67. What do gambling and voting have in common? with Paul Varkey

About this Episode

Craig is joined by Paul Parayil for his first-ever podcast appearance. Through his prolific and provocative writings, Paul advocates for liberty, truth, honesty, and the Kingdom of God. His blog and Facebook posts have garnered quite a following. In this episode, they discuss Paul's article, "Do you believe Gambling is a vice? I don't think you do". In the article, Paul grabs the attention of the evangelical right audience and shows how Christians engage in high-stakes gambling on something worse than cards. Fear produces voting, but just like casino gambling, the house (or the state) always wins.

When the church condones the state's violence, it fails to align with people's consciences, becoming a stumbling block. However, the church will find itself more attractive when Christians promote Jesus's basic teachings of self-governance and doing no harm. We use the term Christian Anarchist because a core component of Christianity has been lost. Instead, that which should be an obvious and natural occurrence in the church must be emphasized. Anarchy is implied, and the entire gospel message is summed up in one sentence: No King but Christ. 

Since the beginning of the church, we have had one King. Jesus never sought political office! It is morally inconsistent of us to believe we have the right to coerce our neighbors with political power gained through participation in state activities, be they politics or voting. We are more consistent with Jesus's actions when we serve from the fringes of society with love and charity. The beginning of the healing of this world is through peacefully walking away from the gamble that is voting.

Paul's social media: 

• FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/paul.varkey , 

• Hive blog

Episode Timestamps:

1:15 Introduce Paul

• Enjoys writing 

  • Initially, to clarify his own thoughts

  • Found others enjoy thinking outside the box and reading his writings

• Often interacting in various Christian Anarchist circles

• Family originally from India 

  • A family of practicing Christians 

  • When Paul was three, his parents immigrated to the Middle East (Saudi Arabia) and lived there until he graduated from high school

  • Christmas holidays were spent visiting family in India

• Education

  • Graduated high school in Saudi Arabia

  • Went back to India for college

  • Moved to the US as a graduate student in 2004

  • Moved to California to work as a software engineer in 2011

  • Been working in Tech since then

5:45 How did Paul come to Christian anarchy?

• Brought up as Christians in Saudi Arabia.

• Moved to Chicago at 21 years old

  • Began thinking about politics

  • Knew he was pro-life because it's a matter that evangelicals care about

  • Became a republican quickly

• Knew that his support for GOP was tribalism  

• Heard of Ron Paul and what he had to say about:

  • The Fed

  • The Military-Industrial Complex, https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/military-industrial-complex 

  • Regulatory capture of the big corporations

• Provoked into considering the logical inconsistency of his own beliefs 

  • Began looking into political libertarianism

  • Kicked and screamed for a few years into anarchy 

• Was not aware of Christian anarchism 

  • A closet Christian Anarchist 

  • No one to fellowship with

  • Craig also had a similar experience until he came across the Anarcho Christian Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/645893438920507 

10:15 What is Christian Anarchism?

• The early church were anarchists 

  • Including Jesus 

• No title; the word didn't exist

  • But they practiced it

  • It was an obvious part of being a Christian

    • Do you tell people that you are a "virgin birthist"? 

    • There's no need to specify because most Christians believe in it

    • So it was with Christian anarchy in the early church 

  • A core message has been lost of how the kingdom of God works with nations here

• We've lost an essential message of the gospel, so we must use the label to emphasize it

• It's okay to disagree with others

  • Secular anarchists

  • Or even Paul of Tarsus

• It's more important to follow Jesus than anarchy

15:35 No King But Christ 

• Essentially communicates the whole gospel message 

  • While implying anarchy

• How are secular anarchists preaching better moral truths than the church? 

• Anarcho Christian Facebook group:

  • Don't all agree on Christian doctrines

  • They at least agree on the anarchist outlook

• More people seem to be latching onto anarchy

  • Self-rule

  • Do no harm

  • Don't take my things

  • Follow the basic teachings of Christ

• Voluntaryism doesn't trigger Christian minds to think of chaos.

• In the right-leaning "Christian" culture, there is an identification of patriotism and nationalism as the proper practicing of faith

20:30 Paul pokes the bear to make people think.

• The biggest tragedies of the church: 

  • We lost the concept of No King But Christ 

  • Colluding with the state

  • In both the Eastern Christian and Western church circles

  • We have compromised our values

22:46 Read Paul’s Article: "Do you believe Gambling is a vice? I don't think you do."

• Grabbing the attention of the evangelical right

  • It's addressed to people who think gambling is a vice or sin

• There is a loser in gambling

  • There is also a winner; it's always the house

• In the casino, most of the participants frequently lose

  • Some participants win big, keeping people hooked

  • The only one who wins is the house.

• Gambling is a vice because you produce no real wealth, 

  • One of us is poorer based on luck

  • There is nothing godly about this

• There is something far worse than gambling 

  • Christians engage in it regularly 

  • This form of gambling has a house, and the house always wins.

• When you vote, you wager your own life and liberties and securities.

  • Cannot recover lost freedoms back from the state through voting

  • You legitimize the beast through voting

29:05 What is voting?

• The state says, "Come along. All of you will lose some liberties, but some of you will have the chance to have less of your liberties taken."

• Fear takes over when people vote

• There are more than two people to choose from

31: 48 What is the state?

• Takes people's liberties

• Has never once shrunk

  • States grow or collapse.

• Taking the chance and succumbing to fear keeps the house growing

  • Yet people vote for candidates they don't like

• The idea of your "civic duties" being to vote is ridiculous

• "Go vote" is a religious mantra

• It doesn't matter to the elites who wins

  • The aura of the legitimacy of the beast improves when people show up to vote

  • Republicans are Democrats 2.0

  • Don't put others in power over your neighbours

36:00 God alone gives liberty 

• Jesus sets us free, not the US

  • There may be some good outcomes from voting

    • God makes good come from evil

• Paul's moral analysis of voting is the reason he doesn't

  • I don't have the right to dominate my neighbour

    • No coercing them to behave the way I want

    • Unlikely to bring more liberty

    • It's still a gamble

• Anarchists joining libertarian parties promote the state

39.00 Why don't Christians just walk away?

• One solution to the problems of government

  • Peacefully walk away

  • Christians should know this and opt out

• The empire is falling and we already have a King

  • Power will corrupt

  • You will lose while growing the state

• If someone is addicted to any addictive substance, they cannot go cold turkey

  • Voting gives a dopamine hit

  • If you feel the need to vote, at least vote for a third party

  • Take other political actions 

• The Libertarian parties will never take over the state

  • Their message is good

• Paul does more good outside of political processes 

  • Being morally consistent with his beliefs

• If anyone was going to change the US system, it would have been Ron Paul

  • You cannot change the mafia from the inside 

  • The point of the mafia is to be the mafia

  • Ron Paul changed awakened people https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/ron-paul-5118.php 

• Voting is a risk; why not simply obey Jesus Christ?

• When Satan tempted Jesus with authority, He didn't rebuke Satan, telling him that the authority was not his to give. Instead, He said, "No, I'm good." https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%204%3A1-11&version=NIV 

• Likewise, Christians should say, "No, I'm good." 

