153. Star-Spangled Jesus: Waking up From Christian Nationalism with April Ajoy

What happens when we wrap the cross in a flag and call it faith?

What happens when our love for country grows louder than our love for enemies?

This is a wake-up story. It is about good people who meant well. It is about churches that wanted to do the right thing. It is about a path that seemed holy and strong, but slowly bent us away from Jesus. It is also about grace. How the Spirit opens our eyes. How laughter can heal shame. How the Kingdom looks nothing like the empire.

Our guide is April Ajoy. She grew up inside this world. She knows the songs. She knows the slogans. She also knows the moment when you hear Jesus whisper, “My Kingdom is not of this world,” and it finally lands. In her words, most people who live this way “just think they’re being good Christians.”

Inside the story, it felt like faith

If you grew up in a church like Craig’s or April’s, politics did not feel like politics. It felt like faith. It felt like doing your duty for God. You listened to your pastor. You loved your country. You voted for the “Christian” team. No one said, “We are Christian nationalists.” People said, “We love Jesus. We love America. We want what’s right.”

That is why this is so sticky. You can be sincere. You can be kind. You can also be discipled by a party and not know it. April names it out loud: the biggest problem is not people with evil plans; it’s people who honestly think they’re walking with Jesus while they carry the empire’s sword in their other hand.

Craig admits he once called the GOP “God’s own party.” He laughs now, because he remembers repeating it like a memorized verse. It was the air they breathed.

When you are inside the story, it all makes sense. When Jesus brings you outside, you start seeing the rot. You notice how the fruit tastes. You notice how fear leads the dance. And then you begin to change.

Craig meets April, and something clicks

Craig found April’s work online. He heard her tell stories that felt like his own. Texas. Tennessee. Sports teams. Church life. And a slow shift from party loyalty to King Jesus. He listened to Star-Spangled Jesus and felt like he was hearing pieces of his life sung back to him.

This is how change often starts. Not with a fight. Not with a headline. With a voice that sounds like home, saying true things in a kind way.

Humor tells the truth without the knives

April uses humor on purpose. Not to mock. Not to dunk. To lower the heat. To make space for honesty. She talks about a public “Jesus juke,” where someone tries to rush past hard facts with a holy-sounding line. She tells a story about a famous post that tried to make the Epstein files into a quick lesson about God’s “files.” It was a dodge. It was a “Jesus juke.” Craig loved the term the moment he heard it and wrote it down.

Humor helps. It lets you say, “Hey, we all do this.” It lets people breathe and listen. It reminds us that repentance is good news, not a beating.

When the flag walks into church

Craig remembers the day his church stood for the Pledge of Allegiance in a Sunday service. They honored the troops. They sang “patriotic psalms.” It felt normal. It felt right. It felt like “we are a Christian nation.” Years later he calls it what it was: a rival allegiance sitting next to the cross. He did not see it then. He sees it now.

He says the title of April’s book sticks because it pictures what he saw: Jesus wrapped in a flag. It looks bold. It feels safe. But it slowly swaps the words of the Sermon on the Mount for the words of the party platform. It takes your heart a few inches at a time, until the beat is different and you barely notice.

April nods. She has seen the same thing. She has seen pulpits become podiums. She has seen the cross used as a logo for campaigns. She has seen how easy it is to confuse God’s Kingdom with earthly kingdoms. Jesus said His Kingdom is not from here. We forget that line at our own risk.

“We just thought we were the good guys”

Most of us did not wake up one day and choose empire over Kingdom. We chose “the good guys.” We believed the horror stories about the other side. We assumed force was needed to save what we loved. April tells a story from grad school. After watching a fear-heavy film, she and friends made a Romney campaign video. They thought the nation was on the brink. Fear felt like faith. It also felt normal in their circles.

Looking back, she calls the film “propaganda.” That word can sting. But it fits. Propaganda is anything that trains you to trust Caesar more than Christ, to see neighbors as problems, and to baptize the use of force. Once you name it, you can step out of it.

“Good Christians” vs. the Kingdom of Jesus

April’s simple line keeps echoing: people caught in Christian nationalism do not think they are in a movement. They think they are being faithful. That is the danger. If you believe this is faithfulness, you will double down whenever someone questions it. You will feel attacked. You will defend your team as if you are defending Jesus.

But Jesus did not run for office. He did not build a voting bloc. He did not command His friends to rule others. He told them to love enemies, bless those who curse, forgive seventy-seven times, and pick up a cross. That is not a platform. That is a life.

The early church read the Sermon on the Mount like marching orders. They did not ask Caesar to pass better laws. They became better neighbors. They cared for the poor. They refused to kill. They told the truth. They shared what they had. They chose the Lamb over the sword.

When our modern faith looks more like a campaign than a cross, it is time to repent. Not with shame, but with joy. Jesus is better than any flag.

The line we cross without noticing

How do you know you have drifted from faith into nationalism? April offers a simple test. If you believe something is a sin, you live by that belief. But when you try to make the state force your belief on your neighbor, you have stepped into nationalist territory. The “you can’t do that because it violates my belief” move is a tell. It shifts the center from Christ to control.

Craig applies that to hot-button issues, including Roe v. Wade. He says even if you disagree with abortion, the government should not have power over someone else’s body. “Why don’t we just leave it between the doctor and the person?” he asks. “Everybody’s solution is always government.”

That is a brave thing to say out loud in our times. It is also a clean way to test our hearts. Are we trying to disciple our neighbor or dominate them? Are we offering help or passing a law? Jesus never forced anyone into the Kingdom. He invited and loved.

From the feed to the table

Another test is where we spend our energy. If our “discipleship” happens mainly on social media, we will start to sound like social media. Craig confesses he used to fight online. He learned that face-to-face talks feel different. Looking someone in the eye slows you down. It builds trust. It shifts you from points to people. That is where hearts change.

It does not mean the internet is useless. People watch. People listen. Seeds get planted. But if we want to look like Jesus, we will need more tables than threads. We will need more meals than memes. We will need to move from “owning” to “serving.”

Why laughter matters when the truth hurts

Shame shuts people down. Fear makes people dig in. Humor does something different. It opens a window. It lets light in without burning. That is what April is doing. She names things like “Jesus jukes” and smiles. She lets us see the dodge, but she gives us room to breathe. We are all tempted to spiritualize what we do not want to face. Laughter helps us face it without hating ourselves. Craig’s reaction says it all: “I’ve never heard that before. I love it.”

Humor, used well, is a form of mercy. It is truth with a warm hand on your shoulder. It makes change feel possible.

“No King but Christ” is not a slogan; it is a path

Talk is easy. Slogans are easy. The Kingdom is a way of life. Here is what it looks like in plain steps:

• Read the words of Jesus out loud. Slowly. Matthew 5–7. Luke 6. John 13–17. Let them shape you.

• Bless the person you dislike. Do one small act of help with no strings.

• Stop baptizing your anger. If you post in rage, repent to the person you targeted.

• Refuse coercion as a tool. Offer help, not control.

• Do your politics at a table. Eat with people who vote different. Listen twice as much as you speak.

• Keep your eyes on the cross, not the flag. The flag changes. The Kingdom does not.

These are small, human moves. But that is the point. The Kingdom is yeast and seeds. It grows in simple soil.

The difference that makes all the difference

Here is the heart of it. We are not calling people to hate their country. We are calling people to love Jesus more than their country. To refuse to hurt neighbors in His name. To stop using the state to get our way. To trust slow love over fast force. To pick up a cross instead of a club.

This is not soft. It is strong. Enemy-love is harder than war talk. Forgiveness is harder than payback. Honesty is harder than spin. But this is the way.

When the church remembers this, the church starts to look like Jesus again.

Highlights & Takeaways

• Christian nationalism often feels like faith from the inside; many think they’re being faithful to Jesus, not political.

• Symbols preach. A flag beside the cross tells a story about who is really in charge. Craig lived it before he saw it.

• Humor heals. Naming the “Jesus juke” helps us face spin without shame and move toward truth together.

• Coercion is not the Christian way. Loving neighbors means refusing to force them to live by our convictions through the state.

• Stop outsourcing love to Caesar. “Leave it between the doctor and the person” models neighbor-first, Kingdom-first ethics.

• Move from threads to tables. Real change is face to face, not just online.

Listen & Reflect

🎧 Listen: Notice how humor lowers the heat. April’s “Jesus juke” line helps people admit the dodge without feeling attacked. Where might that help in your circle?

💬 Reflect: Have you ever tried to make the state enforce your beliefs on a neighbor? What would it look like to trust Jesus instead of force?

📖 Read: Matthew 5–7 this week. Ask, “Do my politics look like this?”

🤝 Practice: Take one conversation offline. Invite someone you disagree with to coffee. Listen for 15 minutes before you make a single claim.

🤝Connect with April Ajoy:

• Get the book: Star-Spangled Jesus: Leaving Christian Nationalism and Finding A True Faith

  • Listen to the Book on Spotify like Craig did!

• LinkTree

  • Instagram: @aprilajoy

  • Facebook: April Ajoy

  • X (Twitter): @aprilajoyr

  • TikTok: @aprilajoy

• Podcast: The Tim and April Show, YouTube, Instagram, Apple Podcast, Spotify

Episode Timestamps:

(0:00) Waking up from Christian nationalism

• Craig sets the theme and welcomes April Ajoy

• Why this matters for real people in real churches

• What “No King but Christ” means for this talk

(1:04) Finding April’s work

• Craig hears his own story in April’s voice

• Texas, Tennessee, and church culture they both know

• From party loyalty to the way of Jesus

(2:18) “Good Christians” and blind spots

• Most don’t think they’re nationalists; they think they’re faithful

• How the party line can sound like discipleship

• Cracks show when we sit with the Sermon on the Mount

(3:25) April’s current projects

• The Tim and April Show and weekly conversations

• Short videos that name the problem with kindness

• Where to follow April and keep learning

(10:31) Threads vs. tables

• Why online fights feel different than face-to-face talks

• Looking people in the eye builds trust and honesty

• Move from winning points to loving people

(12:48) Flags in the sanctuary

• Pledging in church felt normal at the time

• Symbols preach louder than we think

• Cross first, not country first

(15:05) The “Jesus juke”

• How holy talk can dodge hard truth

• Humor lowers the heat and opens ears

• We can face facts without shame

(18:22) Fear and propaganda

• A movie night that stirred panic

• A DIY campaign video born from fear

• Learning to spot spin dressed up as faith

(26:10) From conviction to control

• The quiet shift from “I won’t” to “you can’t”

• Why coercion betrays the way of Christ

• Invitation beats force every time

(30:44) Stop outsourcing love to Caesar

• “Leave it between the doctor and the person”

• Government power is a blunt tool

• Choose neighbor-first solutions

(45:50) Where to find April

• TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook @AprilAjoy

• Gentle tone, clear truth, steady practice

• Learn in small bites all week

(52:12) No King but Christ

• What faithfulness looks like in a land of flags

• Small acts of love over loud culture wars

• A simple path back to Jesus

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Judas the OG Christian Nationalist: Why Imposters Are Worse Than Opponents with Domenic Scarcella

When you hear “Judas Iscariot,” what comes to mind? Most of us picture betrayal — the silver coins, the kiss in the garden. But what if Judas’s real mistake wasn’t greed, it was compromise? What if he wasn’t just a traitor, but the first disciple to decide that Jesus would be more effective with a little help from the government?

In this episode of The Bad Roman Podcast, Craig Hargis welcomes back Domenic Scarcella, author of Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen, to ask a provocative question:

 👉 Was Judas the original Christian nationalist?

The Respectable Disciple: Judas as the “Normie”

Domenic doesn’t see Judas as a cartoon villain. He sees him as the reasonable one, the disciple who wanted Jesus to tone it down a bit, to play nice with the powers that be.

“Judas is the guy who wanted Jesus to be more compatible with the government,” Domenic says. “He’s the first person to think the Kingdom would work better if it looked a little more like the empire.”

That’s what makes Judas so hauntingly familiar. He’s not the rebel in the shadows; he’s the insider trying to make Jesus palatable to power.

Imposter Faith: Antichrist vs. Contra Christ

Judas’s story isn’t just about betrayal; it’s about the distortion of discipleship. Domenic draws a line between being against Christ (contra) and trying to replace Him (anti).

“Anti doesn’t mean ‘against,’” he explains. “It means ‘imposter.’ That’s what makes Antichrist worse than Contra Christ — trying to change Jesus into something else.”

That’s the heart of Christian nationalism: turning Jesus from the Lamb who lays down His life into the lion who roars for our tribe. And it’s not new. It’s just Judas’s logic reborn, century after century.

The Politics of Coercion

Craig and Domenic agree — Jesus never used force to accomplish His mission. Not once. His Kingdom runs on persuasion, not power.

“There are zero examples in the Gospels of Jesus using coercion,” Domenic says. “But there are plenty of examples of Him confronting coercion — especially in institutions.”

That contrast cuts deep in an age when many still believe we can vote the Kingdom in.

You can’t legislate love your enemies.

You can’t bomb your neighbor and call it freedom.

You can’t baptize coercion and call it righteousness.

Constantine’s Shadow: From Cross to Crown

What Judas began in miniature, Constantine perfected in empire.
Once Christianity became the state religion, the incentives flipped.
It no longer cost you to follow Jesus — it paid.

“To be Christian used to mean giving up power,” Domenic notes. “After Constantine, it meant gaining it.”

That shift is what Domenic calls the inflection point of history — when Christendom traded cruciform faith for political privilege. And that’s the same trade Christians still make today every time we seek safety, status, or influence instead of obedience.

The Illness That Didn’t Kill the Body

If Judas represents the infection, the miracle is that the Body of Christ still lives. Seventeen hundred years of compromise haven’t destroyed the Church — because grace, not greatness, keeps it alive.

“Our imperfections aren’t deal breakers,” Domenic says. “They’re the reason the Gospel exists.”

The Church’s survival isn’t proof that it got politics right; it’s proof that Jesus still heals, still forgives, still chooses imperfect people to bear His name.

Faithfulness Over Familiarity

Judas’s betrayal wasn’t a rejection of Jesus — it was a rebranding of Him. He wanted a Jesus who would “fit,” who could climb the ladder and earn the world’s respect. Sound familiar?

It’s the same spirit that drives churches to bless flags, defend wars, and fear being called unpatriotic. But the Gospel doesn’t need a PR strategy. It needs a people willing to live as if Jesus meant what He said.

No King but Christ

Domenic sums it up with quiet conviction:

“Judas was the normal one. The faithful ones were the weirdos.”

That’s the paradox of the Kingdom. The weirdos — the ones who refuse to kneel to Caesar, who love enemies instead of destroying them — are the ones who look most like Jesus.

Maybe faithfulness has always looked like being a bad Roman.

Listen & Reflect

🎧 Listen to the full episode: Judas the OG Christian Nationalist: Imposter Faith vs. the Politics of the Lamb with Domenic Scarcella — available on all major podcast platforms.

