threat; tyranny

(21:15) Milgram: training vs. conscience and why people excuse murder.

• Training overrides conscience

• Milgram Experiments (1963) obedience study

• obedience; conditioning; conscience

(24:13) No other gods: when Christians side with Caesar over Christ.

• State-worship vs Kingdom allegiance

• Exodus 20:3; Matthew 6:24

• idolatry; Caesar; worship

• Laws/titles don’t alter morality

• Sermon on the Mount synthesis

• legalism; morality; authority claims

(33:34) “Was it murder?” clarified.

• No threat posture; face shot

• Self-defense: imminence/necessity

• face shot; no danger; overkill

(34:29) Watch his feet.

• No movement = manufactured “threat”

• Video-analysis heuristic

• feet; staging; false threat

(41:17) Tactics vs. morals: unwise choices don’t justify cages or bullets.

• Prudence ≠ moral guilt

• Romans 12:17–21

• tactics; morals; prudence

(47:17) Bootlicking theology called out.

• Excusing abuse = state worship

• Psalm 146

• princes; loyalty; idolatry

(55:55) Constitutional limits & ICE.

• Enumerated powers; no general police power

• Federalist 45 (Madison) summary

• constitution; federal power; jurisdiction

(1:06:56) Prosecution theater.

• Sacrificial pawn; delay and forget

• Prosecutorial discretion patterns

• show trial; delay; memory

(1:10:04) Signs of moral progress.

• Public conscience awakening

• Culture-shift indicators

• outrage; repentance; awareness

(1:12:37) Keep saying stuff

• Encouragement; close; credits

• Community action; sharing

• keep talking; outro; next steps

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Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

138. The Anatomy of the Statist: Unmasking the Mindset Behind Government Support with Patrick Carroll

Ever wondered why some people cling so tightly to the idea of government, even when faced with its glaring flaws? In this episode of the Bad Roman Podcast, we dive deep into the psychology of statism with Patrick Carroll, a brilliant thinker and writer who's been challenging the status quo for years.

Carroll's insights are like a splash of cold water to the face of conventional wisdom. He doesn't just critique government supporters – he dissects their motivations with surgical precision. And trust us, what he reveals will make you question everything you thought you knew about politics and society.

The Statist's Playbook: 10 Characteristics You Need to Know

Carroll breaks down the statist mindset into 10 distinct characteristics. It's like he's giving us a field guide to spot government supporters in the wild. But here's the kicker – it's not about judging them. It's about understanding why they think the way they do, so we can have more productive conversations and maybe, just maybe, change some minds.

1. The Humanitarian: The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions

You know that friend who's always talking about how we need more government programs to help the poor? That's the humanitarian statist. Their heart's in the right place, but their solution is all wrong.

Carroll nails it when he says:

"The humanitarian impulse is great. Obviously, I also care about helping people. But I think it's important when we're trying to address why someone is pro-government to wrestle with the fact that they have a really compelling reason in their mind."

Here's the thing – we all want to help people. But using government force to do it? That's like trying to perform surgery with a sledgehammer. It might get the job done, but at what cost?

2. The Egalitarian: When Equality Becomes Tyranny

Ever heard someone say, "It's not fair that some people have so much more than others"? That's the egalitarian statist talking. They see inequality as inherently unjust and think the government should level the playing field.

But as Carroll points out:

"Even if we agree that maybe there's some value in creating a certain amount of equality in society, is that something that we should be coercing?"

It's a tough pill to swallow, but sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. Forced equality often leads to less prosperity for everyone.

3. The Paternalist: Big Brother Knows Best

This one's a doozy. The paternalist statist thinks they know what's best for you better than you do. They're the ones pushing for laws to ban "dangerous" foods or regulate every aspect of your life "for your own good."

Carroll hits the nail on the head:

"It's this very kind of self-righteous attitude of 'I know best, or you know, the government, us and our experts know best and don't worry, we're just going to take care of you.'"

Newsflash: Adults don't need a nanny state. We're capable of making our own decisions, thank you very much.

