131. Military Service and God’s Will: A Veteran’s Journey with Steve O'Connor

About this Episode

In this eye-opening episode of the Bad Roman Podcast, host Craig Harguess sits down with Steve O'Connor, a former Marine who shares his powerful journey from military service to embracing a Christ-centered life. Steve's story challenges conventional wisdom about patriotism, military service, and what it truly means to follow Jesus.

The Allure of Military Service

Steve's path to the military was paved with family tradition and societal expectations. Growing up in a family with deep military roots, he was captivated by the idea of serving his country from a young age. The events of 9/11 further solidified his resolve to join the armed forces.

"I wasn't a great student and so they, they always say, oh well, you know, if you're not great in school, the military is perfect place for you," Steve recalls. This common narrative, coupled with family pride and a desire to defend his country, led him to enlist in the Marine Corps.

Key Insight: Many young people are drawn to military service through a combination of family expectations, societal pressure, and a genuine desire to serve. However, this decision often comes without a full understanding of the implications.

The Reality of Military Life

Steve's experiences in the military were far from the romanticized version often portrayed in recruitment ads. He deployed three times in four years, missing significant milestones in his family life, including the birth of his son. The physical and emotional toll was immense:

• Broken back

• Dislocated shoulders

• Knee injuries

• Sleep apnea

• PTSD and anxiety

"I scream at night. I don't remember my dreams," Steve shares, highlighting the lasting impact of his service.

Challenge: Veterans often struggle with the disconnect between their expectations of military service and the harsh realities they face. This can lead to profound physical and emotional challenges that persist long after their service ends.

A Spiritual Awakening

The turning point in Steve's journey came during a Memorial Day celebration in 2017. As he recited the Pledge of Allegiance, he had a sudden realization:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And I said that first line, I was like, what? In my brain, I'm just like, what in the hell am I doing? What is this garbage I am saying?"

This moment sparked a deep reevaluation of his beliefs and values, leading Steve to question the relationship between his faith and his allegiance to the state.

Key Takeaway: True spiritual growth often requires us to challenge deeply ingrained beliefs and societal norms. Steve's experience shows how a single moment of clarity can set in motion a profound transformation.

Redefining Patriotism and Faith

As Steve delved deeper into the teachings of Jesus, he began to see a stark contrast between Christ's message of peace and love and the violence inherent in military service. He came to a powerful conclusion:

"God does not want your son [or daughter] joining the military”

This realization has led Steve to approach conversations about military service with honesty and a focus on the teachings of Christ. He now sees his role as helping others, especially young people considering or in military service, to understand the full implications of that choice.

Practical Advice: When discussing military service with others, especially young people, Steve aims to:

1. Be honest about the physical and emotional toll of service

2. Encourage reflection on how military service aligns (or doesn't) with one's faith and values

3. Present alternative ways to serve one's community and country

The Ongoing Journey

Steve's transformation is still a work in progress. He grapples with how to live out his newfound convictions in a community deeply entrenched in military culture. His story serves as a powerful reminder that true faith often requires us to challenge societal norms and expectations.

What We Learned About Faith, Patriotism, and Service

Steve's journey from soldier to peacemaker offers valuable lessons for all of us:

1. Question societal norms: Don't accept traditional narratives about patriotism and service without critical examination.

2. Align actions with beliefs: Regularly evaluate whether your actions truly reflect your core values and faith.

3. Embrace transformation: Be open to changing long-held beliefs when confronted with new insights or spiritual growth.

4. Share your story: Your experiences, even (or especially) the challenging ones, can help others navigate their own journeys.

Steve's story challenges us to reconsider what it truly means to serve God and our fellow humans. It reminds us that sometimes, the most patriotic act is to question and challenge the status quo in pursuit of a more peaceful, Christ-centered world.

Are you ready to reevaluate your own beliefs about patriotism, service, and faith? Listen to the full episode to dive deeper into Steve's transformative journey and discover how it might inspire changes in your own life.

Episode Timestamps:

(0:53) Steve's background and military service

• Family history of military service

• Influence of 9/11 on Steve's decision to join the military

• Multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan

(5:20) Steve's religious background and conversion

• Raised with mixed Catholic and Christian Science influences

• Became a Christian through his wife's influence

(7:27) Steve's military career and deployments

• Three tours in four years as intelligence personnel

• Experiences in combat and military operations

• Reference to Generation Kill (HBO Series)

(11:48) Steve's awakening to the issues with military service

• Realization during a Memorial Day celebration in 2017

• Recognition of the American flag as a "golden calf"

(14:09) Discussion on current military recruitment challenges

• Declining recruitment numbers and possible reasons

• Steve's perspective on the lack of active conflicts

(21:23) Steve's struggle with past actions and beliefs

• Grappling with the idea that military service wasn't God's will

• Impact on mental health and PTSD

• Reference to 1st Samuel 8 (Bible Verse)

(29:13) Steve's family life and the impact of military service

• Missing his son's birth during deployment

• Challenges in reconnecting with family after long absences

(42:52) Conversations with others about military service

• Approach to discussing military realities with potential recruits

• Balancing honesty about hardships with respect for beliefs

(50:36) Steve's evolving perspective on patriotism and symbolism

• Discomfort with excessive flag displays and national anthems

• Recognizing the brainwashing aspect of patriotic rituals

• Blue Angels are still cool though

(59:36) Conclusion and future plans

• Encouragement for Steve to start writing about his experiences

• Potential for future discussions on the podcast.

---

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121. Israel of the Bible vs Today's Nation State Waging Genocide in Gaza and How to Get Back to Jesus with Grace Batchoun

About this Episode

Is the world turning a blind eye to the plight of Palestinians? Grace Batchoun, a Christian and Co-founder of Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East, joins Craig for a deeply personal conversation about the ongoing Occupation of the Palestinian people and genocide in Gaza. Grace shares her journey as a Palestinian Christian and highlights the dire situation in Gaza, challenging the narrative of Israel's self-defense. 

Grace and Craig emphasize the need for Christians to align with the teachings of Jesus by advocating for peace and justice over death and destruction. Grace deconstructs the ongoing expansion of settlements, which defy international law and United Nations resolutions. How does this impact the lives of those in the region? The conversation unpacks the complexities of everyday life brought on by the Israeli Occupation of Palestinians, urging listeners to reconsider their perspectives and recognize the humanity of Palestinians. 

The current humanitarian crisis and genocide in Gaza is another focal point. The severe conditions caused by Israeli blockades and refusal to work toward a ceasefire agreement—continuing the unending starvation, destroyed infrastructure, and families in distress. What does this mean for the people living there, and how can the international community respond?

Craig and Grace also examine the role of evangelical Christian support for Israel. Does this stance align with the teachings of Jesus on peace and justice, or does it contradict them? Through personal stories and historical context, this episode offers a Palestinian perspective on displacement and life under occupation.

Finally, the discussion sheds light on the broader implications of Israel's actions on international law and human rights. How do these actions measure up against the conventions established after World War II? Listen to this episode of the Bad Roman Podcast and join the conversation online as we navigate these challenging topics, encouraging listeners to reflect on justice, peace, and the power of global solidarity.

Learn More about Palestine:

Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Addressing the Gaza Crisis

• Craig expresses concern over the escalating situation in Gaza

• mainstream narrative that frames Israel as merely defending itself against terrorism.

(2:07) Grace Batchoun’s Background

• Grace shares her family's history as Palestinian refugees and her journey to Canada.

• Her parents were expelled from Palestine in 1948, leading to a life of displacement and eventual settlement in Canada.

• Grace discusses her Christian faith, which she embraced through InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and her active role in church ministries.

(4:09) Awakening to Activism

• Grace recounts a pivotal moment in 2002 that shifted her focus from personal life to activism, following a tragic incident in Jenin.

• The story of Jamal Fayid a paraplegic man crushed by an Israeli tank sparked her involvement in humanitarian efforts.

• This incident led to her collaboration with World Vision and the founding of Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East.

(6:41) Humanitarian vs. Occupation Crisis

• Grace emphasizes the need to address the root cause of the conflict: the occupation.

• She argues that the issue is not merely humanitarian but deeply political, rooted in military oppression and land colonization.

• The ongoing occupation perpetuates suffering and prevents any lasting peace or resolution.

(9:07) Misinterpretations Among Christians

• Common misinterpretation among Christians regarding Israel as a nation state versus a biblical concept.

• Grace and Craig stress the importance of understanding the biblical context, where Israel is seen as a spiritual entity rather than a modern nation state.

• Confusion among Christians who equate biblical Israel with the current political state.

(12:12) The Reality of Gaza

• Grace provides stark statistics on the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, including the destruction of infrastructure and the high number of casualties, particularly among women and children.

• Gaza as one of the most densely populated areas, suffering from severe shortages of basic necessities.

• The blockade and military actions have led to a dire humanitarian situation, with widespread destruction and loss of life.

(16:30) Genocide or Defense?

• The actions of Israel meet the definition of genocide.

• international legal definitions of genocide and how they apply to the current situation.

• Challenges the narrative that frames Israel's actions as self-defense, highlighting the disproportionate impact on civilians.

(19:01) Personal Stories and Historical Context

• Grace shares her family's displacement and the broader historical context of Palestinian expulsion and land loss.

• She recounts her family's experiences of being expelled from their home and the ongoing struggle for recognition and rights.

• The historical context of the 1948 Nakba and subsequent conflicts is discussed to provide a deeper understanding of the current situation.

(25:56) The Ongoing Occupation

• Grace details the continued expansion of Israeli settlements and the impact on Palestinian lives, drawing parallels to historical injustices.

• systematic displacement of Palestinians and the appropriation of their land for settlements.

• legal and ethical implications of the occupation and the international community's response.

(33:07) Misconceptions About Hamas

• Both speakers clarify that their stance is not in support of Hamas but rather in defense of human rights and international law.

• a common misconception that criticism of Israel equates to support for Hamas.

• The focus is on advocating for the rights and dignity of all people, regardless of political affiliations.

(36:09) International Response and U.S. Influence

• Grace discusses the global response to the conflict and the significant role of U.S. support for Israel, which she argues hinders peace efforts.

• The influence of U.S. foreign policy and military aid in perpetuating the conflict is examined.

• Grace calls for reevaluating international support and a push for genuine peace initiatives.

(41:32) The Role of Christians and the Church

• Craig and Grace critique the church's role in perpetuating misconceptions and call for a return to Jesus' teachings, focusing on peace and justice.

• They discuss the responsibility of Christians to challenge unjust systems and advocate for the oppressed.

• need for the church to be a voice for peace and reconciliation

(48:22) Call to Action

• Grace urges Christians to advocate for peace and justice, emphasizing the need for awareness and action against the ongoing occupation and humanitarian crisis.

• She calls for a collective effort to educate and mobilize communities to support human rights.

• The importance of speaking out and taking a stand against injustice is highlighted as a core Christian value.

(54:14) Personal Transformation and Advocacy

• Grace reflects on her journey from personal focus to activism, highlighting the importance of individual action in the face of global issues.

• She shares her experiences of overcoming apathy and becoming a vocal advocate for justice.

• The transformative power of personal stories and the impact of grassroots activism 

(1:02:11) Closing Thoughts

• Craig and Grace conclude with a call for continued advocacy and awareness, stressing the importance of speaking out against injustice.

• They encourage listeners to educate themselves and others about the realities of the conflict.

• The episode ends with a reminder of the power of collective action and the potential for change.

---

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114. Who Would Jesus Bomb? Questioning War Through Song with Jordan Smart

About this Episode

Musician Jordan Smart shares his journey from growing up in a religious household in Ohio to becoming a touring musician. He discusses his early disillusionment with the church, his deep connection to music, and how punk rock influenced his worldview. The conversation centers around Jordan's song "Who Would Jesus Bomb?", which caught Craig's attention and led to this discussion. Jordan explains that while he isn't vocally anti-war, his frustrations with how religious traditions can be manipulated for propaganda inspired him to write the song.