💬 Question for reflection:
If Judas’s mistake was trying to make Jesus more “respectable,” where might we be doing the same today.

📖 Scriptures to Revisit:
Matthew 26 | Luke 22 | John 13 | Acts 1 | 1 John 2 | Philippians 2:5–8 | Matthew 6:24

🤝Connect with Domenic Scarcella:

• Book: Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen

• Audio Content: Sunday Buffet Podcast & The Friday Meditation Radio

• Substack: Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen

• Twitter (X) @GoodNeighBadCit

Highlights & Takeaways

• Judas wasn’t a rebel; he was reasonable, and that’s what made him dangerous.

• Antichrist means “imposter,” not “opponent.” Judas wanted to change Jesus, not reject Him.

• Jesus never used coercion, His power is persuasion through love.

• Constantine’s alliance with empire flipped Christianity’s social incentives.

• Seventeen centuries later, the Church still struggles with Judas’s temptation: respectability over faithfulness.

• The remnant remains, imperfect people living out “No King but Christ.”

• Grace keeps the Gospel alive even in a compromised Church.

• The call isn’t to fix empire, but to embody the Kingdom.

EPISODE TIMESTAMPS

(0:22) Judas: the OG Christian nationalist?

• Craig introduces returning guest Domenic Scarcella

  • Previous episode with Domenic: Christianity Unpacked in "Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen" with Domenic Scarcella

• Framing Judas as the “normie” disciple tempted by respectability

(1:05) “Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen”

• Recapping Domenic’s first appearance in 2023

• Why this conversation still matters

(1:58) What Domenic’s been building

• Substack essays, Sunday Buffet, and Friday Meditation Radio

• Expanding from book to movement

• Domenic’s Judas Article

(4:02) Five years of The Bad Roman

• Craig reflects on God’s provision and the journey so far

• Finding content in divine timing, not worry

(7:26) Judas as “the normal guy”

• Respectable, pragmatic, compromise-driven

• Why that’s more dangerous than open opposition

(11:42) “Judas 8:2” and the mercy of Jesus

• Jesus feeds and washes the feet of His betrayer

• What real mercy looks like in a world of self-interest

(13:55) Setting the Holy Week scene

• Jesus teaches in public, tensions rise in the temple

• How power fears love that won’t be controlled

(20:16) Modern parallels

• Lockdowns, fear, and Christians who “went along to get along”

• Choosing safety over truth and calling it obedience

(21:35) The deal that wasn’t

• Judas overplays his hand; the priests use him for their agenda

• When compromise becomes complicity

(26:05) Antichrist vs. Contra Christ

• Domenic’s key distinction: imposter faith vs. honest rejection

• Why trying to change Jesus is worse than denying Him

(30:10) Coercion and the Kingdom

• No Gospel precedent for force

• How Jesus subverts coercion with voluntary love

(34:03) Constantine’s inflection point

• From persecuted faith to state-approved religion

• When “Christian” became a brand of empire

(38:16) Three models of church–state fusion

• Hosios’s “Two Swords,” Ambrose’s “Overlap,” Eusebius’s “Co-Regency”

• Different roads to the same compromise

(47:50) The remnant remains

• Good neighbors, bad citizens, the politics of the Lamb

• The hope of faithfulness in small numbers

(53:25) Imperfect messengers, perfect Gospel

•  Grace, not purity, sustains the Church

•  How God uses flawed voices for truth

(56:42) Where to find Domenic

• Substack, Sunday Buffet, Meditation Radio

• Continuing the conversation

🔗 Join the Movement🔗

• Blog submissions: thebadroman.com/contribute-to-the-blog

• Connect with us on social: thebadroman.com/social-links

• Want to get more involved? Request to join the private discussion group on Facebook (Bad Romans Only!!)

• No King but Christ Network:nokingbutchristnetwork.com

💕 Support the Project 💕

If this conversation with Domenic on Judas as the OG Christian nationalist helped you refocus on Jesus, not party, not power, please consider supporting The Bad Roman Project.

Your gift keeps “No King but Christ” in the feed and pushes back against the impulse to baptize coercion. As always, 100% of donations above production costs go to local Memphis charities.

🌶️ SALSA THE LOVE 🌶️

Donations are cool, but salsa is spicy (or mild, Judas 👀). Every jar fuels episodes that challenge Christian entanglement and call us back to Jesus’ way.

Join the craze at badromansalsa.com and snack your way to more Kingdom conversations.

FREE ACTION: Share the Episode, Start a Conversation with a Fellow Christian

Know a friend who thinks “Christian nation” is the point? Send them this episode with Domenic Scarcella and spark a better conversation:

Are we following Jesus, or asking Him to bless our politics?

If Judas tried to make Jesus respectable to rulers, are we doing the same?

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146. Christianity without Compromise: Jesus Centered Life, Not Left or Right with Jake Doberenz

When Christians step into the political arena, do we realize how much compromise it takes to stay there?

It’s easy to think that casting a vote, joining a campaign, or posting about “God and country” is just doing our civic duty. But what happens when the cross gets buried under a flag and we call that faithfulness?

In this episode of The Bad Roman Podcast, Craig Hargis sits down with Jake Doberenz, host of Christianity Without Compromise and writer of the Smashing Idols Substack, to unpack what happens when believers give their loyalty to Caesar and call it discipleship. From a rigged high-school election to the moral chaos of modern war, this conversation asks a dangerous question:

👉 Can you follow Jesus without compromise and still play the political game?

The Illusion of Influence: Why Our Votes Don’t Redeem the System

Jake shares a funny but revealing story from high school: helping count ballots in a student election that didn’t add up. The “safe” candidate won, even though the “popular” one clearly had more votes.

It’s small potatoes compared to Washington, D.C., but the lesson hit deep – politics is messy because power always corrupts. Even good intentions get swallowed up by systems built on ambition, control, and fear.

The same thing happens every election season in America. Christians line up behind the lesser of two evils and call it righteousness, forgetting that evil (lesser or not) is still evil. As Craig puts it:

“We’re outsourcing our sin to politicians and calling it stewardship.”

We tell ourselves that our guy will make a difference, that our vote “matters.” But as history and Scripture both show, when human power is the goal, the Kingdom always gets compromised.

Israel’s King Problem: A Warning from 1 Samuel 8

When Israel demanded a king, God warned them exactly what would happen:

“He will take your sons for his army, your daughters for his servants, your fields for his gain. You will cry out because of your king, but the Lord will not answer you.” (1 Samuel 8)

They wanted to be “like the nations.” They wanted the comfort of a visible ruler, something tangible they could trust. But a king, any king, always costs something. And as Jake points out, the story of David proves it.

David began as a humble man after God’s heart, refusing to kill Saul, honoring God above self. But the moment he put on the crown, the corruption began. Politics twisted even the best of men.

Sound familiar? We see it every election cycle. The promises start holy, the slogans sound moral, but once power hits the bloodstream, compromise follows.

The lesson is timeless: You can’t have a king and still claim “No King but Christ.”

Psalm 146: A Better Political Manifesto

If the modern church needs a political platform, Psalm 146 should be it:

“Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save… Blessed are those whose help is the God of Jacob.”

Politicians die. Policies change. Empires fall. But the Kingdom of God is consistent: feeding the hungry, freeing prisoners, lifting up the oppressed, and frustrating the wicked.

The psalmist describes God’s Kingdom as everything the state isn’t: compassionate instead of coercive, restorative instead of retaliatory, faithful instead of fickle.

When Christians defend injustice in the name of national interest, when we justify violence because it’s “our side” doing it, we aren’t advancing the Kingdom…we’re betraying it.

Romans 12 Before Romans 13

Jake makes a crucial point: never read Romans 13 before Romans 12.

Romans 12 tells us to bless our enemies, to overcome evil with good, and to refuse revenge. Then comes Romans 13, the chapter everyone loves to quote to justify obedience to government.

But if your reading of Romans 13 gives Caesar permission to do what Jesus forbids you to do, you’ve missed the point. The passage isn’t a loophole for Christians to fund or bless violence, it’s a reminder that God can use even corrupt governments for His purposes. It’s descriptive, not prescriptive.

The call remains the same: love your enemies, feed your enemies, pray for those who persecute you.

That’s the real revolution.

Consistency: The Most Radical Witness

Craig and Jake both circle back to one word: consistency.

It’s what made Jesus so magnetic. He didn’t just preach love of enemy, He practiced it, even as they nailed Him to a cross.

Consistency is what gives the gospel credibility. When Christians say “love your neighbor” but vote for leaders who bomb them, the world notices. When we preach peace but cheer for war, seekers walk away.

Jake shared a story of a friend who left the faith after watching Christians justify the slaughter in Gaza. “If this is Christianity,” he said, “I want nothing to do with it.”

That’s the cost of inconsistency. Not just hypocrisy, but lost souls.

Repentance and Reorientation

Repentance isn’t a guilt trip. It’s a direction change. As the Bible Project puts it, repentance means to turn around.

If your politics have hardened your heart, turn around.
If you’ve placed hope in princes and policies, turn around.
If you’ve excused violence because your side did it, turn around.

Refocus on the Sermon on the Mount. Build your life, and your worldview, on that mountain, not Capitol Hill.

A Different Kind of Politics

Neither Craig nor Jake are anti-political, they’re anti-idolatry. They believe in a Kingdom politics rooted in the Beatitudes, not ballots.

As Jake said:

“Jesus has a politics. But it looks nothing like America, or Uganda, or anywhere else on earth.”

The Kingdom of God is a government without coercion, a rule where the King dies for His enemies instead of killing them. That’s the politics of the Lamb.

It’s time for the church to recover it.

No King but Christ

When we call Jesus “King,” it’s not a metaphor. It’s an allegiance statement. It means nobody else gets to be king, not presidents, not pastors, not parties.

Craig sums it up perfectly:

“My allegiance is to Jesus. Not a president, not a senator, not a mayor. Jesus Christ alone.”

If that sounds radical, good. The early church was called radical too. Polycarp, Origen, and Tertullian all refused to worship the emperor. They were accused of being bad Romans.

Maybe that’s what faithfulness still looks like today.

Listen & Reflect

🎧 Listen to the full episode: Christianity without Compromise: Jesus Centered Life, Not Left or Right with Jake Doberenz, available on all major podcast platforms.

💬 Question for reflection:
If Jesus is King, what does that mean for how you engage with politics, power, and national identity?

📖 Scriptures to Revisit:
1 Samuel 8 | Psalm 146 | Matthew 5–7 | Romans 12–13

🤝Connect with Jake Doberenz:

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Introducing guest Jake Doberins

• Host of Christianity Without Compromise and author of Smashing Idols SubStack

• Exploring Christian involvement in politics and its real-world impact

(1:00) From “Smashing Idols” to “Christianity Without Compromise”

• Jake explains the podcast’s name change for clarity and focus

• Connection between his Substack and podcast projects

(2:26) Standing firm on the words of Jesus

• Discussing the need for consistency in following Christ’s teachings

• Rejecting political debates and distractions

(4:07) Jake’s background and calling

• Biblical Studies and Theological Studies degrees

• From church ministry to media ministry and podcast production

(8:00) Early political experience

• Jake’s role as Republican Club president in high school

• First-hand exposure to campaigns and local politics

(15:22) Wrestling with faith and politics

• Questioning whether political life aligns with Christian convictions

• Recognizing the temptation to compromise for success

(19:52) The cost of Christian political involvement

• Exploring how “outsourcing sin to Caesar” harms others

• Challenging Christians to see the damage caused by state loyalty

(24:12) Consistency as Christian witness

• Why inconsistency weakens the gospel message

• The power of living out “No King but Christ”

(28:51) 1 Samuel 8 and Israel’s demand for a king

• God’s warning about taxation, conscription, and oppression

• Parallels between ancient Israel and modern Christian nationalism

(32:00) Reading Romans 13 through Romans 12

• Understanding submission to government through enemy-love

• The Sermon on the Mount as the Christian’s true political manifesto

(35:35) The corrupting nature of power

• How King David’s downfall reveals the danger of authority

• Politics as a distraction from devotion to Jesus

(40:17) Psalm 146 — trusting God, not princes

• Contrast between human rulers and God’s faithfulness

• Reminder that only God’s Kingdom endures

(45:39) The mission behind Christianity Without Compromise

• Refocusing believers on Jesus over modern idols

• Addressing politics, Christian nationalism, and misplaced loyalties

(50:28) Encouragement for Christian creators

• Craig calls for more podcasts, blogs, and projects centered on Jesus

Importance of sharing the message: No King but Christ

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145. Charlie Kirk and the Lamb of God: Can You Carry the Flag and the Cross at the Same Time?

After Charlie Kirk’s tragic death, a deeper conversation has surfaced about the growing entanglement of Christianity and politics.

This episode of The Bad Roman Podcast steps into that tension and explores what happens when the Church trades the cross for a campaign.

Our guest, Brian Drinkwine, is a pastor and church planter who has walked that road himself. He went from a passionate political believer to a follower of Christ learning to question the marriage between faith and power. His viral post about Charlie Kirk’s memorial service sparked a national conversation and revealed how uneasy many Christians feel about the blending of faith and political ideology.

The Malaise of Modern Christianity

There is a growing discomfort in the Church, a spiritual restlessness that Brian calls malaise. Many believers sense that something is wrong, even if they cannot explain it.

This episode gives language to that unease and helps people who feel out of place in modern Christianity find words for what they feel.

“You’re not crazy,” Brian says to those who feel out of step. “You saw this and thought, something’s not right. You chose to give your allegiance to Jesus alone. That should be celebrated, not condemned.”

That is the heartbeat of The Bad Roman: No King but Christ.

It is not a slogan but a return to the simplicity and power of early Christianity.

The Danger of Political Allegiance

One of the clearest insights from this conversation is that political parties often act like religions.

Each one has its own sacred texts, rituals, and values. For some, the Constitution becomes scripture. Voting becomes a sacrament. Party leaders become prophets.

When Christians give their ultimate loyalty to these political “religions,” they risk betraying the Kingdom of God.

“We cannot serve both God and Mammon,” Brian reminds us. “And sometimes, political power becomes the new Mammon.”

This is not theory. It is a call to honest reflection.
Have we allowed our politics to shape our faith more than the teachings of Jesus?

Reframing Faith and Politics

Throughout the episode, Brian and Craig invite listeners to rethink what it means to follow Jesus in a politically divided world.

1. Patriotism vs. Nationalism: It is good to appreciate your country. But when love of nation becomes ultimate loyalty, it becomes idolatry.

2. The Narrow Path: Following Jesus is not about finding middle ground. It is about choosing a completely different way. The Kingdom of God is not found on the right or the left. It is found on the narrow road of Christ.

3. Repentance as Revolution: The word metanoia means a complete change of mind. It is not about guilt but about turning back to Jesus as King.