  • rather than seek power

  • Seek Jesus as our King

• The early church writings show:

  • They had no interest in the Roman Empire 

  • Tertullian called the affairs of the state foreign https://quotepark.com/authors/tertullian/quotes-about-the-world/

  • The kingdom of God is a literal Kingdom

  • Their King did not use a sword against Caesar and Pilot 

  • They expanded the kingdom through love, charity, and service

  • From outside the system

• Christians can enrich anarchism with the teachings of Christ

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Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

146. Christianity without Compromise: Jesus Centered Life, Not Left or Right with Jake Doberenz

When Christians step into the political arena, do we realize how much compromise it takes to stay there?

It’s easy to think that casting a vote, joining a campaign, or posting about “God and country” is just doing our civic duty. But what happens when the cross gets buried under a flag and we call that faithfulness?

In this episode of The Bad Roman Podcast, Craig Hargis sits down with Jake Doberenz, host of Christianity Without Compromise and writer of the Smashing Idols Substack, to unpack what happens when believers give their loyalty to Caesar and call it discipleship. From a rigged high-school election to the moral chaos of modern war, this conversation asks a dangerous question:

👉 Can you follow Jesus without compromise and still play the political game?

The Illusion of Influence: Why Our Votes Don’t Redeem the System

Jake shares a funny but revealing story from high school: helping count ballots in a student election that didn’t add up. The “safe” candidate won, even though the “popular” one clearly had more votes.

It’s small potatoes compared to Washington, D.C., but the lesson hit deep – politics is messy because power always corrupts. Even good intentions get swallowed up by systems built on ambition, control, and fear.

The same thing happens every election season in America. Christians line up behind the lesser of two evils and call it righteousness, forgetting that evil (lesser or not) is still evil. As Craig puts it:

“We’re outsourcing our sin to politicians and calling it stewardship.”

We tell ourselves that our guy will make a difference, that our vote “matters.” But as history and Scripture both show, when human power is the goal, the Kingdom always gets compromised.

Israel’s King Problem: A Warning from 1 Samuel 8

When Israel demanded a king, God warned them exactly what would happen:

“He will take your sons for his army, your daughters for his servants, your fields for his gain. You will cry out because of your king, but the Lord will not answer you.” (1 Samuel 8)

They wanted to be “like the nations.” They wanted the comfort of a visible ruler, something tangible they could trust. But a king, any king, always costs something. And as Jake points out, the story of David proves it.

David began as a humble man after God’s heart, refusing to kill Saul, honoring God above self. But the moment he put on the crown, the corruption began. Politics twisted even the best of men.

Sound familiar? We see it every election cycle. The promises start holy, the slogans sound moral, but once power hits the bloodstream, compromise follows.

The lesson is timeless: You can’t have a king and still claim “No King but Christ.”

Psalm 146: A Better Political Manifesto

If the modern church needs a political platform, Psalm 146 should be it:

“Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save… Blessed are those whose help is the God of Jacob.”

Politicians die. Policies change. Empires fall. But the Kingdom of God is consistent: feeding the hungry, freeing prisoners, lifting up the oppressed, and frustrating the wicked.

The psalmist describes God’s Kingdom as everything the state isn’t: compassionate instead of coercive, restorative instead of retaliatory, faithful instead of fickle.

When Christians defend injustice in the name of national interest, when we justify violence because it’s “our side” doing it, we aren’t advancing the Kingdom…we’re betraying it.

Romans 12 Before Romans 13

Jake makes a crucial point: never read Romans 13 before Romans 12.

Romans 12 tells us to bless our enemies, to overcome evil with good, and to refuse revenge. Then comes Romans 13, the chapter everyone loves to quote to justify obedience to government.

But if your reading of Romans 13 gives Caesar permission to do what Jesus forbids you to do, you’ve missed the point. The passage isn’t a loophole for Christians to fund or bless violence, it’s a reminder that God can use even corrupt governments for His purposes. It’s descriptive, not prescriptive.

The call remains the same: love your enemies, feed your enemies, pray for those who persecute you.

That’s the real revolution.

Consistency: The Most Radical Witness

Craig and Jake both circle back to one word: consistency.

It’s what made Jesus so magnetic. He didn’t just preach love of enemy, He practiced it, even as they nailed Him to a cross.

Consistency is what gives the gospel credibility. When Christians say “love your neighbor” but vote for leaders who bomb them, the world notices. When we preach peace but cheer for war, seekers walk away.

Jake shared a story of a friend who left the faith after watching Christians justify the slaughter in Gaza. “If this is Christianity,” he said, “I want nothing to do with it.”

That’s the cost of inconsistency. Not just hypocrisy, but lost souls.

Repentance and Reorientation

Repentance isn’t a guilt trip. It’s a direction change. As the Bible Project puts it, repentance means to turn around.

If your politics have hardened your heart, turn around.
If you’ve placed hope in princes and policies, turn around.
If you’ve excused violence because your side did it, turn around.

Refocus on the Sermon on the Mount. Build your life, and your worldview, on that mountain, not Capitol Hill.

A Different Kind of Politics

Neither Craig nor Jake are anti-political, they’re anti-idolatry. They believe in a Kingdom politics rooted in the Beatitudes, not ballots.

As Jake said:

“Jesus has a politics. But it looks nothing like America, or Uganda, or anywhere else on earth.”

The Kingdom of God is a government without coercion, a rule where the King dies for His enemies instead of killing them. That’s the politics of the Lamb.

It’s time for the church to recover it.

No King but Christ

When we call Jesus “King,” it’s not a metaphor. It’s an allegiance statement. It means nobody else gets to be king, not presidents, not pastors, not parties.

Craig sums it up perfectly:

“My allegiance is to Jesus. Not a president, not a senator, not a mayor. Jesus Christ alone.”

If that sounds radical, good. The early church was called radical too. Polycarp, Origen, and Tertullian all refused to worship the emperor. They were accused of being bad Romans.

Maybe that’s what faithfulness still looks like today.

Listen & Reflect

🎧 Listen to the full episode: Christianity without Compromise: Jesus Centered Life, Not Left or Right with Jake Doberenz, available on all major podcast platforms.

💬 Question for reflection:
If Jesus is King, what does that mean for how you engage with politics, power, and national identity?

📖 Scriptures to Revisit:
1 Samuel 8 | Psalm 146 | Matthew 5–7 | Romans 12–13

🤝Connect with Jake Doberenz:

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Introducing guest Jake Doberins

• Host of Christianity Without Compromise and author of Smashing Idols SubStack

• Exploring Christian involvement in politics and its real-world impact

(1:00) From “Smashing Idols” to “Christianity Without Compromise”

• Jake explains the podcast’s name change for clarity and focus

• Connection between his Substack and podcast projects

(2:26) Standing firm on the words of Jesus

• Discussing the need for consistency in following Christ’s teachings

• Rejecting political debates and distractions

(4:07) Jake’s background and calling

• Biblical Studies and Theological Studies degrees

• From church ministry to media ministry and podcast production

(8:00) Early political experience

• Jake’s role as Republican Club president in high school

• First-hand exposure to campaigns and local politics

(15:22) Wrestling with faith and politics

• Questioning whether political life aligns with Christian convictions

• Recognizing the temptation to compromise for success

(19:52) The cost of Christian political involvement

• Exploring how “outsourcing sin to Caesar” harms others

• Challenging Christians to see the damage caused by state loyalty

(24:12) Consistency as Christian witness

• Why inconsistency weakens the gospel message

• The power of living out “No King but Christ”

