addiction

163. Faith, Politics, & the War Within: Allegiance, Grace & Addiction with Josif Wright

What happens when the beliefs we were handed no longer look like Jesus?

Maybe we were taught that America was God’s special nation. Maybe we were told that supporting war was patriotic, voting was a Christian duty, and questioning a pastor showed weak faith. Then one day, we opened the Gospels and noticed something strange: Jesus did not sound much like the system built in His name.

Josif Wright knows that feeling. He is a public-school teacher, longtime coach, hospice chaplain, former youth minister, and church speaker. He has spent years helping young people think, grieving with families, and asking hard questions about what Christians have been taught. He is also the author of The War Within: My Story, a father’s account of his son Ryan’s long struggle with addiction.

At first, Christian nationalism and addiction may sound like two separate subjects. Yet the same thread runs through both parts of this conversation: our desire to control people.

The state controls through laws, fear, taxes, borders, and violence. Religious leaders may control through shame and claims of unquestionable authority. Families facing addiction may try to control a loved one because they are scared to death of losing them.

But Jesus shows us another way. Truth without coercion. Grace without denial. Love that stays close without trying to play God.

“Don’t Trust the Government and Be Kind to People”

Josif teaches Jobs for America’s Graduates, or JAG. There is a curriculum, but no single textbook. That gives him room to discuss work, current events, faith, and life with his students.

After one test, Josif asked his class what they had learned so far. One senior wrote:

“Don’t trust the government and be kind to people.” — Student response, around 04:25

That is a pretty strong report card.

The line is funny, but it also gets close to the heart of this episode. Government asks us to believe that force will keep us safe. Jesus asks us to love our neighbors. Empire teaches suspicion. Christ teaches mercy.

Josif’s classroom sometimes turns into a kind of group therapy session. His students ask why people are being bombed. They question the stories adults have handed them. Josif does not demand that they copy his answers. He wants them to think.

That may be one of the most loving things a teacher, or a pastor, can do.

When Questions Become an Act of Faith

Josif’s change did not happen in one dramatic moment. One question led to another.

He began looking again at teachings about tithing, women in ministry, Israel, government, and Romans 13. The more he studied, the more he wondered how much of his old certainty had come from Scripture and how much had come from people with microphones.

He now tells both his students and his church congregation to do their own research. Do not accept a claim just because it comes from a pulpit, a podcast, or a person with a title.

“God wants us to think and ask questions,” Josif says.

God can handle those questions. The harder question may be whether we can handle the answers.

Real faith does not need us to hide from truth. It does not fall apart when we examine it. Sometimes asking better questions is how we clear away the rubble and find Jesus again.

God Is Pro-People

The hardest part of Christian nationalism may be the way it divides human beings into teams.

We are told that one nation is righteous, another nation is evil, and the people living under each flag somehow inherit those labels. Once we accept that story, violence becomes easy to excuse. Dead children become “collateral damage.” Grieving parents become members of the wrong group.

Josif offers a simpler answer:

“I’m not pro-Israel, pro-Palestine. I think God is pro-people.” — 08:30

That does not erase history or pain. It does not mean every action is good. It means every person remains an image-bearer.

No modern nation-state gets a blank check from Jesus. The command to love does not stop at a border. Christ does not ask for our enemy’s passport before telling us to pray for them.

As Josif later says, we are called to love people “no matter who they are.”

The Flag Beside the Cross

Josif remembers churches where people stood, faced the American flag, and pledged their allegiance during worship. At the time, it felt normal.

That is how idols often work. They do not walk into the sanctuary wearing devil horns. They arrive wrapped in tradition.

Josif now sees the conflict clearly:

“We should be pledging allegiance to the King—to King Jesus—and not to a flag.” — 22:42

The Pledge of Allegiance is not only a promise to a piece of cloth. It is a promise to “the republic for which it stands.” That raises a question Christians cannot avoid: can our highest allegiance belong to both Jesus and an empire?

Jesus said we cannot serve two masters.

This does not require hatred for our neighbors, veterans, or the land where we live. Josif speaks with care about those who returned from war with lost limbs, trauma, homelessness, or despair. His concern is not contempt for people. It is the worship of the machine that used them.

“No King but Christ” means what it says. No president, nation, pastor, party, or flag gets the loyalty that belongs to Jesus.

When Pastors “Call the Shots”

Josif’s questions also led him to challenge church authority built on fear.

He remembers pastors saying things such as, “Don’t challenge me,” and, “I call the shots.” But that is not the leadership Jesus modeled. Jesus knelt. Jesus washed feet. Jesus warned His disciples not to rule like the kings of the nations.

Josif no longer stands behind a pulpit when he speaks. He comes down to the same level as the people in the room. The movement is small, but the message is clear: we are learning together.

Religious control and state control often speak the same language. Both demand submission. Both punish questions. Both build systems that benefit the people at the top.

Josif believes much of this is fear-based. Fear of punishment. Fear of disorder. Fear that everything will collapse unless a strong leader takes control.

But Christians already have a King. We do not need to manufacture another one.

Walking Away from Political Salvation

Josif once considered running for local office. He voted because that was what responsible Christians were expected to do. He even heard pastors suggest that a person was not a real Christian unless they voted.

Today, his view is different.

He no longer expects the political system to bring the Kingdom of God. He has watched systems change people more often than people change systems. Craig makes the point plainly: being “the light of the world” does not mean ruling over our neighbors.

Light looks like enemy-love. It looks like feeding people, telling the truth, forgiving, serving, and refusing to repay evil with evil.

We do not become more Christlike by gaining the legal power to force people to behave as we wish. Jesus changes hearts through invitation, truth, sacrifice, and love, not through a ballot-backed threat.