4. The Power of Forgiveness: The difference between Erica Kirk’s forgiveness and the calls for revenge at the memorial shows what Kingdom love really looks like.

Practical Steps for Realignment

If your faith feels tangled up in politics, Brian offers a few ways to begin untangling it.

• Take a “politics fast.” Step away from political media and spend time in the Gospels instead.

• Simplify your faith. Start again with the basics, like the Sermon on the Mount.

• Check your allegiances. Ask yourself, “If loving others like Jesus meant losing my party loyalty, could I do it?”

• Speak prophetically. True patriotism tells the truth, even when it is uncomfortable.

What This Teaches Us About Faith and Politics

This conversation is a mirror for all of us who have ever mixed our love for Jesus with our loyalty to empire. It reminds us that our mission is not political victory but faithfulness to Christ.

In a world divided by tribalism, allegiance to Jesus is the most countercultural thing we can offer.

“On the other side of my political allegiance,” Brian says, “when I gave that up and fully gave myself to Jesus, it is just a better life.”

So where does your allegiance really lie?
Are you ready to walk away from the noise and return to the way of Jesus?

The Kingdom still calls.

No King but Christ.

🤝Connect with Brian Drinkwine:

• Email: brian@briandrinkwine.com

• Website: https://briandrinkwine.com/

• Linkedin

• X

• Facebook

• Instagram 

• Ministry at Breakthrough Church

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Discussing reactions to Charlie Kirk's death

• Brian Drinkwine joins to discuss varied reactions to Kirk's passing

• Read Brains post here

• Examining potential blurred lines due to nationalism

• Questioning if some churches have lost focus on "no king but Jesus"

(0:48) Brian Drinkwine's background

• Grew up in Nashville, Tennessee in independent fundamental Baptist tradition

• Transitioned to Southern Baptist church and found faith at youth camp

• Experience in youth ministry and church planting

(4:09) The viral post about Charlie Kirk

• Origin of Drinkwine's post addressing the tragedy

• Unexpected widespread response and impact

• Dealing with the flood of messages and notifications

(10:45) Addressing the church's response

• Preparing a message to bring the congregation together

• Importance of uniting around Jesus rather than political parties

• Transcribing and adapting the message for social media

(23:52) Reflections on the memorial service

• Conflicting emotions during Charlie Kirk's memorial

• Redeeming moments and problematic statements

• Struggle with nationalistic undertones in Christian spaces

(29:19) The danger of political allegiance

• Exploring the concept of allegiance in faith and politics

• Matthew Bates' book "Salvation by Allegiance Alone"

• Warning against getting sucked back into allegiance to empire

(35:32) Early church perspective on empire

• Examining how early Christians responded to empire

• Importance of studying church fathers like Tertullian

• Unpopularity of this view in mainstream churches

(41:34) The malaise in modern Christianity

• Growing sense of unease among followers of Jesus

• Need to return to Jesus as the solution

• Importance of simplifying faith and focusing on basic teachings

(54:46) Christian nationalism and its impact

• Difference between patriotism and nationalism

• Danger of giving full allegiance to political parties

• Need for a prophetic voice while appreciating one's country

(1:06:56) Tools for self-reflection

• Developing a breakdown of political parties and Jesus as rival religions

• Creating a 10-point checklist for assessing political engagement

• Importance of distinguishing between political identity and identity in Christ

(1:17:34) Conclusion and future discussions

• Potential follow-up episode on political parties and Jesus as religions

• Invitation for listeners to engage in dialogue

• Plans for online community discussions on these issues

---

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114. Who Would Jesus Bomb? Questioning War Through Song with Jordan Smart

About this Episode

Musician Jordan Smart shares his journey from growing up in a religious household in Ohio to becoming a touring musician. He discusses his early disillusionment with the church, his deep connection to music, and how punk rock influenced his worldview. The conversation centers around Jordan's song "Who Would Jesus Bomb?", which caught Craig's attention and led to this discussion. Jordan explains that while he isn't vocally anti-war, his frustrations with how religious traditions can be manipulated for propaganda inspired him to write the song.

Jordan reflects, "I was raised to believe Jesus loves everyone, but seeing how that message gets twisted to justify violence really pushed me to write this song." The episode delves into the troubling support for war among Christians, the manipulation by governments, and the importance of compassion and humanity. Jordan also highlights his project, Songs Not Bombs, which raises funds for Palestinian children.

Craig and Jordan discuss poignant lines from the song, such as, "Would Jesus bomb the atheist, the Muslim, or the Jew?" and "Would you still believe in Jesus if you found out he was brown?" These lines challenge listeners to reconsider their views on war, politics, and faith. This episode is a thought-provoking listen for anyone interested in these critical issues.

Connect with Jordan Smart:

• Jordan Smart Music on Instagram

• Songs Not Bombs on Bandcamp - All Proceeds Go to Palestine

• Songs Not Bombs on Instagram

Episode Timestamps:

Timestamps:

(00:45) Jordan's Background

• Jordan shares his upbringing in Ohio and his religious family background

• His journey with music, starting from a young age

• Background with Christianity and anarchy

(02:00) Music as a Form of Protest

• Discussion on Jordan's project "Songs Not Bombs"

• Efforts to raise funds for the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund (PCRF)

• The impact of music in processing and responding to world events

• Anti-War Sentiments

• Jordan's long-standing anti-war beliefs were influenced by punk rock

• Reflections on the current state of global conflicts

(7:27) The Power of Music

• Craig and Jordan discuss the emotional impact of music

• Music as a medium to express complex feelings and ideas

• The ability of music to resonate with diverse audiences

(9:40) Christianity and War

• The troubling support for the war among some Christians

• The disconnect between Jesus' teachings and modern Christian behavior

• Reflections on the pro-war stance of certain Christian groups

(11:59) Generational Perspectives

• The younger generation's growing disillusionment with the current system

• The potential for the younger generation to drive change

• The impact of social media and 24-hour news cycles on youth

• Political Disillusionment

• Failures of both major political parties in the U.S.

• The need for a new approach to governance and societal issues

• Personal experiences with political disillusionment

(16:45) Personal and Political Pushback to Jordan’s Song “Who Would Jesus Bomb?”

• Jordan shares experiences with pushback from friends and family

• The challenges of speaking out on controversial issues

• The importance of staying true to one's beliefs.

(20:51) Echo Chambers and Authenticity

• The importance of breaking out of echo chambers

• Staying authentic and true to one's message

• The impact of authenticity on audience engagement

(24:26) The Role of the Military

• Discussion on military recruitment and its implications

• The true threats to freedom and liberty

• Reflections on the U.S. military's global impact

(30:43) Compassion and Humanity

• Emphasizing the need for compassion towards all people

• The interconnected nature of various social justice issues

• The role of compassion in creating a better world.

34:59 Challenging Beliefs

• Jordan's song as a tool to challenge deeply held beliefs

• The importance of questioning and re-evaluating one's views

• The impact of music in provoking thought and discussion

(39:40) Personal Journeys

• Craig shares his journey from neoconservatism to Christian anarchism

• The influence of early church writings on his views

• The role of personal experiences in shaping beliefs

(43:17) The Influence of Social Media

• The role of social media in shaping public opinion

• The dangers of misinformation and propaganda

• The impact of social media on political and social views

(47:27) Interconnected Issues

• The interconnected nature of various social justice issues

• The importance of addressing these issues collectively

• The role of music and activism in highlighting these connections.

(52:19) Political Theater

• The manipulation of public opinion by the ultra-wealthy ruling class

• The need for unity among the oppressed.

• The impact of political theater on societal divisions

(57:52) Blonde Hair and Blue Eyes: Jesus and Race

• The significance of recognizing Jesus' true background

• The implications of Jesus' ethnicity for modern Christianity

• The importance of challenging racial stereotypes in religious contexts.

(1:00:13) Encouragement and Support

• Jordan shares the overwhelming support he has received for his music

• The importance of continuing to speak out on important issues

• Reflections on the impact of his song "Who Would Jesus Bomb?"

(1:03:21) Final Thoughts

• Craig encourages Jordan to keep leaning into his message

• The importance of making a difference through music and activism

• Reflections on the need for boldness and authenticity in advocacy.

---

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100. Christian Ethics and Stateless Societies: The Anarchist Approach of the Perry Family

In the 100th episode of the podcast, host Craig Harguess is joined by guests Sarah and Jeff Perry from Voluntaryism in Action for a captivating exploration into the confluence of Christian values and the philosophy of anarchy. This milestone episode delves into the nuances of Christian Anarchism and Voluntarism, examining the personal metamorphoses that steer individuals away from traditional political paradigms toward a life of voluntary statelessness underpinned by faith. 

Throughout the episode, Sarah and Jeff Perry share the hurdles encountered in seeking a like-minded community and the challenges a society deeply ingrained with state-oriented ideologies poses. They shed light on the essence of fellowship and kinship, even in the digital sphere, for those who perceive themselves as misfits in a world unprepared for such radical ideas. The conversation also touches on the difficulty of communicating complex ideas over social media and the importance of giving people grace and meeting them where they are, as they were once in a similar position. The group emphasizes that the people they may joke about now were once reflections of their past selves, highlighting the transformative journey that led them to their current ideological stance. 

Taking an unexpected detour, the discussion ventures into the rustic world of homesteading, contrasting the merits of duck and chicken eggs and unpacking the symbolism it holds for Christian anarchists. This segment uncovers the layers of self-reliance and philosophical maturation, accompanied by a narrative of Jeff’s military service and how he underwent a profound ideological shift towards anarchism. 

The episode critically addresses the contentious interpretation of Romans 13 from an anarchist perspective, scrutinizing the alignment—or lack thereof—between modern democratic establishments and the teachings of Jesus. The discourse celebrates the significance of genuine leadership as demonstrated by Jesus, compared to the forceful rule often exhibited by earthly authorities. 

The discussion also spotlights the impactful initiatives of Voluntaryism in Action, emphasizing the human connections nurtured through voluntary charity. This starkly contrasts the impersonal touch of institutionalized aid, underscoring the human and spiritual dimensions of giving.

 Listeners are treated to a blend of humor, social commentary, and personal anecdotes that exemplify the intertwining of Christianity's core tenets with the principles of voluntaryism. As the 100th episode of the podcast, this thought-provoking journey offers an inspiring vision of community, support, and voluntary action shaped by love, grace, understanding, and Christian values.

Connect with the Perrys:

Website

Podcast: Voluntary View on Spotify, iTunes, Youtube

Key Moments:

00:02 Exploring Christian Anarchism and Voluntaryism

• Introduction to the intersection of Christianity and statelessness.

• Personal journeys from conventional politics to stateless existence based on Christian values.

• Importance of community, even if primarily online.

01:11 The Reach of the Bad Roman

• Discussion on the international reach of the podcast.

• Personal reflections on discovering Christian Anarchy.

• Surprise at finding a community with similar beliefs.

09:08 Duck Eggs and Freshly Laid Eggs

• Discussion on homesteading, duck vs. chicken eggs.

• Nutritional content and taste comparison.

• Personal anecdotes about self-sufficiency and philosophical evolution.

15:22 - Military Transition to Anarchism & Non-Judgmental Dialogue

• A former military medical officer's ideological shift towards anarchism.

• Impact of literature and libertarian thought on worldview.

• Emphasis on non-judgmental engagement within the anarchist community.

23:13 Christian Anarchism and the Bad Project

• Craig's journey from neoconservatism to Christian anarchism.

• Misconceptions about Christian Anarchy clarified.

• Sharing personal revelations about faith and statelessness.

26:41 Facebook Thread Drama and Miscommunication

• Addressing miscommunication and drama in a Facebook thread.

• Emphasis on understanding different perspectives within anarchism.

30:05 Understanding Anarchy and Romans 13 (11 Minutes)

• Interpretation of Romans 13 in the context of Christian anarchy.

• Biblical examples of resistance to secular authorities.

• Addressing objections related to submission to governing authorities.

33:57 Not Voting and Complaining About Government

• Discussion on Craig's decision not to vote and its implications.

• The counterintuitive nature of the argument that non-voters cannot complain.

38:41 Voluntarism and Anarchy

• Explanation of voluntarism as a subset of anarchy.

• Voluntarism focuses on voluntary interactions without coercion.

41:22 Religion, Government, and Accountability

• Differences between authority figures and authoritarianism.

• Critique of representative democracy and accountability.

• Reflection on the role of law enforcement and early church teachings.

49:57 Christian Anarchism and Voluntaryism Action

• Exploration of how Voluntaryism in Action embodies Christian Anarchist principles.

• Discussion on the organization's initiatives and community impact.

• Tension between Christianity and statism in church settings.

• Discomfort with nationalistic practices in worship.

• Early Christian teachings versus modern interpretations post-Constantine.

55:42 Voluntaryism

• Origins and evolution of a charitable organization, Voluntaryism in Action.

• Challenges and misconceptions surrounding non-profit work.

• Importance of voluntary giving and the impact of government programs on charity.

57:07 Obtaining & Maintaining 501(c)3 Status

• The process and challenges of obtaining 501(c)3 status for the organization.

• Insights into maintaining non-profit status and its importance.

01:04:18 Voluntaryism in Action

• Celebration of the work and achievements of Voluntaryism in Action.

• Personal anecdotes that underscore the organization's ethos.

01:09:36 Discussion on Voluntaryism in Action

• Impactful work of Voluntaryism in Action aligned with Christian values.

• Encouragement for listener support through donations or involvement.

• Challenges of social media censorship.

01:11:39 Twitter Campaigns and Content Restrictions

• Addressing the impact of content restrictions on social media campaigns.

• The organization's approach to creating and sharing provocative content.

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99. God's Country or Jesus’s Kingdom? Navigating the Nexus of Nationalism and Faith in America

Could the intertwining of faith and state authority be warping the very soul of Christianity? Unlock the complexities of Christian nationalism as we sit down for a round table to dissect the idolatrous juxtaposition of faith and governance. This episode dissects the potential hazards of conflating faith with state authority and how this can distort genuine religious practice and the core tenets of Christianity itself.

Join your host, Craig Harguess, along with friends of the show Chris Polk, Cody Cook, Paul Parayil, and Darren Freidinger, who help us peel back the layers of entanglement to reveal the true call of Faith. Witness a bold examination of Christian nationalism's historical claims and current implications in the realm of politics and social justice. 

As echoes of January 6th reverberate through the national consciousness, we scrutinize its portrayal as a Christian nationalist insurrection and the subsequent impact on political landscapes. The breach, the media's narrative, and the political fallout are dissected with a critical lens, contrasting the motives behind these actions with the broader implications for American society. We confront the seductive pull of cultural identity and the struggle to prioritize important global issues over trivial cultural squabbles. 

Through this dialogue, we strive to foster a deeper understanding of how a desire for a 'Christian nation' impacts both the spiritual body of Christ and our broader societal fabric. With a laid-back yet critical approach, we discuss the importance of curiosity and questioning in religious communities, advocating for meaningful action against social injustices rather than getting lost in cultural distractions. The panel lays out a thought-provoking journey through the contradictions of Christian nationalism, inviting you to reflect, question, and expand your understanding of faith in the public square.