(28:51) 1 Samuel 8 and Israel’s demand for a king

• God’s warning about taxation, conscription, and oppression

• Parallels between ancient Israel and modern Christian nationalism

(32:00) Reading Romans 13 through Romans 12

• Understanding submission to government through enemy-love

• The Sermon on the Mount as the Christian’s true political manifesto

(35:35) The corrupting nature of power

• How King David’s downfall reveals the danger of authority

• Politics as a distraction from devotion to Jesus

(40:17) Psalm 146 — trusting God, not princes

• Contrast between human rulers and God’s faithfulness

• Reminder that only God’s Kingdom endures

(45:39) The mission behind Christianity Without Compromise

• Refocusing believers on Jesus over modern idols

• Addressing politics, Christian nationalism, and misplaced loyalties

(50:28) Encouragement for Christian creators

• Craig calls for more podcasts, blogs, and projects centered on Jesus

Importance of sharing the message: No King but Christ

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Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

145. Charlie Kirk and the Lamb of God: Can You Carry the Flag and the Cross at the Same Time?

After Charlie Kirk’s tragic death, a deeper conversation has surfaced about the growing entanglement of Christianity and politics.

This episode of The Bad Roman Podcast steps into that tension and explores what happens when the Church trades the cross for a campaign.

Our guest, Brian Drinkwine, is a pastor and church planter who has walked that road himself. He went from a passionate political believer to a follower of Christ learning to question the marriage between faith and power. His viral post about Charlie Kirk’s memorial service sparked a national conversation and revealed how uneasy many Christians feel about the blending of faith and political ideology.

The Malaise of Modern Christianity

There is a growing discomfort in the Church, a spiritual restlessness that Brian calls malaise. Many believers sense that something is wrong, even if they cannot explain it.

This episode gives language to that unease and helps people who feel out of place in modern Christianity find words for what they feel.

“You’re not crazy,” Brian says to those who feel out of step. “You saw this and thought, something’s not right. You chose to give your allegiance to Jesus alone. That should be celebrated, not condemned.”

That is the heartbeat of The Bad Roman: No King but Christ.

It is not a slogan but a return to the simplicity and power of early Christianity.

The Danger of Political Allegiance

One of the clearest insights from this conversation is that political parties often act like religions.

Each one has its own sacred texts, rituals, and values. For some, the Constitution becomes scripture. Voting becomes a sacrament. Party leaders become prophets.

When Christians give their ultimate loyalty to these political “religions,” they risk betraying the Kingdom of God.

“We cannot serve both God and Mammon,” Brian reminds us. “And sometimes, political power becomes the new Mammon.”

This is not theory. It is a call to honest reflection.
Have we allowed our politics to shape our faith more than the teachings of Jesus?

Reframing Faith and Politics

Throughout the episode, Brian and Craig invite listeners to rethink what it means to follow Jesus in a politically divided world.

1. Patriotism vs. Nationalism: It is good to appreciate your country. But when love of nation becomes ultimate loyalty, it becomes idolatry.

2. The Narrow Path: Following Jesus is not about finding middle ground. It is about choosing a completely different way. The Kingdom of God is not found on the right or the left. It is found on the narrow road of Christ.

3. Repentance as Revolution: The word metanoia means a complete change of mind. It is not about guilt but about turning back to Jesus as King.

4. The Power of Forgiveness: The difference between Erica Kirk’s forgiveness and the calls for revenge at the memorial shows what Kingdom love really looks like.

Practical Steps for Realignment

If your faith feels tangled up in politics, Brian offers a few ways to begin untangling it.

• Take a “politics fast.” Step away from political media and spend time in the Gospels instead.

• Simplify your faith. Start again with the basics, like the Sermon on the Mount.

• Check your allegiances. Ask yourself, “If loving others like Jesus meant losing my party loyalty, could I do it?”

• Speak prophetically. True patriotism tells the truth, even when it is uncomfortable.

What This Teaches Us About Faith and Politics

This conversation is a mirror for all of us who have ever mixed our love for Jesus with our loyalty to empire. It reminds us that our mission is not political victory but faithfulness to Christ.

In a world divided by tribalism, allegiance to Jesus is the most countercultural thing we can offer.

“On the other side of my political allegiance,” Brian says, “when I gave that up and fully gave myself to Jesus, it is just a better life.”

So where does your allegiance really lie?
Are you ready to walk away from the noise and return to the way of Jesus?

The Kingdom still calls.

No King but Christ.

🤝Connect with Brian Drinkwine:

• Email: brian@briandrinkwine.com

• Website: https://briandrinkwine.com/

• Linkedin

• X

• Facebook

• Instagram 

• Ministry at Breakthrough Church

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Discussing reactions to Charlie Kirk's death

• Brian Drinkwine joins to discuss varied reactions to Kirk's passing

• Read Brains post here

• Examining potential blurred lines due to nationalism

• Questioning if some churches have lost focus on "no king but Jesus"

(0:48) Brian Drinkwine's background

• Grew up in Nashville, Tennessee in independent fundamental Baptist tradition

• Transitioned to Southern Baptist church and found faith at youth camp

• Experience in youth ministry and church planting

(4:09) The viral post about Charlie Kirk

• Origin of Drinkwine's post addressing the tragedy

• Unexpected widespread response and impact

• Dealing with the flood of messages and notifications

(10:45) Addressing the church's response

• Preparing a message to bring the congregation together

• Importance of uniting around Jesus rather than political parties

• Transcribing and adapting the message for social media

(23:52) Reflections on the memorial service

• Conflicting emotions during Charlie Kirk's memorial

• Redeeming moments and problematic statements

• Struggle with nationalistic undertones in Christian spaces

(29:19) The danger of political allegiance

• Exploring the concept of allegiance in faith and politics

• Matthew Bates' book "Salvation by Allegiance Alone"

• Warning against getting sucked back into allegiance to empire

(35:32) Early church perspective on empire

• Examining how early Christians responded to empire

• Importance of studying church fathers like Tertullian

• Unpopularity of this view in mainstream churches

(41:34) The malaise in modern Christianity

• Growing sense of unease among followers of Jesus

• Need to return to Jesus as the solution

• Importance of simplifying faith and focusing on basic teachings

(54:46) Christian nationalism and its impact

• Difference between patriotism and nationalism

• Danger of giving full allegiance to political parties

• Need for a prophetic voice while appreciating one's country

(1:06:56) Tools for self-reflection

• Developing a breakdown of political parties and Jesus as rival religions

• Creating a 10-point checklist for assessing political engagement

• Importance of distinguishing between political identity and identity in Christ

(1:17:34) Conclusion and future discussions

• Potential follow-up episode on political parties and Jesus as religions

• Invitation for listeners to engage in dialogue

• Plans for online community discussions on these issues

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114. Who Would Jesus Bomb? Questioning War Through Song with Jordan Smart

About this Episode

Musician Jordan Smart shares his journey from growing up in a religious household in Ohio to becoming a touring musician. He discusses his early disillusionment with the church, his deep connection to music, and how punk rock influenced his worldview. The conversation centers around Jordan's song "Who Would Jesus Bomb?", which caught Craig's attention and led to this discussion. Jordan explains that while he isn't vocally anti-war, his frustrations with how religious traditions can be manipulated for propaganda inspired him to write the song.