The Other War Within

Around the middle of the episode, the conversation shifts. The flag gives way to a father’s journal. Political control gives way to the helplessness of watching someone you love suffer.

Josif’s son Ryan dealt with childhood migraines and chronic pain. Pills were available. Pain relief slowly became something else. Feelings of being unloved, painful losses, broken trust, and the death of his grandmother added to the weight.

Josif wrote The War Within from a parent’s point of view. He did not want to write it at first. Returning to old journal pages brought the fear and grief back to life. Yet writing also became part of his healing.

For years, addiction shaped the whole family. Josif and his wife described their condition in medical terms. Sometimes they were stable. Sometimes critical. Sometimes on life support.

“I had a knot in my stomach for a decade,” Josif says. “Addiction is a beast.”

Love Cannot Force Someone Free

Families dealing with addiction know the terrible urge to fix everything.

Find the right rehab. Make the right phone call. Drive another three hours. Say the right prayer. Watch more closely. Try harder.

Josif drove across the state again and again during one terrible month. Ryan told him, “The hooks are in so deep. I don’t know how I’m going to get out of this.”

Then someone at a church service offered Josif a hard word:

“You’re trying too hard. You’re trying to control the situation. Just step back. Just let God be God.” — 44:05

Letting go did not mean Josif stopped loving Ryan. It meant admitting that a father could not become his son’s savior.

Three days later, Ryan called and asked Josif to come get him. Recovery was not smooth or simple. There were setbacks. There was detox, long treatment, reading, faith, and a slow rebuilding of life. Josif says Ryan had been clean for eight years at the time of the recording.

The story is not a formula. Every person and every recovery path is different. It is a witness to grace that kept showing up.

More Than a Label

Josif challenges the shame often placed on people with addictions.

Churches may call people dirty, hopeless, or permanently defined by the worst part of their lives. Josif points instead to the New Testament language of new creation, saints, and a royal priesthood.

That does not mean pretending harm never happened. Grace tells the truth. But grace also refuses to reduce a human being to a label.

Craig connects this to his brother TJ, who died after struggling with alcohol and depression. TJ was not a bad person. He was a peaceful man who carried pain and could not find a way out.

The stories of Ryan and TJ remind us that addiction touches more than one body. It reaches parents, siblings, spouses, children, and friends. Yet shame does not heal anyone.

Love may not control the outcome, but it can keep the door open.

“God Just Calls Us to Love”

Near the end, Josif talks about the people he has met in treatment centers and recovery spaces.

“They are wonderful people,” he says.

Addiction can lead people to say and do awful things. Families need boundaries. Harm should not be denied. But the addiction is not the whole person.

Josif remembers hearing someone use cruel terms for people struggling with drugs. After she read his book, her language changed.

“We’re all struggling with something… God doesn’t call us to judge. He just calls us to love.” — 54:40

There is the thread connecting both halves of this episode.

Christian nationalism looks at enemies and asks how the state can control them. Religious legalism looks at sinners and asks how the church can shame them. Fearful families may look at addiction and ask how they can force someone to change.

Jesus meets people without turning them into projects.

He tells the truth. He protects the wounded. He resists coercion. He loves without pretending. He lays down His own life rather than taking someone else’s.

Flags demand allegiance. Shame demands hiding. Jesus invites us into truth, freedom, mercy, and love. That is the Kingdom.

🤝Connect with Josif🤝

Highlights & Takeaways

  • Questioning inherited teaching can be an act of faith, not rebellion.

  • No modern nation deserves unconditional Christian loyalty or support.

  • A flag in a sanctuary can quietly teach divided allegiance.

  • “Be the light” means loving and serving people—not gaining power over them.

  • Fear-based pastors often mirror the control methods of the state.

  • Addiction affects entire families, and recovery cannot be forced from the outside.

  • People struggling with addiction are still image-bearers, not insults or labels.

  • Grace tells the truth while refusing to abandon the person.

Listen

Notice where Josif’s political awakening and his family’s addiction story overlap. Listen for the moments when control fails and mercy begins.

Reflect

Where has fear shaped your faith? Have you placed more hope in a political leader, pastor, program, or personal plan than in the patient way of Jesus?

Read

Read Matthew 5:43–48, Galatians 3:26–29, John 18:33–38, and 2 Corinthians 5:17. Ask what these passages say about enemies, identity, nations, and new creation.

Practice

Sit with someone who is struggling without trying to fix them in the first five minutes. Listen, learn their story, and offer one form of help they are willing to receive.

Episode Breakdown:

(00:00) Leaving Christian nationalism

(02:42) Meet Josif Wright

  • Public-school educator and coach

  • Hospice chaplain and church speaker

  • Rare-disease advocacy

(04:20) “Don’t trust the government and be kind”

  • JAG classroom lessons

  • Student questions about war

  • Thinking beyond the curriculum

(07:02) Questioning old church teaching

  • Doing your own research

  • Pastors and microphones

  • Tithing, ministry, and inherited claims

(08:30) God is pro-people

  • Israel and Palestine

  • Galatians and human identity

  • Love beyond political teams

(11:22) Nation-state Israel and Christian nationalism

(16:19) Josif’s slow change of mind

  • No single conversion moment

  • Five years of deep rethinking

  • Regret without hiding

(19:14) Digging deeper into Scripture

  • Original-language study

  • Romans 13 questions

  • The Bible beyond American assumptions

(21:40) Legalism, flags, and fear

  • National symbols in worship

  • Authoritarian pastors

  • Submission benefiting institutions

(25:18) Two masters and the pledge

  • Allegiance to the republic

  • Craig’s personal conviction

  • Flag beside the cross

(27:37) Students who will not stand

  • Classroom Pledge of Allegiance

  • Respect without forced participation

  • Younger people questioning nationalism

(29:10) Voting and political identity

  • “Real Christians vote”