Jordan reflects, "I was raised to believe Jesus loves everyone, but seeing how that message gets twisted to justify violence really pushed me to write this song." The episode delves into the troubling support for war among Christians, the manipulation by governments, and the importance of compassion and humanity. Jordan also highlights his project, Songs Not Bombs, which raises funds for Palestinian children.

Craig and Jordan discuss poignant lines from the song, such as, "Would Jesus bomb the atheist, the Muslim, or the Jew?" and "Would you still believe in Jesus if you found out he was brown?" These lines challenge listeners to reconsider their views on war, politics, and faith. This episode is a thought-provoking listen for anyone interested in these critical issues.

Connect with Jordan Smart:

• Jordan Smart Music on Instagram

• Songs Not Bombs on Bandcamp - All Proceeds Go to Palestine

• Songs Not Bombs on Instagram

Episode Timestamps:

Timestamps:

(00:45) Jordan's Background

• Jordan shares his upbringing in Ohio and his religious family background

• His journey with music, starting from a young age

• Background with Christianity and anarchy

(02:00) Music as a Form of Protest

• Discussion on Jordan's project "Songs Not Bombs"

• Efforts to raise funds for the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund (PCRF)

• The impact of music in processing and responding to world events

• Anti-War Sentiments

• Jordan's long-standing anti-war beliefs were influenced by punk rock

• Reflections on the current state of global conflicts

(7:27) The Power of Music

• Craig and Jordan discuss the emotional impact of music

• Music as a medium to express complex feelings and ideas

• The ability of music to resonate with diverse audiences

(9:40) Christianity and War

• The troubling support for the war among some Christians

• The disconnect between Jesus' teachings and modern Christian behavior

• Reflections on the pro-war stance of certain Christian groups

(11:59) Generational Perspectives

• The younger generation's growing disillusionment with the current system

• The potential for the younger generation to drive change

• The impact of social media and 24-hour news cycles on youth

• Political Disillusionment

• Failures of both major political parties in the U.S.

• The need for a new approach to governance and societal issues

• Personal experiences with political disillusionment

(16:45) Personal and Political Pushback to Jordan’s Song “Who Would Jesus Bomb?”

• Jordan shares experiences with pushback from friends and family

• The challenges of speaking out on controversial issues

• The importance of staying true to one's beliefs.

(20:51) Echo Chambers and Authenticity

• The importance of breaking out of echo chambers

• Staying authentic and true to one's message

• The impact of authenticity on audience engagement

(24:26) The Role of the Military

• Discussion on military recruitment and its implications

• The true threats to freedom and liberty

• Reflections on the U.S. military's global impact

(30:43) Compassion and Humanity

• Emphasizing the need for compassion towards all people

• The interconnected nature of various social justice issues

• The role of compassion in creating a better world.

34:59 Challenging Beliefs

• Jordan's song as a tool to challenge deeply held beliefs

• The importance of questioning and re-evaluating one's views

• The impact of music in provoking thought and discussion

(39:40) Personal Journeys

• Craig shares his journey from neoconservatism to Christian anarchism

• The influence of early church writings on his views

• The role of personal experiences in shaping beliefs

(43:17) The Influence of Social Media

• The role of social media in shaping public opinion

• The dangers of misinformation and propaganda

• The impact of social media on political and social views

(47:27) Interconnected Issues

• The interconnected nature of various social justice issues

• The importance of addressing these issues collectively

• The role of music and activism in highlighting these connections.

(52:19) Political Theater

• The manipulation of public opinion by the ultra-wealthy ruling class

• The need for unity among the oppressed.

• The impact of political theater on societal divisions

(57:52) Blonde Hair and Blue Eyes: Jesus and Race

• The significance of recognizing Jesus' true background

• The implications of Jesus' ethnicity for modern Christianity

• The importance of challenging racial stereotypes in religious contexts.

(1:00:13) Encouragement and Support

• Jordan shares the overwhelming support he has received for his music

• The importance of continuing to speak out on important issues

• Reflections on the impact of his song "Who Would Jesus Bomb?"

(1:03:21) Final Thoughts

• Craig encourages Jordan to keep leaning into his message

• The importance of making a difference through music and activism

• Reflections on the need for boldness and authenticity in advocacy.

---

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106. Jesus Has No Flag with Against All Flags Podcast Team

About this Episode

In this episode of the Bad Roman Podcast, host Craig Harguess welcomes Anthony, Nathan, and Wyatt from the Against All Flags podcast. Together, they navigate the turbulent waters of Christian Anarchy, holding steadfast to the conviction of 'No King but Christ.' The episode reveals the transformative power of a Christcentric anarchist viewpoint, as they share heartfelt stories about moving beyond traditional politics and organized religion, while keeping Jesus's teachings at the forefront.

They address the inner turmoil Christians often experience when their obligations to the state appear to conflict with their spiritual convictions. The discussion delves into the historical stances of the early church on nonviolence and examines how contemporary believers reconcile these seemingly contrary paths. 

Personal anecdotes, biblical reflections on flawed earthly rulers, and the unshakable sovereignty of Jesus are woven throughout the narrative, emphasizing the rallying cry 'No king but Christ.' The societal implications of standing against national symbols, such as the choice to stand or sit during the national anthem, are also tackled. 

Craig and his guests reflect on the journey of their respective podcasts, from inception to a firm dedication to merging Christian insights with issues of political culture. They celebrate the mission to guide listeners towards a deep, nonviolent faith that rejects the entanglements of statism and violence, acknowledging the global Christian community, the reach of podcasts, and inspirations like Stephen Rose from AnarchoChristian.

Connect with our guests:

• Follow their Podcast: Against All Flags

• Nathan

  • Instagram: @against_all_flags_pod

• Anthony 

  • Instagrams: @against_all_flags_boomer

    @beltfed_bandit

•  Wyatt

  •  @wyatt_j_d_

Episode Timestamps:

Timestamps:

01:08 Exploring Anarchy Through Fiction

•  Introduction to Joseph Macolino, inspired by Tolkien and Orwell.

• Creation of the fictional universe Evorath, developed from high school to college.

• Joseph's trilogy explores themes of questioning government authority and discovering Christian principles.

12:35 Spreading Christian Anarchy Through Fiction

• The intersection of fiction and Christian anarchism is highlighted.

• Influence of various texts, maintaining a critical perspective.

• Story arc in fantasy series depicts the transition from monarchy to an anarchist society, paralleling historical movements.

• Aim to challenge preconceptions and promote Christian anarchism through storytelling.

19:59 Discussing Writing, Influence, and Christianity

• Focus on Evorath's world-building, where humans are divinely created.

• Discussion on media influence and personal experiences of non-conformity.

• Importance of writers in highlighting societal propaganda and Christian resistance.

• Emphasis on living according to Jesus' teachings despite potential opposition.

28:22 God Is Strategic

• A personal anecdote about a significant encounter and the concept of divine timing.

• Reflection on the creative process and progress in writing projects.

• Introduction of the 'Bad Woman Project' and a call for support.

• Teaser for the content of upcoming books without giving away specifics.

31:46 Expanding on Book Two Characters

• Insight into Averath's characters, including the villain Yazook Stahl.

• Exploration of shapeshifter species and character development.

• Themes of power, corruption, and societal improvement are examined through character arcs.

39:46 Fantasy Series and Libertarian Ideology

• Introduction of diverse races and characters in the third book.

• Characters question tribal loyalties, leading to the formation of a new community.

• Discussion on societal ideals, comparing the fictional society to voluntarism.

• Upcoming books to delve into the complexities of a society striving for harmony post-trilogy.

---

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100. Christian Ethics and Stateless Societies: The Anarchist Approach of the Perry Family

In the 100th episode of the podcast, host Craig Harguess is joined by guests Sarah and Jeff Perry from Voluntaryism in Action for a captivating exploration into the confluence of Christian values and the philosophy of anarchy. This milestone episode delves into the nuances of Christian Anarchism and Voluntarism, examining the personal metamorphoses that steer individuals away from traditional political paradigms toward a life of voluntary statelessness underpinned by faith. 

Throughout the episode, Sarah and Jeff Perry share the hurdles encountered in seeking a like-minded community and the challenges a society deeply ingrained with state-oriented ideologies poses. They shed light on the essence of fellowship and kinship, even in the digital sphere, for those who perceive themselves as misfits in a world unprepared for such radical ideas. The conversation also touches on the difficulty of communicating complex ideas over social media and the importance of giving people grace and meeting them where they are, as they were once in a similar position. The group emphasizes that the people they may joke about now were once reflections of their past selves, highlighting the transformative journey that led them to their current ideological stance. 

Taking an unexpected detour, the discussion ventures into the rustic world of homesteading, contrasting the merits of duck and chicken eggs and unpacking the symbolism it holds for Christian anarchists. This segment uncovers the layers of self-reliance and philosophical maturation, accompanied by a narrative of Jeff’s military service and how he underwent a profound ideological shift towards anarchism. 

The episode critically addresses the contentious interpretation of Romans 13 from an anarchist perspective, scrutinizing the alignment—or lack thereof—between modern democratic establishments and the teachings of Jesus. The discourse celebrates the significance of genuine leadership as demonstrated by Jesus, compared to the forceful rule often exhibited by earthly authorities. 

The discussion also spotlights the impactful initiatives of Voluntaryism in Action, emphasizing the human connections nurtured through voluntary charity. This starkly contrasts the impersonal touch of institutionalized aid, underscoring the human and spiritual dimensions of giving.

 Listeners are treated to a blend of humor, social commentary, and personal anecdotes that exemplify the intertwining of Christianity's core tenets with the principles of voluntaryism. As the 100th episode of the podcast, this thought-provoking journey offers an inspiring vision of community, support, and voluntary action shaped by love, grace, understanding, and Christian values.

Connect with the Perrys:

Website

Podcast: Voluntary View on Spotify, iTunes, Youtube

Key Moments:

00:02 Exploring Christian Anarchism and Voluntaryism

• Introduction to the intersection of Christianity and statelessness.

• Personal journeys from conventional politics to stateless existence based on Christian values.

• Importance of community, even if primarily online.

01:11 The Reach of the Bad Roman

• Discussion on the international reach of the podcast.

• Personal reflections on discovering Christian Anarchy.

• Surprise at finding a community with similar beliefs.

09:08 Duck Eggs and Freshly Laid Eggs

• Discussion on homesteading, duck vs. chicken eggs.

• Nutritional content and taste comparison.

• Personal anecdotes about self-sufficiency and philosophical evolution.

15:22 - Military Transition to Anarchism & Non-Judgmental Dialogue

• A former military medical officer's ideological shift towards anarchism.

• Impact of literature and libertarian thought on worldview.

• Emphasis on non-judgmental engagement within the anarchist community.

23:13 Christian Anarchism and the Bad Project

• Craig's journey from neoconservatism to Christian anarchism.

• Misconceptions about Christian Anarchy clarified.

• Sharing personal revelations about faith and statelessness.

26:41 Facebook Thread Drama and Miscommunication

• Addressing miscommunication and drama in a Facebook thread.

• Emphasis on understanding different perspectives within anarchism.

30:05 Understanding Anarchy and Romans 13 (11 Minutes)

• Interpretation of Romans 13 in the context of Christian anarchy.

• Biblical examples of resistance to secular authorities.

• Addressing objections related to submission to governing authorities.

33:57 Not Voting and Complaining About Government

• Discussion on Craig's decision not to vote and its implications.

• The counterintuitive nature of the argument that non-voters cannot complain.

38:41 Voluntarism and Anarchy

• Explanation of voluntarism as a subset of anarchy.

• Voluntarism focuses on voluntary interactions without coercion.

41:22 Religion, Government, and Accountability

• Differences between authority figures and authoritarianism.

• Critique of representative democracy and accountability.

• Reflection on the role of law enforcement and early church teachings.