Jordan reflects, "I was raised to believe Jesus loves everyone, but seeing how that message gets twisted to justify violence really pushed me to write this song." The episode delves into the troubling support for war among Christians, the manipulation by governments, and the importance of compassion and humanity. Jordan also highlights his project, Songs Not Bombs, which raises funds for Palestinian children.

Craig and Jordan discuss poignant lines from the song, such as, "Would Jesus bomb the atheist, the Muslim, or the Jew?" and "Would you still believe in Jesus if you found out he was brown?" These lines challenge listeners to reconsider their views on war, politics, and faith. This episode is a thought-provoking listen for anyone interested in these critical issues.

Connect with Jordan Smart:

• Jordan Smart Music on Instagram

• Songs Not Bombs on Bandcamp - All Proceeds Go to Palestine

• Songs Not Bombs on Instagram

Episode Timestamps:

Timestamps:

(00:45) Jordan's Background

• Jordan shares his upbringing in Ohio and his religious family background

• His journey with music, starting from a young age

• Background with Christianity and anarchy

(02:00) Music as a Form of Protest

• Discussion on Jordan's project "Songs Not Bombs"

• Efforts to raise funds for the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund (PCRF)

• The impact of music in processing and responding to world events

• Anti-War Sentiments

• Jordan's long-standing anti-war beliefs were influenced by punk rock

• Reflections on the current state of global conflicts

(7:27) The Power of Music

• Craig and Jordan discuss the emotional impact of music

• Music as a medium to express complex feelings and ideas

• The ability of music to resonate with diverse audiences

(9:40) Christianity and War

• The troubling support for the war among some Christians

• The disconnect between Jesus' teachings and modern Christian behavior

• Reflections on the pro-war stance of certain Christian groups

(11:59) Generational Perspectives

• The younger generation's growing disillusionment with the current system

• The potential for the younger generation to drive change

• The impact of social media and 24-hour news cycles on youth

• Political Disillusionment

• Failures of both major political parties in the U.S.

• The need for a new approach to governance and societal issues

• Personal experiences with political disillusionment

(16:45) Personal and Political Pushback to Jordan’s Song “Who Would Jesus Bomb?”

• Jordan shares experiences with pushback from friends and family

• The challenges of speaking out on controversial issues

• The importance of staying true to one's beliefs.

(20:51) Echo Chambers and Authenticity

• The importance of breaking out of echo chambers

• Staying authentic and true to one's message

• The impact of authenticity on audience engagement

(24:26) The Role of the Military

• Discussion on military recruitment and its implications

• The true threats to freedom and liberty

• Reflections on the U.S. military's global impact

(30:43) Compassion and Humanity

• Emphasizing the need for compassion towards all people

• The interconnected nature of various social justice issues

• The role of compassion in creating a better world.

34:59 Challenging Beliefs

• Jordan's song as a tool to challenge deeply held beliefs

• The importance of questioning and re-evaluating one's views

• The impact of music in provoking thought and discussion

(39:40) Personal Journeys

• Craig shares his journey from neoconservatism to Christian anarchism

• The influence of early church writings on his views

• The role of personal experiences in shaping beliefs

(43:17) The Influence of Social Media

• The role of social media in shaping public opinion

• The dangers of misinformation and propaganda

• The impact of social media on political and social views

(47:27) Interconnected Issues

• The interconnected nature of various social justice issues

• The importance of addressing these issues collectively

• The role of music and activism in highlighting these connections.

(52:19) Political Theater

• The manipulation of public opinion by the ultra-wealthy ruling class

• The need for unity among the oppressed.

• The impact of political theater on societal divisions

(57:52) Blonde Hair and Blue Eyes: Jesus and Race

• The significance of recognizing Jesus' true background

• The implications of Jesus' ethnicity for modern Christianity

• The importance of challenging racial stereotypes in religious contexts.

(1:00:13) Encouragement and Support

• Jordan shares the overwhelming support he has received for his music

• The importance of continuing to speak out on important issues

• Reflections on the impact of his song "Who Would Jesus Bomb?"

(1:03:21) Final Thoughts

• Craig encourages Jordan to keep leaning into his message

• The importance of making a difference through music and activism

• Reflections on the need for boldness and authenticity in advocacy.

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100. Christian Ethics and Stateless Societies: The Anarchist Approach of the Perry Family

In the 100th episode of the podcast, host Craig Harguess is joined by guests Sarah and Jeff Perry from Voluntaryism in Action for a captivating exploration into the confluence of Christian values and the philosophy of anarchy. This milestone episode delves into the nuances of Christian Anarchism and Voluntarism, examining the personal metamorphoses that steer individuals away from traditional political paradigms toward a life of voluntary statelessness underpinned by faith. 

Throughout the episode, Sarah and Jeff Perry share the hurdles encountered in seeking a like-minded community and the challenges a society deeply ingrained with state-oriented ideologies poses. They shed light on the essence of fellowship and kinship, even in the digital sphere, for those who perceive themselves as misfits in a world unprepared for such radical ideas. The conversation also touches on the difficulty of communicating complex ideas over social media and the importance of giving people grace and meeting them where they are, as they were once in a similar position. The group emphasizes that the people they may joke about now were once reflections of their past selves, highlighting the transformative journey that led them to their current ideological stance. 

Taking an unexpected detour, the discussion ventures into the rustic world of homesteading, contrasting the merits of duck and chicken eggs and unpacking the symbolism it holds for Christian anarchists. This segment uncovers the layers of self-reliance and philosophical maturation, accompanied by a narrative of Jeff’s military service and how he underwent a profound ideological shift towards anarchism. 

The episode critically addresses the contentious interpretation of Romans 13 from an anarchist perspective, scrutinizing the alignment—or lack thereof—between modern democratic establishments and the teachings of Jesus. The discourse celebrates the significance of genuine leadership as demonstrated by Jesus, compared to the forceful rule often exhibited by earthly authorities. 

The discussion also spotlights the impactful initiatives of Voluntaryism in Action, emphasizing the human connections nurtured through voluntary charity. This starkly contrasts the impersonal touch of institutionalized aid, underscoring the human and spiritual dimensions of giving.

 Listeners are treated to a blend of humor, social commentary, and personal anecdotes that exemplify the intertwining of Christianity's core tenets with the principles of voluntaryism. As the 100th episode of the podcast, this thought-provoking journey offers an inspiring vision of community, support, and voluntary action shaped by love, grace, understanding, and Christian values.

Connect with the Perrys:

Website

Podcast: Voluntary View on Spotify, iTunes, Youtube

Key Moments:

00:02 Exploring Christian Anarchism and Voluntaryism

• Introduction to the intersection of Christianity and statelessness.

• Personal journeys from conventional politics to stateless existence based on Christian values.

• Importance of community, even if primarily online.

01:11 The Reach of the Bad Roman

• Discussion on the international reach of the podcast.

• Personal reflections on discovering Christian Anarchy.

• Surprise at finding a community with similar beliefs.

09:08 Duck Eggs and Freshly Laid Eggs

• Discussion on homesteading, duck vs. chicken eggs.

• Nutritional content and taste comparison.

• Personal anecdotes about self-sufficiency and philosophical evolution.