The digital age has transformed the battleground of ideas, and we explore the challenges of engaging in meaningful discourse on social media amid generational technology. As we draw to a close, we advocate for deeper awareness and action, urging listeners not to be sidetracked by fleeting controversies but to remain steadfast in the pursuit of no king but Christ. Tune in for a thought-provoking journey through the contradictions and complexities of Christian nationalism.

Connect with Cody Cook:

• Libertarian Christian Insitute

• Podcast - Cantus Firmus

• Book - What Belongs to Caesar

• Listen to episode 89, Navigating Revivals in Christianity with Cody Cook

Connect with Chris Polk:

• Blue Ribbon Podcast

• Blue Ribbon Logistics

• Tik Tok

• Listen to More Bad Roman Episodes with Chris Polk:

  • Lessons from the Trucking Industry with Chris Polk, EP 77

  • Your Rights with Chris Polk & Jacob Daniel, EP 38

  • Home School: 2021 Year-End Round Table, EP 47

Connect with Paul Parayil:

• Paul Varkey Parayil on Facebook

Key Moments:

01:20 Christian Nationalism and Its Contradictions

• Christianity Today Article: What Is Christian Nationalism?

• Critiqued for distorting religious practice and undermining Christian principles.

• Enforcement of state authority is a key concern.

05:11 Christian Nationalism and the New Covenant

• Inconsistencies with Jesus' teachings are highlighted.

• Cherry-picking from the Old Testament discussed with guest Cody Cook.

15:20 Christian Nationalism and State Role

• Examination of Christian nationalism and its contrast with a kingdom culture mindset.

• Emphasis on the spiritual body of Christ over earthly rulers.

27:52 The Impact of Christian Nationalism

• Growth of the church during persecution discussed.

• Detachment from state affairs, detrimental effects, and pitfalls of striving for a "Christian nation."

33:13 January 6th and Christian Nationalism Discussion

• Discussion on the Capitol breach on January 6th.

• Examination of Christian nationalism, media portrayal, politicians' response, and intentions vs. implications of actions.

43:54 Exploring Christian Nationalism in Politics

• Aftermath of January 6th discussed.

• Accusations of Christian nationalism, manipulation by agencies, spectrum of ideologies, and complex relationship between American and Christian identities.

58:49 Challenges of Social Media Discourse

• Christian nationalism debates on social media.

• Generational gap in technology use, lack of curiosity in education and religion, and strategy for online discourse.

01:08:32 Christian Nationalism and Cultural Identity

• American democracy's defense of Anglo-Protestant culture discussed.

• Exclusion of Catholics and Orthodox believers, trivial cultural controversies distracting from pressing social injustices.

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88. Journeys of Faith: Unpacking Eschatology with Micah and John of City Square Podcast

About this Episode

Have you ever questioned your beliefs about the end times? Have you ever wondered about the different strands of eschatological thought and how they emerged? Strap in for a fascinating discussion with John and Micah, hosts of the City Square Podcast on eschatology. Listen in as we get into the heart of eschatology, a topic we've not extensively covered on the Bad Roman Podcast. It's an enlightening conversation filled with personal experiences, exciting insights, and a friendly rivalry over football.

Ready to expand your horizons? We explore different eschatological views, how popular culture influences these perspectives(The Left Behind Series), and the history of alternative beliefs and teachings. Hear about the three main views of eschatology (Amill, Pre-Mill, and Post-Mill), the interpretations of Christ's return, and the role of critical thinking and discernment in religious belief. We deconstruct the emergence of dispensationalism, where it came from, and its wide acceptance today.

But that’s not all! We’re pulling back the curtain on the City Square Podcast, revealing its conception, production, and mission. Hear how everyday people share stories of their faith and labor, contributing to the vibrant tapestry of human experience. We'll also discuss the bearing of eschatology on one's life and the potential it holds to shape our view of the world. With John and Micah as our guides, we journey through a landscape of belief, religion, and personal perspectives in this enlightening and entertaining episode.

Connect with our guests Micah and John:

Facebook

Instagram

Youtube

Spotify

Episode Timestamps:

01:10 - Who is Micah? 

• Husband, father, grew up Baptist before moving into Evenglicail philosophies 

• studied church father and found his way into LCMS (Lutheran Church Mission Synod)

02:56 - Who is John?

• Did not grow up in the Church

• God saved him in college

• He found his way into reform theology and planted a church in rural TX before moving to San Antonio

• Web Designer

04:27 West Texas & The Dallas Cowboys 

• Sports Rivalries

• Steve Young signed ball

9:36 Eschatology

• City Square Round Table

• The Rapture and Southern Baptist Churches view on it

• Preacher Ebb

• Dispensationalist Eschatology

12:33 John’s View of the Rapture and Eschatology

• Evangelical tradition’s relationship to dispensationalist Eschatology

• Left Behind Series

• Amillennialism Eschatology

• Traditional early Church view

16:14 Micah’s View and What is Amill?

• Amill

• Not a future literal thousand years, but Christ is reigning now with saints and will at some point return

• Post-mill

• Christ returns after minimum, but the world system gets progressively better until his return

• Pre-mill

• Christ returns before the millennium

• Dispensationalist 

• 18th century 19th century America

• Splits Christ's return into two parts

19:40 The Fear of Rapture as a Kid and where that gets directed 

• Not fear of self not being saved but those who do not believe

• Fear-based theology

• United Pentecostal

22:44 Why should we care about these different views as Christians?

• Dispensationalist in 2020

• “Everything was the anti-Christ”

• Most people don’t know there are multiple perspectives or the origins of Dispensationalism

• Dangers of going “too far”

• Eschatology as a barrier to a deeper faith

27:00 Israel’s Standing in Amill and Post-mill vs. Dispensationalism

• Book of Revelation and Daniel are important for Dispensationalism

• Symbolism vs. literalism 

• Multi Genere nature of the bible

• Eschatology is essential in informing how you shape your fundamental worldview

31:47 City Square Podcast and Covid-19

• Origin of name and logo

• Importance of talking to real people about who they are, what they do, and their faith

• Power of Stories

• Today and in the bible

• Authenticity

• Fandoms

• Covid and fake sports fans

45:20 Differences Between Lutheran and Reformed Theology

• John and Micah discuss Baptism

• Martin Luther

• Lord's Supper

• Christology

• Ecclesiology

• global church's view of Jesus' presence

53:54 How to connect with City Square and Micah and John

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83. The Cult of Statism with Larken Rose

About this Episode

Prominent anarchist activist and author Larken Rose joins Craig for a lively discussion on deprogramming people from the cult of statism. People are mostly inherently good at heart but have been indoctrinated from a young age to believe that government is a legitimate authority. Larken Rose makes a clear case for the immorality of government. Larken and Craig discuss how to engage statists using methods designed to combat their cognitive biases and awaken their inner anarchist.

Government preys on people's fears to keep them voting for corrupt politicians' forcible domination of their neighbors. To keep the rules, the ruling class (politicians) have enforcers (police) empowered to engage in acts of violence that most voters would bulk at committing against another human beings. Thus, when Christians vote, they are unwittingly breaking Jesus' golden rule and doing to others the exact opposite of what they want to have done to themselves. 

Christians should be the most suspicious of the state as it is a competing religious entity with all the rituals, fancy buildings and pomp. But unfortunately, some Christians strongly believe in the state and its illegitimate rulers even more than they believe in Jesus. These Christians need to be gently shown the contradictions in their beliefs and that when they advocate for a human ruler, they advocate for the subjugation of themselves and their neighbors. True followers of Jesus should see that Christianity and the cult of statism oppose each other, but Christianity and anarchy are not mutually exclusive.

Larken Rose:

The Most Dangerous Superstition 

YouTube

Candles in the Dark

Facebook

Episode Timestamps:

4:17 – About Larken Rose:

• Taught to doubt and debate ideas from a young age

• Began trying to decide what a legitimate or moral government looks like

• Accidentally fell off the political spectrum

• Realized that 'legitimate government' is an oxymoron

• Government has no special power to rob or legislate

• Assumes people have consciences and can distinguish right from wrong

• That's why he's an anarchist

•  Doesn't care what people say they believe about religion

• How they treat other people matters

• Do they abide by the non-aggression principle?

• If the government disappeared suddenly, Larken would prefer to be around Christian Statists than some atheist anarchists

• They are nicer people without the political monstrosity

• The quality of people matters most

16:09 – What currently ails the world?

• People have been taught to believe that when evil is committed by government authorities, it is no longer evil

• Individuals are tricked into cheering for evil

• Even Hitler, Stalin and Mao

• They fall for the false god

• Because their fears are played on

• Christians gloss over Matthew 20:25-28

• David Bently Hart New Testament Translation

24:33 – How to awaken someone else's inner anarchist

• People know the corruption of government but try not to know at the same time

• Larken Rose asks others to be personal, literal and specific while asking questions about why they need the government

• If they respond, "protect the innocent"

• Larken asks, "If I found a more efficient way to protect the innocent and refuse to pay for police. What should happen to me?"

• They get uncomfortable as Larken asks them to be specific about what should happen.

• They don't want to blurt out the violence of government

• No arguing is required

• Because if they advocate for a government they are advocating violence against peaceful citizens

• Wanting to "help the poor" is no longer fluffy-sounding goodness

• Should only the state have all the guns?

• Candles in the Dark

• No one wants to admit the violence they condone

• They don't dare look at the conflicts in their beliefs

• We need to lead them to the cognitive dissonance

41:36 – Don't do unto others what you don't want them to do unto you 

• Literally every voter does exactly what they don't want the other side to do to them

• Democracy is the best trick tyrants ever came up with

• It makes people mad at each other

• It makes people consent and vote for evil

• Politicians are all feasting together and laughing at your fears

• Did you just enable evil?

• The other bad guy option is irrelevant

• You cheer for your own subjugation

• You victimize everybody when you vote

• Jesus advocated serving others not lording it over them

• The Soviet Union, China and North Korea are all Constitutional Republics and have their own Bill of Rights

• It's wrong to ask someone else to commit evil for you

• Everyone who votes is a hypocrite without knowing it

• They vote for others to do things they know would be wrong if they did it themselves

• They are not going to go door-to-door to rob people to give to the poor

54:39 – Statism is a religion

• It has rituals, ceremonies, grandiose halls, pomp and tradition

• Voting is just choosing your new god

• The pieces of paper are religious texts

• Statism: The Most Dangerous Religion

• Government authority is not a real thing

• Pledging allegiance in churches doesn't happen in other nations

• Vaccines in churches

• It's frustrating to try to talk people out of their programming

• Need to use cult deprogramming tactics

• Belief in government is a cult

• They don't realize they hold a faith

• If people were living in a free society and someone came along and suggested we give them the power to forcibly rob and dominate we would say, 'no'

• But every election comes down to, 'give me power over you and everyone you know'

• People become violent if you dare bash the pledge of allegiance or trample on the flag

• Belief in government is a faith; not practical or logical

• People are trained to pledge loyalty to the authoritarian rulers of the US

• People are horrified if you admit to being unpatriotic

• Some Christians will become more upset when they hear, "I don't believe in government"
  then when they hear, "I don't believe in God"

• Government is what they really believe in

• Sometimes you need to offend people to shake them out of their indoctrination

1:08:28 – Government: The largest gang

• Without government, there would still be bad actors, but they would not be able to marshal the firepower that governments have

• People feel morally obliged to give them their extortion fees 

• All of the governmental power comes from the people they duped

• Taxpayers and enforcers

• Congressmen will not come to try to take your money personally

• They use it to make nuclear warheads and tanks

• Corporations cannot make us buy their products; if they tried, people would wipe them out

• No gang can enslave the population of the US

• Larken Rose is optimistic

• If people start ignoring the government and human rulers, the government is done

• The evil people are way outnumbered by good

• Rulers are just people

1:18:07 - Religion and anarchism are not mutually exclusive

• People can use gods to justify violence against others or as a standard to live by

• Government can never be legitimate, but belief in god is not automatically bad

• Not automatically authoritarian

• Religion has been used in the past to create authoritarian rulers too

• If society's standard is not initiating violence against others, that will allow peaceful co-existence

• It allows friendly discussions on all sorts of topics

• Christians have a reason to identify as anarchists: Jesus Christ

• Christian, who do you pay tribute to? Whom do you ask to save you from your enemies? If its people in Washington, you need to consider who your god is

---

Related Episodes

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74. Can We Love More Than We Hate with Hodey Johns

About this Episode

This week Craig is joined by Hodey Johns, co-host of the Enemy of My Enemy podcast from the We Are Libertarians Network. They discuss focussing on love that looks like how God loves us, contrasting these with social media discussions that look more like hate. They talk about political statements that assume God hates those on the wrong end of our favorite policies. However, Christians shouldn't even be on the political spectrum. Can the love of Jesus be made visible when we fight online over our political positioning?

The Israelites received laws from the very hand of God, but they missed His heart for humanity to follow their consciences in loving their neighbors. Not even Jewish regulations could justify people in the sight of God because love is the fulfillment of the law. Jesus proved this when he righteously ignored the Levitical laws, and the Pharisees proved that one could follow the rules perfectly and still be unrighteous.

Unfortunately, we haven't learned this; hate may be more natural to Christians than love. We fail to worship God according to His desires when we fail to love those around us. As Christians, rather than looking for the boundaries we should not step on and assume that the rest of our conduct is loving, we need to seek the narrow path and aggressively love everyone, including our enemies. After all, this is how Christ first loved us.

Hodey Johns:

·       Facebook

·       Instagram

·       Twitter

Episode Timestamps:

1:56 – Introduction to Hodey Johns

·       Loves debates

·       Theologian

·       Writes about video games

·       Parents weren't very interested in their own Christian faith

o   Hodey was self-taught in Christianity and the Bible from a young age

·       Became a Mormon for 15 years

·       Lived all over the states

o   Noticed that Christian culture differs from place to place

6:19 – Christians on Social Media

·       Do more Christians need to put themselves out there on social media?

·       People don't change their minds in an instant or one conversation

o   They contemplate new ideas for a while

o   Like planting a new tree, waiting and tasting its fruit

·       We can't let others do the theological thinking for us

o   Not even religious folks

o   Jesus called the Pharisees a brood of vipers

·       No Christian has everything figured out

o   Christianity is a process

o   But we don't need to worry because we know who God is

16:14 – Love one another and love your enemy

·       Christians have a tough time balancing being in the world but not of the world

·       Thankfully, it's not all over once you sin

·       When you sin and recover, you get better

·       Christians wield hate and fear as a conversion method

o   We have all experienced hate

o   As Christians, we know that hate is evil

·       Love is the highest commandment

o   Jesus loved us and died for us

o   Would we give up our lives for those we are fighting with on social media

·       Love is not just the absence of hate

·       We ought to be aggressively loving

o   Christianity is a narrow path

·       Christianity should not be us saying, "God opposes [insert pet peeve here]"

·       There is real hate from both left- and right-wing Christians

·       Christians should not be on a political spectrum

·       Biden's student loan debt write-offs are not forgiveness

·       The left likes to think it has a monopoly on love

·       Jesus only spoke in parables to the public

o   Stories of love and goodness

o   We should be using stories too and asking, "who is the loving neighbour?"