  • Leaving party categories

  • Josif’s changing civic habits

(33:17) Being light without ruling

  • Neighbor-love and enemy-love

  • Political office and coercion

  • Trust in Christ beyond collapsing systems

(34:53) Introducing The War Within

  • Ryan’s decade-long addiction

  • Craig’s memories of TJ

  • Grief as shared ground

(36:10) Writing from a father’s view

  • Journals and painful memories

  • Ryan’s permission

  • Writing as therapy

(37:10) Pain beneath addiction

  • Childhood migraines

  • Pills and chronic pain

  • Loss, loneliness, and grief

(40:00) A family on life support

  • Years of fear

  • Multiple treatment programs

  • Limits of short-term fixes

(42:35) “The hooks are in so deep”

  • December 2016

  • Repeated drives to help Ryan

  • Belief, struggle, and grace

(44:05) Letting God be God

  • Releasing control

  • Prayer across states and nations

  • Trust without clear answers

(45:00) “Come get me”

  • Leaving the heroin house

  • Home detox

  • A new opening

(46:00) Building a life after addiction

  • Reading and new interests

  • Setbacks without surrender

  • Finding the next step

(47:10) Eight years and a new identity

  • Recovery and freedom

  • New-creation language

  • Saints instead of shame

(51:00) Craig remembers TJ

  • Depression and alcohol

  • COVID-era isolation

  • Limits of family control

(53:40) Changing how churches speak

  • People beyond their addiction

  • Cruel labels challenged

  • Love where people are

(55:56) Where to find Josif

  • Book retailers

  • Social media and email

  • Free copies for people in need


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130. Overcoming Addiction and Finding Wellness with Elena Wang

About this Episode

Elena Wang, a health coach and former addict, shares her radical journey of transformation. Once trapped in childhood obesity and a 15-year methamphetamine addiction, Elena has emerged as a living testament to resilience, intentionality, and self-governance. Her story is one of reclaiming bodily autonomy—a core principle for those who reject the systems that seek to control our lives, whether through addiction, consumerism, or coercion.

We dive deep into the realities of addiction and recovery, particularly the devastating effects of meth and fentanyl-laced substances. Elena speaks candidly about the spiritual and psychological battle of addiction, the way it severs personal freedom, and the importance of rebuilding trust with oneself and others.

But true liberation isn’t just about breaking free from addiction—it’s about restoring the body as a temple and aligning daily choices with God’s design for health and wholeness. Elena shares how real food, self-discipline, and holistic health practices played a pivotal role in her healing. She advocates for a low-carb, ketogenic diet, exposing the lies of corporate food industries and emphasizing the power of self-sufficiency in nutrition.

Key Takeaways:

  1. Addiction and Sovereignty – Addiction is a form of enslavement. Elena’s journey highlights the power of reclaiming control over the body and mind.

  2. ‘Temple’ Restoration – Health is a spiritual act. What we consume—physically, mentally, and spiritually—either strengthens or weakens us.

  3. Building Habits for Freedom – Discipline creates freedom. Elena shares how habit stacking leads to lasting change, making it easier to sustain a life of health, purpose, and independence.

Elena also opens up about managing her Keto Wang Facebook page, navigating censorship, online backlash, and digital boundaries in a world that often suppresses dissenting voices.

At its core, Elena’s story is a call to radical ownership—of health, of choices, and of life itself. If you believe that true freedom starts with taking responsibility for yourself, this episode is for you.

Connect with Elena:

Episode Timestamps:

(01:01) Elena's Background and Addiction Story

  • Childhood trauma and morbid obesity

  • 15-year methamphetamine addiction (age 15-30)

  • Unique experience: Gaining weight while using meth due to sugar binging

(06:27) Turning Point at Age 30

  • Decision to get clean and start a health journey

(09:06) Methamphetamine Addiction Discussion

  • Long-term effects of meth use

  • Comparison to alcohol addiction

  • Fentanyl's impact on current meth crisis

(15:17) Recreational Drug Use and Addiction

  • Dangers of "dabbling" in hard drugs

  • Social circles and their influence on addiction

(19:14) Elena's Recovery Journey

  • Using marijuana to transition off harder drugs

  • Quitting alcohol after hospitalization for pancreatitis

(22:12) Motivation for Getting Clean

  • Fear of deportation for husband

  • Desire to reconnect with family

  • Recognizing the need for change

(24:52) Sugar Addiction and Diet

  • Similarities between sugar and drug addiction

  • Importance of whole foods and proper nutrition

(30:36) Government Involvement in Health

  • Skepticism about government-led health initiatives

  • Importance of individual responsibility for health

(36:32) Hack Your Health Program

  • Evolution from Keto-focused to overall healthy lifestyle

  • Coaching services and biohacking approach

(44:00) Nutrition as Foundation for Health

  • Prioritizing nutrition before exercise

  • Addressing food addiction

(45:39) Exercise and Sleep Balance

  • Importance of consistent, gradual exercise habits

  • Balancing workouts with adequate sleep for recovery

(49:55) Social Media and Dealing with Trolls

  • Handling controversial topics and negative comments

  • Setting boundaries for online interactions

(56:04) Closing Thoughts and Contact Information

  • Importance of health for oneself and loved ones

  • Elena's social media presence and coaching services

  • Upcoming Hack Your Health event in Tampa (November 2025)

(1:02:32) Final Message on Addiction Recovery

  • Encouragement for those struggling with addiction

  • Emphasizing the impact on loved ones as motivation for change


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125. Social Media Overload: Digital Detox & True Community with Blaklee Ramsey

About this Episode

Are you ready to dive down the digital rabbit hole? Buckle up, because this episode takes you on a wild ride through the world of social media, podcasting, and personal growth.