15:22 - Military Transition to Anarchism & Non-Judgmental Dialogue

• A former military medical officer's ideological shift towards anarchism.

• Impact of literature and libertarian thought on worldview.

• Emphasis on non-judgmental engagement within the anarchist community.

23:13 Christian Anarchism and the Bad Project

• Craig's journey from neoconservatism to Christian anarchism.

• Misconceptions about Christian Anarchy clarified.

• Sharing personal revelations about faith and statelessness.

26:41 Facebook Thread Drama and Miscommunication

• Addressing miscommunication and drama in a Facebook thread.

• Emphasis on understanding different perspectives within anarchism.

30:05 Understanding Anarchy and Romans 13 (11 Minutes)

• Interpretation of Romans 13 in the context of Christian anarchy.

• Biblical examples of resistance to secular authorities.

• Addressing objections related to submission to governing authorities.

33:57 Not Voting and Complaining About Government

• Discussion on Craig's decision not to vote and its implications.

• The counterintuitive nature of the argument that non-voters cannot complain.

38:41 Voluntarism and Anarchy

• Explanation of voluntarism as a subset of anarchy.

• Voluntarism focuses on voluntary interactions without coercion.

41:22 Religion, Government, and Accountability

• Differences between authority figures and authoritarianism.

• Critique of representative democracy and accountability.

• Reflection on the role of law enforcement and early church teachings.

49:57 Christian Anarchism and Voluntaryism Action

• Exploration of how Voluntaryism in Action embodies Christian Anarchist principles.

• Discussion on the organization's initiatives and community impact.

• Tension between Christianity and statism in church settings.

• Discomfort with nationalistic practices in worship.

• Early Christian teachings versus modern interpretations post-Constantine.

55:42 Voluntaryism

• Origins and evolution of a charitable organization, Voluntaryism in Action.

• Challenges and misconceptions surrounding non-profit work.

• Importance of voluntary giving and the impact of government programs on charity.

57:07 Obtaining & Maintaining 501(c)3 Status

• The process and challenges of obtaining 501(c)3 status for the organization.

• Insights into maintaining non-profit status and its importance.

01:04:18 Voluntaryism in Action

• Celebration of the work and achievements of Voluntaryism in Action.

• Personal anecdotes that underscore the organization's ethos.

01:09:36 Discussion on Voluntaryism in Action

• Impactful work of Voluntaryism in Action aligned with Christian values.

• Encouragement for listener support through donations or involvement.

• Challenges of social media censorship.

01:11:39 Twitter Campaigns and Content Restrictions

• Addressing the impact of content restrictions on social media campaigns.

• The organization's approach to creating and sharing provocative content.

Explore Related Episodes Below:

EXPLORE RELATED BLOG POSTS:

99. God's Country or Jesus’s Kingdom? Navigating the Nexus of Nationalism and Faith in America

Could the intertwining of faith and state authority be warping the very soul of Christianity? Unlock the complexities of Christian nationalism as we sit down for a round table to dissect the idolatrous juxtaposition of faith and governance. This episode dissects the potential hazards of conflating faith with state authority and how this can distort genuine religious practice and the core tenets of Christianity itself.

Join your host, Craig Harguess, along with friends of the show Chris Polk, Cody Cook, Paul Parayil, and Darren Freidinger, who help us peel back the layers of entanglement to reveal the true call of Faith. Witness a bold examination of Christian nationalism's historical claims and current implications in the realm of politics and social justice. 

As echoes of January 6th reverberate through the national consciousness, we scrutinize its portrayal as a Christian nationalist insurrection and the subsequent impact on political landscapes. The breach, the media's narrative, and the political fallout are dissected with a critical lens, contrasting the motives behind these actions with the broader implications for American society. We confront the seductive pull of cultural identity and the struggle to prioritize important global issues over trivial cultural squabbles. 

Through this dialogue, we strive to foster a deeper understanding of how a desire for a 'Christian nation' impacts both the spiritual body of Christ and our broader societal fabric. With a laid-back yet critical approach, we discuss the importance of curiosity and questioning in religious communities, advocating for meaningful action against social injustices rather than getting lost in cultural distractions. The panel lays out a thought-provoking journey through the contradictions of Christian nationalism, inviting you to reflect, question, and expand your understanding of faith in the public square.

The digital age has transformed the battleground of ideas, and we explore the challenges of engaging in meaningful discourse on social media amid generational technology. As we draw to a close, we advocate for deeper awareness and action, urging listeners not to be sidetracked by fleeting controversies but to remain steadfast in the pursuit of no king but Christ. Tune in for a thought-provoking journey through the contradictions and complexities of Christian nationalism.

Connect with Cody Cook:

• Libertarian Christian Insitute

• Podcast - Cantus Firmus

• Book - What Belongs to Caesar

• Listen to episode 89, Navigating Revivals in Christianity with Cody Cook

Connect with Chris Polk:

• Blue Ribbon Podcast

• Blue Ribbon Logistics

• Tik Tok

• Listen to More Bad Roman Episodes with Chris Polk:

  • Lessons from the Trucking Industry with Chris Polk, EP 77

  • Your Rights with Chris Polk & Jacob Daniel, EP 38

  • Home School: 2021 Year-End Round Table, EP 47

Connect with Paul Parayil:

• Paul Varkey Parayil on Facebook

Key Moments:

01:20 Christian Nationalism and Its Contradictions

• Christianity Today Article: What Is Christian Nationalism?

• Critiqued for distorting religious practice and undermining Christian principles.

• Enforcement of state authority is a key concern.

05:11 Christian Nationalism and the New Covenant

• Inconsistencies with Jesus' teachings are highlighted.

• Cherry-picking from the Old Testament discussed with guest Cody Cook.

15:20 Christian Nationalism and State Role

• Examination of Christian nationalism and its contrast with a kingdom culture mindset.

• Emphasis on the spiritual body of Christ over earthly rulers.

27:52 The Impact of Christian Nationalism

• Growth of the church during persecution discussed.

• Detachment from state affairs, detrimental effects, and pitfalls of striving for a "Christian nation."

33:13 January 6th and Christian Nationalism Discussion

• Discussion on the Capitol breach on January 6th.

• Examination of Christian nationalism, media portrayal, politicians' response, and intentions vs. implications of actions.

43:54 Exploring Christian Nationalism in Politics

• Aftermath of January 6th discussed.

• Accusations of Christian nationalism, manipulation by agencies, spectrum of ideologies, and complex relationship between American and Christian identities.

58:49 Challenges of Social Media Discourse

• Christian nationalism debates on social media.

• Generational gap in technology use, lack of curiosity in education and religion, and strategy for online discourse.

01:08:32 Christian Nationalism and Cultural Identity

• American democracy's defense of Anglo-Protestant culture discussed.

• Exclusion of Catholics and Orthodox believers, trivial cultural controversies distracting from pressing social injustices.

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EXPLORE RELATED BLOG POSTS:

88. Journeys of Faith: Unpacking Eschatology with Micah and John of City Square Podcast

About this Episode

Have you ever questioned your beliefs about the end times? Have you ever wondered about the different strands of eschatological thought and how they emerged? Strap in for a fascinating discussion with John and Micah, hosts of the City Square Podcast on eschatology. Listen in as we get into the heart of eschatology, a topic we've not extensively covered on the Bad Roman Podcast. It's an enlightening conversation filled with personal experiences, exciting insights, and a friendly rivalry over football.