·       Moral choices are required for good deeds to be produced

·       Paying taxes is not a virtue

33:09 – How ethical is the law?

·       Immigrants from Mexico who come to better their lives are human beings too

o   They cross an imaginary line to come here

o   The law of the land is in opposition to God's law

o   They only come to eat and feed their families

o   Christians don't seem to understand this

o   They are still image bearers of God

·       Jewish law was superior to today's laws

o   They still condemned people

o   They still allowed for the killing of Jesus Christ

·       The Bible can be summarised as people trying to justify themselves by the law

o   It was to show the way to being led by the Holy Spirit

o   It was to give the Israelites time to escape the slave mentality of Egypt

·       Where is your faith?

o   Do politicians protect you and your nation?

o   It should be in Jesus Christ

o   Why are Christians scared of immigrants?

o   In Jesus' death and resurrection Christianity grew

·       Christianity's hey-day was when Christians were stateless

·       The Israelites' laws changed from chapter to chapter of Leviticus

o   The law was being revised constantly

§  God was stable; His people were not

o   They couldn't enter the promised land until they realised the law could not save them

·       Even the wandering Israelites went astray when they tried to turn their relationship with God into a law-based system

40:19 – We can't legislate love.

·       The complex legal system that we have cannot be used to promote Christian values

o   The Israelites walked together with God and couldn't make the law work

·       Laws are written on paper, but let's try to figure out what is right

·       The will of God is to love one another

o   Love is the command

o   We worship someone else when we fail to love

·       When Christians think they are God, they become hateful

·       Are you really a Christian if you are not moving towards love?

·       Are we being motivated by the love of Christ?

45:57 – Church is unappealing when we don't have love

·       Church attendance has dropped off since 2013

·       There are reasons why people don't go to church

o   Hate-filled sermons

o   Hate-filled conversations with people after church

·       Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax-collectors

o   We should also be showing them the love of Christ

·       Jesus' measure of how to get into heaven was to forgive and not judge others

o   That is mentioned more often than other methods usually suggested

·       Homosexuality is not a sin

·       Whosoever is angry with his brother is at risk of being judged

·        Jesus said himself that if you call someone gay, you are in danger of being judged

·       Wanting to punish people crossing a border is wrong

·       Jesus ignored the law and healed on the Sabbath

o   This is why Hodey trashes the law

o   Jesus never denied breaking the Sabbath

·       The scriptures are stories of people working out morality in a complex world

·       The transformation of your heart is all that matters

·       You can break the law and be right

·       You can follow the Levitical law and be wrong

o   The Pharisees proved it

·       Jesus ignored the laws, so we can ignore immoral laws also

1:05:47 – Smoked meats

·       During covid, Hodey picked up a smoking meats hobby

·       Smoking meat makes Hodey a better person

o   It's a philosophical journey

o   The community is full of nice people

·       Well-cooked brisket is a bad piece of meat turned good through cooking

·       Mesquite trees make the best-smoked meats

---

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69. From angry An-Cap to peaceful Christian with John Krueger

About this Episode

Craig is joined by John Krueger for a conversation about his journey from being an angry Anarcho-Capitalist to a peaceful Anarcho-Christian. Unjust police killings, SWAT raids gone wrong and harsh lockdowns made John angry. He was eager to learn how to use a gun and imagined himself needing to protect his family from police violence. In the midst of this, the Holy Spirit met John and showed him a peaceful option.

Libertarian philosophy is peaceful, but we need Jesus and His word to have the whole picture. Craig and John advocate for Christian pacifism and examine what was going on in their hearts at the points when they both contemplated joining the military. Craig and John discuss the libertarian and Christian anarchist positions on the decriminalization of drugs, the real needs of terrorists, the US at war, gun control, and other contentious current issues.

The state is coercion and violence. Laws are enforced with fines that are begrudgingly paid to avoid the threat of violence or time spent in a cage. You cannot make people peaceful like this, using the state’s methods. But rather, we need to be those who allow the Holy Spirit to work in us to change the hearts and minds of those surrounding us; that is how social change works in the Kingdom. Let’s listen to Jesus and do things His way, forsaking violence and anger. Let’s work towards peace.

Connect with John Krueger on

• Practical Christology

• TikTok

Episode Timestamps:

1:27 – Who is John Krueger?

• From Columbus, Ohio

  • Grew up attending church

• 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 stood out

  • Paul writes about grace

• Journey to anarchism

  • Read Blue Like Jazz

    • Jesus was not a republican or a conservative

    • Became politically independent

  • Eventually considered voting

    • Began researching libertarianism

      • Clicked with his understanding of the Grace of God

  • Took a few more years to become an anarcho-capitalist

8:58 – Libertarians, drugs, and terrorists

• It’s easy to understand decriminalizing marijuana 

• Harder to understand decriminalizing heroin use

  • People shouldn’t be locked in a cage for it

  • People should be free to make their own choices

    • Provided they aren’t hurting others

• Osama Bin Laden needed Jesus

  • Not bombs

  • We can’t bomb people into peace

    • If we bomb all sinners, there will be no one left

• John and Craig let go of the war stuff last

  • The history of the Middle East is important

  • The US is still at war

    • More people are mad at the US for continuously bombing them

• Jesus said in His Kingdom:

  • You rule by washing feet

    • Only pagans lord it over their subjects

  • But instead, our “Christian Nation” goes to war

    • To spread democracy

• We don’t need the government for roads

• We don’t need police

• Losing friends because of speaking out about:

  • Getting troops home

  • Veteran suicides

  • Broken men and families

  • Sending the poor to fight a rich man’s war

20:11 – Craig and John considered joining the military

• Craig wanted to kill people out of anger after 911

  • Application rejected

    • 4 pounds over the weight limit

• John wanted to join the military because he felt powerless

  • Wanted to be great in battle - like David

  • Experienced God’s compassion for those killed on both sides

• Christians still justify war and killing

  • Jesus said when you have seen me, you have seen the Father

  • There is nothing about Jesus’ life that says you can kill in war

• Pacifism is the way for Christians

  • Craig still gets a hard time from Christians for his pacifist stance

  • The early church was 100% pacifist

    • Even to their own deaths

  • Jesus healed the Roman soldier and admonished Peter

    • When Jesus disarmed Peter, he disarmed every Christian

26:24 – Libertarians and Gun Control

• After shootings those on the left talk about taking away guns

• But guns will be taken away by force

  • Giving more power to the state

• Need to study history

• We don’t advocate for gun control

  • It’s enforced by violence

  • We should bear God’s peace instead

• The left sees calls to reduce state size as calls to let people starve

• John does not own guns, 

  • Only advocates for less government action

• We don’t use the state for any reason

• The same people who take guns away are those who shoot unarmed black men

• Fines are enforced through the threat of violence

• The ‘hero’ who ended the life of a would-be shooter still ended a life

• Jesus would not be training churches to enact violence

• We are here to bring the gospel to people

37:10 – From angry An-Cap to peaceful Christian Anarchist

• When John was an An-Cap he was angry at the state

  • Police killings made him angry

  • Made him want to get into guns

• Angry at government shutdowns because of shutdowns

• Holy Spirit showed him it would be better to defy the government in peaceful ways

  • Sneakily helping people

  • Blessing those who curse

  • Not needing to worry about what to say in front of judges

• Libertarians are never happy with the government

  • No matter who is in power they are stuffing everything up

  • Anger is not the fruit of the spirit

• Romans 11-14 need to be read together

  • Our heart position should be peaceful

• Libertarians need Jesus to have the full picture

42:48 – Romans 13 and libertarianism

• “Submit” and “obey” are not the same

  • When Christians get it wrong: 

    • They end up supporting government atrocities

    • Lives will be ruined

    • The state becomes an idol

• The early church withheld communion from people who worked for the state

  • Unless people were already soldiers

    • And had sworn off killing or oppressing people

    • None wore their weapons

    • All were to serve

• Getting Christians into power will not help

  • It is no longer Christianity

• The power is the wrong power

  • The Holy Spirit is the only power we need

  • Political power is force

  • Christians do not need to take the ”Seven Mountains” of power

  • These do not sound like Jesus

• Polycarp would not denounce Jesus

  • In the face of his own death

  • King Jesus has never done me any harm

• Everything that the state does harms somebody in some fashion

  • If they are helping you, they are harming someone else

  • The state is not a protector

• Jesus Christ is the only King

  • He wants the best for us

54:12 – How should we pray for government?

• We should pray for government and leaders

  • Craig prays for the state to end

  • The current chaos is caused by the state

  • We need to follow Jesus and walk away

  • John prays for leadership to know the gospel

    • Not the American folklore

    • But the true gospel

• Craig will take the words of the early church fathers over pastors

  • When modern pastors disagree with the early church

  • They still screwed things up

  • They aren’t Jesus

  • They were closer in time to Jesus

  • We need to get back to that

    • What we are doing now as the church is not working

• The Reformers had a blind spot when it came to the church

  • They killed people

• The Anabaptists became the Mennonites and Amish

  • They were peaceful

• Catholics are going back to mysticism

  • The church fathers and grace teachings

1:02:54 – Let’s bring it back to Jesus

• Listen to Jesus

  • Love your neighbor

  • Love your enemy

  • Love God

• It’s impossible to follow His teachings

  • But we should try:

    • Working towards good

    • Not working toward violence

    • Not working towards anger or hate

    • Working towards peace

---

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67. What do gambling and voting have in common? with Paul Varkey

About this Episode

Craig is joined by Paul Parayil for his first-ever podcast appearance. Through his prolific and provocative writings, Paul advocates for liberty, truth, honesty, and the Kingdom of God. His blog and Facebook posts have garnered quite a following. In this episode, they discuss Paul's article, "Do you believe Gambling is a vice? I don't think you do". In the article, Paul grabs the attention of the evangelical right audience and shows how Christians engage in high-stakes gambling on something worse than cards. Fear produces voting, but just like casino gambling, the house (or the state) always wins.

When the church condones the state's violence, it fails to align with people's consciences, becoming a stumbling block. However, the church will find itself more attractive when Christians promote Jesus's basic teachings of self-governance and doing no harm. We use the term Christian Anarchist because a core component of Christianity has been lost. Instead, that which should be an obvious and natural occurrence in the church must be emphasized. Anarchy is implied, and the entire gospel message is summed up in one sentence: No King but Christ. 

Since the beginning of the church, we have had one King. Jesus never sought political office! It is morally inconsistent of us to believe we have the right to coerce our neighbors with political power gained through participation in state activities, be they politics or voting. We are more consistent with Jesus's actions when we serve from the fringes of society with love and charity. The beginning of the healing of this world is through peacefully walking away from the gamble that is voting.

Paul's social media: 

• FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/paul.varkey , 

• Hive blog

Episode Timestamps:

1:15 Introduce Paul

• Enjoys writing 

  • Initially, to clarify his own thoughts

  • Found others enjoy thinking outside the box and reading his writings

• Often interacting in various Christian Anarchist circles

• Family originally from India 

  • A family of practicing Christians 

  • When Paul was three, his parents immigrated to the Middle East (Saudi Arabia) and lived there until he graduated from high school

  • Christmas holidays were spent visiting family in India

• Education

  • Graduated high school in Saudi Arabia

  • Went back to India for college

  • Moved to the US as a graduate student in 2004

  • Moved to California to work as a software engineer in 2011

  • Been working in Tech since then

5:45 How did Paul come to Christian anarchy?

• Brought up as Christians in Saudi Arabia.

• Moved to Chicago at 21 years old

  • Began thinking about politics

  • Knew he was pro-life because it's a matter that evangelicals care about

  • Became a republican quickly

• Knew that his support for GOP was tribalism  

• Heard of Ron Paul and what he had to say about:

  • The Fed

  • The Military-Industrial Complex, https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/military-industrial-complex 

  • Regulatory capture of the big corporations

• Provoked into considering the logical inconsistency of his own beliefs 

  • Began looking into political libertarianism

  • Kicked and screamed for a few years into anarchy 

• Was not aware of Christian anarchism 

  • A closet Christian Anarchist 

  • No one to fellowship with

  • Craig also had a similar experience until he came across the Anarcho Christian Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/645893438920507 

10:15 What is Christian Anarchism?

• The early church were anarchists 

  • Including Jesus 

• No title; the word didn't exist

  • But they practiced it

  • It was an obvious part of being a Christian

    • Do you tell people that you are a "virgin birthist"? 

    • There's no need to specify because most Christians believe in it

    • So it was with Christian anarchy in the early church 

  • A core message has been lost of how the kingdom of God works with nations here

• We've lost an essential message of the gospel, so we must use the label to emphasize it

• It's okay to disagree with others

  • Secular anarchists

  • Or even Paul of Tarsus

• It's more important to follow Jesus than anarchy

15:35 No King But Christ 

• Essentially communicates the whole gospel message 

  • While implying anarchy

• How are secular anarchists preaching better moral truths than the church? 

• Anarcho Christian Facebook group:

  • Don't all agree on Christian doctrines

  • They at least agree on the anarchist outlook

• More people seem to be latching onto anarchy

  • Self-rule

  • Do no harm

  • Don't take my things

  • Follow the basic teachings of Christ

• Voluntaryism doesn't trigger Christian minds to think of chaos.

• In the right-leaning "Christian" culture, there is an identification of patriotism and nationalism as the proper practicing of faith

20:30 Paul pokes the bear to make people think.

• The biggest tragedies of the church: 

  • We lost the concept of No King But Christ 

  • Colluding with the state

  • In both the Eastern Christian and Western church circles

  • We have compromised our values

22:46 Read Paul’s Article: "Do you believe Gambling is a vice? I don't think you do."

• Grabbing the attention of the evangelical right

  • It's addressed to people who think gambling is a vice or sin

• There is a loser in gambling

  • There is also a winner; it's always the house

• In the casino, most of the participants frequently lose

  • Some participants win big, keeping people hooked

  • The only one who wins is the house.

• Gambling is a vice because you produce no real wealth, 

  • One of us is poorer based on luck

  • There is nothing godly about this

• There is something far worse than gambling 

  • Christians engage in it regularly 

  • This form of gambling has a house, and the house always wins.

• When you vote, you wager your own life and liberties and securities.

  • Cannot recover lost freedoms back from the state through voting

  • You legitimize the beast through voting

29:05 What is voting?

• The state says, "Come along. All of you will lose some liberties, but some of you will have the chance to have less of your liberties taken."