4. The Special Interest Group Member: Looking Out for Number One

This statist is all about using government power to benefit their group. Whether it's farmers lobbying for subsidies or corporations pushing for regulations that crush their competition, it's all about gaming the system.

Carroll doesn't pull any punches:

"It’s like you're telling me that you're willing to forcibly coerce other people purely so that you can financially benefit. How is that different from a thief going up to a guy in the street and holding a gun and saying, give me your wallet?"

Ouch. But he's not wrong. Using government force to line your own pockets is theft with extra steps.

5. The Risk Mitigator: Safety at Any Cost

Gun control advocates often fall into this category. They're so focused on reducing risk that they're willing to sacrifice freedom in the process.

Carroll offers a brilliant reframe:

"We live in a dangerous world, and that sucks. And definitely, I believe in systems like insurance to mitigate risk. I think mitigating risk is important. But we shouldn't be coercing people into mitigating risks."

Safety is important, but at what point does the cure become worse than the disease?

6. The Utilitarian: The Greatest Good for the Greatest Number?

This statist believes in maximizing social welfare through government intervention. They talk about "market failures" and think the state can fix them.

Carroll's skepticism is spot-on:

"I really question whether we can do any objective kind of social welfare calculations... And so I'm very skeptical of this idea that we can measure social welfare, let alone have the government come in and optimize it."

Even if you could measure social welfare, does that justify using force to achieve it?

7. The Theocrat: Legislating Morality, Putting more “Christians” in Office

Some statists, especially in religious circles, believe it's their duty to use government power to enforce moral or religious values.

Carroll offers a powerful counterargument:

"Is it really Christian to force morality on people? I totally understand the drive, but I would encourage Christians to really study the Bible and look at this."

Forcing virtue at gunpoint isn't virtuous at all.

8. The Resigned Follower: It's Just the Way Things Are

This statist has given up. They might agree with libertarian principles in theory, but they think a voluntary society is impossible.

Carroll's response is inspiring:

"I don't share that pessimism... I think we just need to look at history to have faith in the market."

Just because something hasn't been done yet doesn't mean it's impossible.

9. The Megalomaniac: Power for Power's Sake

Some people just love having power over others. It's a sad reality, but these statists exist.

Carroll's advice is simple:

"I think we just need to gang up on those people and tell them no, like, sorry, you're not going to get your way and you're not going to use us as pawns."

No elaboration needed. Power-hungry individuals have no place in a free society.

10. The Intolerant: The Heart of Statism

This is the core of the statist mentality. All the other characteristics boil down to this:

"At the end of the day, the conclusion is, I am going to be intolerant of you living your life as you see fit. I'm going to force you to comply with my value system and my personal beliefs. And that is something that every statist shares by definition."

It's a harsh truth, but an important one. Statism, at its core, is about forcing others to live according to your values. It's not about left vs. right. It's about whether you're willing to use force to make others live the way you think they should.

What We Learned About the Statist Mindset

This episode is a wake-up call. It challenges us to examine our own beliefs about government and ask some tough questions:

• Are we truly tolerant if we support using force to make others live as we think they should?

• Can we achieve our goals of helping others and creating a better society without resorting to government coercion?

• Are we willing to apply the same moral standards to government actions that we apply to individuals?

The answers might make you uncomfortable. But that discomfort is the first step towards a more consistent and ethical worldview.

Ready to have your mind blown? Listen to the full episode and prepare to see the world in a whole new light. And remember – questioning the status quo isn't just rebellious. It's necessary for a free and just society.

🤝Connect with Patrick:

• Blog

• Facebook Page

• Twitter (X), 

• The Prudent Navigator (website/blog)

• Read Patrick’s Mises Institute Articles

• Read or Listen to The Anatomy of a Statist article

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Patrick Carroll returns to discuss "The Anatomy of the Statist"

• Exploration of the Statist mentality and its challenges

• Previous appearances on episodes 16 and 55

• Episode 16: If You Vote You Can’t Complain

• Episode 55: Is Taxation Slavery?

(0:58) Patrick's recent work and philosophical journey

• Managing editor at Foundation for Economic Education

• Focus on economics, policy, and libertarian philosophy

• Influence of thinkers like Nietzsche, Rothbard, and classical liberals

(4:17) Discussion on Patrick's writing style and approach

• Larken Rose on the Bad Roman

• Episode 83: The Cult of Statism 

• Episode 91: Breaking Down the Jones Plantation

• Episode 134: Immigration and Christian Values: Challenging the Border Fetish Brigade

• Emphasis on direct, matter-of-fact communication

• Importance of consistency in thinking and living out principles

(5:47) The appeal of libertarian philosophy

• Internal consistency and principled approach

• Rejection of exceptions to moral principles

(7:45) Breaking the framing of political conversations

• Libertarianism as a refreshing alternative to left-right dichotomy

• Questioning cultural assumptions about government

(10:37) The Anatomy of the Statist: 10 characteristics

• Humanitarian impulse and its relation to statism

• Egalitarian motivations for government intervention

(17:47) The utilitarian perspective on government

• Market failure arguments and social welfare calculations

• Skepticism towards government optimization of social welfare

(23:17) The theocrat and Christian involvement in politics

• Critique of using government to enforce Christian morality

• Biblical perspective on non-interference and servant leadership

(31:41) The risk mitigator and government regulation

• Gun control as an example of risk mitigation through legislation

• Alternative approaches to risk management without coercion

(53:57) The megalomaniac and power dynamics of government

• Addressing those who seek power for its own sake

• Importance of resisting authoritarian tendencies

(56:24) The heart of the statist: intolerance

• Common thread of compelling others to live by one's values

• Contrast with libertarian principles of live and let live

(59:52) Taxation as theft: beyond metaphor

• Clarifying the libertarian position on taxation

• Ethical implications of equating taxation with common theft

(1:03:43) Free market principles and conservative inconsistencies

• Critique of tariffs and government regulation

• Importance of genuine free market understanding

(1:05:31) Conclusion and resources

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Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

134. Larken Rose on Immigration and Christian Values: Challenging the Border Fetish Brigade

What happens when immigration policies clash with Christian values? Craig sits down with Larken Rose to dissect the complexities of immigration, focusing on the criticisms of past and current policies across administrations, what is novel about Trump’s border approach, and the inconsistencies in how some Christians approach these issues. The conversation challenges listeners to scrutinize their beliefs and the language surrounding immigration.

Key Topics:

1. Demonization of Immigrants Under Trump: Larken Rose highlights how Trump's administration has intensified the demonization of immigrants, creating a category of "undesirables." He draws parallels to historical tyrants who gained power by instilling fear of a common enemy. 

2. Libertarian Inconsistencies: The discussion shifts to Dave Smith, a libertarian figure who supports Trump's immigration policies. Larken criticizes libertarians who abandon their principles on immigration, pointing out the hypocrisy in supporting authoritarian measures while claiming to champion individual liberty.

3. Christian Perspectives on Immigration Laws: Christians’ support for harsh immigration policies and "Jesus would follow the law" are examined. Do such stances contradict Jesus' teachings?

4. Self-Reflection and Consistency: Larken concludes with a positive note on the power of self-reflection. He suggests that significant positive change could occur if well-intentioned people critically examined their beliefs for inconsistencies, rather than trying to change the minds of those with opposing views.

Notable Quotes:

"Obama and going back forever the immigration thuggery…it's not at all new. Trump didn't invent that. But what we're seeing a lot more of right now is the demonization of a whole category of people, those ‘illegals’." - Larken Rose

"One of the first things where it really dawned on me that maybe I was thinking about this differently is the fact that we're calling a person “illegal” because they crossed a border that was created by corrupt elitist." - Craig Harguess

Join Craig and Larken as they navigate these topics, and reflect on liberty, ownership, and the state control and power that can be seized amid public outrage. In the full episode, you’ll find a thought-provoking discussion that questions the status quo at the intersection of faith and immigration.

Connect with Larken:

• The Jones Plantation Film

  • Platforms: Available on Apple TV, Amazon Prime, Tubi, Xmou Play, The Roku Channel, PLEX 

• The Rose Channel

• Book: The Most Dangerous Superstition 

• YouTube

• Candles in the Dark

• Facebook

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Immigration and Morality

• Larken Rose returns as a guest to tackle this contentious issue.

(0:51) The Current Immigration Crisis

• Examination of the current immigration situation and its portrayal in the media.

• Comparison of deportation statistics across different U.S. administrations.

• Concerns were raised about the use of detention centers, likened to concentration camps.

• Where was Auschwitz 

(2:52) The "Undesirables" Narrative

• Larken discusses the historical demonization of immigrants as "undesirables."

• Comparison to tactics used by tyrannical regimes to gain power.

(5:57) Christian Perspectives on Immigration

• Christian community's response to immigration policies.

• Calls for a more compassionate, Christ-like approach to the issue.

(10:14) Trump and Authoritarian Rhetoric

• Discussion of Trump's rhetoric, with comparisons to historical authoritarian figures.

• The term "Mango Mussolini" is introduced as a humorous yet pointed critique.

(14:42) Humor as Resistance

• The role of humor in challenging authoritarianism and political figures.

• Balancing humor with the gravity of political issues.

(18:21) Biblical Insights on Authority

• Reflection on how early Christians and Jesus challenged state authority.

• Encouragement for Christians to consider these examples in modern contexts.

(21:07) Libertarian Views on Immigration

• Critique of libertarian inconsistencies regarding immigration.

• Discussion on fear-based versus principle-based decision-making.

(24:29) Fear as a Political Tool

• Analysis of how fear is used to manipulate public opinion on immigration.

• A call for courage and adherence to principles in the face of fear.

(29:23) Language and Labels

• Examination of the term "illegal immigrant" and its implications.

• A Christian perspective on the dehumanization inherent in such labels.

(38:46) Jesus and Legal Compliance

• Addressing claims that Jesus would adhere to immigration laws.

• Historical context of early Christianity's defiance of Roman law.

(54:45) The "Do You Lock Your Doors?" Argument

• Larken challenges common pro-border control arguments.

• Discussion of personal property rights versus national borders.

(59:59) The Mirror Project

• Introduction to Larken's project aimed at encouraging self-reflection and consistency in beliefs.

• Emphasis on examining personal values and beliefs.

(1:02:57) Closing Thoughts and Resources

• Information on Larken's work, including "The Jones Plantation" film.

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Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

91. Breaking Down the Jones Plantation Film with Larken Rose

About this Episode

What would it look like if we peeled back the curtains of societal discourse and examined the bitter truths often swept under the rug? How would our perspectives shift if we truly understood the power dynamics that govern our world? In a dynamic and insightful discussion, the Bad Roman Project welcomes back Larken Rose to the podcast, as we delve into the thought-provoking themes presented in the Jones Plantation film. Our discussion centers around the film's potent representation of debt, enslavement, and the manipulative nature of political language.

In the latter part of our conversation, we admire the production brilliance behind the Jones Plantation film. From its low-budget brilliance to the unique concept of breaking the fourth wall, we explore how the movie engages its audience in a critical examination of the sociopolitical landscape. Echoing the ethos of the Bad Roman Podcast, we also discuss how the film encourages viewers to think independently, drawing their own conclusions and interpretations.

Finally, we reflect on the reactions to the Jones Plantation film and its potential long-term impact. We examine the significance of the film's symbolism and the truths it presents, prompting viewers to examine their beliefs and biases. As we dissect the captivating symbolism and raw truths embedded in the film, we invite you to join us in this compelling discourse. Prepare to be intrigued by Larken's insightful reflections and ready to engage in a conversation that promises to stir thought and stimulate dialogue.

Larken Rose:

The Most Dangerous Superstition 

YouTube

Candles in the Dark

Facebook

The Jones Plantation Film

The Book: https://www.thejonesplantation.com/

Episode Timestamps:

 01:04 Larken Rose 

• Importance of recognizing what is required for peaceful coexistence

• Podcasts, Joe Rogan, erosion of corporate media’s influence

4:45 Feedback from Nonanarchists on The Jones Plantation (2023)

• Mr. Smith in the movie equates slaves to livestock

• Herd mentality, IRS example

• Jones Plantation Novel

• How easy are people to exploit?

9:19 Church Imagery in Movie

• Was it intentional?

• Any ideology (including religion) could be weaponized to control populations

• Mr. Smith acts as a (bad) minister

13:39 Casting 

• Mariuce Johnson as Mr. Smith

• The cast had not met until the shoot started 

14:59 Larken’s Role(s) in the film

• Police Officer, bank teller

• Keeping People in Debt

• Proverbs 22:7  

• Covid and Obedience

• The Federal Reserve System

• Political parasites on money

20:49 Murder of the Child in the Movie (spoiler alert)

• Plantation owners’ anger than acceptance and embrace of it

• False Flags

• When things go wrong psychopaths can grab power

• The state gets its power from your suffering

• Celebrity Response to Maui Fire

• The purpose of giving is to be of service not show people how great you are

• Importance of having workers’ perspective in Jone’s Plantation

• What discussions are had behind closed doors?

• How far will people go for power?

28:46 Dissecting the Political Capmgim Scenes in the Film

• Backroom meeting

• Parallels to a real Election Processes 

• Theatre of opposition

• Was Obama truly grassroots?

• #votejones

35:52 Examing the Beating of Samuel in the Film

• “The harder you struggle the tighter your chains become”

• Danger of the fear-based crowd

• Would you be on the right side?

40:20 Bad Roman Discussion Group Questions

• Why break the fourth wall?

• How much was planned v. happy accidents via budget constraints?

• Andrew as “the department”

• Biblical relevance to Samuel on purpose?

• Explain the self-flogging scene

• What we see people do can vary greatly from what they do when no one is looking

• Was the cast all on board with the ideas of the movie? 

• What has the feedback been?

1:00:00 Where to find the film and connect with Larken Rose

• The Film:  jonesplatation.com

• The Book: https://www.thejonesplantation.com/

• The Most Dangerous Superstition 

• YouTube

• Candles in the Dark

• Facebook

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83. The Cult of Statism with Larken Rose

About this Episode

Prominent anarchist activist and author Larken Rose joins Craig for a lively discussion on deprogramming people from the cult of statism. People are mostly inherently good at heart but have been indoctrinated from a young age to believe that government is a legitimate authority. Larken Rose makes a clear case for the immorality of government. Larken and Craig discuss how to engage statists using methods designed to combat their cognitive biases and awaken their inner anarchist.

Government preys on people's fears to keep them voting for corrupt politicians' forcible domination of their neighbors. To keep the rules, the ruling class (politicians) have enforcers (police) empowered to engage in acts of violence that most voters would bulk at committing against another human beings. Thus, when Christians vote, they are unwittingly breaking Jesus' golden rule and doing to others the exact opposite of what they want to have done to themselves. 

Christians should be the most suspicious of the state as it is a competing religious entity with all the rituals, fancy buildings and pomp. But unfortunately, some Christians strongly believe in the state and its illegitimate rulers even more than they believe in Jesus. These Christians need to be gently shown the contradictions in their beliefs and that when they advocate for a human ruler, they advocate for the subjugation of themselves and their neighbors. True followers of Jesus should see that Christianity and the cult of statism oppose each other, but Christianity and anarchy are not mutually exclusive.

Larken Rose:

The Most Dangerous Superstition 

YouTube

Candles in the Dark

Facebook

Episode Timestamps:

4:17 – About Larken Rose:

• Taught to doubt and debate ideas from a young age

• Began trying to decide what a legitimate or moral government looks like

• Accidentally fell off the political spectrum

• Realized that 'legitimate government' is an oxymoron

• Government has no special power to rob or legislate

• Assumes people have consciences and can distinguish right from wrong

• That's why he's an anarchist

•  Doesn't care what people say they believe about religion

• How they treat other people matters

• Do they abide by the non-aggression principle?

• If the government disappeared suddenly, Larken would prefer to be around Christian Statists than some atheist anarchists

• They are nicer people without the political monstrosity

• The quality of people matters most

16:09 – What currently ails the world?

• People have been taught to believe that when evil is committed by government authorities, it is no longer evil

• Individuals are tricked into cheering for evil

• Even Hitler, Stalin and Mao

• They fall for the false god

• Because their fears are played on

• Christians gloss over Matthew 20:25-28

• David Bently Hart New Testament Translation

24:33 – How to awaken someone else's inner anarchist

• People know the corruption of government but try not to know at the same time

• Larken Rose asks others to be personal, literal and specific while asking questions about why they need the government

• If they respond, "protect the innocent"

• Larken asks, "If I found a more efficient way to protect the innocent and refuse to pay for police. What should happen to me?"

• They get uncomfortable as Larken asks them to be specific about what should happen.

• They don't want to blurt out the violence of government

• No arguing is required

• Because if they advocate for a government they are advocating violence against peaceful citizens

• Wanting to "help the poor" is no longer fluffy-sounding goodness

• Should only the state have all the guns?

• Candles in the Dark

• No one wants to admit the violence they condone

• They don't dare look at the conflicts in their beliefs

• We need to lead them to the cognitive dissonance

41:36 – Don't do unto others what you don't want them to do unto you 

• Literally every voter does exactly what they don't want the other side to do to them

• Democracy is the best trick tyrants ever came up with

• It makes people mad at each other

• It makes people consent and vote for evil

• Politicians are all feasting together and laughing at your fears

• Did you just enable evil?

• The other bad guy option is irrelevant

• You cheer for your own subjugation

• You victimize everybody when you vote

• Jesus advocated serving others not lording it over them

• The Soviet Union, China and North Korea are all Constitutional Republics and have their own Bill of Rights

• It's wrong to ask someone else to commit evil for you

• Everyone who votes is a hypocrite without knowing it

• They vote for others to do things they know would be wrong if they did it themselves

• They are not going to go door-to-door to rob people to give to the poor

54:39 – Statism is a religion

• It has rituals, ceremonies, grandiose halls, pomp and tradition

• Voting is just choosing your new god

• The pieces of paper are religious texts

• Statism: The Most Dangerous Religion

• Government authority is not a real thing

• Pledging allegiance in churches doesn't happen in other nations

• Vaccines in churches

• It's frustrating to try to talk people out of their programming

• Need to use cult deprogramming tactics

• Belief in government is a cult

• They don't realize they hold a faith

• If people were living in a free society and someone came along and suggested we give them the power to forcibly rob and dominate we would say, 'no'

• But every election comes down to, 'give me power over you and everyone you know'

• People become violent if you dare bash the pledge of allegiance or trample on the flag

• Belief in government is a faith; not practical or logical

• People are trained to pledge loyalty to the authoritarian rulers of the US

• People are horrified if you admit to being unpatriotic

• Some Christians will become more upset when they hear, "I don't believe in government"
  then when they hear, "I don't believe in God"

• Government is what they really believe in

• Sometimes you need to offend people to shake them out of their indoctrination

1:08:28 – Government: The largest gang

• Without government, there would still be bad actors, but they would not be able to marshal the firepower that governments have

• People feel morally obliged to give them their extortion fees 

• All of the governmental power comes from the people they duped

• Taxpayers and enforcers

• Congressmen will not come to try to take your money personally

• They use it to make nuclear warheads and tanks

• Corporations cannot make us buy their products; if they tried, people would wipe them out

• No gang can enslave the population of the US

• Larken Rose is optimistic

• If people start ignoring the government and human rulers, the government is done

• The evil people are way outnumbered by good

• Rulers are just people

1:18:07 - Religion and anarchism are not mutually exclusive

• People can use gods to justify violence against others or as a standard to live by

• Government can never be legitimate, but belief in god is not automatically bad

• Not automatically authoritarian

• Religion has been used in the past to create authoritarian rulers too

• If society's standard is not initiating violence against others, that will allow peaceful co-existence

• It allows friendly discussions on all sorts of topics

• Christians have a reason to identify as anarchists: Jesus Christ

• Christian, who do you pay tribute to? Whom do you ask to save you from your enemies? If its people in Washington, you need to consider who your god is

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