Ready to expand your horizons? We explore different eschatological views, how popular culture influences these perspectives(The Left Behind Series), and the history of alternative beliefs and teachings. Hear about the three main views of eschatology (Amill, Pre-Mill, and Post-Mill), the interpretations of Christ's return, and the role of critical thinking and discernment in religious belief. We deconstruct the emergence of dispensationalism, where it came from, and its wide acceptance today.

But that’s not all! We’re pulling back the curtain on the City Square Podcast, revealing its conception, production, and mission. Hear how everyday people share stories of their faith and labor, contributing to the vibrant tapestry of human experience. We'll also discuss the bearing of eschatology on one's life and the potential it holds to shape our view of the world. With John and Micah as our guides, we journey through a landscape of belief, religion, and personal perspectives in this enlightening and entertaining episode.

Connect with our guests Micah and John:

Facebook

Instagram

Youtube

Spotify

Episode Timestamps:

01:10 - Who is Micah? 

• Husband, father, grew up Baptist before moving into Evenglicail philosophies 

• studied church father and found his way into LCMS (Lutheran Church Mission Synod)

02:56 - Who is John?

• Did not grow up in the Church

• God saved him in college

• He found his way into reform theology and planted a church in rural TX before moving to San Antonio

• Web Designer

04:27 West Texas & The Dallas Cowboys 

• Sports Rivalries

• Steve Young signed ball

9:36 Eschatology

• City Square Round Table

• The Rapture and Southern Baptist Churches view on it

• Preacher Ebb

• Dispensationalist Eschatology

12:33 John’s View of the Rapture and Eschatology

• Evangelical tradition’s relationship to dispensationalist Eschatology

• Left Behind Series

• Amillennialism Eschatology

• Traditional early Church view

16:14 Micah’s View and What is Amill?

• Amill

• Not a future literal thousand years, but Christ is reigning now with saints and will at some point return

• Post-mill

• Christ returns after minimum, but the world system gets progressively better until his return

• Pre-mill

• Christ returns before the millennium

• Dispensationalist 

• 18th century 19th century America

• Splits Christ's return into two parts

19:40 The Fear of Rapture as a Kid and where that gets directed 

• Not fear of self not being saved but those who do not believe

• Fear-based theology

• United Pentecostal

22:44 Why should we care about these different views as Christians?

• Dispensationalist in 2020

• “Everything was the anti-Christ”

• Most people don’t know there are multiple perspectives or the origins of Dispensationalism

• Dangers of going “too far”

• Eschatology as a barrier to a deeper faith

27:00 Israel’s Standing in Amill and Post-mill vs. Dispensationalism

• Book of Revelation and Daniel are important for Dispensationalism

• Symbolism vs. literalism 

• Multi Genere nature of the bible

• Eschatology is essential in informing how you shape your fundamental worldview

31:47 City Square Podcast and Covid-19

• Origin of name and logo

• Importance of talking to real people about who they are, what they do, and their faith

• Power of Stories

• Today and in the bible

• Authenticity

• Fandoms

• Covid and fake sports fans

45:20 Differences Between Lutheran and Reformed Theology

• John and Micah discuss Baptism

• Martin Luther

• Lord's Supper

• Christology

• Ecclesiology

• global church's view of Jesus' presence

53:54 How to connect with City Square and Micah and John

---

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Related Blog Post

83. The Cult of Statism with Larken Rose

About this Episode

Prominent anarchist activist and author Larken Rose joins Craig for a lively discussion on deprogramming people from the cult of statism. People are mostly inherently good at heart but have been indoctrinated from a young age to believe that government is a legitimate authority. Larken Rose makes a clear case for the immorality of government. Larken and Craig discuss how to engage statists using methods designed to combat their cognitive biases and awaken their inner anarchist.

Government preys on people's fears to keep them voting for corrupt politicians' forcible domination of their neighbors. To keep the rules, the ruling class (politicians) have enforcers (police) empowered to engage in acts of violence that most voters would bulk at committing against another human beings. Thus, when Christians vote, they are unwittingly breaking Jesus' golden rule and doing to others the exact opposite of what they want to have done to themselves. 

Christians should be the most suspicious of the state as it is a competing religious entity with all the rituals, fancy buildings and pomp. But unfortunately, some Christians strongly believe in the state and its illegitimate rulers even more than they believe in Jesus. These Christians need to be gently shown the contradictions in their beliefs and that when they advocate for a human ruler, they advocate for the subjugation of themselves and their neighbors. True followers of Jesus should see that Christianity and the cult of statism oppose each other, but Christianity and anarchy are not mutually exclusive.

Larken Rose:

The Most Dangerous Superstition 

YouTube

Candles in the Dark

Facebook

Episode Timestamps:

4:17 – About Larken Rose:

• Taught to doubt and debate ideas from a young age

• Began trying to decide what a legitimate or moral government looks like

• Accidentally fell off the political spectrum

• Realized that 'legitimate government' is an oxymoron

• Government has no special power to rob or legislate

• Assumes people have consciences and can distinguish right from wrong

• That's why he's an anarchist

•  Doesn't care what people say they believe about religion

• How they treat other people matters

• Do they abide by the non-aggression principle?

• If the government disappeared suddenly, Larken would prefer to be around Christian Statists than some atheist anarchists

• They are nicer people without the political monstrosity

• The quality of people matters most

16:09 – What currently ails the world?

• People have been taught to believe that when evil is committed by government authorities, it is no longer evil

• Individuals are tricked into cheering for evil

• Even Hitler, Stalin and Mao

• They fall for the false god

• Because their fears are played on

• Christians gloss over Matthew 20:25-28

• David Bently Hart New Testament Translation

24:33 – How to awaken someone else's inner anarchist

• People know the corruption of government but try not to know at the same time

• Larken Rose asks others to be personal, literal and specific while asking questions about why they need the government

• If they respond, "protect the innocent"

• Larken asks, "If I found a more efficient way to protect the innocent and refuse to pay for police. What should happen to me?"

• They get uncomfortable as Larken asks them to be specific about what should happen.

• They don't want to blurt out the violence of government

• No arguing is required

• Because if they advocate for a government they are advocating violence against peaceful citizens

• Wanting to "help the poor" is no longer fluffy-sounding goodness

• Should only the state have all the guns?

• Candles in the Dark

• No one wants to admit the violence they condone

• They don't dare look at the conflicts in their beliefs

• We need to lead them to the cognitive dissonance

41:36 – Don't do unto others what you don't want them to do unto you 

• Literally every voter does exactly what they don't want the other side to do to them

• Democracy is the best trick tyrants ever came up with

• It makes people mad at each other

• It makes people consent and vote for evil

• Politicians are all feasting together and laughing at your fears

• Did you just enable evil?

• The other bad guy option is irrelevant

• You cheer for your own subjugation

• You victimize everybody when you vote

• Jesus advocated serving others not lording it over them

• The Soviet Union, China and North Korea are all Constitutional Republics and have their own Bill of Rights

• It's wrong to ask someone else to commit evil for you

• Everyone who votes is a hypocrite without knowing it

• They vote for others to do things they know would be wrong if they did it themselves

• They are not going to go door-to-door to rob people to give to the poor

54:39 – Statism is a religion

• It has rituals, ceremonies, grandiose halls, pomp and tradition

• Voting is just choosing your new god

• The pieces of paper are religious texts

• Statism: The Most Dangerous Religion

• Government authority is not a real thing

• Pledging allegiance in churches doesn't happen in other nations

• Vaccines in churches

• It's frustrating to try to talk people out of their programming

• Need to use cult deprogramming tactics

• Belief in government is a cult

• They don't realize they hold a faith

• If people were living in a free society and someone came along and suggested we give them the power to forcibly rob and dominate we would say, 'no'

• But every election comes down to, 'give me power over you and everyone you know'

• People become violent if you dare bash the pledge of allegiance or trample on the flag

• Belief in government is a faith; not practical or logical

• People are trained to pledge loyalty to the authoritarian rulers of the US

• People are horrified if you admit to being unpatriotic

• Some Christians will become more upset when they hear, "I don't believe in government"
  then when they hear, "I don't believe in God"

• Government is what they really believe in

• Sometimes you need to offend people to shake them out of their indoctrination

1:08:28 – Government: The largest gang

• Without government, there would still be bad actors, but they would not be able to marshal the firepower that governments have

• People feel morally obliged to give them their extortion fees 

• All of the governmental power comes from the people they duped

• Taxpayers and enforcers

• Congressmen will not come to try to take your money personally

• They use it to make nuclear warheads and tanks

• Corporations cannot make us buy their products; if they tried, people would wipe them out

• No gang can enslave the population of the US

• Larken Rose is optimistic

• If people start ignoring the government and human rulers, the government is done

• The evil people are way outnumbered by good

• Rulers are just people

1:18:07 - Religion and anarchism are not mutually exclusive

• People can use gods to justify violence against others or as a standard to live by

• Government can never be legitimate, but belief in god is not automatically bad

• Not automatically authoritarian

• Religion has been used in the past to create authoritarian rulers too

• If society's standard is not initiating violence against others, that will allow peaceful co-existence

• It allows friendly discussions on all sorts of topics

• Christians have a reason to identify as anarchists: Jesus Christ

• Christian, who do you pay tribute to? Whom do you ask to save you from your enemies? If its people in Washington, you need to consider who your god is

---

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74. Can We Love More Than We Hate with Hodey Johns

About this Episode

This week Craig is joined by Hodey Johns, co-host of the Enemy of My Enemy podcast from the We Are Libertarians Network. They discuss focussing on love that looks like how God loves us, contrasting these with social media discussions that look more like hate. They talk about political statements that assume God hates those on the wrong end of our favorite policies. However, Christians shouldn't even be on the political spectrum. Can the love of Jesus be made visible when we fight online over our political positioning?

The Israelites received laws from the very hand of God, but they missed His heart for humanity to follow their consciences in loving their neighbors. Not even Jewish regulations could justify people in the sight of God because love is the fulfillment of the law. Jesus proved this when he righteously ignored the Levitical laws, and the Pharisees proved that one could follow the rules perfectly and still be unrighteous.

Unfortunately, we haven't learned this; hate may be more natural to Christians than love. We fail to worship God according to His desires when we fail to love those around us. As Christians, rather than looking for the boundaries we should not step on and assume that the rest of our conduct is loving, we need to seek the narrow path and aggressively love everyone, including our enemies. After all, this is how Christ first loved us.

Hodey Johns:

·       Facebook

·       Instagram

·       Twitter

Episode Timestamps:

1:56 – Introduction to Hodey Johns

·       Loves debates

·       Theologian

·       Writes about video games

·       Parents weren't very interested in their own Christian faith

o   Hodey was self-taught in Christianity and the Bible from a young age

·       Became a Mormon for 15 years

·       Lived all over the states

o   Noticed that Christian culture differs from place to place

6:19 – Christians on Social Media

·       Do more Christians need to put themselves out there on social media?

·       People don't change their minds in an instant or one conversation

o   They contemplate new ideas for a while

o   Like planting a new tree, waiting and tasting its fruit

·       We can't let others do the theological thinking for us

o   Not even religious folks

o   Jesus called the Pharisees a brood of vipers

·       No Christian has everything figured out

o   Christianity is a process

o   But we don't need to worry because we know who God is

16:14 – Love one another and love your enemy

·       Christians have a tough time balancing being in the world but not of the world

·       Thankfully, it's not all over once you sin

·       When you sin and recover, you get better

·       Christians wield hate and fear as a conversion method

o   We have all experienced hate

o   As Christians, we know that hate is evil

·       Love is the highest commandment

o   Jesus loved us and died for us

o   Would we give up our lives for those we are fighting with on social media

·       Love is not just the absence of hate

·       We ought to be aggressively loving

o   Christianity is a narrow path

·       Christianity should not be us saying, "God opposes [insert pet peeve here]"

·       There is real hate from both left- and right-wing Christians

·       Christians should not be on a political spectrum

·       Biden's student loan debt write-offs are not forgiveness

·       The left likes to think it has a monopoly on love

·       Jesus only spoke in parables to the public

o   Stories of love and goodness

o   We should be using stories too and asking, "who is the loving neighbour?"

·       Moral choices are required for good deeds to be produced

·       Paying taxes is not a virtue

33:09 – How ethical is the law?

·       Immigrants from Mexico who come to better their lives are human beings too

o   They cross an imaginary line to come here

o   The law of the land is in opposition to God's law

o   They only come to eat and feed their families

o   Christians don't seem to understand this

o   They are still image bearers of God

·       Jewish law was superior to today's laws

o   They still condemned people

o   They still allowed for the killing of Jesus Christ

·       The Bible can be summarised as people trying to justify themselves by the law

o   It was to show the way to being led by the Holy Spirit

o   It was to give the Israelites time to escape the slave mentality of Egypt

·       Where is your faith?

o   Do politicians protect you and your nation?

o   It should be in Jesus Christ

o   Why are Christians scared of immigrants?

o   In Jesus' death and resurrection Christianity grew

·       Christianity's hey-day was when Christians were stateless

·       The Israelites' laws changed from chapter to chapter of Leviticus

o   The law was being revised constantly

§  God was stable; His people were not

o   They couldn't enter the promised land until they realised the law could not save them

·       Even the wandering Israelites went astray when they tried to turn their relationship with God into a law-based system

40:19 – We can't legislate love.

·       The complex legal system that we have cannot be used to promote Christian values

o   The Israelites walked together with God and couldn't make the law work

·       Laws are written on paper, but let's try to figure out what is right

·       The will of God is to love one another

o   Love is the command

o   We worship someone else when we fail to love

·       When Christians think they are God, they become hateful

·       Are you really a Christian if you are not moving towards love?

·       Are we being motivated by the love of Christ?

45:57 – Church is unappealing when we don't have love

·       Church attendance has dropped off since 2013

·       There are reasons why people don't go to church

o   Hate-filled sermons

o   Hate-filled conversations with people after church

·       Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax-collectors

o   We should also be showing them the love of Christ

·       Jesus' measure of how to get into heaven was to forgive and not judge others

o   That is mentioned more often than other methods usually suggested

·       Homosexuality is not a sin

·       Whosoever is angry with his brother is at risk of being judged

·        Jesus said himself that if you call someone gay, you are in danger of being judged

·       Wanting to punish people crossing a border is wrong

·       Jesus ignored the law and healed on the Sabbath

o   This is why Hodey trashes the law

o   Jesus never denied breaking the Sabbath

·       The scriptures are stories of people working out morality in a complex world

·       The transformation of your heart is all that matters

·       You can break the law and be right

·       You can follow the Levitical law and be wrong

o   The Pharisees proved it

·       Jesus ignored the laws, so we can ignore immoral laws also

1:05:47 – Smoked meats

·       During covid, Hodey picked up a smoking meats hobby

·       Smoking meat makes Hodey a better person

o   It's a philosophical journey

o   The community is full of nice people

·       Well-cooked brisket is a bad piece of meat turned good through cooking

·       Mesquite trees make the best-smoked meats

---

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69. From angry An-Cap to peaceful Christian with John Krueger

About this Episode

Craig is joined by John Krueger for a conversation about his journey from being an angry Anarcho-Capitalist to a peaceful Anarcho-Christian. Unjust police killings, SWAT raids gone wrong and harsh lockdowns made John angry. He was eager to learn how to use a gun and imagined himself needing to protect his family from police violence. In the midst of this, the Holy Spirit met John and showed him a peaceful option.

Libertarian philosophy is peaceful, but we need Jesus and His word to have the whole picture. Craig and John advocate for Christian pacifism and examine what was going on in their hearts at the points when they both contemplated joining the military. Craig and John discuss the libertarian and Christian anarchist positions on the decriminalization of drugs, the real needs of terrorists, the US at war, gun control, and other contentious current issues.

The state is coercion and violence. Laws are enforced with fines that are begrudgingly paid to avoid the threat of violence or time spent in a cage. You cannot make people peaceful like this, using the state’s methods. But rather, we need to be those who allow the Holy Spirit to work in us to change the hearts and minds of those surrounding us; that is how social change works in the Kingdom. Let’s listen to Jesus and do things His way, forsaking violence and anger. Let’s work towards peace.

Connect with John Krueger on

• Practical Christology

• TikTok

Episode Timestamps:

1:27 – Who is John Krueger?

• From Columbus, Ohio

  • Grew up attending church

• 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 stood out

  • Paul writes about grace

• Journey to anarchism

  • Read Blue Like Jazz

    • Jesus was not a republican or a conservative

    • Became politically independent

  • Eventually considered voting

    • Began researching libertarianism

      • Clicked with his understanding of the Grace of God

  • Took a few more years to become an anarcho-capitalist

8:58 – Libertarians, drugs, and terrorists

• It’s easy to understand decriminalizing marijuana 

• Harder to understand decriminalizing heroin use

  • People shouldn’t be locked in a cage for it

  • People should be free to make their own choices

    • Provided they aren’t hurting others

• Osama Bin Laden needed Jesus

  • Not bombs

  • We can’t bomb people into peace

    • If we bomb all sinners, there will be no one left

• John and Craig let go of the war stuff last

  • The history of the Middle East is important

  • The US is still at war

    • More people are mad at the US for continuously bombing them

• Jesus said in His Kingdom:

  • You rule by washing feet

    • Only pagans lord it over their subjects

  • But instead, our “Christian Nation” goes to war

    • To spread democracy

• We don’t need the government for roads

• We don’t need police

• Losing friends because of speaking out about:

  • Getting troops home

  • Veteran suicides

  • Broken men and families

  • Sending the poor to fight a rich man’s war

20:11 – Craig and John considered joining the military

• Craig wanted to kill people out of anger after 911

  • Application rejected

    • 4 pounds over the weight limit

• John wanted to join the military because he felt powerless

  • Wanted to be great in battle - like David

  • Experienced God’s compassion for those killed on both sides

• Christians still justify war and killing

  • Jesus said when you have seen me, you have seen the Father

  • There is nothing about Jesus’ life that says you can kill in war

• Pacifism is the way for Christians

  • Craig still gets a hard time from Christians for his pacifist stance

  • The early church was 100% pacifist

    • Even to their own deaths

  • Jesus healed the Roman soldier and admonished Peter

    • When Jesus disarmed Peter, he disarmed every Christian

26:24 – Libertarians and Gun Control

• After shootings those on the left talk about taking away guns

• But guns will be taken away by force

  • Giving more power to the state

• Need to study history

• We don’t advocate for gun control

  • It’s enforced by violence

  • We should bear God’s peace instead

• The left sees calls to reduce state size as calls to let people starve

• John does not own guns, 

  • Only advocates for less government action

• We don’t use the state for any reason

• The same people who take guns away are those who shoot unarmed black men

• Fines are enforced through the threat of violence

• The ‘hero’ who ended the life of a would-be shooter still ended a life

• Jesus would not be training churches to enact violence

• We are here to bring the gospel to people

37:10 – From angry An-Cap to peaceful Christian Anarchist

• When John was an An-Cap he was angry at the state

  • Police killings made him angry

  • Made him want to get into guns

• Angry at government shutdowns because of shutdowns

• Holy Spirit showed him it would be better to defy the government in peaceful ways

  • Sneakily helping people

  • Blessing those who curse

  • Not needing to worry about what to say in front of judges

• Libertarians are never happy with the government

  • No matter who is in power they are stuffing everything up

  • Anger is not the fruit of the spirit

• Romans 11-14 need to be read together

  • Our heart position should be peaceful

• Libertarians need Jesus to have the full picture

42:48 – Romans 13 and libertarianism

• “Submit” and “obey” are not the same

  • When Christians get it wrong: 

    • They end up supporting government atrocities

    • Lives will be ruined

    • The state becomes an idol

• The early church withheld communion from people who worked for the state

  • Unless people were already soldiers

    • And had sworn off killing or oppressing people

    • None wore their weapons

    • All were to serve

• Getting Christians into power will not help

  • It is no longer Christianity

• The power is the wrong power

  • The Holy Spirit is the only power we need

  • Political power is force

  • Christians do not need to take the ”Seven Mountains” of power

  • These do not sound like Jesus

• Polycarp would not denounce Jesus

  • In the face of his own death

  • King Jesus has never done me any harm

• Everything that the state does harms somebody in some fashion

  • If they are helping you, they are harming someone else

  • The state is not a protector

• Jesus Christ is the only King

  • He wants the best for us

54:12 – How should we pray for government?

• We should pray for government and leaders

  • Craig prays for the state to end

  • The current chaos is caused by the state

  • We need to follow Jesus and walk away

  • John prays for leadership to know the gospel

    • Not the American folklore

    • But the true gospel

• Craig will take the words of the early church fathers over pastors

  • When modern pastors disagree with the early church

  • They still screwed things up

  • They aren’t Jesus

  • They were closer in time to Jesus

  • We need to get back to that

    • What we are doing now as the church is not working

• The Reformers had a blind spot when it came to the church

  • They killed people

• The Anabaptists became the Mennonites and Amish

  • They were peaceful

• Catholics are going back to mysticism

  • The church fathers and grace teachings

1:02:54 – Let’s bring it back to Jesus

• Listen to Jesus

  • Love your neighbor

  • Love your enemy

  • Love God

• It’s impossible to follow His teachings

  • But we should try:

    • Working towards good

    • Not working toward violence

    • Not working towards anger or hate

    • Working towards peace

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