• Fear takes over when people vote

• There are more than two people to choose from

31: 48 What is the state?

• Takes people's liberties

• Has never once shrunk

  • States grow or collapse.

• Taking the chance and succumbing to fear keeps the house growing

  • Yet people vote for candidates they don't like

• The idea of your "civic duties" being to vote is ridiculous

• "Go vote" is a religious mantra

• It doesn't matter to the elites who wins

  • The aura of the legitimacy of the beast improves when people show up to vote

  • Republicans are Democrats 2.0

  • Don't put others in power over your neighbours

36:00 God alone gives liberty 

• Jesus sets us free, not the US

  • There may be some good outcomes from voting

    • God makes good come from evil

• Paul's moral analysis of voting is the reason he doesn't

  • I don't have the right to dominate my neighbour

    • No coercing them to behave the way I want

    • Unlikely to bring more liberty

    • It's still a gamble

• Anarchists joining libertarian parties promote the state

39.00 Why don't Christians just walk away?

• One solution to the problems of government

  • Peacefully walk away

  • Christians should know this and opt out

• The empire is falling and we already have a King

  • Power will corrupt

  • You will lose while growing the state

• If someone is addicted to any addictive substance, they cannot go cold turkey

  • Voting gives a dopamine hit

  • If you feel the need to vote, at least vote for a third party

  • Take other political actions 

• The Libertarian parties will never take over the state

  • Their message is good

• Paul does more good outside of political processes 

  • Being morally consistent with his beliefs

• If anyone was going to change the US system, it would have been Ron Paul

  • You cannot change the mafia from the inside 

  • The point of the mafia is to be the mafia

  • Ron Paul changed awakened people https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/ron-paul-5118.php 

• Voting is a risk; why not simply obey Jesus Christ?

• When Satan tempted Jesus with authority, He didn't rebuke Satan, telling him that the authority was not his to give. Instead, He said, "No, I'm good." https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%204%3A1-11&version=NIV 

• Likewise, Christians should say, "No, I'm good." 

  • rather than seek power

  • Seek Jesus as our King

• The early church writings show:

  • They had no interest in the Roman Empire 

  • Tertullian called the affairs of the state foreign https://quotepark.com/authors/tertullian/quotes-about-the-world/

  • The kingdom of God is a literal Kingdom

  • Their King did not use a sword against Caesar and Pilot 

  • They expanded the kingdom through love, charity, and service

  • From outside the system

• Christians can enrich anarchism with the teachings of Christ

---

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68. Tyrants be Gone with Duncan Palmer

About this Episode

The Kingdom of God is at hand! Duncan Palmer joins Craig for a discussion of what the Good News entails and a key point that Christians are missing today: The Kingdom of God is here and now. Poor Bible translations go all the way back to Augustine, leading God’s people into confusion about their purpose. For example, ‘ecclesia’ is often rendered ‘church’ in modern translations, whereas a better translation refers to a gathering or assembly of people who managed the local city. The only God-ordained governance structure is the ecclesia, which happens when the church willingly submits to servant leadership and God’s laws alone. 

Craig and Duncan discuss the historical points where the church went wrong, then turn to Duncan’s article “Tyrants be Gone: Say Hello to the New Boss”. There are no good guys in the fiefdoms of Satan; even your favorite candidate is nothing more than a tinpot tyrant playing with authority that does not belong to him. No human being is given authority to rule over another. Therefore, instead of participating in politics, Christians are to opt out, declare independence, and make worldly governments obsolete. When we do, we will usher in the Kingdom of God. We need to be creating things of value helping and encouraging each other, and trading amongst ourselves. Jesus invites us to live freely in this voluntary society. He welcomes us into the Kingdom of God! This is the missing part of the Good News!

Duncan’s article

Duncan’s Hive Blog Articles

Episode Timestamps:

2:25 – Introduce Duncan’s article

• Well shared in the discussion group

• Written so that people can get a glimpse of what the good news really is

3:33 – Who is Duncan Palmer?

• Grew up in America in the 50s and 60s

  • Heard that America was the freest country in the world

  • Republican family background

• Supported Ron Paul when he ran for office

• In the 90s, Duncan realised he was being extorted for tax money

  • Not as free as he thought

  • Taxation is a fraudulent system

• Learned from Larken Rose

  • Book: The Most Dangerous Superstition

  • Podcast: Outside the Cage

  • Not a believer but has a lot to say to Christians about neighbourly love and oppression

7: 11 – The importance of language

• Duncan uses the label anarchist

• Bad Bible translations are of the devil

• The Bible is misquoted, mistranslated, and misread

• Get back to the basic teachings of Christ

• Duncan’s definition of anarchist:

  • No human rulers  

  • God is the only legitimate ruler

  • He is a benevolent ruler

  • A Christ-archist or Thearchist

• The enemy has taken the term ‘anarchist’ and perverted its definition

  • It doesn’t mean bomb throwing radicals out to destroy everything

  • Words ought to be our servants, not the other way around

• Voluntaryist

  • The Kingdom of God is based on voluntary interactions

    • Radically different from the kingdoms of the world

  • The ‘kings’ of this world have no legitimate authority

• The early church lived in a voluntary society

  • Anarchism and Christianity should be synonymous 

14:16 – The church is in bed with the state

• Learning the history of the church

• Craig has become fascinated by church history

  • Prior to Constantine

  • This is how the church should behave today too

  • They had their own disagreements

  • Universally recognized Jesus as King

  • Tertullian believed in Eternal Conscious Torment

  • Tertullian was vocal about the state

  • Some of the early church writers were taught directly by the apostles

    • Polycarp

    • The church has gone in the opposite direction of these writings

• Ecclesia – The gathering of people who managed the local city

• Duncan is reading through the New Testament in Greek

  • Trying to get the whole picture

  • Major points:

    • Ecclesia – church is a poor translation

    • Gathering, assembly or congregation might be better options

    • The church should guide the local population rather than the worldly institutions

• David Bently Hart

  • New Greek New Testament Translation of the Bible

  • Augustine translated the Bible from Latin not Greek

  • There are differences that change the meaning of the text

  • Mistranslations are being taught in the church

• 1 Corinthians 1:26 – Not too many bright believers verse

• The Curmudgeons Bible Library

  • Complaints about poor Bible translations

22:20 – How Duncan became a Christian Anarchist

• The state lies to everyone and imposing an illegal income tax

• The Law – Frederic Bastiat

  • Recommended reading

  • Very thin

  • Made Duncan realise that the only law that we should respect is God’s law

    • More than 400 instances of the word ‘law’ in the Bible maybe only a dozen of them reference human made laws.

    • Man-made laws are always spoken of with disdain

    • Romans 13:1 refers to God’s law not human mandates

• Christians are afraid of the other team, so they resort to using the state

26:52 - The church has gone wrong at a few historical points:

• Constantine co-opted the church

  • The church is to replace and obviate the rule of Satan on earth

•  Replacing the commandments of God with the traditions of men

  • During the Reformation

    • The Reformation did not go far enough

    • Reformers divided the world into ecclesiastical governments and civil government

    • A better distinction is the Kingdom of God and Fiefdoms of Satan

    • Civil government is seen as legitimate and desirable

    • Throughout scripture those structures are Satan’s government systems

    • Evil and influenced by demons

    • The church should be separate from those structures 

    • Jesus refused the authority that Satan tempted him with

    • The early church recognised this

• The Empire of the United States is crumbling

  • Current trajectory is unsustainable

  • Christians need to be ready for this

  • It is going to be chaotic and scary

  • If we follow Jesus everything will be fine

  • Secular anarchists could learn from Christians

  • It’s too exhausting to keep wasting time arguing about going back to the Mises Caucus

32:02 - The church should act as God’s new governance structure

• The Bible is a handbook for governance

• The only authority God grants the church is directly going to our brother, or bringing others into an argument or bringing conflicts before the whole ecclesia from where they may be ejected

• There is nowhere left to go when looking for somewhere where liberty can be found

• Seasteading: the idea that people could build communities out in the ocean

  • Out of the fiefdoms of Satan

  • We are supposed to be denying territorial jurisdictions

  • We are to be a Holy nation from every tribe and nation

  • Our common ruler Jesus is to be our common ground

• The good news of the Kingdom has been abandoned

  • John and Jesus preached it

  • There’s a new boss in town

  • We need to take power and authority to deny the tyrants around us

37:34 – Tyrant be Gone. Say hello to the New Boss

• The church is misunderstood

  • What we have now is not what was supposed to be

• There’s a new boss in town

• We’ve done a marginal job of letting people know who King Jesus is

  • We’ve misdirected everyone sitting in pews into worshipping the state

    • Romans 13 is mistranslated

    • Use as a bludgeon on the head of believers

    • Teaching to do everything as the government says to do it

  • Let every soul be subject to the highest authorities, namely God and His Word

    • The only true authority

• The government will be upon His shoulders

  • Is Afghanistan or China upheld by Jesus?

  • Christians seem to think that America is the good guy

    • Patently not true given all the overseas deaths caused by foreign policy

41:53 – There are no good guys at all in the fiefdoms of Satan

• The sooner the church realises that Jesus is in the process of destroying those fiefdoms the better

• The right number of Christians in office won’t make things better

• George W Bush said God wanted him to run for office

  • 9 months later the never-ending war began

• Ambassadors do not participate in government

  • We are to be God’s ambassadors

• The missing part of the good news of the Kingdom of God

  • The church pushes news of the Kingdom into some distant future

  • Whereas it should be here and now

• America is not your friend

  • America is not a saviour

  • It is destruction

46:34 - Aren’t you sick and tired of tyrants?

• Even your favourite candidate is a tyrant

• Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results

• People are scared of the Democrats or Republicans

  • So, they put libertarians in office

  • They are still putting someone in power over their brothers and sisters

    • Jesus didn’t say to do that

    • You see how the gentiles lord it over them? It should not be so among you

• Satan likes to divide and conquer

  • Splitting people into camps to do battle with each other

• The only power they have is to rob, hurt and enslave

• God has not ordained or authorised the state to do that

  • This is a lie from the deepest pit of hell

  • Backed by demons

  • Christians need to walk away and follow Jesus

• In light of Romans 13 how do you read Acts 5?

  • There are two different definitions of submission and obedience

  • There are a lot of poorly understood words

• The Bible calls for leadership that we voluntarily follow rather than dictatorships

  • The only legitimate rules are God’s laws

    • These rules are written on our hearts

    • Respect the scriptures, but don’t slavishly check every move we make

    • Follow Jesus’ law of love

• The calling as the assembly is to step out of the world, voluntarily submit to servant leadership in the church

• We are not to participate in the failed kingdoms of this world

  • Even the US is based on satanic principles

  • Instead become a decentralized replacement governance system

  • Acknowledge King Jesus and deny allegiance to any other jurisdiction

• People are not understanding this

• How do we make people see that the state is evil, and we should abstain from it?

• Comparison chart that shows principles that the state runs on versus what the ecclesia should be running on.

• Libertarian philosophy states we should not initiate violence

  • The state runs on violence

  • Violence in defence might have legitimate value

    • When providing for one’s own household

• No human being or group have legitimate rights to rule over other humans

  • Satan said in his heart that he would be like God

    • Ruling over people

    • Taking the place of God

  • People may rule over creation, but never other human beings

    • Only Jesus holds this right as creator

  • The state is committing the same crime as Satan

    • Asserting that they have the right to arbitrarily dictate to us what we must do

55:06 – Implementing God’s Kingdom

• Entering God’s Kingdom means we leave the kingdoms of the world

  • Leave them in the dustbin

  • Establish something superior

  • Make them obsolete

  • This is what it means to seek first the Kingdom of God

• Humanity will be drawn towards their true King when we do this

• Opt out of the state

  • And everything else will be added to you

• The church seems to have missed this important part of the good news the Kingdom of God

• The assembly needs to stop viewing the assembly as purely spiritual

  • Ecclesia is not a spiritual social club

• We need to be God’s Kingdom in this world

  • We need to be creators in this world

    • We reflect God when we create things of value

• We need to encourage each other through our occupations

• We need to help one another provide for our families

• Trade with one another

  • We need solid ‘weights and measures’ like Bitcoin

  • We need our own economic system

  • We need to encourage each other’s endeavours, such as the Bad Roman Project

    • Helping to expand God’s Kingdom in the world

• We need to encourage each other’s development in writing and the arts

  • We need to do these in the name of God

  • We need to help each other

• There is no church/state separation where churches are 501 C3 corporations

  • The church becomes subservient to Satan himself

• We need to declare our independence

  • Shelter our members from taxation and state depravations

• We need to be encouraging entrepreneurism 

  • Establishing enterprises

  • Bringing wealth into the Kingdom

    • Use the wealth to advance God’s Kingdom

• We need to declare independence from territorial jurisdiction

• Covid made it clear that the state is out to shut the church down

  • We need to push back

• We need more Christian podcasters flooding the arena with this

• Jesus’ generous offer is still available to us

  • Let those who are thirsty come

  • Take the water of life without cost

1:02:37 – 1 Timothy 6: 11-17

• Paul says to Timothy:

  • Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love and steadfastness

  • He ties that good confession in with Jesus

• Jesus confessed before Pontius Pilate that His Kingdom is not of this world

• Jesus is the blessed and only sovereign, the King of Kings

• He dwells in unapproachable light

• He holds a branch of peace to His enemies

  • He hasn’t crushed them under His feet yet

• We need to be the assembly that draws people to Him

• Jesus says we can come and be a part of this voluntary society

  • We can live totally free

  • Jesus the only worthy ruler

  • He continues to bless us

• We just need to trust Jesus

• We have an eternity of God’s kindness to look forward to

  • And an entire universe to explore

  • A childlike wonder about the vastness of God and His creation

---

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Related Blog Post

66. To Vote or Not to Vote with Stephen of Anarcho-Christian

About this Episode

Stephen is from Anarcho-Christian, our brother-in-Christ podcast. He has spent the last 6 years providing an online presence and community for people like us. He has a way of expressing many viewpoints on a hotly debated topic, so we’ve invited him into our conversation on voting. 

Midterms are fast approaching. As people who serve only one King, we must consider whether we ought to participate in the kingship of others. Is it ever justifiable to participate in choosing laws and rulers for our neighbors? How involved should an anarchist really be in politics? How involved should a Christian be? Is there a difference? Listen for our take on these and other questions relating to the issue.

Episode Timestamps:

1:45 Unbiased

• Not like Fox news

  • “We report; you decide

    • (what we tell you because everything we put out is incredibly biased)”

• Debating this is good, but not on this episode

  • Discuss and let people reach their own conclusions

  • Easier said than done because of strong opinion

    • Christians should have nothing to do with voting

3:07 Facebook page disappeared

• Because they were getting too popular?

  • Facebook didn’t like their message

• Flagged unspecified memes

• No power or tools to fight back

  • Just had to wait

  • Found a workaround

• Bad Roman page is not allowed to boost posts

  • When Craig is drunk, he approves of Nate’s ornery memes

    • Then Craig gets in trouble with

      • Facebook

      • And the show producer

        • Can’t go too far with posts because losing Facebook means losing access to the majority of the fan base

• Don’t want to lose what so much work has gone into

• Having AnarchoChristian back on Facebook takes some of the heat off Bad Roman

8:14 Should anarchists vote?

• Is voting consistent with anarchist philosophy?

• Some people separate Christianity and anarchy

  • Others feel it’s entwined

  • Stephen came to anarchy by growing in his faith

• What’s the intent of voting?

• What are you voting on?

  • Is it federal or is it about your local library?

    • We don’t usually get to vote on community-level decisions

• Some anarchists wind up back in the libertarian party 

  • Saying they’re trying to get a message out

    • Seems inconsistent to be in politics

  • You can reach people within the party without joining the party

• Pulling out of politics almost feels like joining a monastery

  • Away from the evils of the world 

  • Never going back

  • Putting faith entirely on God 

    • Instead of faith in God plus worrying about whether the more evil guy wins the election

    • Good for mental health

• Defensive political action vs action to bring good

• Some people believe they can wield the power to bring about God’s Kingdom

• Maybe it’s a neutral decision

  • Maybe it’s okay to take political action

  • And maybe it’s just as okay not to

19:36 Should Christians get involved in politics?

• Should we peacefully protest everything?

• Even “setting people free” from the slavery of the current political system

  • Is slavery

    • Because they didn’t have a choice

• The motivation to vote is that our country is like a train

  • The 2 current parties are competing to send the train over the cliff faster

  • The libertarian party might at least be able to slow it down

  • Other people would rather let it crash and burn

    • We can rebuild better and faster

    • Why focus on something that is doomed?

    • “Empires fall; let it burn” - Craig

• Ron Paul actually did make a difference with his presidential campaign

  • He got involved to get a message out

  • Converted a good number of people to libertarianism

    • Directly and by starting a chain of influence

  • Got them involved with each other

  • Many have since converted to anarchism

  • Most normies will listen to a political candidate before a random dude’s libertarian podcast

• But he also proved that the mafia cannot be changed from the inside

  • Why should anarchists try to change it by voting or involvement when even the great Ron Paul failed?

  • The Republican party blocked him from succeeding

• At this point, 

  • People are frustrated with the government’s response to COVID-19

  • They see the immorality

  • They see the flaws of a 2-party system

  • Inflation is affecting them

  • If someone were to get up and speak to them from a political stage, they might move toward anarchy

29:26 Christian anarchy

• The early church was anarchist

  • So was Jesus

• The word ‘Christian’ has come to imply ‘anarchist’ to Craig

  • Because it’s obviously how we’re supposed to be

  • Voting for someone to rule over your neighbor is not justifiable

    • Jesus said Christians will not lord it over each other

    • We come to serve, not be served

• “As a Christian, what do you think is moral about going and trying to put somebody in power over your neighbor?” - Craig

• We have to understand that people don’t yet understand

  • They don’t grasp the monopoly on violence or voluntarism

  • They don’t speak our language or know what we’re referring to

• We must look at a person’s heart motive

  • Are they demanding a king to replace God?

    • Many Trump supporters are definitely putting their faith in their president

    • Republican is synonymous with Christian

    • People put way too much of their identity in politics 

      • And mix it with religion

  • If, in 1 Samuel, God says choosing a king is rejecting Me

    • Is voting for rulers now rejecting God?

    • Is it a sin to vote?

  • Is a person voting defensively or in an attempt to change the world for good?

    • Their focus would seem to not be on getting a king

• Defensive voting

  • Asking permission to not be taxed

  • Still gives the ruler power

• Empires fall

  • The US empire is going down

    • There’s no point in trying to save it

  • We’re creating money out of thin air, constantly increasing our debt

  • People get freaked out by outside forces coming to harm us

    • We’re already being harmed

• Inflation

  • Didn’t start with Biden

  • Trump pumped $2 trillion of fake money into our economy

  • People generally blame the government

    • But they don’t know what they’ve specifically done to cause the problem

    • It’s the printing of money without anything behind it

    • It’s taxes and tariffs

  • Propaganda

    • Inflation is good!

    • It’s all Putin’s fault!

    • Nobody could have seen this coming!

  • Anarchists are generally more aware of what is actually happening

• 2-party system

  • Taught, “We have to beat these guys cuz they’re the worst.”

    • Pick the lesser of 2 evils

  • People want to get someone perfect in who will 

    • Shut down the Department of Education or the CIA

    • Fulfill their dreams

    • Make everything better

    • The system will never allow them to win

  • Small changes have occurred

    • But nothing that will stop the train

• 50% of the country doesn’t vote

  • We’re halfway there!

  • People get nervous

    • If we stop, then our enemy will win the election

      • So, maybe if we all jump to the third party, we can beat them all

      • And maybe we can use the system to tackle local issues

• All politicians will lie or make exceptions at some point

  • Power corrupts

  • Even Ron Paul voted us into war

  • People might get into politics with good intentions

    • But when you’ve joined the mafia, you’re part of the mafia

    • Unrelated projects slipped into bills

  • Same with cops

    • Gotta make compromises to avoid getting fired

  • One could go in with the intent of causing a ruckus and not care about re-election

    • But it’s unlikely

    • And what kind of difference could it really make?

49:48 Roe v Wade and other big decisions

• So many people are celebrating

• It feels nefarious

• Government promises of good

  • Almost always have something bad attached

  • Even if it really is good for one group

    • It hurts someone else

    • Or hurts everyone in a different realm of life

• Printing money seems great

  • Until a year later when inflation skyrockets

53:26 Just keep following Jesus

• “Christ set us free, not the United States of America.” - Craig

• He has our best interest at heart

  • Guaranteed, the state does not

---

Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

46. Who is your God? with ian minielly

Former Green Beret Ian Minielly joins us in this episode to talk about Christians and the military. Ian joined the army after college because he didn’t have a better direction for his life. After many years, he became a Christian and chose not to reenlist. Ian now serves as a Southern Baptist Pastor and has written several books about different issues, and encourages young Southern Baptist church kids not to join the military.

As Christians, we are called to love, not kill. Ian has seen firsthand how the work our military does is not accomplishing any good; it is harming innocent people -- both the foreign nationals and the US soldiers. He is a Southern Baptist pastor now and works to change people’s perspective on the state and how it relates to Jesus and the church.

Timestamps:

2:50 How Ian got here

•   Didn’t like the life timeline presented to him

  • Career, 2 marriages, retirement, pain, death

  • So, he joined the army

    • Infantry → Green Beret

    • Found Jesus

      • Told Him, “If my unit doesn’t kill a soul this deployment, I will not re-enlist.”

        • They didn’t kill a soul.

      • Went to seminary (for free)

      • Now in full-time ministry

8:50 War

• “What we're doing has nothing to do with what Jesus asked us to do… He didn't ask us, he commanded us to love our neighbor. That includes not killing them, I would suppose, right?” -Craig

• What the military does overseas has nothing to do with Jesus

  • In fact, they command you to not share Him with anyone while you’re deployed

    • So, Ian left a box of sermon tapes with a local contact at the end of one deployment

15:42 Guns

• Passivism

• Craig bought a gun to shoot intruders, but now, only shoots recreationally

  • “That’s not an invitation for anybody to come and give me any trouble. I’ll give you a hug. I’m not gonna shoot you, but I’ll give you a hug.” - Craig

• Ian is a militant pacifist

  • “I'm not going to kick in your door and shoot you, but I might shoot you if you kick mine in.” - Ian

    • Unless you’re just stealing

• Argument: I’m being violent toward my family members if I let someone else attack them

  • “If somebody comes to try and mess with my cats, we're going to have a problem. I'm not gonna shoot you, but we're gonna wrestle.” - Craig

  • You can harm someone without killing them

    • Martial arts

    • Break their arm

    • Stop them from harming others, but do not kill

21:03 The Violence of Government

• Love your neighbor

  • It’s not loving to put somebody bad in charge of them

    • US government is repeatedly guilty of mass murderer

    • Everyone thinks their side is the lesser of two evils

      • They’re both evil.

22:27 Jesus is the Epitome of Everything a Bad Roman Wants to Be

• “When the Messiah shows up and he is nothing like what they are looking for, they totally miss him because they’re looking for majesty and a big white horse and a crown and a sword. And he shows up wearing flip flops and a robe and saying, ‘Love your neighbor.’” -Ian

• 5 Controversies

  • 22:45 1. Jesus forgives and heals a lame man (Mark 2:1-12)

    • Only God has the authority to forgive sins

      • He proved He had the authority by healing

        • If Jesus is God, that means He’s the Messiah

          • If He’s the Messiah, that means He wasn’t there to conquer and give the Jews power

          • He was giving the Kingdom to the lowly

          • His goal was not to glorify the religious leaders

          • American Christians would gladly crucify Him today, just as the Jews did then

  • 26:43 Sidetrack: Do we love our neighbors?

    • We hear that preached all the time, but has it actually clicked?

    • Do even love Jesus?

    •  We love Jesus as if he in the state are equal partners

      • We've lost our first love

    • Church attendance and baptism numbers are low

    • Most pastors are thrilled to have our troops deployed

      •  Ian is a unicorn

  • 28:13 2. Jesus associates with sinners (Mark 2:13-17)

    • Pharisees wonder if a righteous man can do that because he’d get soiled

      • Christians today act the same way

        • Churches rejecting gay people

      • Jesus hung out with

        • Gay people

        • Prostitutes

        • Druggies

    • Where can we hear the Word of God preached without hate?

    • What people do is none of my business. I've been instructed to love 

    • Much of the church outside the Jewish community started out practicing homosexuality as part of their religious life

      • If the church had always blocked out gay people from entering, there would not be a church today

    • Southern Baptist churches would not perform a gay wedding, but they welcome anyone of any lifestyle in the door

      • If they're not allowed in the church to hear the Word, how are they going to find Jesus?

      • The Pharisees kept those people away

        • Their power depended on division

          • They had to make the distinction that they were better than others

          • Very little faith involved

        • Jesus ate with them

          • They heard His message because He saw them

    • Another example: Woman caught in adultery (John 8:1-11)

      • Pharisees test Jesus

        • The Law says to stone her to death

        • Jesus asks whoever has never sinned to throw the first stone

          • They all walk away

        • He tells the lady she’s forgiven and to stop sinning

          • Clean slate

          • Even when we do it again, we get another clean slate and encouragement to try again

          • He forgives every single type of sin

          • Other people’s sins are none of our business

  • 37:30 3. Jesus’ disciples aren’t fasting (Mark 2:18-22)

    • Pharisees point it out so people will see Him as a bad Jew

    • Fasting was a very visible practice

      • Makes one look righteous

    • Jesus says they’re not fasting because He is with them

      • They’ll fast when He leaves

      • We’re in a fast from Jesus, waiting for His return

  • 40:00 4. Keeping the Sabbath (Mark 2:23-28)

    • Pharisees tried to make Jesus look unworthy because He and His followers weren't keeping the Sabbath rules

    • Jesus showed them at the Sabbath is a gift to man, not about rule-following

    • They had taken God's rules and elevated them above God

      • The Sabbath is meant to help us grow closer to God

  • 41:25 5. Doing good on the Sabbath (Mark 3:1-6)

    • Jesus healed the man with the crippled hand

      • Violated the regulations

    • It's always the right time to do good

      • You don't take a Sabbath from doing good

      • It's never time to do wrong

  • Making the world a better place is simple: just love each other

43:27 Churches are empty because we’ve made the state the highest god

• God gets relegated to Sundays and maybe Wednesdays

• Nobody wants to believe in Somebody that we don’t actually believe in

• Faithfulness to God almost always means we won't be faithful to the government

• We essentially have a national church because we back up everything the United States government does

  • People can't see (or won't admit) that everything it does is evil

  • They support the troops

• The five controversies basically boil down to this: Where do you put the state/your governing authority and where do you put God?

45:53 Connection between church and military

• Southern Baptist churches are the number one biggest supporter of the military

  • They believe it honorable to send their kids to fight overseas

  •  Why are they the strongest supporters? 

    • What are they hearing in Sunday School? 

    • What is going wrong with the way we pray and preach?

    • Why do they want to send their kids over to fight people who don't even want to fight us?

• If only Air Force planes dropped Bibles instead of bombs

• Helping kids decide not to join the military

  • Only one Ian talked to still signed up

  • Telling them the statistics of divorces, alcoholism, and infidelity among military spouses

  • Proving that our governments never been right about anything, and killing the people they tell you to won't accomplish anything

    •  Where did we get the right to go into another country and kill people?

51:01 Who are we fighting?

• Afghani villagers came across American troops and thought they must be Russian. They didn't know anything about 9-11 or even where New York was

  • Do the Christians supporting these wars understand that the people in these countries have nothing to do with what we’re supposedly fighting about?

    • We're destroying their land, and they've never even heard of us

  • Our troops traveled around and millions of dollars of equipment with guns pointing in all directions from their tanks

    • The only people around were unarmed villagers wearing flip-flops and simple robes who just wanted to sit around and enjoy life

  • Many suicide bombers were coerced into doing it

    •  Oftentimes, their families were tied up at gunpoint

    • OR They are angry because the Americans killed their family, so they are getting revenge

• God is everywhere in Afghanistan

  •  but will those people ever accept Jesus since He's associated with our country?

  •  Will they ever listen to an evangelist?

57:35 DHS is a terrible part of the government

• Carlos Morales used to work for CPS; now speaks against them

  • Legally Kidnapped book

• Ian’s book about his foster daughter

59:15 Ian’s other books

• Revoked Consent

  • Story about fighting the government and winning

• The Genetic God

  • Story about people finding evidence for God in their DNA

• Train, Deploy, and Report

  • Book on evangelism

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44. Love without Politics with Bruxy Cavey

Bruxy Cavey is a Canadian pastor working with The Meeting House, a church with roots in the Anabaptist movement. He has written a book about having a relationship with Jesus called The End of Religion. You can find him on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and bruxy.com. 

Satan has always been after Christians and works to seduce them with power, he convinces people they can make their country more Christian through politics. He pushes us to seek religion rather than relationship. Bruxy is here today to teach about a different way to change the world-- the way the Anabaptists follow; the way of love and non-violence; the way of Jesus. Anabaptists believe politics has nothing to do with Jesus. We should ignore what the government is doing and focus on our Kingdom mission, which is to love people and introduce them to Love Himself. You can find more about the anabaptists’ background and beliefs here: Radical Reformation Teaching. 

Timestamps: 

6:00 Political Identity

• Is in Jesus’ Kingdom

• “This is a threatening concept, to say ‘Jesus is inviting us into a whole new way of finding our ethnic and national and political identities in this world: the Good News of the Kingdom.’ That means we've got a king-- that's Jesus. And it also means that we are citizens of a different way of being in this world.” -Bruxy

6:57 Ambassadors 

• Less of an American citizen, and more a citizen of the Jesus Nation 

• “I’m not here to be a good Canadian; I’m here to be an ambassador to Canada” -Bruxy

8:00 A Threat to the Establishment

• “If Christians aren't a threat to the state, then we're probably not living like we're supposed to be.” -Craig

• Jesus threatened:

  • The religious leaders by giving grace and taking away people’s need for sacrifice

  • The political leaders by claiming to be King

    • They mocked him with royal clothes

      • But it was all true

      • “He is being crowned king of the alternative kingdom that doesn't overcome the world through might and power. It overcomes the world through suffering.” 

      • The cross was His coronation ceremony

11:49 Christian Nation

• America has many Christian ideals at its root

  • Therefore people think it is a Christian nation

  • “The whole idea is oxymoronic. I mean, there's no such thing as a Christian nation. The people are Christians or not Christians, but nations are not Christians unless it's the Jesus nation, the alternative Kingdom.” -Bruxy

• “Jesus doesn't teach his followers how to use their power to govern well.” -Craig

  • Our goal is not to elect a Christian politician

    • It is to love others better

    • “coercive power may have its place in a secular state, but not in the kingdom of Christ.” -Bruxy

  • People who want to be seen as good Christian politicians must look to Moses/the Old Testament for Biblical support of their actions

    • Jesus does not offer advice on how to govern

    • We don’t follow Moses; we follow Jesus

16:27 Contradictory Bible?

• The Old Testament seems to say one thing, but the New Testament says the opposite

• Jesus cut a new covenant; things changed

  • “That's why it's a bit of a misuse of the Bible to say, Well, I found this in the Bible… So I guess it's for today.”  -Bruxy

  • The Bible is a story of going from an old religious way to the way of freedom and love

  • “And of course, if we're not Jewish, it never was our covenant in the first place. We enter the story of God's people through Jesus.” -Bruxy

18:50 God is Love

• “If you want to get to know what God is like, just stare at Jesus and you get to know.” -Bruxy

• The universe was birthed because of Love

  • To be in sync with Love is to be in sync with the reason for the universe

•  It’s very simple; follow Jesus. Love.

  • When we make it more complicated, we make it complicated for people to find Him

23:17 The Problem of Power

• Basically, everything that distracts us from love can be boiled down to one thing: power

• We think we're going to solve The World's problems in our own power rather than just being humble and accepting God's gift

• The devil doesn't fret if we believe in God; he offers religion to distract us with power

• That's why every generation has a movement of people who go back to simplicity

25:50 Anabaptists

• Amish, Mennonite, and Anabaptists come from the same root

• “Repent” means to rethink and renew

  • It's a lifelong commitment to be willing to repent anytime you find something isn't right

  • Anabaptist is the renewal movement

  • “You gotta be willing to rethink some of the stuff you’ve assumed is Christian.” -Bruxy

•  The Catholics needed to repent, so some of them started the Protestant church

  •  But their idea was that Christians needed to follow the Bible

    •  The Bible can be used to justify just about anything

    •  They continued to fight wars and be tied to governments

    • Many wars were against the Catholics

    • The Anabaptist movement was born during this time

    • They focused on Jesus and were pacifists

    • They were persecuted by both the Protestants and Catholics for having different views

    • Then, some of them ran to America and hunkered down to try to be invisible

    • They chose not to interact with society

    • Amish & Mennonite

34:08 No Violence

• “It’s ok to die for a cause, but it’s not ok to kill for a cause.”

• Change from coercion, fighting, and laws to Holy Spirit’s guidance and fruit of the Spirit

• People will think you’re nuts for not defending yourself

• Passivists aren’t necessarily hippies in the forest waving flags

• “Peace should not just be the goal that you’re trying to achieve by any means necessary… Peace is the way to achieve the goal.” -Bruxy

  • Practice for the goal as you work toward its achievement

• Peaceful response to violence

  • If they hit you, calmly provide them an opportunity to hit you again

  • If they make you carry something for a mile, choose to carry it for two

    • “That first mile was slavery. The second mile is freedom.” -Bruxy

    • It shows them love

    • It might cause them to realize how cruel they are being to a fellow human

    • Defy their expectations

• “We tend to forget the effect you can have on a person's life by not killing them.” -Craig

• “The only way we can change hearts is through love. Not through the love of power.” -Bruxy 

40:55 Are Anabaptists Anti-State?

• Both Catholics and Protestants were fused with their governments

  • Whenever they found someone guilty of being a heretic, the state would have a trial and kill them for the church

  • This was like the Old Covenant where God was the religious leader of a nation

    • The anabaptists want to follow Jesus in the New Covenant

    • So, they chose to ignore what the state is doing and they separated from it

34. Divine Comedy with Jason Mock and Rodney Norman

Does God have a sense of humor? What is the role of comedy within society? Craig and Jason Mock are joined by comedian Rodney Norman for a fun(sometimes funny) conversation on comedy, politics, and Christianity. In this episode we are reminded of the importance and the power of joy and laughter. God wants us to be happy, to love one another and be joyous, but politics and fear can get in the way. Rodney helps us remember to laugh and to take life less seriously through comedy and a never ending curiosity. 

TIMESTAMPS AND STARTING POINTS:

00:22 Episode Intro

• Rodney Norman Video - A Sunday Sermon

02:20 Jason’s go to comics

• Mitch Headberg, Jim Gaffagan, Michael Junior

02:53 Rodney’s (fake) Background

• Member of Q

3:36 Rodney’s Real Background

• 20 years in comedy

• Alcoholic grandfather acts

• Philosophy

• Role of Comedian

• Nietzsche is big inspiration

5:57 Inspiration behind Sunday Sermon Video

• State of the world, battles of who is a “real christian”

• All comes down to treating others with love and respect - if we could do this, governments become unnecessary 

• Kill the idiots to stop idiots?

• Gospel isn’t about being right it’s about being nice and loving one another as ourselves

 8:38 Message of Jesus and how government blocks us from attaining the truth of the message

• It’s in our best interest to live in peace with one another

• How much power do you want to give anyone over your life?

• When you have a final authority, they’re the only authority

10:54 Why having more Christians in office won’t make things better

• Christians are called to the fringes of society the the centers of power

12:09 How Rodney uses comedy to spread the message of loving your neighbor

• Memory and emotional connections

• Comedy vs. fear mongering

• Censorship, manipulation, and control 

16:52 Untangling from the american media-political machine

• Faith in God vs. fear of finite political leaders

• Christ and stoicism

• Straw-God, we have watered down and oversimplified who God is and made him into an impossible version

22:22 Politics or WWE - which is more real?

25:22 Why the rise in comedians challenging the system, and how does it affect how Rodney sees the future or social media(censorship, maintaining audience, free speech ect.)

• Comedian is supposed to mock the things in the system to beat the system

• When social media creates taboo, it give the comedian more material

• Allegory and similes 

• Some are trying to be the smart guy vs. a comedian

• Lenny Bruce and George Carlin

• If your playing safe you're not getting anywhere

32:22 Social media and life

• Enjoy our lives vs. let others control it

33:25 Founders of America and what they fought for

• 3% tax

• Patrick Henry, George Mason\

• Oath of to protect Constitution to protect from “enemies foreign and domestic”

 36:21 Jesus was a snark

• Laughter as medicine

39:50 Comedy as medicine

• Bad Gigs Bad Bosses and Dealing with Life

45:17 Mitch Hedberg

• Jokes

• Working with him

48:43 Rodney’s Plugs

• Rodneynorman.com

• Youtube Channel

31. Christians and Muslims Breaking Bread with Peace Catalyst

On this episode, Craig and Abby Cleckner talk with Keith Giles and Becca from the Peace Catalyst Podcast. The Peace Catalyst is an organization that is committed to fostering understanding, reconciliation, and peace between Christians and Muslims. Jesus was the Prince of Peace, and as Christians we should be constantly striving to live a life of peace and love towards others, especially those with differing beliefs or culture than ours. Because of the political narrative, driven by the media, American Christians have been misled and taught to hate and fear those who we don’t understand. The Peace Catalyst helps to foster conversation and relationship, which in turn, help to bring an understanding of the humanity and dignity of others we may currently see as different. 

LINKS & STARTING POINTS:

2:45 Becca’s background 

• working with Peace Catalyst for 2 years

• was looking for a faith based peacebuilding avenue 

6:10 Keith’s history with Peace Catalyst

• got involved in Peace Catalyst about 1 ½ ago

• first involvement was a Peace Feast

• Martin Brooks: Director of Peace Catalyst 

10:09 Becca: burdened to help facilitate peace between Christians and Muslims

• Israel/Palestine

• while in college developed a deeper understanding of the Middle East and the conflict between Israel and Palestine 

• grew up in a pro Israel environment 

• while in Jordan developed a deeper understanding of the Middle East 

• connected with others who have a heart for peace 

• wanted to participate in restoring Shalom 

• push back from people who don’t have a holistic view of the situation and don’t understand the many factors at play 

15:38 Peace Catalyst 

• proponent of loving everyone, regardless of race or religious affiliation 

• facilitate reconciliation 

• remind and educate Christians about their ministry of reconciliation

18:01 American Christians have bought into a false ideas 

• “they hate us for our freedoms” 

• the truth is not the story as it has been told and presented to us by media and those with political interest in the narrative

• the way to break down barriers is by sitting down and talking to the “other side”

• listen to their story to build empathy 

• “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi 

• Christian Tribalism 

• it is not black and white, good guys vs. bad guys

25:40 Three Stages of Peace 

• Stage One - Understanding 

• Stage Two - Connecting

• Stage Three - Collaborating

• American Christians don’t realize that most Muslims condemn 9/11 and violent extremist/terrorist (just like they do) 

32:05 Are people afraid to be wrong? 

• politics and media are used to instil fear and misconception 

• we don’t have to believe the same thing in order to respect each other’s dignity as fellow human beings

• it’s ok to disagree 

• fear is heretics 

• we act as if Christianity had all the correct information about God 

• the Gospel is not about information, it is about transformation 

• if you are going to follow Christ you are called to love your neighbor 

• move away from the need for certainty 

• move away from fear, move towards love

• Romans 12, transformed by the renewing of your mind 

• you are closer to God when you are asking questions, than when you have it all figured out 

44:20 Peace Catalyst started by Rick Love

• he also started Evengelicals for Peace 

• the goal is fostering peace between Muslims and Christians and bringing peace to our communities 

• how can we work together as a community 

• why and how Christians should engage in peace building 

48:42 Plugs 

• Peace Catalyst Podcast 

• Peace Catalyst Facebook groups for listeners of the show

• The Bad Roman Discussion Group on Facebook

28. The American Church’s Political Obsession with Scott Arnold

Many Christians in the United States are outspoken about their desires for Christian men and women to obtain political power and influence. The stance is that religious freedoms need to be protected, but is forcing morality on the people through legislation an effective way to spread the gospel?  Could Christians be doing more harm than good in their efforts?

Scott Arnold is the author of the article Winning the Battle, But Losing the War: The American Church’s Political Obsession.  In this episode, Craig talks with Scott about his transition from a world of conservative, Christian, and redline Republican upbringing into one of Christain Anarchy. They explore how the gospel message can be destroyed or damaged by using politics to force a Christian agenda. Scott also explains his involvement with Steiger International, whose mission is to impact the global youth culture and make the gospel relevant. This is a thought-provoking episode for any Christian who has been of the mindset that Christians need to use politics to further their agenda or force their morality on others. 

Timestamps and starting points:

1:27 Scott’s Background

• Grew up in the conservative Christian republican culture 

• majored in pastoral ministries 

• currently lives in northeast Georgia 

4:04 How Scott found The Bad Roman

• George Floyd and defund the police sparked interest in politics 

• began to research anarchy 

• found The Bad Roman through Christian podcast search 

8:04 Learning about anarchy 

• David Pierce, founder of Steiger International 

• Steiger started in Amsterdam and focused on the anarcho punk scene

• Polish Woodstock

11:35 Discussing Scott’s article: Winning the Battle, but Losing the War: The American Church’s Political Obsession

• Christians equate increased political power with increased influence

• When bringing the gospel into the political realm pieces are lost 

• Abortion and the messy art of law making

• using politics to force Christian values on others

• using the government to control morals 

• outsource morality to the state

• the state is not, and cannot be, Christian

• Myth of Christain Nation

26:25 What is the endgame in winning this war?

• Best case: Christian religious freedom and comfortability 

• worst case: suppression of all other philosophies 

• is it really religious freedom Christians are fighting for?

• prayer in school 

43:05 Polish Woodstock

• The largest outdoor music festival in Europe 

• Steiger’s outreach 

• Bands: Unrest and No Longer Music

Scott’s Plugs:

• Steiger.org 

• Unrest

• No Longer Music

• Provoke and Inspire podcast

• Scott’s Blog

• Scott’s Article on The Bad Roman Blog

26. How to be a Bad Roman with Scott Goldman

What does it mean to be a Bad Roman, why is it a good thing for Christians? Craig talks to Scott Goldman about his article “Come Be a Bad Roman”. They discuss the Christian’s entanglement with the state and address the issue of whether or not it is possible to simultaneously engage with the state and follow Christ. Nations, such as the United States, make claims of freedom for all and give mouth to ideals held by Christianity, but does a State really behave in such a manner?

When we misconstrue a nation to be based on Christian values - when that State's involvement at home and abroad proves to be in stark contradiction to its claimed values we must turn away. As Christians we must decide: do we believe in the goal of peace at all cost, peace by might makes right, that the government justifies being their objective, or do we truly adhere to the teachings and challenge of Christ to love our neighbors and enemies?

Join us as Craig and Scott take on these questions head-on and address reasons why Christians seem too ready to follow a man-made government whose functioning is in direct opposition to Christ’s Kingdom.

Timestamps and starting points:

2:37 Intro to Scott’s article: Come Be a Bad Roman

• We(Christians) are not called to be involved with the state.

• Is it possible to engage with the state and follow Christ?

• Pax Romana or the way of Christ?

• Jesus did not come as a war hero

7:20 How can we expect the rest of the world to perceive the United States as a “Christian” nation when we are actively killing them?

9:30 A new kingdom emerging

13:07 The desire of control by both the left and the right side of the political spectrum. 

21:52 Why are Christians so ready to follow a man made government? 

• Fear

• Laziness and scapegoating 

26:10 American Christianity’s shirking of their responsibility

• Christians support for Trump 

• Is there a difference between the Democrats and Republicans?

• How would we behave if the bombs were being dropped in the USA? 

30:24 Christ’s story through a different lens 

• Pacifism explained

• Christ was a pacifist, but also a man of action 

36:36 Our kingdom is not of this world 

• fall of the Roman Empire 

• Christ’s command to not worry 

• The Mind of Christ 

• Uprooting From the Poverty Mindset

46:00 No King But Christ