49:57 Christian Anarchism and Voluntaryism Action

• Exploration of how Voluntaryism in Action embodies Christian Anarchist principles.

• Discussion on the organization's initiatives and community impact.

• Tension between Christianity and statism in church settings.

• Discomfort with nationalistic practices in worship.

• Early Christian teachings versus modern interpretations post-Constantine.

55:42 Voluntaryism

• Origins and evolution of a charitable organization, Voluntaryism in Action.

• Challenges and misconceptions surrounding non-profit work.

• Importance of voluntary giving and the impact of government programs on charity.

57:07 Obtaining & Maintaining 501(c)3 Status

• The process and challenges of obtaining 501(c)3 status for the organization.

• Insights into maintaining non-profit status and its importance.

01:04:18 Voluntaryism in Action

• Celebration of the work and achievements of Voluntaryism in Action.

• Personal anecdotes that underscore the organization's ethos.

01:09:36 Discussion on Voluntaryism in Action

• Impactful work of Voluntaryism in Action aligned with Christian values.

• Encouragement for listener support through donations or involvement.

• Challenges of social media censorship.

01:11:39 Twitter Campaigns and Content Restrictions

• Addressing the impact of content restrictions on social media campaigns.

• The organization's approach to creating and sharing provocative content.

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99. God's Country or Jesus’s Kingdom? Navigating the Nexus of Nationalism and Faith in America

Could the intertwining of faith and state authority be warping the very soul of Christianity? Unlock the complexities of Christian nationalism as we sit down for a round table to dissect the idolatrous juxtaposition of faith and governance. This episode dissects the potential hazards of conflating faith with state authority and how this can distort genuine religious practice and the core tenets of Christianity itself.

Join your host, Craig Harguess, along with friends of the show Chris Polk, Cody Cook, Paul Parayil, and Darren Freidinger, who help us peel back the layers of entanglement to reveal the true call of Faith. Witness a bold examination of Christian nationalism's historical claims and current implications in the realm of politics and social justice. 

As echoes of January 6th reverberate through the national consciousness, we scrutinize its portrayal as a Christian nationalist insurrection and the subsequent impact on political landscapes. The breach, the media's narrative, and the political fallout are dissected with a critical lens, contrasting the motives behind these actions with the broader implications for American society. We confront the seductive pull of cultural identity and the struggle to prioritize important global issues over trivial cultural squabbles. 

Through this dialogue, we strive to foster a deeper understanding of how a desire for a 'Christian nation' impacts both the spiritual body of Christ and our broader societal fabric. With a laid-back yet critical approach, we discuss the importance of curiosity and questioning in religious communities, advocating for meaningful action against social injustices rather than getting lost in cultural distractions. The panel lays out a thought-provoking journey through the contradictions of Christian nationalism, inviting you to reflect, question, and expand your understanding of faith in the public square.

The digital age has transformed the battleground of ideas, and we explore the challenges of engaging in meaningful discourse on social media amid generational technology. As we draw to a close, we advocate for deeper awareness and action, urging listeners not to be sidetracked by fleeting controversies but to remain steadfast in the pursuit of no king but Christ. Tune in for a thought-provoking journey through the contradictions and complexities of Christian nationalism.

Connect with Cody Cook:

• Libertarian Christian Insitute

• Podcast - Cantus Firmus

• Book - What Belongs to Caesar

• Listen to episode 89, Navigating Revivals in Christianity with Cody Cook

Connect with Chris Polk:

• Blue Ribbon Podcast

• Blue Ribbon Logistics

• Tik Tok

• Listen to More Bad Roman Episodes with Chris Polk:

  • Lessons from the Trucking Industry with Chris Polk, EP 77

  • Your Rights with Chris Polk & Jacob Daniel, EP 38

  • Home School: 2021 Year-End Round Table, EP 47

Connect with Paul Parayil:

• Paul Varkey Parayil on Facebook

Key Moments:

01:20 Christian Nationalism and Its Contradictions

• Christianity Today Article: What Is Christian Nationalism?

• Critiqued for distorting religious practice and undermining Christian principles.

• Enforcement of state authority is a key concern.

05:11 Christian Nationalism and the New Covenant

• Inconsistencies with Jesus' teachings are highlighted.

• Cherry-picking from the Old Testament discussed with guest Cody Cook.

15:20 Christian Nationalism and State Role

• Examination of Christian nationalism and its contrast with a kingdom culture mindset.

• Emphasis on the spiritual body of Christ over earthly rulers.

27:52 The Impact of Christian Nationalism

• Growth of the church during persecution discussed.

• Detachment from state affairs, detrimental effects, and pitfalls of striving for a "Christian nation."

33:13 January 6th and Christian Nationalism Discussion

• Discussion on the Capitol breach on January 6th.

• Examination of Christian nationalism, media portrayal, politicians' response, and intentions vs. implications of actions.

43:54 Exploring Christian Nationalism in Politics

• Aftermath of January 6th discussed.

• Accusations of Christian nationalism, manipulation by agencies, spectrum of ideologies, and complex relationship between American and Christian identities.

58:49 Challenges of Social Media Discourse

• Christian nationalism debates on social media.

• Generational gap in technology use, lack of curiosity in education and religion, and strategy for online discourse.

01:08:32 Christian Nationalism and Cultural Identity

• American democracy's defense of Anglo-Protestant culture discussed.

• Exclusion of Catholics and Orthodox believers, trivial cultural controversies distracting from pressing social injustices.

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96. Christian-Palestinian: Unveiling the Obscured Narrative with Daniel Bannoura

About this Episode

Get ready for an insightful and heart-wrenching journey as we chat with Daniel Benora, a Christian Palestinian, who gives us an inside look into the longstanding conflict between Israel and Palestine. With a direct line to the ground reality, Daniel candidly shares the pain and terror experienced by his friends and family in Gaza due to Israeli attacks. Hear the unfiltered narrative of Palestinians, both Christian and Muslim, who have been overshadowed in the Western world, as we delve into the complexities of this ongoing strife.

Daniel courageously unravels the obscured narrative of Palestinians, both Christian and Muslim, demonstrating the importance of understanding the dynamics of this ongoing strife. How do we stay informed when the Western media narrative leans heavily in favor of one side? The conversation deepens as we probe into the biased portrayal of the Middle East in the media, exposing its racist undertones. Together with Daniel, we dissect the colonial mentality and its aftermath, scrutinizing how it frames the Middle East as backward and violent. We also delve into the implications of Zionism, the British Empire's role in Jewish migration to Palestine, opening up the discussion to the way it's used to justify violence against Palestinians. 

As we draw toward the end of our conversation, we venture into the stormy waters of violence, faith, and pacifism within the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Daniel reveals the inspiring ways Palestinian Christians channel faith into nonviolent resistance against injustice. We wrap up by challenging the misconceptions surrounding God and his people, urging Christians to seek truth, justice, and love over violence and ignorance. 

 Join us as we reveal how the media, the US government, and the Church perpetuate this idea, all the while emphasizing the importance of nuance in understanding this conflict. Here's a chance to challenge your perspectives and possibly transform your understanding of the Israeli-Palestinian plight.

Connect with Daniel:

• Across the Divide Podcast

• Google Docs Resource

• Listen to Daniel on Theology in the Raw

Episode Timestamps:

(00:02) The Israel-Palestine Occupation

Daniel shares the injustice and violence Palestinians have faced, highlighting the terror and pain caused by Israeli attacks on Christian and Muslim Palestinians.

(10:29) Understanding Gaza and Palestinian Identity

Daniel shares his family's 13-generation history in Bethlehem, discussing the plight of Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Palestine.

(14:26) Christian Palestinian Identity and Ignorance

Daniel Benora's Christian Palestinian experience, ignorance and apathy in the West, and the complicity of media and pastors in creating and perpetuating this ignorance are explored.

(18:39) Western Media's Middle East Bias

We examine Orientalism, Palestinian Christians, and the colonial mentality of the Western world to challenge racism in the Middle East.

(27:34) Influence on Israeli-Palestinian Occupation by Politics, Media, Religion

Zionism's history, anti-Semitism, British Empire, violence against Palestinians, media, US government, Church, and justice for Palestinians discussed.

(39:59) Violence and Pacifism in Israeli-Palestinian Occupation

We examine Hamas' motivations, self-defense ideology, Israel's surprise, and faith identity in a violent context.

(53:13) The Palestinian Christian Perspective

Palestinian Christians discuss nonviolent resistance, US imperialism, preferential option for the poor, and the way of the cross.

(58:41) Misrepresentation of God and His People

We question God's representation in war, reject the distinction between Jews and non-Jews, and explore faith, not lineage, for righteousness and God's love.

(01:03:08) Jesus and the Old Testament

Daniel discusses Christ-centered Bible reading, repentance for violence, and researching the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

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95. Was Jesus Palestinian? with Jeffery Stevens

About this Episode

Tune in for an insightful conversation with Jeffrey Stevens, an independent journalist and director of the Azarius Project, as we take a hard look at the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory and the impact it's having on the Christian and other communities within these borders. Hear firsthand about the misinformation circulating among Christian Americans and learn about Jeffrey's own transformation from being pro-Israel to acknowledging the impossibility of supporting both Israel and the sanctity of life simultaneously. 

If you’re one of us, or you’re new here, you should know that there has always been a personal journey at the heart of The Bad Roman Project. It’s been one that's demanded a complete overhaul of previous beliefs. A path paved with discomfort while challenging long-held perceptions and demanding an honest reassessment of Christian values. As always, there's so much more to the story than what's on the surface and what’s important is that we talk about it. 

While mainstream media often skews the reality on the ground, our conversation challenges those narratives and scrutinizes the role of the US and Israeli governments in perpetuating the inhumane policies of the occupation. In this uncompromising discourse, we're asking the hard questions, discussing who gets to define terrorism, examining the treatment of Palestinians (both Muslim and Christian), and unlocking the transformative power of relationships to remedy bias in our perspectives.

But our journey doesn't stop there. In this episode, we're bringing the focus back home, because change starts on your doorstep. We discuss the importance of evangelizing in our own neighborhoods and fostering a personal relationship with Jesus. Be prepared for a lively debate on what Jesus' stance would be of his birthland today and the recognition that the world is indeed larger than just the United States. So, buckle up and come along for an enlightening, perhaps life-altering ride with us. 

Connect with Jeffery:

Catholic Workers Project

Azarias Project

Arab American News

Catholic Wordsmith

Episode Timestamps:

1:05 Correct framing as the illegal Occupation vs. the Israel-Palestine Conflict

• Joe Chadburn Episode

• Importance of independent journalism

• Importance of reframing the language we use to describe a topic

• Unpacking beliefs about Israel in Christian upbringing

• Used to cover Vatican news until 2009 began covering Israel-Palestine 

4:52 Who is Jeffery Stevens?

• Arab American News

• Director of Azarias Project

• Grew up: pro-life, pro-Israel Christian

• Difference between pro-life and anti-abortion

• Blood Brothers Book by Palestinian Catholic Priest, Elias Chacour (Author), David Hazard (Author), James Baker (Foreword) 

• Jesus is Palestinian, not Israeli

• When Bible speaks of Israel it’s referring to Christians not the Israeli government

8:08 Conviction of USA and Israel as the “good guys” against terrorism

• Post-9/11 

• You can respect veterans and still be critical of USA’s imperialism 

• Jesus Christ would not approve of what is happening in the Middle East no matter who is doing it

• Governments can often be found to act more in accordance to the definition of terrorism than those we call the name

• Military bases and proximity to oil reserves

• Syria

• Smedley Butler (Joe Chadburn)

• French Concrete Company sued for assisting ISIS — millions of dollars the US government kept it

• Should Christians care about what is happening in the birthplace of Christianity?

15:16 Where the End of the Earth Begins article on The Catholic Wordsmith

• Acts 1:8

• Popular Christian evangelical verse, we seek to evangelize in frogmen lands and forget to do so in our own neighborhood

• Christians only on Sundays?

• “Jesus would have to cross 15 Israeli checkpoints and a 30-foot wall to get to Bethlehem”

• Americans fail to understand what “occupation” means

• Palestinian Christian population over time and occupation’s influence on their decline

• Israeli Occupation forces and desire for all Jewish state, turning Al_Asqua Mosque into a temple

• Bible bans Jews from 3rd Temple

• Far-right drive

• Texas cows flown to Israel

28:10 Who is funding Israel?

• Palestine of all religions suffer at the hands of this funding under an occupation

• Trump and Israel

33:44 Jenin [on] the Fourth from Arab American News

• West Bank, Refugee Camps

• “Terrorist hot-spot” vs. resistance fighters and patriots

• Ron Paul

• Blowback

• Boston Tea Party was not peaceful

• The American Revolution

• Were we better off before?

• Jesus’s disciples

• Writing about Old Testament and current affairs

• Azarias Project

• Book of Tobit, Archangel Raphael

48:51 The World is Bigger than the USA

• Yemen and Saudi 

• Saudi Golf Tour

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90. Ideologies, Freedom & Critical Thinking with Mat and Phil from the Way of Life Podcast

About this Episode

Get ready for an enlightening journey with Mat and Phil from the Way of Life Podcast, as we delve into pressing topics that shape our everyday lives. Mat shares his background of growing up in Australia, being heavily involved in church, and pursuing pastoral ministry, while Phil gives an insight into his life as an underground coal miner and his interest in video production. The conversation also dive into the importance of meeting people where they are and encouraging them to think critically about what they hear. 

In our current global climate, how can we ignore the ideological shifts happening all around us? Mat and Phil take us on a fascinating journey, exploring the transformation of the understanding of harm in the progressive movement and its impact on politics in the U.S. and Australia. We probe into the concept of democracy, examining its potential pitfalls, and discuss whether sources of information like TikTok are skewing our perception of harm. 

But we don’t stop there. Our conversation meanders into the realm of military alliances, political apathy, and the intertwining of governmental and religious institutions. We scrutinize the US-Australia military alliance, ponder the implications of an increasingly intrusive government, and discuss the possibility of a U.S. government collapse. Are our understandings of freedom without boundaries leading us astray? 

In the final part of our discussion, we explore how the concept of freedom without boundaries can lead to a herd mentality and discuss the necessity of teaching people to think independently. We also assess the intertwining of church and state in the United States and how this contrasts with the Australian church scene. Wrapping up, we share the mission of the Way of Life podcast – equipping people to think critically and fostering a space for open dialogue. So, buckle up and prepare to see the world through a unique lens!

Connect with Mat and Phil:

Facebook Way of Life Podcast

Youtube Way of Life Podcast

Spotify Way of Life Podcast

Apple Way of Life Podcast

Episode Timestamps:

01:39 Mat’s Background

• Christian 

• drummer

• Works with Youth at Church now

• Meeting people where they’re at

05:33 Phil’s Background

• Underground coal miner

• Video producer

• Joined ministry at 13

• Started a podcast with Mat

09:25 Leaving Mainstream Media for Alternative Sources

• Getting information from podcasts

• Media Landscape in Australia

• Liberal vs. labor parties

• Democracy and tyranny

• Does the government ensure peace?

15:14 Shifting Definition of Harm among generations

• Physical harm vs. psychological harm 

• Tik Tok, Podcasts, Youtube raising a generation

• Role of feedback in forming ideas/beliefs

• In such polarized times people are afraid to say something doesn’t make sense

• The middle has been eroded

• Idiocracy (2006)

25:19 Australian and US Government Alliance

• American government is entertainment for Austrsilians

• Click-bait

• Gary Johnson

• Democrats being anti-war in the past

• Yemen and Saudis

• Jesus worked towards peace and the government alway does harm

• Church is outsourcing charity to the state

• Australians don’t like to talk about government as openly as Americans

• Christian identity is wrapped up in political identity in from the Australian point of view

• Fine in australia for enrolling to vote and not submitting ballot sheet

• “Donkey vote”

• Crocodile Dundee

• Australians a generally trusting

• Government was less invasive

• John Anderson

• Small government vs. what exist today

• Can we go back?

• Patriot Act

• US involvement with Ukraine

• Oil Protectors of America

• Poppy fields in Afghanistan 

• Peter Zhan

• US’s role in global trade route “protection”

45:37 How Australian churches Interact with Government

• Politics does not make it into the pulpit

• Some Christian lobbyist groups

50:51 Way of Life Podcast

• post-Christian nation

• Freedom without boundary

• Never give more than three options in retail

• Crippled by information young people go with the herd

• Being very passionate about something you have not thought very hard on

• John 14:6

• Doing show live because Q&A is big portion of the show

• Learning to disagree with others in a healthy way

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75. Finding Common Ground Between Christian and Secular Anarchists with Alan Mosley

About this Episode

Craig is joined by Alan Mosley, the host of “It’s Too Late with Alan Mosley”, historian and libertarian writer, for a friendly discussion about what Alan, an atheist and anarchist, has in common with Christian anarchists. They work through the anarchist catchphrase, “No rulers, no masters, no gods”, exploring its meaning and conclude that Christian and secular anarchists can, and indeed should, be allies in liberty. 

Alan could school some Christians in the teachings of Jesus, especially concerning holding an anti-war stance, the application of the non-aggression principle and disdain for institutional structures. The way Alan sees it, the church has been conquered by the state. Churches fly the American flag and teach the Christian voting block to hate their neighbors and enemies, in direct contrast to the teachings of Jesus. The Bible is full of revolutionary thoughts that, if applied, should transform societies just as they have in the past. 

Craig and Alan discuss everything from dropping bombs to end WWII, support for troops and how to improve their psychological well-being, judging the morality of historical characters from past eras, and things that make the church unappealing to unbelievers. Yet, they continuously come back to the need to speak the truth about all of these things courageously. 

Alan Mosley:

YouTube: It’s Too Late with Alan Mosley

Facebook: It’s Too Late with Alan Mosley

Twitter: It’s Too Late with Alan Mosley

Apple Podcast: It’s Too Late with Alan Mosley

Article: Ike and Leahy Were Right: The Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki Were Wrong

Episode Timestamps:

1:38 – Who is Alan Mosley?

• Podcast host

• Jazz musician

• Historian

• Writer

3:22 – What common grounds do atheists and Christian anarchists have?

• Anti-war

• Not interested in playing politics with war

• WWII and the atomic bomb

• Christian anarchists and libertarians are good on this topic

• The early church were pacifists and anti-war

• Christians should not defend war

• Christians should opt out until the government receivess no support for war

• We need to raise children on principles of non-aggression so they don’t join the military

• These need to be spoken of rather than ignored

• Police officers are trained in an us-versus-them mentality

• Churches teach this way too

• That was not in the teachings of Christ

• Supporting the troops is talking about the pressures that face them when they come home

• High suicide rates

• Participating in drone bombing pre-schools

• Improving their psychological well-being

• Stopping children from entering the recruiting offices

• Just following orders is not a good excuse

• It enables the bad ideas of angry rich men in DC to happen

25:27 - The state has conquered churches

• That’s what the American flag on the stage means

• The flag is a rival of Christ

• The state manipulates people through the state

• Turning you against your neighbor and enemy

• Making people afraid of the other team

• Creating a voting block

• Christians should be suspicious of the state; it killed Jesus

30:14 – Comparing morality through the ages

• It’s easy to look back and assume moral superiority over the founding fathers over their non-politically correct actions

• If you look at the state of the world now compared to earlier times, scripture was full of revolutionary ideas

• Live by the sword, die by the sword

• Might makes right was the ethos of humanities history

• The Bible is full of transformational thoughts

• Christian history is full of people giving their lives to defend their faith

• But these days, people won’t talk about their beliefs in case they are ostracized

34:55 – What makes the church unattractive to unbelievers?

• Not representing Jesus correctly

• Endorsing war and the state

• Not helping the poor and widows

• Unequivocal support for Israel’s war atrocities makes the church unappealing

• Warmongers in Israel don’t care about you even though your taxes pay their way

42:15 – The roots of liberty

• Anarchy is the root of liberty

• Christ made everyone with liberty

• Can anarchists serve Christ?

• More atheists are statists

• Alan says no enforced rulers, no enforced masters, no enforced gods

• True Christians are not for theocratic fascists

• Adding enforced to the catchphrase makes more sense

• Bible-thumping church-goers are insufferable

• Christian anarchists and secular anarchists should be allies in liberty

• Jesus was the OG anarchist

• Be charitable in attempting to understand your opponent’s worldview

• It helps build a community

• We should not be forced into relationships that we do not want to be a part of either

• Pick your battles

• Find the like-minded remnant

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70. Pawns of the Military-Industrial Complex with Jamie Cain

About this Episode

Jamie Cain, host of the Liberty Uninterrupted podcast, joins Craig to discuss the military-industrial complex as someone who lived as its pawn. Despite his father’s warning that he would not be fighting for freedom but rather for lobbyists and bankers, at 17 years old, liberty-loving Jamie joined the military. A few years later, Jamie left the military out of his love of liberty, having learned that war is a racket. Since then, he has had some success talking young people out of joining the military by exploring their reasoning for doing so and turning their patriotic logic on its head. Other times, shocking young people by being brutally honest is the only way, but Jamie is not scared of awkward conversations. 

With Craig equally likely to blow up comfortable public narratives, these two could write the book on conversations guaranteed to ruin Thanksgiving dinner! In this episode, they share their views on the military-industrial complex, its propaganda, recruiting and indoctrination techniques. The Military-Industrial Complex is the murdering wing of the state. It indoctrinates and enslaves young Americans as pawns in wars for the financial gain of special interest groups and politicians. 

Craig and Jamie envision a world where America’s competitors act the way America has, policing the world in the name of democracy, bombing critical infrastructure and setting up occupying forces and military bases. Of course, if anyone tried it, Americans would be rightfully angry. With military recruitment figures at crisis levels, maybe after 20 years of illegal wars it is time to bring the troops home.

Connect with Jamie:

Website

• Instagram

• Twitter

• Facebook

• Practical Christology

• TikTok

Liberty Uninterrupted podcast on:

• Apple

• Spotify

• YouTube

Episode Timestamps:

2:23 – Who is Jamie Cain?

• Podcast host at Liberty Uninterrupted 

• Voluntaryist with a libertarian podcast

• Joined the military at 17 years old

• War is a Racket – Major General Smedley Butler

• Dad’s advice at the start of his military career:

  • Remember that you are not fighting for freedom

• Wanted to join the army since he was seven years old

• Rich people all over the world send the poor to fight their wars

  • After getting rich from taxes

  • Their children do not join the military

9:15 – Why shouldn’t people join the military?

• The praise that military men receive helps keep people signing up

• Financial benefits help too

• More veterans have committed suicide than soldiers died in Afghanistan

• Military men believe they are doing the right thing

• Shaming soldiers is not going to change their mind

  • They don’t sign up to fight proxy wars

    • Or to support the Military-Industrial Complex

    • Or to be used as war game pawns

• Shame the Military-Industrial Complex, not the people involved

  • They don’t get to choose the jobs they do

    • End up in military prison if they refuse a job

• Soldiers sign a contract to become the state’s property

  • Even state military guards are misused

• During covid, citizen’s liberties were restricted but no help came from the military

• After six years, Jamie realized he had been lied to

  • Clung to protecting his buddies

• Jamie was woken up by Ron Paul in 2012 Presidential Election speeches

  • Said invading Iraq and Afghanistan was wrong

  • Talked about why the Middle East hated Americans

  • Read The Revolution: A Manifesto – Ron Paul

• Ron Paul’s “Giuliani Moment”

• We should write a book on how to ruin Thanksgiving dinner

• The United States Government has killed a holocaust worth of people

• The Middle East are angry because we are occupying their land

  • Children dying

    • Bombing hospitals

    • Bombing water supplies

    • Bombing weddings

  • Imposing sanctions

• We are not a “Christian Nation.”

  • Anarchism is what Jesus would do

• What would happen if other nations treated Americans the way we treat the Middle East?

  • We would not remain peaceful

• The US made Al-Qaeda recruitment easy through:

  • Drone strikes

  • Dropping bombs

  • Killing families

19:54 – Everyone has a man crush on Ron Paul

• Christians don’t vote

• Even Ron Paul, who:

  • Used the platform honorably

  • Woke many people up

  • Influenced culture

  • Used the system against itself

• If Ron Paul couldn’t change the system, no one can

• Anarchists don’t vote

• The state and military are backed by Satan

• Power corrupts even the best of intentions

  • Be it political or military

• Jamie’s dad’s speech annoyed him

  • But it helped him to understand Ron Paul’s words

  • Left him open to the truth

38:30 - Should we pull the troops back and simply defend the US?

• No one is going to come and kill Americans

  • There are 400 million guns in the US

• Taking guns from everyone does not make sense

  • More money and power will go to the state

  • Gun control is a means of controlling people

• Other countries have no interest in attacking the US

  • There is no advantage to doing so

    • Scott Horton and anitwar.com

• We can’t put military bases across the world without upsetting some people

  • There is no such thing as peacekeeping soldiers

  • They appear as an occupying force

• Our government is our biggest threat

  • China isn’t taking half my pay

  • China is not taking our guns away

  • China is not killing my neighbour for smoking weed

• Those who don’t vote have the right to complain about who is in power

  • Voters give power to the system through participation

  • They love it when their side is in control but not when the opposition has power

• Murray Rothbard – For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto

48:55 – Talking young people out of joining the military

• Jamie meets a lot of young people

  • They ask him for advice regarding joining the military

  • He asks them, “Why do you want to join the military?”

    • Establishes their reasoning

  • Often they say it because they feel they should

    • This is due to propaganda

  • Follow-up questions revolve around their answers

    • If they say they feel that they should, he asks “Do you come from a patriotic family?” and “What’s so patriotic about joining the military?”

  • Maybe it is more patriotic to stay home and build communities and families

    • Use their own reasoning and apply it to them not joining up

  • “What’s so exciting about getting your leg blown off for oil?”

  • Blow up their narrative

  • Every war since WWII that the US has been involved in is illegal under the constitution

  • Who wants to kill people they don’t even know?

54:58 – Do the police help?

• They didn’t prevent the slaughter of children in Uvalde

• The Supreme Court says they have no duty to protect anyone

• In an anarchist society, there is no monopoly on protection services

• Covid proved that police exist to protect the state

  • And politicians

• Libertarian views might not be socially appropriate

  • But we should open our mouths anyway

  • Be honest

• The military treats individuals like trash

  • Pawns in wars

  • No life skills outside the military

    • People get stuck

1:00:19 – We won’t all agree

• If you ask Craig a question, you will get his honest answer

• People do not all agree

  • If a voluntary society came tomorrow, people would still argue philosophy

  • Life is not black and white – Craig

  • There’s room for nuance – Jamie

• The military-industrial complex is the murdering wing of the state

  • It’s using Americans to build an agenda

• The Army military recruitment is down tremendously

  • Go woke, go broke

  • 20 years of war might have woken people up

  • The military has a serious recruiting problem – Congress must fix it

  • If numbers are down, will something new happen to make people patriotic?

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69. From angry An-Cap to peaceful Christian with John Krueger

About this Episode

Craig is joined by John Krueger for a conversation about his journey from being an angry Anarcho-Capitalist to a peaceful Anarcho-Christian. Unjust police killings, SWAT raids gone wrong and harsh lockdowns made John angry. He was eager to learn how to use a gun and imagined himself needing to protect his family from police violence. In the midst of this, the Holy Spirit met John and showed him a peaceful option.

Libertarian philosophy is peaceful, but we need Jesus and His word to have the whole picture. Craig and John advocate for Christian pacifism and examine what was going on in their hearts at the points when they both contemplated joining the military. Craig and John discuss the libertarian and Christian anarchist positions on the decriminalization of drugs, the real needs of terrorists, the US at war, gun control, and other contentious current issues.

The state is coercion and violence. Laws are enforced with fines that are begrudgingly paid to avoid the threat of violence or time spent in a cage. You cannot make people peaceful like this, using the state’s methods. But rather, we need to be those who allow the Holy Spirit to work in us to change the hearts and minds of those surrounding us; that is how social change works in the Kingdom. Let’s listen to Jesus and do things His way, forsaking violence and anger. Let’s work towards peace.

Connect with John Krueger on

• Practical Christology

• TikTok

Episode Timestamps:

1:27 – Who is John Krueger?

• From Columbus, Ohio

  • Grew up attending church

• 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 stood out

  • Paul writes about grace

• Journey to anarchism

  • Read Blue Like Jazz

    • Jesus was not a republican or a conservative

    • Became politically independent

  • Eventually considered voting

    • Began researching libertarianism

      • Clicked with his understanding of the Grace of God

  • Took a few more years to become an anarcho-capitalist

8:58 – Libertarians, drugs, and terrorists

• It’s easy to understand decriminalizing marijuana 

• Harder to understand decriminalizing heroin use

  • People shouldn’t be locked in a cage for it

  • People should be free to make their own choices

    • Provided they aren’t hurting others

• Osama Bin Laden needed Jesus

  • Not bombs

  • We can’t bomb people into peace

    • If we bomb all sinners, there will be no one left

• John and Craig let go of the war stuff last

  • The history of the Middle East is important

  • The US is still at war

    • More people are mad at the US for continuously bombing them

• Jesus said in His Kingdom:

  • You rule by washing feet

    • Only pagans lord it over their subjects

  • But instead, our “Christian Nation” goes to war

    • To spread democracy

• We don’t need the government for roads

• We don’t need police

• Losing friends because of speaking out about:

  • Getting troops home

  • Veteran suicides

  • Broken men and families

  • Sending the poor to fight a rich man’s war

20:11 – Craig and John considered joining the military

• Craig wanted to kill people out of anger after 911

  • Application rejected

    • 4 pounds over the weight limit

• John wanted to join the military because he felt powerless

  • Wanted to be great in battle - like David

  • Experienced God’s compassion for those killed on both sides

• Christians still justify war and killing

  • Jesus said when you have seen me, you have seen the Father

  • There is nothing about Jesus’ life that says you can kill in war

• Pacifism is the way for Christians

  • Craig still gets a hard time from Christians for his pacifist stance

  • The early church was 100% pacifist

    • Even to their own deaths

  • Jesus healed the Roman soldier and admonished Peter

    • When Jesus disarmed Peter, he disarmed every Christian

26:24 – Libertarians and Gun Control

• After shootings those on the left talk about taking away guns

• But guns will be taken away by force

  • Giving more power to the state

• Need to study history

• We don’t advocate for gun control

  • It’s enforced by violence

  • We should bear God’s peace instead

• The left sees calls to reduce state size as calls to let people starve

• John does not own guns, 

  • Only advocates for less government action

• We don’t use the state for any reason

• The same people who take guns away are those who shoot unarmed black men

• Fines are enforced through the threat of violence

• The ‘hero’ who ended the life of a would-be shooter still ended a life

• Jesus would not be training churches to enact violence

• We are here to bring the gospel to people

37:10 – From angry An-Cap to peaceful Christian Anarchist

• When John was an An-Cap he was angry at the state

  • Police killings made him angry

  • Made him want to get into guns

• Angry at government shutdowns because of shutdowns

• Holy Spirit showed him it would be better to defy the government in peaceful ways

  • Sneakily helping people

  • Blessing those who curse

  • Not needing to worry about what to say in front of judges

• Libertarians are never happy with the government

  • No matter who is in power they are stuffing everything up

  • Anger is not the fruit of the spirit

• Romans 11-14 need to be read together

  • Our heart position should be peaceful

• Libertarians need Jesus to have the full picture

42:48 – Romans 13 and libertarianism

• “Submit” and “obey” are not the same

  • When Christians get it wrong: 

    • They end up supporting government atrocities

    • Lives will be ruined

    • The state becomes an idol

• The early church withheld communion from people who worked for the state

  • Unless people were already soldiers

    • And had sworn off killing or oppressing people

    • None wore their weapons

    • All were to serve

• Getting Christians into power will not help

  • It is no longer Christianity

• The power is the wrong power

  • The Holy Spirit is the only power we need

  • Political power is force

  • Christians do not need to take the ”Seven Mountains” of power

  • These do not sound like Jesus

• Polycarp would not denounce Jesus

  • In the face of his own death

  • King Jesus has never done me any harm

• Everything that the state does harms somebody in some fashion

  • If they are helping you, they are harming someone else

  • The state is not a protector

• Jesus Christ is the only King

  • He wants the best for us

54:12 – How should we pray for government?

• We should pray for government and leaders

  • Craig prays for the state to end

  • The current chaos is caused by the state

  • We need to follow Jesus and walk away

  • John prays for leadership to know the gospel

    • Not the American folklore

    • But the true gospel

• Craig will take the words of the early church fathers over pastors

  • When modern pastors disagree with the early church

  • They still screwed things up

  • They aren’t Jesus

  • They were closer in time to Jesus

  • We need to get back to that

    • What we are doing now as the church is not working

• The Reformers had a blind spot when it came to the church

  • They killed people

• The Anabaptists became the Mennonites and Amish

  • They were peaceful

• Catholics are going back to mysticism

  • The church fathers and grace teachings

1:02:54 – Let’s bring it back to Jesus

• Listen to Jesus

  • Love your neighbor

  • Love your enemy

  • Love God

• It’s impossible to follow His teachings

  • But we should try:

    • Working towards good

    • Not working toward violence

    • Not working towards anger or hate

    • Working towards peace

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53. Love at the Border with David Hathaway

About this episode

David Hathaway is sheriff in a county of Arizona that borders Mexico. He does not believe the government is the way to solve our problems, but he's in office for now so no tyrannical person will be. He's doing what he can to protect everyone in his large family as well as his ranch and personal freedom. He has refused his governor’s offer of troops to patrol his portion of the border. He works to show everyone in and near his county God's love.

His consistent experience with the church and other freedom-lovers spewing wild hate when it comes to the wall led him to write a book on immigration and several articles for Lew Rockwell and the Libertarian Institute.

Jesus instructed us to love our neighbor and our enemy. So regardless of how you view them, it makes no sense to attack people for crossing a man-made line in the sand. But a lot of Christians and anarchists who stand on principle for many other issues completely change their tune when it comes to the wall and Mexico.

Many of us are hoping to someday be a part of a voluntary society. We often ask: would a sheriff be a part of that? David shares his thoughts. Also, we all know the mainstream media hides the truth from us. But they are pretending so hard that COVID is terrible, they’re completely ignoring the fact that suicide and overdoses killed more people during the lockdown than this “epidemic” did directly. This is tragic and affecting so many families, but people hide in the shadows, not realizing they are, unfortunately, the norm.

Episode Timestamps:

3:36 Illogical inconsistencies

• Anarchists and the border

• Some Austrian economists

  • In favor of national borders

    • While we’re in the nation-state phase

• Tax-funded border enforcers

• Scott Horton agrees

  • We shouldn't have tax funded, coercive structures in any parts of our life, if we want to have a voluntary system

• Will Grigg

  • Wrote a blurb for David’s book

  • Passed away

  • 100% principled Christian anarchist

    • Was against the state-funded border

5:48 Arizona citizens’ response to what David is doing on the border

• The biggest pushback is from conservative churches

  • They love to work with him on other issues

  • Across the country, Christians have decided we must do whatever it takes to keep these people out

    • Send troops

    • Knock heads

    • Shoot em

    • Lock em up

    • Take away their property

  • Maybe because they love Trump so much?

    • He is like their messiah

    • They associate this issue with him

• 25 years ago, Raegan had the opposite stance

  • “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!” - Raegan

  • Because walls and tanks don’t promote free enterprise

• Now, we even do southbound inspections

  • To make sure you’re not trying to flee the US

• People talk about Jesus and love one minute

  • The next minute, they’re angry and violent towards people crossing our border to find a better life

    • They can’t see the conflict there, somehow

  • But Jesus said love your neighbor and your enemy

    • That’s everybody!

9:51 Scriptural support

• Sermon on the Mount

  • Love your enemies

• Good Samaritan

  • Culturally and ethnically different people are still neighbors

• Jesus’ position is so clear

  • None of the conservatives who oppose David’s stance will discuss it

    • They just get angry

12:40 War

• We cannot serve 2 masters

• They take Romans 13 and say

  • It would be wrong for me to throw a bomb at someone

    • But if the government does it, it’s okay

      • They were instituted by God

  • They’ll shut up if you ask them if they think the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan was of God

    • Or if Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were ordained 

  • Rom 13 refers to true authority

13:48 Radical beliefs

• Jesus and the early church were radical 

  • We need to all go back to being radical

  • “It’s a radical thought to take His Word seriously.” - Craig

•  Tiberius

  • Proclaimed Rome to be a Christian nation

    • Before he did that, the army would do pagan rituals before battle

    • After, they continued to do rituals, but claimed to be praying to Jesus Christ

      • So everything the military did seemed legitimate to the Christians

• But for 3 centuries, the church did not follow the state

  • They wouldn't even allow anyone who was associated with the state to attend their gatherings

  • Then they got involved with Constantine because he offered some protection from the endless persecution they were facing

• Polycarp

  • Was taught to honor the government as long as they are doing us no harm

17:37 Opting out

• “The reason we pay taxes is not because it's legitimate, what the government's doing. It's just to live peaceably with all men.” - David

  • It's like turning the other cheek

  • The government is coercing us into giving them a lot of our income

    • So we just peacefully do what they ask

• But we can peacefully protest in other ways

• We can homeschool

• Render unto Caesar

  • But what is Caesar's?

  • Nietzsche says that the government owns nothing 

    • Everything the government owns is stolen

      • Which makes it not legitimately theirs

      • They don’t have a rightful claim to anything because they got it through coercion

  • So we pay taxes to protect those with weak faith from thinking we’re hostile

    • We want to stay friends with people who believe in taxes

    • What would Jesus do?

      • Ask them questions

    • What do we do when people disagree with us about something important?

      • Ask them questions 

      • Get their head spinning

      • Make them actually think through what they’re defending

      • That’s how we change what’s going on

20:57 Foreigners

• Red herring

  • Keeps people from noticing our country’s problems

  • “They don't want you to complain about the actual tyranny and the freedom they're taking away from you and your own country.” - David

• In wartime, we’re “allowed to” hate people from our enemy country – even if they’re US citizens

  • Past: Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese, German…

    • Germans hated Polish

  • Now:  Syrian, Afghan, Iraqi, Iranian, Russian…

  • We complain about them

    • Call them barbarians

      • This is always been a tactic

      • The Romans declared the Germans to be barbarian, and people still believe that myth to this day

      • Then, we won’t notice or complain about our own barbaric government

    • But we're the ones bombing their weddings and children

25:36 The governors on the border

• Both Ducey (AZ) and Abbott (TX) are trying to replicate Trump’s formula

• They assumed all the sheriffs on the border would gladly participate

• Posse Comitatus

  • The military cannot function as police within the US

  • They can support the police, if invited

• David told them no. 

  • This is a negative image of us at the border

  • It hurts our shopping districts 

  • It hurts tourism from bigger cities like Tucson and Phoenix

  • They wanted to bring not only razor wire

    • But troops with machine guns

  • Feels like East Berlin

• 2 of 4 Arizona border sheriffs invited them

  • Good political move to get re-elected

• The governors asked the lower 48 to please send officers and military to help guard

  • David is saying no to that too

  • Those people can’t function in a different state without being deputized by a local sheriff

  • Outsiders do not know the terrain or local people; who’s dangerous or not; everyone will have on their own, different uniforms; different radio frequencies

    • It’s not a safe situation

    • Could end up with friendly fire

• Who knows how long David will be able to resist the big guys as a little local sheriff?

28:52 What does a wall do?

• Raegan told Gorbachev it

  • Is a symbol of totalitarianism

  • Prevents free markets

• Lots of feds and the biggest border patrol station in his county

• The biggest port of entry in Arizona

• Quiet, low-crime area

  • Not because of the wall and patrols

• But maybe the governors think they’ll run for president, and people will like how they strengthened the border

30:56 David’s political campaign

• Wanted a campaign slogan about the golden rule/Good Samaritan in 3 words

  • “A Helpful Neighbor”

  • In English and Spanish

    • To be welcoming to everyone on either side of the border

• Didn’t interview about non-existent crises to get elected through fear

  • Didn’t promise to control anyone

• Simply focused on helping people

• Won by a landslide

  • Had 4x the number of votes of the runner up

• People were clearly glad to hear something so uplifting

33:10 News

• Not from the evening news

  • Too much anger and division and fear

• Reputable podcasts!

  • Scott Horton

  • Peter Schiff

  • Tom Woods

  • David Knight

  • Pete Quinones

• Plus a local news email

  • Which includes political nonsense with its information

• He does interviews, but won’t watch the channels

• David and his wife do not wish to become depressed

  • Mainstream news bogs you down

  • And they lie so much!

• How do you know the podcasts aren’t lying?

  • Their message is consistent

    • Their viewpoint doesn’t change daily

    • Their goalposts, like for ending Corona, don’t move

  • Mainstream media is full of “court intellectuals”

    • They are chosen because their science leads to the government having more control over our lives

35:58 Police in a voluntary society?

• Maybe it would be like having a sheriff, since he’s elected

  • No, sheriffs are funded through theft, aka taxation

  • The government arbitrarily decides how many patrol officers and other personnel and equipment might be needed and taxes the public accordingly

  • There’s no way to know what a market-funded security entity might look like

    • But we can be sure that the market would determine what gets established

  • Democracy is not legitimate

    • It doesn’t provide just outcomes

      • If 2 wolves and a sheep vote for what’s for dinner every night, the sheep will always lose

• Sheriffs historically

  • Common law

    • Sheriff was the only law enforcement at all

  • City police forces were created in 1800’s

    • London, then NYC

    • 3-letter federal agencies came in 1900’s

      • No provision in the constitution for anything like them

      • FBI was never supposed to have weapons

  • If you think politics means anything, you would say the sheriff is the only legitimate law enforcement

    • Not as a patrol position

      • But a judge

      • And executor of justice

      • Police never catch bad guys by patrolling

        • They only take statements after the crime

• A police or security force is only necessary in a voluntary society if the market demands it, and then only to the extent that the people want

42:01 Taxation is theft

• We never signed a social contract agreeing to give up our income for services

  • If asked, most people would say no

    • And go find a different way to get their needs met

42:45 David’s reasons for being sheriff

• Even someone wrapped up in politics can see that only local solutions make sense

• Main reason: If I don’t, some guy who will do what they want will be in office running mine and my family’s lives

• If I’m sheriff, no one is telling the people in my county how to live

• Not planning to influence anything beyond local politics

  • I don’t think the state is the answer

  • I make LP people sad

• In a nutshell, to protect family and property from tyranny

45:00 Unintended consequences to lockdown

• Craig's baby brother drank himself to death

  • He was so afraid of the virus

  • He isolated himself completely 

• Nobody's talking about the high numbers of suicides and overdoses that came during COVID

• Rand Paul asked Fauci if he had thought of the consequences of a lockdown

  •  Fauci essentially just said “Nope. It's really important that everyone participate.”

• Good economics will look at more than one factor; it'll take them all into account

• The suicides and overdoses were 3x higher in David’s county after the lockdown started

  • These outnumber deaths directly attributable to COVID

  • The county north of David's just had their highest count of suicides and overdoses ever recorded

• The news will not report on this at all 

• David tries to mention it to reporters, but they likely edit it out

• 2 segments of society hardest hit: the old and the young

• The government wants people to continue believing that everything’s being done for our good

• COVID death numbers

  • The hospital got $15,000 for every COVID admission

    • Did not even require physical test

      • Could just have ⅛ general symptoms

  • They got $39,000 for every COVID death

    • Only true deaths David saw were from ventilators

  • The number is even lower in reality

    • But there were more suicides & overdoses than even the faked high number

  • Also, flu cases got counted as COVID

52:04 Contact David

• Davidhathaway@gmail.com

Writings on Lew Rockwell and Libertarian Institute

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52. Yemen: The War with No End with Scott Horton

About this episode

Scott Horton provides the truth about current events with historical context. He has a way of weaving together seemingly unconnected events to paint a big picture most people cannot see for themselves. He is the director of The Libertarian Institute, editor of antiwar.com, and runs a popular podcast called The Scott Horton Show.

Scott returns to The Bad Roman once again, in the midst of a media frenzy around Putin’s war with Ukraine, to remind us (and educate us) on the ongoing war, and general disruption, the United State of America has been wagging in Yemen and the Middle East.

What we’re doing in Yemen is illegal. We are providing every kind of support (besides troops) to Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Al Qaeda as they bomb and blockade the Houthi people in the north. Children are starving. And what do we even gain from this? A bit of money for a corporation? A feeling of world domination? There is a long, complicated history of us meddling in the Middle East that led us to this point. Scott Horton sorts it out for us. 

To learn more about Scott Horton and his work, you can follow Scott on Twitter. buy or listen to his books about the war in the Middle East. If you are interested in learning more about the situation and Yemen and the middle east check out episode 23, our first interview with Scott.

EPISODE TIMESTAMPS:

1:57 What happened to Biden’s Promise?

• He ordered that everything we were doing in Yemen stop

  • Yet it continues

  • He ordered that resupply and maintenance, intelligence and logistics from the US cease

  • The US used to refuel Saudi/UAE planes in the air and created a Navy blockade against Iran, but stopped 

  • Admiral Kirby had said they were going to implement Biden’s order in February

    • By May, he was saying, “Of course, we need to send them plane maintenance teams”

    • After that, we just resumed our support

5:40 The Price of War

• Civilians are suffering the most

• No one is even keeping a casualty count for citizens

• They’ll tell us about the humanitarian crisis after it’s all over

6:46 Why no one cares in the US

• Yemen is far away

• People don’t even know where it is

• Also, we’re not sending troops to die or be injured there, so it’s not personal to us

7:33 Why do we keep it going?

• We have to do whatever Saudi Arabia tells us

• Money

  • From arms sales to Saudis

• There will not be a good enough reason to satisfy us

  • Nothing they could say would make this reasonable

• Petrodollar

• To stay dominant in the Middle East

10:35 Who is our enemy?

• Right now, we’re backing Al Qaeda

• Obama’s drone wars were against Al Qaeda

  • Special forces sent in a lot

    • Still probably are at times

    • But we are not occupying

• Switched sides in 2015

11:43 People's awareness

• Even when we fully invaded Iraq, people stopped paying attention by the end of 2003

• Even well-educated friend thought Yemen was in Africa

  • It’s the southwestern tip of the Arabian Peninsula

• This has been going on for decades, but no one noticed until Obama started bombing in 2009

  • Except that one incident where Bush bombed a car belonging to Al-Quaeda and killed an American who was hanging out with them

    • After that, he let the Yemeni dictator do the fighting

      • The dictator was playing both sides

        • Fighting Al-Qaeda

        • Also paying them to fight the Shiites

  • Obama said that Bush was going after too many groups

    •  Focused on Al-Qaeda

      1. Turns out there were only 29 guys to target

      2. Killed thousands of people in Pakistan

      3. In exchange, we helped them win against the Taliban

      4.  That war led to the rise of ISIS

      5. Al-Qaeda was responsible for

         1. Coordinating 9/11

         2. Tried to bomb a plane over Detroit

         3. Charlie Hebdo attack

         4. Printer cartridge plots

         5. Comic Convention in France

         6. Death metal concert

         7. Other massacres in France

         8. One in Brussels

17:42 Houthi

• Scott's episode with Shereen, she mentioned that Houthis have more support than ever

• Sort of like what Ron Paul said

  • They're mad because we're bombing their homes, so they're retaliating the best way they know-how

    • They end up creating or joining terrorist organizations

18:44 Rewind - How did the War in Yemen Start

• Jimmy Carter’s problem

  • Americans had Vietnam Syndrome – they were done with war

  • His national security advisors wanted to go against Russia

  • They decided if we can't directly fight them, we should convince them to fight a worthless war like we just did and drain all their resources

    • We baited them into unsustainable over-expansion

      • In Afghanistan

      • By supporting the Mujahideen

      • Russia invaded that winter, but who knows if our actions had anything to do with it 

      • We continued to fight the Soviets through the Mujahideen and the Arab Afghan Army

        • Arab men from around the world who came to fight the holy war

        • Formed into Al Qaeda

          • Every Al Qaeda group in the world currently has its roots with fighting for the CIA under Reagan against the Soviets in Afghanistan

      • We also supported Saddam Hussein against Iran in the 80s

        • Our puppet government had been overthrown

        • Supported Saddam for 8 years

          • Until he invaded Kuwait

          • Suddenly, we launched Operation Desert Storm at him

      • Bush Sr. encouraged the Shiite uprising in Iraq

        • until he realized the leaders came from Iran

        • then we had them crushed by Saddam Hussein

          • We blamed him for the massacre and went to war against him

          • “We’re Superman, and it’s our job to protect these Shiites” - Scott

24:44 Why they attacked us

• We kept our bases in Saudi Arabia to police Iraq and Iran

  • All the Mujahideen mercenaries we had created turned on us

    • We were occupying their holy land

      • Imagine if Jesus had been born in Texas and someone just decided to own that space

• Revenge

• For backing Israel against Palestine

• For supporting dictators in the region

26:09 Their strategy

• Hit us

• Bog us down

• Trick us as we’d tricked the Soviets

  • Get us to invade Afghanistan

    • The loss of Afghani life doesn’t matter to them

      • If they’re true Muslims, they’ll go to Heaven

    • The goal was to break the power of the American Empire

    • America spread the Jihad throughout the region

      • We radicalized people everywhere we went because we brought chaos

27:51 Continued timeline

• George W took the Shiites his dad abandoned to Baghdad

  • Kicked the Sunnis out of power

    • Pushed them out of the city right into the open arms of Al Qaeda

• Radicalized fighters from across the region met in Iraq to attack us and the Shiites

  • Suicide bombers

  • Head choppers

  • They targeted civilians and people praying at the mosque

• After the war, they all went home and caused trouble

  • Syria, Libya, Yemen…

  • Obama took their side in Libya and Syria

• Obama ordered the CIA to go after Al Qaeda

  • So, they drop bombs and missiles on those associated with Bin Laden

  • Small problem: “People really don't like it when you drop gigantic explosives on their family members and tear their bodies apart.” - Scott

    • Good motivation to join Al Qaeda

      • “Obama's trying to kill these guys, but as he's killing them, he's just essentially watering the garden with their blood and growing more and more of their replacements.” - Scott

31:54 Yemen

• The USA is bombing Al Qaeda

• Bribing Saleh in the capital with money and weapons for permission to bomb

  • But he was also hiring Al Qaeda to help him fight his enemies

    • He was losing, and his enemy got stronger with each defeat

    • He also was financing his enemy

  • They were all getting worn out

• 2011 Arab Spring

  • Successful in Egypt and Tunisia

  • The whole region breaks out and tries to overthrow rulers

  • In Yemen, all groups gathered and agreed: Ali Abdullah Saleh must go

    • Many protests

    • Assassination attempts with explosives

      • 2nd one who injured him went to Saudi Arabia for treatment

    • While he was in the hospital, Hilary made a deal with the Saudis to replace Saleh with his VP

      • They created a one-man election, he would not allow for re-election; he just stayed in office, he caused gas prices to double/triple overnight; made the Houthis’ lives more difficult and then tried to attack them (see a full list of the terrible things this guy did in Scott’s book)

      • He lost, just like Saleh always did, but this time because of Saleh he didn’t go away quietly and took two-thirds of the army with him. They then allied with his former enemies in order to attack the new ruler, who, it turns out, he was actually a Zaydi Shiite from the north

38:00 Houthis vs Saleh’s VP

• 2014, the Houthi-Saleh alliance seized the capital

• 2015, US Central Command allied with Houthis

  • Gave them intelligence to fight Al Qaeda

  • … until we didn’t

    • Obama stabbed them in the back

    • Suddenly, we’re allied with Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Al Qaeda trying to drive the Houthis out of power

      • No progress has been made in this war

  • Loophole of responsibility 

    • No American lives are being lost

    • This is a Saudi-led coalition

      • We're just helping them out a bit

41:30 Does that make any sense?

• We are the empire

  • Saudi Arabia is our client: We make all the equipment in the US - this is our war

  • Why are we begging our clients to stay with us?

    • For money? Why are we so desperate for money?

• Trump had raised tariffs on China

  • This hurt American manufacturing because pricing and availability changed

  • We’d already cut taxes

  • We decided to bolster the Military-Industrial Complex

  • Made a contract with Raytheon to build all the equipment

  •  as if that boosts our entire economy somehow

  • Trump boasted that Saudi Arabia was spending $450 billion on our weapons 

  • They really only spent $3 billion, which is enough to kill way too many people

  • He claimed that a million jobs were reliant on Saudi Arabia’s purchases

  • Maybe 30,000 are

  • It's really just welfare for big companies that are paid for in human lives 

45:30 What to bomb

• The Saudi military can bomb whatever they want

• The US Military can blame things on Saudi Arabia, so they also can attack wherever they want 

• They're fighting an economic war by bombing farms, roads, and marketplaces

• Hospitals

• Bombing water has led to cholera outbreaks

  • Biggest outbreak since WWII

  • Babies and toddlers die of dehydration

48:03 Reminder of who we are fighting

• Our enemies in Yemen never attacked us

  • Our allies did

• The Houthis are not heroes, but they never did anything to provoke an attack from us

• We keep attacking civilians

  • Against Geneva Convention

    • We would lock anyone else up for our crimes

    • Lawyers working for POTUS have written memos saying we’re breaking the law and could get in trouble

• Every US president involved is a war criminal

  • Every president since Carter is condemned in this episode

  • “They’re just presidents. They’re not America.” - Scott

  • They’re the worst people in North America

  • They’ve all done terrible things; none is better than the others

  • None of this should hurt your feelings. You don’t have a personal connection to any president.

  • “I don't think that you have to condemn America to condemn that man and the decisions he made.” - Scott

  • Both Trump and Obama made decisions to kill thousands just to placate someone else on the hill

  • These men do not represent the wishes or morals of the American people

    • “You can get people to cheer for these things, but only by lying to them from morning to night in order to get them to be afraid and then endorse the idea that their government is only trying their best to protect them when it's just not true” - Scott

  • “I’m not anti-American; I’m anti-government-of-America.” - Craig

  • The average citizen is not guilty except by electing the people who are

56:22 Branch Davidians at Waco

• Americans

• Took over a tiny plot of land in a tiny town in Texas

• FBI & president acted as if they were foreigners

  • The reality is, we’re all American

• 2 sides + innocents caught in the crossfire

• Treated David Koresh like Saddam Hussein

  • Called him crazy so they could seize his weapons and kill him “to save everyone else”

  • Same script in 1993 that they used again in 2003

• The threats they tell us about just aren’t that likely to attack, in reality

  • Unless the US influences the situation to start something

  • “This is the big secret… America has no enemies in the world at all.” - Scott

    • We would be just fine without the Pentagon or a military

      • Ron Paul said we could defend ourselves with just a couple of good submarines holding basic torpedoes

59:46 World powers

• USA

• Brazil?

  • 2nd biggest American economy after the US, Canada, and Mexico

    • Canada and Mexico are not threats; we’re friends

  • Does not have a navy

• Europe

  • Friends

  • Including Russia

    • Putin will tell you we’re partners

• Africa

  • None

  • Egypt is under our thumb

    • They wouldn’t start a war that shuts down their main source of income (the Suez Canal) and gets them bombed

• India

  • A billion people, most desperately poor

  • No outward foreign policy in place at all

• China

  • Our 2nd biggest trading partner

  • Nixon made friends with Mao 50 years ago

    • Separated them from the Soviet Union

    • Mao was so dangerous, it was better to be his friend

  • After Mao died, it was more of a fascist dictatorship with a market economy

  • The worst that might happen is they invade Taiwan, which is unlikely

    • We officially recognize Taiwan as part of China

    • We don’t want a war there, but we probably won’t defend Taiwan

  • Even if they did take Taiwan, they’re not going to go further and overtake the US as the world empire  

• Other Asian countries

  • Just not interested in conflict

  • Japan is no longer an imperialist power

    • Their population is aging

• Middle East

  • Conflicts among tribal and religious groups

  • But Iran is not coming for Israel

    • And if they were, Israel is the most aggressive threat in the region

• “We could just completely shed ourselves of this militarism and be a limited constitutional republic with a free-market capitalist economy.” - Scott

  • No one can look back at the last 20 years and say, “Thank God we did that!”

  • Our bridges and other infrastructure are crumbling

    • We wasted $10 trillion blowing innocent people up

      • To shuffle power around in the Middle East

1:07:13 The humanitarian crisis in Yemen

• Every 75 seconds, a child dies from hunger due to the blockade

• Famine

• The poorest country in the Middle East

• IMF convinced them to plow under their millet and other food crops

  •  Planted coffee and cotton instead

  •  Sold on the global market so they could trade yummy food from other countries

  •  Worked great until the US blockaded them

    •  You can't eat cotton and coffee

• Houthis were defined as a terrorist organization, but it was redacted

  • Talking about doing that again

    • Which will make it illegal to send in food or other aid

• This is not propaganda like Saddam Hussein throwing premature babies on the floor

  • This is real.

  • These babies are dying.

  • Starving to death.

• “We need to stop doing this; we need to find a different path.” - Craig

1:10:30 Religious War?

• Christians in the US we’re told we had to go fight the spread of radical Islam

  • Saddam Hussein was an atheist

    • He was afraid of Osama Bin Laden’s Islam

• For years, we were told we must stop the Muslims from wiping us out

  • Now, we’ve forgotten about them

    • Focus has shifted to China and Russia

• Truth: “Al Qaeda is still out there and the American policies that drive them to attack us still exist in great measure.” - Scott

• We support all these kings and sultans

• The danger comes from American policies messing stuff up

• It doesn’t have to be this way

• Most people just don’t understand how the whole story is connected

  • Or that it’s possible for us to not be over there in the Middle East

  • Ron Paul tried to tell people we could get out

    • They simply dismissed him

• Trump called George W the dumbest and worst

  • Caused Republicans to decide between Bush and Trump: which is worse?

  • If they wanted to stay loyal to the current guy, they had to denounce their old beliefs

  • Also, Trump is ruthless

    • If he thought bombing the Middle East would help America, he would not hesitate

      • But he didn’t think that

      • He wanted out

  • Trump led people to question not only why we were over there under Bush

    • But why we are still over there

• Colonel Douglas MacGregor

  • Wrote the book on invasions

  • Says we don’t have to be in conflict with Russia

    • Or China

    • We don’t have any enemies at all

      • Anyone who says otherwise needs their head examined

1:18:28 George Washington’s ghost

• Calling out, “It’s supposed to be a limited republic!”

  • Not in a constant state of war and/or emergency

  • War is only for extreme situations

  • How can we be free or have rights in an emergency state?

• We are not protecting the Bill of Rights

  • We’re not passing it down

  • It is dying

• We don't have a pact with Jesus to protect our Bill of Rights

• You can’t have a limited republic with a world empire

  • Economic pain? High inflation?

    • Empire economics

      • No hard money

        • Must be able to print more for emergencies

    • “This is the bubble, friends, and the crash is coming.” - Scott

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45. Radically Following Jesus with Shane Claiborne

In this episode, Shane Claiborne joins us to talk about living like Jesus, abortion, gun violence, Christian nationalism, and whether we should get involved in politics as a way to help others live in freedom. 

We know the teachings of Jesus, but what does it look like to actually follow them? How can we care for other humans as God instructed, and how can we do that when we live amidst a corrupt and often unjust government? As Shane points out, “If anybody should be suspicious of state power, it should be Christians who worship an executed and risen savior.” Our Lord was killed by the government. We should not trust in our rulers, but in Him, but, as Shane would argue, we can use their system to help people by getting bad policies changed.

Who is Shane Claiborne? He is a radical advocate for living as if Jesus really meant what He said. He heads up an intentional, simple-living Christian community called Red Letter Christians, and is the co-founder of The Simple Way, an intentional neighborhood-based Christian community in North Philadelphia. Shane has been to jail multiple times while advocating for the poor and against war. You can connect with him on his personal website, Twitter, email, and Instagram. 

Timestamps:

1:26 What following Jesus looks like

• “Man, I was pretty together, met Jesus, and He messed me up.” -Shane

  • Teachings like

    • To be great, become the least

    • Love your enemies

    • Sell possessions and give to the poor

  • Started a community for local homeless people who were being evicted from a church. They

    • Fix up abandoned houses

    • Create gardens

    • Paint murals

    • Care for neighbors’ needs 

7:24 Pro-life or just anti-abortion?

• “We shouldn't be in other countries dropping bombs on people” -Craig

• One-issue voting is inconsistent

• Christians are the obstacle to progress

9:45 A Bible in one hand; a newspaper in the other

•  Know what's going on in the world around you

• “When you look at Jesus, He was talking about the Kingdom of God coming on Earth, as it is in Heaven. Not just something we go up to when we die, but something we bring down while we're alive.” - Shane

• Study the Bible and sociology together

11:41 Christian Nationalism

• Trump didn’t change the church; he revealed their true beliefs 

• “A lot of white Christians have been shaped more by whiteness than by Christ.” -Shane

• People use the Gospel to justify all kinds of atrocities

• Reconstructing the Gospel: Finding Freedom from Slaveholder Religion by Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove

• Compare Trump and his policies to The Sermon on the Mount

• Christians betrayed Jesus with a kiss for a couple seats on the Supreme Court

• Welcome the stranger -- not because you're Republican or Democrat, but because you follow Jesus, and that is His example

• “A lot of times it's been more Fox news or a political party that's shaping our imagination than the Gospel” -Shane

• Christians wind up saying ugly things like that they want to go to the border and shoot people when they follow Trump instead of Christ

19:15 Nothing new

• People fear the transfer of power from white people

  • They want to take America back; to make it great again

    • To counteract any progress Black Lives Matter made

• Fear and love cannot occupy the same space 

  • “What would America look like if love rather than fear were compelling our policies and shaping our minds on a lot of these things?” -Shane

22:45 Debate: Do we need to get involved in politics to love our neighbor?

• Shane: Laws can either improve or destroy people's lives

  •  We need to work to get harmful laws changed for the good of our neighbor

• Craig: Politics are not our thing; we're of a different Kingdom

  •  Jesus didn't use politics to advance His agenda

• Shane: Opting out has consequences

  • We're not putting our hope in a politician; we’re voting to change policies that make life harder for our friends

  • Vote on behalf of those Jesus blessed

    • The poor, the mourning, the refugees, the incarcerated... 

  • Don't only help them through the ballot. Work every day for their freedom.

  • Fight for laws that make it harder to kill them

• Craig: Ballots don't do that. Voting doesn't change anything and doesn't help anyone.

• Shane: We should use every weapon we have; harness the principalities 

• Craig: Christians live on the fringes of society and shouldn't be involved in the system at all

• Shane: Moving to a community with black folks changed my perspective

  • Dr. King went to jail for political change 

  • “I do believe that the church is a primary instrument for God transforming the world.”

  • God can redeem the system using us

  • Legislation helps people flourish

    • We use it to keep people safe in cars; need for guns too

    • Jesus judges nations on how they cared for the poor

31:14 The early Church’s politics

• They were called atheists because they denied the deity of Rome

• They disrupted the empire by claiming another Emperor

• But Jesus didn’t kill anyone to overthrow the empire

  • He died.

  • And many details leading to His death can be seen as a parody to Caesar’s rule

• “If anybody should be suspicious of state power, it should be Christians who worship an executed and risen Savior.” - Shane

• Irreconcilable vocations

  • Brothel, executioner, anyone who had to kill for the state

    • Jesus said love your enemies, which means not killing them

• They were consistently against all violence

  • Abortion, execution, gladiators…

36:09 Living like Christians

• People use the Bible to justify terrible things

• We cannot live like a Christian and go against the teachings of Christ

• Gandhi wished we would. He liked Jesus, but was not a fan of the church

• We should view the entire Bible’s contents through the lens of Jesus 

39:13 Guns into Gardens Project; Beating Guns book

• Old Testament prophets speak of turning swords into plows

  • Similarly, turning guns into garden tools

    • And crosses

      • One says I want to kill; the other says I’m willing to die

    • And jewelry for victims of gun violence to wear and sell

  • People say it's not a gun problem; it's a heart problem

    • It's both

    • God transforms the heart; people transform the laws

  • Jesus should inspire us to protect life

42:04 The American Revolution

•   Claimed to be following God

  •  If they were, they never would have gone to war 

  • America began with guns. It's impossible to imagine our country without them

    • How else could they have started a country on stolen land with stolen labor?

42:56 Red-letter Christian Intentional Community

• A glimpse of Heaven on Earth

• Sharing everything in common end taking care of each other

• Reducing gun violence through:  

  • Hospitality

  • Drug addiction recovery

  • Lifting people out of the ditch

    • Figure out what's landing them in the ditch in the first place

      • It’s often government laws and policies

        • So we vote and advocate for change

• It'll probably land you in jail 

  • Charged with a felony for leaving water in the desert for immigrants 

  • Obey the good laws; disobey the bad ones

    • Expose how crazy they are by loudly getting in trouble 

    • A rich tradition of civil disobedience 

    • Be willing to suffer the consequences of exposing injustice

• Issues around the world

  • Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan…

    • Preemptive Love

• We spend more on the military than social uplift and are headed for spiritual death 

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32. The Troops’ Battle, The State’s Evils: Waging War with Eric Campbell and Nicolas Harrelson

What if everything you have been told about the War on Terror has been a lie?  

In this episode Craig talks with veterans Eric Campbell and Nicolas Harrelson about their experiences as servicemen who toured in Iraq. They discuss how their experiences changed their view on war, and led them on a path to anarchism. Putting a face on the humanity in Iraq and learning that the people there are everyday men and women who are just trying to provide for their families and live in peace, brought about a change in perception for these men. Discovering that the military presence and intervention has caused more harm than good, and the people of Iraq preferred Saddam to the US military was a sobering realization. What is the truth, and why do we continue to occupy these countries? 

LINKS & STARTING POINTS:

2:33 Eric’s Background 

• 20+ years of service 

• Professional national guardsman 

• E5 sergeant 

• Radio operator/communications specialist 

3:51 Nicolas’ Background

• 6 years in the Virginia national guard 

• Eleven Bravo Infantryman 

• 1st deployment to Iraq in 2009-10

• 2nd deployment to Iraq 2011

• Wounded on second deployment, October 2011

16:05 Eric’s Story of being in the military & deployed overseas

• Got to know the locals

• Conditioned to believe that “they” were evil and vile

• Dealt with normal everyday truck drivers who were not devoutly religious Muslims but instead...stereotypical truck drivers

• Realized he was lied to about what kind of people the Iraqi people were 

• The lies and propaganda is in the American churches, media, and military training 

• The Iraqi people are just normal everyday people struggling to survive, and we ruined that. 

32:36 Nicolas’ Story of being in the military & deployed overseas

• The United States being in conflict and war with other countries has been normalized 

• There is no longer peace between us and the rest of the world 

• There has been a complete dehumanization of others 

• The effects of war on his friends 

• Suicide of friends he served with 

• Began putting a human face on the “others”

• “It says a lot about the effects we have had in Iraq when the Iraqi people rather have Saddam as opposed to what we have brought them” 

• We have been involved in the war on terror for 20 years 

• Created the perfect storm of ambiguity that allows for the government to do as they please 

• Creates broken individuals(veterans)

• How does the war effect those who didn’t ask to be involved?

• Heavy burden to bear 

44:56 We have not been in a declared war since World War 2

• Military industrial complex benefits from perpetual war

• Conflict profits the government by growing it 

• “For every terrorist we kill, multiple are created” 

• Average everyday Americans are sucked into the cycle 

• War makes money 

• The soldiers are there to protect Halliburton and those connected to Halliburton and their profits

• Every aspect of the military has some company tied to it 

54:02 Afghan Papers 

• In-depth account of evidence that the military strung along the public and the government to perpetually continue the mission in Afghanistan and Iraq, as a means to continue receiving funding 

• War and conflict has become normalized 

• The United States government has always been the aggressor in all of these conflicts 

• There are no sensible and rational arguments for going into Iraq and Afghanistan 

• We trained Saddam Hussein

• Bin Laden trained by CIA

59:56 There is a need for ministry and mental health assistance in the military 

• War should be the last resort of failed diplomacy 

• There is a large number of service men and women who believe that war should be a last resort 

1:09:59 Eric’s gaming blog: The Anarchist Gamer on blogspot 

19. John Dangelo - The Battle of Two Faiths - Politics & Christ

In this episode of the Bad Roman Podcast, Marine Corps veteran and former atheist, John Dangelo joins Craig for a conversation on the disconnect between what the state does and its compatibility with living the way a faith in Christ challenges us to live. They explore themes of war, contemporary progressivism, and how Christians on the right and left have forgotten how to separate political and religious faith.

As Christian Voluntaryist/Anarchist, we put our faith in Christ, not the authority of man made states. When we take a step back, most of our life, from who’s going to fold the laundry, to where we should go on vacation, or to whose turn it is to pick the kids up from soccer practice is done without government intervention, it is voluntary, it is the true definition of voluntaryism/anarchism. So why did Christians cry out at a man kneeling before a flag rather than kneel before that same flag for the sake of Christ? The realities of this entanglement is what we explore in episode 19 and the cornerstone of what the Bad Roman Project seeks to explore.

Timestamps and resources for further exploration:

00:51 John’s background

• Nursing & time in military

• Camp Leatherneck

• Being an atheist

• Anti War propaganda (antiwar.com)

01:47 Clinging to faith in political parties instead of in Christ

03:59 Does it benefit politicians on the right to ban abortion

05:24 “Where else would they go”

• the state, the Christian, and Trump’s lasting impressions on the Republican party

06:38 Theatrics in place of debate - contemporary progressivism

• Michael Malice, The New Right

• Progressivism and totalitarianism

• Social process v. political change

09:13 Evangelical left

• Pew data on evangelicals and protestants political bends

13:06 Push back from other veterans on John’s writings

13:57 Talking with other Christians

• Being a Sunday school teacher

• Thrive Church

15:04 Where is the disconnect for Christians when it comes to war?

• “Mission creep”   

• How 9/11 was used to rationalize US federal power expanse 

• Syria, Somalia, Niger

• Use of sanctions

18:58 What is the hold up for Christians?

• Losing site of faith when talking politics

 22:23 The failures of the two-party system & the path to anarchy

• Is a third party possible?

• Malice and technology reshaping the political landscapes

• