168. Christians in the Middle East: Have We Actually Tried Jesus? with Adam Stump

Adam Stump asked two congregations a pretty simple question.

Did they know there are Christians in Iran?

Not one hand went up.

Then he pushed a little further. Did they know some Christian communities in Iran have existed there for centuries? Did they know Christians live across the Middle East, including places Americans mostly hear about through war reports?

Again, almost nobody knew.

That little church pop quiz gets to the heart of this episode. What happens when Christians in America know more about the governments we are told to fear than the people who actually live under them?

And what happens when some of those people are our brothers and sisters in Christ?

Adam is a pastor with a background in sociology, anthropology, history, archaeology, and a long list of ordinary jobs before full-time ministry.

He also calls himself a “professional gadfly,” he likes asking questions that make comfortable answers harder to hold.

The People Missing From Our Map

For Adam, this did not begin as an academic interest in Middle Eastern history.

His wife started drawing his attention to Iranian Christians in the United States who were facing detention and possible deportation. Adam began reading. Then he began meeting people. He traveled to Washington, D.C., connected with an Iranian pastor and people from World Relief, and started paying closer attention to Christians whose stories rarely made it into his own church world.

What began as information became personal.

“That’s really where it all began with me… this chunk of human suffering that I had not previously been aware of.” — Adam Stump (14:43)

That sentence is uncomfortable because most of us have our own version of it.

There are people suffering right now whom we barely know exist.

It is easy to turn Iran into a word on a map. It becomes a government, a military target, a headline, or an “enemy.” Real people disappear inside the label.

World Relief has documented the struggle of Iranian Christians who fled religious persecution only to face immigration detention in the United States. World Relief — Iranian Christians, asylum, and detention

Once people have names and faces, foreign policy gets harder to discuss like a football game.

Christianity in Iran Is More Complicated Than We Think

Craig admits early in the conversation that he knew very little about Christianity in Iran.

That is probably true for a lot of us.

Adam explains that Iran contains old Armenian and Assyrian Christian communities as well as converts from Islam who often worship in much more dangerous conditions. Some historic Christian communities have a recognized place in Iranian society. Converts meeting in Farsi-speaking house churches can face a very different reality.

That means even the phrase “Christians in Iran” covers several different stories.

It also means the Middle East cannot be reduced to “Muslims over there.”

Christians, Jews, Muslims, and many other communities have shared those lands for centuries. Their history includes terrible persecution, but also ordinary seasons of living beside one another.

Adam makes a point that should be obvious but often is not: an entire country cannot be treated like one person.

Iran is not ninety million copies of its government.

Neither is America.

Can You Liberate Someone With a Bomb?

This is where the conversation turns from ignorance to power.

What happens when the United States says it wants to “liberate” people in another country through military force?

If Christians are already trying to survive quietly in a hostile environment, does bombing their country make them safer? Or can military action by a nation widely identified with Christianity make local Christians look like agents of the enemy?

The question is not whether the Iranian government deserves criticism. Both Craig and Adam are clear that defending human beings in Iran is not the same thing as defending the Iranian state.

The deeper issue is the strange phrase we have heard for decades: bombing for peace.

Adam offers a much simpler alternative.

“We have tried bombs and bullets and it doesn’t work. Why don’t we try love?” — Adam Stump (28:55–29:05)

It almost sounds too simple.

Then again, so does “love your enemies.”

Have We Actually Tried Jesus?

Craig hears Adam say “try love” and asks the question that eventually became the title of the episode:

“Have we actually tried Jesus when it comes to this stuff?” — Craig Harguess (32:12–32:25)

That deserves more than a quick answer.

Christians have tried political parties. We have tried presidents. We have tried military strength. We have tried Christian nations. We have tried laws, campaigns, coalitions, and the promise that the next ruler will finally put things back in order.

Have we tried Jesus?

Not Jesus as a mascot for the state.

Jesus as the man who told Peter to put away his sword.

Jesus as the King who told us to love our enemies and pray for people who persecute us.

Jesus as the Lord of a Kingdom that crosses borders without asking Caesar for permission.

Adam puts it this way:

“Christians ought to be kingdom people before they are… citizens of any country.” — Adam Stump (28:05–28:10)

That does not mean Christians stop caring about the world.

It means we stop letting the state decide whom we are allowed to love.

Because once we know there are Christians, human beings, beneath the bombs, we have to wrestle with Faith.

Once we know the person called an enemy is a mother, pastor, child, Muslim neighbor, or fellow believer, clean political categories start getting messy.

But, life is messy and Jesus calls us to follow him through it with love not fear.

When Politics Uses the Church

Adam calls himself a “recovering Republican.”

He is careful about what he means. He is not saying every conservative idea suddenly became evil. He is talking about the party structure itself and the way political movements can turn religion into a weapon.

“Our political parties in America have really used religion as a weapon… to increase political division rather than increasing unity.” — Adam Stump (45:10–45:30)

Christian nationalism tells us the nation needs Christianity in order to become strong. Jesus seems much more interested in whether Christians are faithful.

Those are not the same goal. A powerful nation can have weak disciples. A politically weak church can still love enemies, feed hungry people, forgive persecutors, welcome strangers, and refuse to kill.

No King but Christ means the church does not need Caesar to make Jesus Lord. He already is.

Constantine's Trade

Eventually Adam reaches back nearly seventeen centuries.

His judgment is strong: one of the worst things to happen to Christianity was Constantine and the rise of Christendom.

Before Christianity gained imperial favor, Christians lived for centuries without controlling Rome. They were sometimes tolerated and sometimes persecuted. They did not have the machinery of empire available to enforce the faith.

Then Christianity gained political power.

Adam argues that something was lost in the trade.

“Even though it grew in political and earthly power, the spiritual power waned.” — Adam Stump (55:48–55:55)

That is worth sitting with. What if political strength and spiritual strength are not the same thing?

What if they can even move in opposite directions?

The church may gain access to rulers and still lose sight of Jesus. It may win a culture war and forget how to love the people on the other side. Empire always offers the church something shiny. Jesus keeps handing us a cross.

People Are Made to Love and Be Loved

One of Adam’s clearest statements comes as the conversation turns back to the people we call enemies.

He does not pretend governments are harmless. He does not pretend violence and injustice are imaginary.

He simply refuses to let those things erase the humanity of ordinary people.

“Those people are all people created in the image of God, and they are actually created to love and be loved.” — Adam Stump (51:40–51:55)

That changes the starting point. We do not begin with, “What does America need from these people?” We begin with, “How does God see them?”

That is harder than nationalism because nationalism gives us categories. Friend. Enemy. Ally. Threat. Citizen. Foreigner. Jesus keeps turning categories back into people.

Get Out of the Bubble

Adam's final advice is refreshingly ordinary: meet somebody.

Talk to Muslims instead of only talking about Muslims. Visit an international grocery store. Meet someone from another country. Ask questions. Listen to how America looks from outside America.

Adam says that when he sees someone attacking Muslims online, he often asks one question:

How many Muslims do you actually know? The answer usually is silence.

His own shift began decades ago when he met Muslim classmates and became their friend. Real relationships made it harder to accept opinions that had simply been handed to him.

And learning cannot stop at “now I know more facts.” It has to change how we live. Adam urges listeners to use whatever influence they have to speak for people who are easier for society to ignore. But he also warns against becoming so angry that nobody can hear us.

“I think that we’re gonna change this thing through relationships.” — Adam Stump (1:10:50–1:11:00)

Maybe changing the world looks less like taking control and more like opening a table. Listening. Learning a name. Refusing to call millions of strangers our enemies. And then trying the strange, difficult thing Jesus told us to do all along: Love them.

Connect with Adam Stump

• Linktree: https://linktr.ee/Pastor.Adam.Stump

• Substack: https://pastoradamstump.substack.com/

• Instagram: https://instagram.com/pastor_adam_stump/

• TikTok: @pastor.adam.stump

• Facebook: https://facebook.com/p/Pastor-Adam-Stump-100095132295636/

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PastorAdamStump

• Email: adam.joseph.stump@gmail.com

• Western Pennsylvania UMC Profile: https://wpaumc.org/clergydetail/479051

• Central Highlands UMC: https://wpaumc.org/churchdetail/218250

Highlights & Takeaways

• The Middle East is not one religious block; ancient Christian communities are still part of the region

• Meeting real people can break political categories that survive easily from a distance

• Christian nationalism confuses the worldwide Kingdom of God with the interests of one nation

• “Bombing for peace” deserves special scrutiny from people commanded to love their enemies

• Political power and spiritual power are not the same thing

• The church does not need state power to make Jesus King

• People called “enemies” remain image-bearers created to love and be loved

• Lasting change usually grows through relationships, listening, and honest questions rather than coercion

Listen

Pay attention to Adam’s church pop quiz and the silence that follows. Notice what happens when a political category like “Iran” turns back into real Christians, Muslims, families, pastors, and children.

Reflect

Who have you learned to think of mainly as an enemy? If you knew that person face to face, what might become harder to say about them?

Read

Read Matthew 5:38–48, John 17:20–23, and John 18:10–11. Sit with Jesus’ commands about enemies, unity, and Peter’s sword.

For a current look at Iranian Christians facing asylum and detention questions in the United States, read World Relief’s reporting on the issue. World Relief — From the Pulpit to the Capitol

Practice

This week, talk with someone whose culture, religion, or national background is different from yours. Do not begin with a debate. Ask about their life. Listen long enough to learn something you did not already know.

Episode Timestamps

(00:00) Meet Adam Stump

• West Virginia roots and Nazarene upbringing

• archaeology, anthropology, history, and ministry

• relational approach to pastoring

(04:27) A Long Road Into Ministry

• resisting the pastor path

• secular work and cross-cultural experience

• ministry beyond professional clergy

(09:10) Christians in the Middle East

• American blind spots

• Iran as the immediate focus

• U.S. power and regional war

(14:43) Iranian Converts and Underground Churches

• asylum and deportation fears

• house churches and Farsi worship

• historic Armenian and Assyrian communities

(20:11) A More Complicated Middle East

• Christians, Jews, and Muslims across centuries

• “people of the book”

• ancient communities behind modern headlines

(25:17) Bombs, Liberation, and Christian Nationalism

• danger of foreign intervention

• “bombing for peace”

• kingdom people before national citizens

(32:12) Have We Actually Tried Jesus?

• politics tangled with faith

• Peter's sword and Christian nonviolence

• U.S.–Israel policy and Christian witness

(41:35) The Church Pop Quiz

• zero hands in two congregations

• Christians in Iran and Lebanon

• ignorance, discomfort, and small-group learning

(48:11) Love Your Enemies Gets Uncomfortable

• trying love instead of another political savior

• comfort-driven Christianity

• image-bearers beyond enemy labels

(55:10) Constantine, Christendom, and Empire

• Christianity gaining political power

• spiritual power versus state power

• empire, party movements, and global perception

(1:00:19) Seeing America From Outside America

• Adam's 2002 experience in France

• political personality and national reputation

• shrinking American perspective

(1:05:23) How We Actually Change Things

• “How many Muslims do you know?”

• meeting people outside the American bubble

• listening, using influence, and changing through relationships

Keep the Conversation Going

If this episode challenged the way you see Christians in the Middle East, share it with someone who may have the same blind spot.

For another angle on the same region, listen to Episode 166, Christianity in the Middle East: U.S. Foreign Policy vs. The Holy Land with Nathan Perrin. Episode 166 with Nathan Perrin

You can also hear Iranian pastor Ara Torosian’s story in Episode 162, Iranian Christians, ICE Raids, and the Cost of Following Jesus. Episode 162 with Ara Torosian

Read the Gospels. Meet people face to face. Love the person behind the label.

No King but Christ.

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146. Christianity without Compromise: Jesus Centered Life, Not Left or Right with Jake Doberenz

When Christians step into the political arena, do we realize how much compromise it takes to stay there?

It’s easy to think that casting a vote, joining a campaign, or posting about “God and country” is just doing our civic duty. But what happens when the cross gets buried under a flag and we call that faithfulness?

In this episode of The Bad Roman Podcast, Craig Hargis sits down with Jake Doberenz, host of Christianity Without Compromise and writer of the Smashing Idols Substack, to unpack what happens when believers give their loyalty to Caesar and call it discipleship. From a rigged high-school election to the moral chaos of modern war, this conversation asks a dangerous question:

👉 Can you follow Jesus without compromise and still play the political game?

The Illusion of Influence: Why Our Votes Don’t Redeem the System

Jake shares a funny but revealing story from high school: helping count ballots in a student election that didn’t add up. The “safe” candidate won, even though the “popular” one clearly had more votes.

It’s small potatoes compared to Washington, D.C., but the lesson hit deep – politics is messy because power always corrupts. Even good intentions get swallowed up by systems built on ambition, control, and fear.

The same thing happens every election season in America. Christians line up behind the lesser of two evils and call it righteousness, forgetting that evil (lesser or not) is still evil. As Craig puts it:

“We’re outsourcing our sin to politicians and calling it stewardship.”

We tell ourselves that our guy will make a difference, that our vote “matters.” But as history and Scripture both show, when human power is the goal, the Kingdom always gets compromised.

Israel’s King Problem: A Warning from 1 Samuel 8

When Israel demanded a king, God warned them exactly what would happen:

“He will take your sons for his army, your daughters for his servants, your fields for his gain. You will cry out because of your king, but the Lord will not answer you.” (1 Samuel 8)

They wanted to be “like the nations.” They wanted the comfort of a visible ruler, something tangible they could trust. But a king, any king, always costs something. And as Jake points out, the story of David proves it.

David began as a humble man after God’s heart, refusing to kill Saul, honoring God above self. But the moment he put on the crown, the corruption began. Politics twisted even the best of men.

Sound familiar? We see it every election cycle. The promises start holy, the slogans sound moral, but once power hits the bloodstream, compromise follows.

The lesson is timeless: You can’t have a king and still claim “No King but Christ.”

Psalm 146: A Better Political Manifesto

If the modern church needs a political platform, Psalm 146 should be it:

“Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save… Blessed are those whose help is the God of Jacob.”

Politicians die. Policies change. Empires fall. But the Kingdom of God is consistent: feeding the hungry, freeing prisoners, lifting up the oppressed, and frustrating the wicked.

The psalmist describes God’s Kingdom as everything the state isn’t: compassionate instead of coercive, restorative instead of retaliatory, faithful instead of fickle.

When Christians defend injustice in the name of national interest, when we justify violence because it’s “our side” doing it, we aren’t advancing the Kingdom…we’re betraying it.

Romans 12 Before Romans 13

Jake makes a crucial point: never read Romans 13 before Romans 12.

Romans 12 tells us to bless our enemies, to overcome evil with good, and to refuse revenge. Then comes Romans 13, the chapter everyone loves to quote to justify obedience to government.

But if your reading of Romans 13 gives Caesar permission to do what Jesus forbids you to do, you’ve missed the point. The passage isn’t a loophole for Christians to fund or bless violence, it’s a reminder that God can use even corrupt governments for His purposes. It’s descriptive, not prescriptive.

The call remains the same: love your enemies, feed your enemies, pray for those who persecute you.

That’s the real revolution.

Consistency: The Most Radical Witness

Craig and Jake both circle back to one word: consistency.

It’s what made Jesus so magnetic. He didn’t just preach love of enemy, He practiced it, even as they nailed Him to a cross.

Consistency is what gives the gospel credibility. When Christians say “love your neighbor” but vote for leaders who bomb them, the world notices. When we preach peace but cheer for war, seekers walk away.

Jake shared a story of a friend who left the faith after watching Christians justify the slaughter in Gaza. “If this is Christianity,” he said, “I want nothing to do with it.”

That’s the cost of inconsistency. Not just hypocrisy, but lost souls.

Repentance and Reorientation

Repentance isn’t a guilt trip. It’s a direction change. As the Bible Project puts it, repentance means to turn around.

If your politics have hardened your heart, turn around.
If you’ve placed hope in princes and policies, turn around.
If you’ve excused violence because your side did it, turn around.

Refocus on the Sermon on the Mount. Build your life, and your worldview, on that mountain, not Capitol Hill.

A Different Kind of Politics

Neither Craig nor Jake are anti-political, they’re anti-idolatry. They believe in a Kingdom politics rooted in the Beatitudes, not ballots.

As Jake said:

“Jesus has a politics. But it looks nothing like America, or Uganda, or anywhere else on earth.”

The Kingdom of God is a government without coercion, a rule where the King dies for His enemies instead of killing them. That’s the politics of the Lamb.

It’s time for the church to recover it.

No King but Christ

When we call Jesus “King,” it’s not a metaphor. It’s an allegiance statement. It means nobody else gets to be king, not presidents, not pastors, not parties.

Craig sums it up perfectly:

“My allegiance is to Jesus. Not a president, not a senator, not a mayor. Jesus Christ alone.”

If that sounds radical, good. The early church was called radical too. Polycarp, Origen, and Tertullian all refused to worship the emperor. They were accused of being bad Romans.

Maybe that’s what faithfulness still looks like today.

Listen & Reflect

🎧 Listen to the full episode: Christianity without Compromise: Jesus Centered Life, Not Left or Right with Jake Doberenz, available on all major podcast platforms.

💬 Question for reflection:
If Jesus is King, what does that mean for how you engage with politics, power, and national identity?

📖 Scriptures to Revisit:
1 Samuel 8 | Psalm 146 | Matthew 5–7 | Romans 12–13

🤝Connect with Jake Doberenz:

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Introducing guest Jake Doberins

• Host of Christianity Without Compromise and author of Smashing Idols SubStack

• Exploring Christian involvement in politics and its real-world impact

(1:00) From “Smashing Idols” to “Christianity Without Compromise”

• Jake explains the podcast’s name change for clarity and focus

• Connection between his Substack and podcast projects

(2:26) Standing firm on the words of Jesus

• Discussing the need for consistency in following Christ’s teachings

• Rejecting political debates and distractions

(4:07) Jake’s background and calling

• Biblical Studies and Theological Studies degrees

• From church ministry to media ministry and podcast production

(8:00) Early political experience

• Jake’s role as Republican Club president in high school

• First-hand exposure to campaigns and local politics

(15:22) Wrestling with faith and politics

• Questioning whether political life aligns with Christian convictions

• Recognizing the temptation to compromise for success

(19:52) The cost of Christian political involvement

• Exploring how “outsourcing sin to Caesar” harms others

• Challenging Christians to see the damage caused by state loyalty

(24:12) Consistency as Christian witness

• Why inconsistency weakens the gospel message

• The power of living out “No King but Christ”

(28:51) 1 Samuel 8 and Israel’s demand for a king

• God’s warning about taxation, conscription, and oppression

• Parallels between ancient Israel and modern Christian nationalism

(32:00) Reading Romans 13 through Romans 12

• Understanding submission to government through enemy-love

• The Sermon on the Mount as the Christian’s true political manifesto

(35:35) The corrupting nature of power

• How King David’s downfall reveals the danger of authority

• Politics as a distraction from devotion to Jesus

(40:17) Psalm 146 — trusting God, not princes

• Contrast between human rulers and God’s faithfulness

• Reminder that only God’s Kingdom endures

(45:39) The mission behind Christianity Without Compromise

• Refocusing believers on Jesus over modern idols

• Addressing politics, Christian nationalism, and misplaced loyalties

(50:28) Encouragement for Christian creators

• Craig calls for more podcasts, blogs, and projects centered on Jesus

Importance of sharing the message: No King but Christ

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92. War, Policing & Digital Activism with Jason Bassler

About this Episode

Get ready, as we are joined by Jason Bassler founder of The Free Thought Project and Police the Police for a candid conversation about political corruption, digital activism, and the profound impacts and reach of war. Listen in as Jason shares his transition from libertarian to anarchist, spurred by his experiences during the Occupy Wall Street which also helps catalyze his subsequent dedication to police accountability. He offers an intriguing behind-the-scenes look at the Free Thought Project, its evolution, its unexpected shutdown on major social media platforms in 2012 and its uphill rebuild.

We don't shy away from the hard truths in this episode. We scrutinize the alarming effects of war, corruption, and propaganda on our society. This includes a frank discussion on the startling death toll from the post-9/11 war on terror and the profits made by US contractors. We take a deep look at the Ukrainian War as a potential proxy war, the implications of the military-industrial complex, and the ripple effects of these conflicts across different generations. The power of the internet in how different generations are countering these narratives is a key focus.

Lastly, we expose the uncomfortable realities about the US' militarism, its lack of accountability for war crimes, and the fleeting anti-war stance when candidates ascend to power (and their subsequent escalation of conflicts once they have that power). From Lockheed Martin's sponsorship of a pride parade to the $2300 expat exit fee from a free country, we lay bare the government’s blatant hypocrisy. Jason's reflections on the strength of the internet and the value of criticism as a sign of tough love conclude our conversation on a hopeful note. This episode promises to be a thought-provoking, no-holds-barred exploration into our political landscape and the power of digital activism. Don't miss it!

Jason Bassler:

Jason’s Personal Links

Police the Police Links

Free Thought Project Links

Episode Timestamps:

 2:04 Who is Jason Bassler?

• 10 years as anarchist

• Occupy Wall Street 

• Apolitical growing up

• Notion of “Republicans bad” in Bay Area

• Ron Paul

• Free Thought Project

• Police the Police in 2012

• 2013 Business Partner Matt

• Deplatforming by Facebook and Twitter

11:00 Power of a Platform 

• Contrarian thinking and advertisements

• Chasing a dollar

• Authenticity, consistency, and persistence 

• Longevity of building your own platform

• Bending a knee for a dollar

• Authenticity repeated

• Donald Trump 

20:30 Would society fall into chaos without the police?

• Police The Police (Facebook)

• George Floy, Covid Restriction Enforcements

• Monopoly on legal violence

• Security force in a voluntary society

• Dale Brown – Threat Management Center

• Privatized security in Detroit

• St. Louis Police Office on Bad Roman

• Sheriff from AZ on Bad Roman 

26:29  War as an Export

• Bret Wilkins Common Dreams Article

• Atlantic Council and Facebook Partnerships

• Iraq War 

• Military Spending v.s Money Laundering

• Proxy War in Ukraine

• How much money has been sent to Ukraine?

• White House official admits no way to track spending in Ukraine

• Lost 6 billion dollars

• US Weapons on the dark web

34:37 Exhaustion of Perpetual Wars on the Public Psyche

•  People born post-9/11 have not been in a war

• Has war become normalized? 

• Are younger generations rejecting war?

• Indoctrination of government propaganda from a young age

• Are boomers the most propagandized generation?

• Has the internet taken the potency out of government propaganda?

41:36 Realities of War and Its Perpetrators 

• Modern Genocide: America’s Post-911 War on Terror Killed over 4.5 Million People

• Brown University Original Study

• “Cross-fire between two warring gangs”

• Every country is a gang with a flag…where is there to go?

• Children Suffering from Wasting in Iraq and Afghanistan

• Weaponized uranium and adverse health outcomes in Iraq: a systematic review

• Trump's War Efforts

• Yemen vs. Ukraine in public discourse

• Obama’s War Crimes - “Drone King”

• United States Government acts as a terrorist organization across the globe

• Axios Article: Defense Contractors Generatre 7.5 Trillion 

• Lockheed Martin Pride Parade Float

• Fruit-Flavored Hotdogs

• Costs to become an expat

1:01:00 Connect with Jason

• Free Thought Project Website

• Instagram @Jason.e.Bassler

• X (Twitter) @JasonBassler1

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