Blaklee Ramsey, the mastermind behind the "Elevated Edict Podcast," joins host Craig Harguess for a no-holds-barred conversation that'll make you rethink your scrolling habits. But first, let's rewind:

Remember those college days when your biggest worry was how many wings you could sling during game day? Craig and Blaklee do. They kick things off with a nostalgic trip down memory lane, reminiscing about their time at Foghorns Wings near the University of Arkansas. It's all laughs and "remember whens" until...

BAM! We're thrust into the present, where TikTok reigns supreme and dopamine hits come faster than you can say "swipe up." Blaklee drops some truth bombs about social media addiction that'll have you side-eyeing your phone. But don't worry, it's not all doom and gloom.

Did you know social media can actually be... good for you? (Gasp!) Our dynamic duo explores the brighter side of the digital world, from networking opportunities to spreading positivity. It's like finding a unicorn in a sea of cat videos.

But wait, there's more! Blaklee pulls back the curtain on her journey on being called to podcasting and here quick success. Spoiler alert: it's not all glamour and perfectly edited sound bites. She gets real about the self-doubt, the late-night editing sessions, and the unexpected connections that make it all worthwhile.

And for all you aspiring podcasters out there? Craig and Blaklee serve up a heaping helping of real talk about the challenges and triumphs of growing a show. It's like a masterclass in audio entrepreneurship, minus the hefty price tag.

So, are you ready to laugh, learn, and maybe rethink your relationship with that little device in your pocket? Tune in to this episode of the Bad Roman Podcast. Who knows? You might just find the inspiration to start your own digital revolution.

Connect with Blaklee Ramsey:

Episode Timestamps:

(0:55) Reconnecting and Reminiscing

  • Craig introduces Blaklee Ramsey, fellow podcaster and longtime friend

  • Craig and Blaklee reflect on their past work experiences at Foghorns Wings in Fayetteville, Arkansas

    • Realities of working in Fayetteville during game days

(4:06) Blaklee's Background

  • Born and raised in Arkansas

  • Started working in restaurants at age 12

  • Transition to sales and real estate, highlighting her strong work ethic

    • Burnout in Real Estate

  • Blaklee's journey to overcome burnout and set boundaries

    • The Birth of the Elevated Edit Podcast

    • Focus on self-improvement, work-life balance, and feminine energy

(11:32) The Dark Side of Social Media

  • Social Media Overconsumption

    • Discussion on the addictive nature of social media platforms

  • Craig's recent experience with social media during a difficult time

  • Blaklee's experience with social media addiction during the 2020 lockdown

  • Realization of time wasted on social media

(20:43) Positive Aspects of Social Media

  • Social media as a powerful connector

  • Blaklee's use of social media to grow her brand and podcast

  • Blaklee's strategies for setting boundaries and curating a positive online environment

(28:22) The Science Behind Social Media Addiction

  • Companies' strategies to keep users engaged

  • Importance of setting boundaries and being mindful of social media use

(34:39) The Elevated Edit Podcast

  • Blaklee's journey to starting her podcast

  • Focus on vulnerability, authenticity, and positive messaging

(40:27) Advice for Aspiring Podcasters

  • Importance of pushing through initial challenges

  • The value of authentic, unscripted content

(58:52) Final Thoughts

  • Importance of diverse perspectives in podcasting


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124. Humor, Healing, & Finding Purpose with Jeff Macolino

About this Episode

Have you ever felt like you're the worst person in the world? That everyone else has it together while you're just fumbling through life? If so, you're not alone. In this eye-opening episode of the Bad Roman Podcast, host Craig Hargis sat down with comedian and fellow podcaster Jeff Macalino to explore the surprising power of self-deprecating humor and its potential to transform lives.

The Unexpected Therapy Session

What started as a casual conversation about politics and faith quickly evolved into an impromptu therapy session that left both Craig and Jeff laughing and reflecting on the nature of self-worth. Jeff's raw honesty about his struggles with self-hatred struck a chord, revealing a universal human experience that many grapple with silently.

> "I hate myself more than anybody else in the world. Meaning I think I'm a horrible person. I'm terrible. I'm an abomination. I hate everything about me." - Jeff Macalino

At first glance, this level of self-loathing might seem alarming. But as the conversation unfolded, it became clear that Jeff's ability to confront and express these feelings openly was actually a source of strength and connection.

The Healing Power of Laughter

One of the most striking insights from their chat was Jeff's unique approach to dealing with embarrassment and personal shortcomings. Instead of hiding his mistakes or awkward moments, he chooses to share them openly, often turning them into hilarious anecdotes that bring joy to others.

Consider this: When was the last time you turned a mortifying experience into a source of laughter for yourself and others?

Jeff's philosophy is simple yet profound:

  1. Experience something embarrassing or negative

  2. Share it openly, often with humorous exaggeration

  3. Make others laugh, turning negative energy into positive

This approach doesn't just provide momentary relief; it has the potential to reshape one's relationship with their own imperfections. By laughing at themselves, individuals can:

  • Reduce the power of shame and self-criticism

  • Create connections through shared human experiences

  • Find value in mistakes and awkward moments

Reframing Self-Hatred: A Christian Perspective

As a Christian, Craig found himself reflecting on how Jeff's struggles align with the teachings of Jesus. It's easy to forget that Christ doesn't reject anyone, no matter how harshly they judge themselves. This realization led to a powerful moment in their conversation:

> "If Jesus doesn't reject you and you have these Christian tendencies, you have these Christian leanings... he doesn't reject you. You shouldn't reject yourself either."

This perspective offers a profound counterpoint to self-hatred. It challenges individuals to view themselves through a lens of grace and acceptance, mirroring the unconditional love that is central to Christian faith.

Practical Steps for Self-Acceptance

While the conversation was filled with laughter, it also yielded some practical advice for those struggling with self-worth:

  1. Start with the basics: Craig recommended Jeff (and now you) to read the Sermon on the Mount daily. This foundational teaching of Jesus can provide a new perspective on self-worth and relationships with others.

  2. Embrace vulnerability: Share embarrassing moments or mistakes. You might be surprised at how many people relate and find comfort in openness.

  3. Look for the humor: Try to find the funny side of awkward experiences. This doesn't trivialize them but can help reduce their emotional impact.

  4. Remember your impact: Jeff's comedy brings joy to countless people. Similarly, reflect on the positive impact you have on others, even in small ways.

  5. Practice self-compassion: Treat yourself with the same kindness and understanding you'd offer a good friend.

What We Learned About Self-Worth and Joy

This episode reminded Craig of the transformative power of honest conversation and shared laughter. Jeff's openness about his struggles with self-hatred, coupled with his ability to find humor in life's awkward moments, offers a unique pathway to self-acceptance and joy.

As they wrapped up their chat, Craig found himself deeply grateful for the unexpected direction the conversation had taken. It served as a powerful reminder that sometimes, the most profound insights come from the most unplanned moments.

Whether you're grappling with self-doubt, seeking ways to find more joy in your life, or simply in need of a good laugh, listening to the full episode might just change the way you view yourself and the world around you.

Remember, in a world that often feels divided, shared experiences of awkwardness, self-doubt, and the ability to laugh at oneself can be a powerful unifying force. So the next time you find yourself cringing at a personal faux pas, consider sharing it with a friend. You might just turn that moment of embarrassment into a catalyst for connection and joy.

Connect with Jeff Macolino:

Episode Timestamps:

Timestamps:

0:22 Guest Introduction: Jeff Macalino

0:44 Opening Banter and Sports Talk

  • Craig’s evolving relationship with the Dallas Cowboys

  • Jeff recounts his experience as a New Orleans Saints fan

  • younger fans focus more on individual athletes than teams

  • parallels between sports fandom and political allegiances

7:51 Jeff's Background and Podcast

  • Jeff Macalino Podcast

  • Jeff's Acting Career

    • "Haunted Happy Hour" on Prime

    • "The Last Ride" where Jeff serves as executive producer and lead actor

11:44 Exploration of Past Life Regression

  • Jeff shares his experience with past life regression facilitated by a friend

  • Describes the process as therapeutic regardless of belief in reincarnation

18:30 Spirituality and Christianity

  • Jeff reflects on his Catholic upbringing and current spiritual journey

  • Discusses openness to various spiritual experiences and the complexities of political involvement

21:03 Political Engagement and Voting

  • Jeff shares his conflicted feelings about voting particularly regarding marijuana legalization in Florida

  • moral dilemmas and compromises involved in political participation

25:57 Christian Anarchist Perspective

  • Craig explains his view on disengagement from politics emphasizing following Jesus over political involvement

  • challenges of maintaining this perspective in a politically charged environment

29:24 Self-Perception and Humor

  • Jeff talks about his tendency towards self-deprecation and using humor to cope with negative experiences

  • Craig encourages Jeff to recognize his positive impact through humor and entertainment

47:45 Closing Thoughts 


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62. Love and Substance Abuse - Hope for the Addict with Reckless Saints of Nowhere's Jordan Blake

About this episode

Jordan Blake is the Executive Director and co-founder of The Reckless Saints of Nowhere. He finished his own rehab journey in 2015 and started Reckless Saints with his wife shortly after. They lead a team that destroys barriers for those ready to go through treatment for substance addiction. They go against the status quo to show the love of Jesus to those most of the world finds repugnant. And it works.


No matter who you are, you know someone struggling with addiction — even if you don’t know it. This touches everyone. If it’s not you, it’s your sibling, cousin, teacher, friend, coworker… it's a deadly problem. It needs to be talked about. Shame only keeps people from getting the help they need. Those dealing with it need and deserve our love. If you or someone you know is ready to accept help, go to recklesssaintsofnowhere.com or call (918) 864-2719 to start the process.

Episode Timestamps:

1:35 TJ, Craig’s baby brother

  • 36 when he passed

  • Had a problem with alcohol

  • Died September 2020, after 6 months of lockdown

2:29 Get people to pay attention

  • Most people don’t notice problems are happening until it’s affecting them personally

3:20 Jordan’s story

  • Not addicted in an expected way for his community

    • Which was meth

  • He had a serious accident and major pain at 12-13 years old

    • Perhaps the first Oklahoman to be prescribed Oxycontin

      • Purdue pharma bribed the FDA to say it was non-addictive

        • Looked like the savior for people’s pain

    • His kidney was producing 100+ stones/year

      • One x-ray showed over 40

      • They didn’t want to remove it and stress the other kidney

    • Left the hospital with higher and higher doses of oxy

    • 19 surgeries before 20 years old

      • Including metal insertions

      • All removable organs removed

    • The hospital didn’t want to give a kid morphine

    • Outside the hospital, he wound up on morphine, fentanyl…

      • On the needle

      • Hit a US Marshall in the face with a beer bottle during a bar fight

      • Getting arrested every weekend

      • … all because he was trying to treat his immense pain

    • Forced into treatment at 20

  • At the beginning of Reckless

    • Came out of rehab with no desire to help anyone

      • Wanted to just be left alone and work in a factory

      • Couldn’t even go on vacation because of the number of drugs he had to take to manage his pain

    • His veins were collapsing from too much drug use

    • But everyone in town knew he was a dirtbag and noticed when he went sober

      • People started asking him for help getting sober

        • Told him they were scared of dying but didn’t know what to do to prevent it

        • Crying in the grocery store

          • (a public space with lots of people around! A nightmare for an autistic person)

          • He panicked about that one and tried to talk the guy out of asking him for help

          • He told the dude he didn’t want to do it the popular way because there was only a 4% success rate

          • He said he’d do whatever Jordan told him to

          • The guy detoxed at Jordan’s house and they headed to Teen Challenge in the morning

        • But they wouldn’t let him in without $800-1000 entry fee

        • “I couldn’t get them to understand: If he had $8, it would be up his arm. He doesn’t have $800.” - Jordan

        • When someone who’s addicted says they want treatment, you gotta jump on that moment

        • Not make them come up with almost $1,000 first

        • So Jordan paid for 5 or 6 guys to get in before he ran out of money

        • He gave out his phone number and got like 200 calls for help within a month

        • Going into drug dens trying to talk people into recovery

          • Led to a broken nose

          • Knives pulled on him

          • But also guys choosing treatment

        • So, Reckless started as a treatment financing program

          • But he started dating Vanessa, and she helped him make a nonprofit so volunteers could do some of the work

            • Instead of him working 50 hr/wk and running around the country in between shifts

            • 3 months later, they were married

    • Goal of Reckless: overcome obstacles to treatment

      • Entry fee

      • Transportation

        • Might single-handedly be keeping Greyhound in business

      • Finding a bed

        • Waitlists

        • Vanessa made a network so different organizations can put their availability

      • Support

    • Place about 5-6 people per day in treatment

      • Over 7,000 total

      • Never had to turn anyone away 

13:18 Funds

  • Several churches giving $100/month

    • But entry fees are $1,000 per person

    • Drugs are a huge problem in the US

      • Could easily blow through a billion and make a small dent

  • Apparel company in the basement

    • Brings in $300-500,000/year

      • All goes to getting people into treatment

  • Parents take out 2nd or 3rd mortgages to get their kids into $30,000 programs

15:17 Reckless rehab

  • Gathered strategies from different programs that work

  • 90% success rate

  • Now looked to as industry leader

    • But made a lot of mistakes

    • Fought a lot of battles

    • The first person trying something always faces the most adversity

16:41 Who can help an addict?

  • Did TJ not listen to his family because they had never been addicted?

  • Addicts know they have a problem

    • But they have to reach a moment of clarity

  • You don’t have to experience someone’s pain to acknowledge and help with it

    • But someone who has been addicted can call bullshit and wake a person up

    • The loved ones’ pain is just as real, and can only be felt by them

      • The addict and their family may never understand each other

        • But they can still love each other

20:47 Grim Reaper

  • The police department gave Jordan this nickname

    • They arrest someone for drugs

      • Don’t book em right away

        • They either agree to go with Jordan

          • And likely get better

        • Or the cops find them dead within the week

  • People don’t call Reckless till they’ve run out of options / hit bottom

    • Only maybe 10-20% of people they try to help accept it

    • That means 8 or 9 / 10 people die or get worse

      • Reckless staff stopped going to all those funerals 

        • It had become all they did

    • He can honestly tell people, “This is the last conversation I’ll get with you. You’re either gonna die or you’re gonna come with me.”

      • The only way he can sleep at night is to tell it to them straight

        • Some have assaulted him for it, but it’s their only chance, so he keeps doing it

          • The truth hurts

24:14 Families of the addicted

  • “In the case of your brother, there’s nothing you did wrong. There’s nothing you should have done.” - Jordan

  • People don’t want to think their loved one needs help

    • Even after telling a dad that heroin addicts fail 97% of the time to recover on their own

      • The dad said, “Maybe my son will be in the 3%”

      • And got the son a hotel room to stay in

        • Where he died of an overdose

          • “Failure means death.” - Jordan

          • The father was distraught and blaming himself

          • Jordan told him, “Your son died because of your son. And that had nothing to do with you. That was a conscious decision made by him that resulted in his death.”

26:34 Emotions of the addicted

  • Huge highs and very low lows

    • On the verge of swinging from the smallest trigger

  • Guilt and shame

    • Even when families give love unconditionally, addicts hide

      • TJ chose not to share what he was doing with Craig

        • Even though the love would not have changed

28:09 Vulnerability in sharing personal stories

  • “I promise anybody that's listening to this, you know somebody in your life, whether it's a friend or family member, that is struggling with this.” - Craig

  • Feel exposed

  • Extra nerve-wracking to have been an IV drug user

    • People think you’re gross

      • Categorize you with sex offenders

    • Despised and rejected

    • Jordan thought no one would want to hear from him

      • But the more honest he was, the more people came asking for help

  • “There's not a lot of ‘real’ being offered out there right now. And people recognize it. They jump all over it.” - Jordan

  • Random advice tidbit: “If you're gonna be successful, surround yourself with people that are never impressed by you. That’s my secret.” - Jordan

    • Abby tells Craig when he’s being stupid

    • Jordan’s wife is not blown away when he designs a new shirt or makes money

    • Just don’t beat men down or they’ll fail then too

32:38 Bringing it back to Christ

  • The same way Jordan calls addicts out on their crap, the Bad Roman calls out Christians

    • Been there

    • Understand where they’re coming from

  • Jesus healed

    • Offered people a way out

    • Eradicated shame and guilt

    • Offers hope

    • Reckless Saints of Nowhere is doing God’s work!

  • Nobody talks about this issue

    • That’s why it’s so important

    • There’s so many voices 

      • So much misinformation

      • So many people trying to make money by offering “recovery”

    • There’s no accountability

    • They can legally 

      • Bring in people who’ve been arrested

      • Get them a job

        • Give them a raise

      • Take the paycheck for a year

      • Let them keep the job at the lower wage

    • Often label themselves as Christian

    • Reckless doesn’t attack them

      • Simply keeps living better

        • Saving money for their clients instead of stealing

      • The cheaters hate them

      • Same as Bad Roman

        • “What you guys do, trying to draw a line between patriotism and evangelicalism in America, is a suicide mission.” - Jordan

        • People have always come to God asking him to support their agenda

        • He flies no man’s flag

        • In 2016, Jordan said it was scary that neither candidate even pretended to fear God

        • Everyone freaked

    • Said he hated Trump

    • And loved Hilary

    • He’s a registered republican

    • “In the American Christianity Bible belt, you don’t fight good vs evil.” - Jordan

    • He told his coworker he understood why women were hesitant to vote for Trump

      • Lover of Hilary!!

    • And all of ^ that ^ is exactly what spurred the start of The Bad Roman Project

      • Christians backing Trump no matter what he said or did

      • “If either one of them feared God, they wouldn't be running to rule over somebody else.” - Craig

40:50 Operating closely with the state without joining them

  • It’s necessary if you want to exist and be able to help people 

  • Health and Human Services 501c3

  • Non-religious organization

    • Being religious cuts off access to people in jail

      • Separation of church and state

        • Can’t court order someone to go to a church-based program

  • Run on Gospel principles

  • Every client has gone through faith-based program

    • Statistically more successful

      • Can’t argue with that

  • Preach everywhere

  • Take no money from the state

    • Salvation Army and Red Cross got in trouble doing this

    • The state’s money is so easy to get, most churches do it

      • Grants

      • They wonder why the Gospel is compromised

        • It has to be or they’ll cut off your funding

    • Insidious funds infiltrate and change your organization

  • Work with system to get people out of the system

  • The IRS pushed back

    • But Reckless is 90% successful

      • Why would they close them?

    • Got to keep their health organization status

      • Keep working in the jails and mental hospitals

        • It’s the sick who need a doctor

    • Ruled that they could keep it, but were cut off from state funding

      • How could they do that to us?

        • Oh, wait. We don’t have any state funding

        • And never will

      • Reckless won, but the government wrote the letter like they lost

44:55 “Christian” logos

  • “If you want to honor God with your work, don't put a cross on every pair of shoes you make. Just make a really good pair of shoes.” - Martin Luther, paraphrased

  • Jesus Fish

    • A guy asked for a logo design with the fish

      • Jordan asked him why

        • So everyone who sees their sign knows they’re Christian

        • How about treat them with dignity and see if they figure it out?

  • “It's an appearance of Christianity, but it's not Christianity.” - Jordan

  • “You drive around in Oklahoma, [and] there's a hundred churches in every square block. And yet the city's burning to the ground around it in addiction. These two things can't coexist. If Christ is present, there is freedom.” - Jordan

  • Marketing a business as Christian is exclusionary

    • It doesn’t attract non-Christian customers

    • It tells people to stay away if they don’t share your beliefs

  • “It's gotta be about Christ and it's gotta be about helping people or what benefit are we getting from it?” - Jordan

48:11 Rebellious?

  • “Live a life that gets people asking you questions of why you're living that way.” - Craig

  • It used to be that being a Christian meant anarchy was implied

  • Acting outside the norm

    • Dragging addicts out of drug dens rather than waiting for them to come

    • Have tattoos

  • Not rebels

    • True Christians live a life of submission

  • Modern day rebellion

    • “Be a rebel again. Turn off your TV, get married, stay married, start a family. Be present for that family. Think for yourself, teach your kids to think for themselves, buy land, and love your neighbors. Even the ones you disagree with.” - Tim Kennedy

    • It’s now considered rebellion to live basic Christian values

    • The Baptists don’t approve

      • “The gospels [are] not the thing that unites them. They’re not even talked about.” - Jordan

      • If you fall in love with Christ rather than their system of rules and strict beliefs, you will be ostracized

  • Attending church

    • Craig doesn’t because he was judging everyone

      • He knew they wouldn’t like the Bad Roman

      • He didn’t want to be that person

      • So, the Bad Roman Discussion Group has Zoom church

    • It’s about community

    • Jordan attends all kinds

      • Mennonite, different Baptist flavors..

      • Also prone to judging

      • Chooses to walk in with Jesus, ready to love His people

      • Extra judgy when churches present their budget

        • Reckless minimizes overhead to reach more people

          • Churches seem to do the opposite

          • “Let’s hire more people”

          • Like 90 pastors on staff, each with a different specialty

        • Craig was at a broken church

          • The denomination brought in someone to heal it

          • He said they had to raise more money

          • A pastor would never stay on that salary

          • Craig never returned or gave money to a church again

59:22 Reformers by nature

  • God has given the Bad Roman and Reckless a job

  • Not afraid to walk against the status quo

  • Martin Luther’s qualms

    • Clergy

    • Budget not going to care for the needy

  • America

    • We’ve lost the hurt and needy

      • Church used to take care of them

      • God ordained us to care for orphans and widows

        • James 1:27

        • It wasn’t a suggestion!

        • We gave that job to the state because we didn’t want to do it

    • BUT it is not our job to fix the messed up church

      • That is God’s bride

        • He’s the only one big enough to fix it

      • We can call her out

        • Jordan called out Teen Challenge for partnering with the state

          • They got mad because he’s one of their success stories

          • And therefore cannot speak against them because he is doing well

          • But who else can speak to what they do, if not a graduate?

      • Cannot reform the church from the outside

        • We want to get back to the teachings of Christ

          • That is reformation.

        • Churches are panicking because people are leaving

        • But we’re just rethinking what church really is

          • What does following Jesus look like?

          • Must leave the culture of control and divisiveness to find Him

          • “People are no longer satisfied with an agenda with biased information.” - Jordan

1:03:15 Authenticity

  • That’s what’s missing from American society

  • We weren’t always afraid of failure

    • The church won’t move because they’re scared of the blowback if they fail

    • People wanting to start ministries have to be counseled

      • When you fail, are you prepared for everyone to see you look stupid?

  • The church is now an institution

    • Which is never good

    • Fears information

    • Fears failure

    • All about power and control

1:04:15 Motivation

  • Love

    • “I’m telling you the truth because I love you.” - Craig

  • It’s not because we love to fight people about this stuff

    • We’re still open to listen

  • Love has to be evident in your life

    • So when you speak the truth, it is backed by love

    • It’s not just about your delivery of the words

    • It’s that your lifestyle proves you care

    • When we know someone loves us, they can speak truths

1:06:13 The Reckless Saints of Nowhere name

  • Jordan is from Boatman, OK

  • The government decided they weren’t big enough

    • Took their township

    • No more post office

    • No more zip code

  • Now, the kids go to school in one town and the police come from another 

  • People started calling it ‘nowhere’

    • Also dog town

      • People abandoned their dogs there

  • Rough, sketchy trailer park area

  • Moved back there after rehab

    • Brand new Christian

    • Made all sorts of mistakes

    • But God had his heart fully

    • Spurgeon has a quote 

      • The moment you submit to Christ, you are as much a saint as Peter

    • Churches didn’t like it

      • Didn’t want a tattooed dude who cussed a lot and hung out with drug addicts to claim the same God/religion as their pompous selves

      • He wasn’t even trying to appear perfect

  • A bit reckless

    • They do stuff proper people never would

    • They have not yet been made perfect

  • Just as much saints as the well-behaved

  • And grew up in a non-town known as nowhere

  • Actually, an old lady called them that as an insult, and it stuck

  • Being ostracized by the churches there forced them to lean hard into Jesus

    • Wouldn’t trade the faith they developed from that

1:09:52 Moved from Nowhere

  • Jordan was planning to stay there till he died

    • A deep love for that community

  • Snake Invasion

    • One in the back fridge

    • One dropped from a tree by his son

  • Accident

    • Pothole

      • Blew bearings out on a motorcycle

        • Popped tire

      • Scraped up his face

        • Road rash

  • “I love this town, but it does not love me back”

  • Still visit and work their all the time

1:10:55 T-shirts

  • All designed by Jordan

    • Except one

  • Timmy (the shirt Craig wore for the show) is no longer available

  • Jordan was always promising people he’d pay their fees

    • Saying the check is in the mail

    • One time, he promised $10,000 worth

      • And there was not a penny in the bank

      • But God provided

        • Nothing was late

    • Shirts were a way to have funds more regularly

  • They’ve grown to have a professional shop in town

    • Run by a friend

      • Addicts help with printing process

  • “Every single person that buys. A reckless shirt or donates online – they're as much a part of Reckless as my own beating heart.” - Jordan

    • The money paid for a shirt is directly connected to saving a life

1:14:08

  • Reckless works in nearly every state

  • “If you're a drug addict in the United States of America, it's either because you want to be, or you've never heard of the reckless saints.” - Jordan

  • Chose t-shirts because people actually pay to advertise for you by wearing it

  • The team does every part of the process

    • So, if you’re shirt comes a bit late, they’re probably working with a lot of people or traveling a lot

      • It’s a rescue team that happens to also print shirts

  • Craig likes to wear his shirt to the gym

  • CrossFit donated to Reckless

    • So some of the guys could participate

1:20:14ish Get help

  • Get Help Button

  • Hotline: 918-864-2719

    • No answer? 

      • Leave a detailed voicemail

  • Website

  • “We may not be undefeated, but we have never lost a rematch.” - Jordan


Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

18. TJ's Story

In this special episode of the Bad Roman Podcast, John Dangelo, Scott Goldman, and Nicholas Harrelson join Craig to help us understand more about addiction. This episode is dedicated to TJ, Craig’s brother who recently passed away and we hope by sharing his story will help at least one person find some light in a dark place. Addiction and mental illness touch everyone’s family in some shape or form. If you or someone you love is struggling we encourage you to seek help. Below is a list of resources, which of course are only starting points.

  1. Suicide Hotline: 800-273-8255

  2. Substance Abuse Hotline: 1-800-662-HELP (4357)

  3. Hub site of resources

  4. Find an AA meeting 

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Timestamps & resources for further exploration:

2:01 John’s Experience with addiction

  • poly-substance addiction

  • importance of the disease model


3:15 Nicholas’s Experience with addiction

  • Opiates & heroin stats

 5:05 Scott’s experience with addiction

6:30 CRAIG Background on TJ and why this episode exist

  • alcoholism

  • addiction

  • depression

  • coronavirus and mental health

  • suicide rate since corona

  • alcohol sales since corona

13:20 Dangers of quitting alcohol “cold turkey”

15:03 God loves the addict

  • millennial suicide rate during quarantine (1 in 4) 

20:23  What is a “moment of clarity” for an addict?

21:34 Nicholas describes his moment of clarity

25:11 Scott’s moment of clarity 

28:28 How do we reach someone who does not want to be reached, l can you induce clarity?

38:10 How can we better understand addiction and support those affected by it? Is the system set up for failure?

  • C Car in Connecticut

  • No clear guidelines for addicts to recover

  • Chasing the Scream book

53:37 Do addicts not care?

55:43 Addiction changes the brain

57:44 How Portugal successfully decriminalized drugs, reallocated resources to recovery efforts, and changed its addiction rate

58:44 The importance of rediscovering the spiritual realm as an addict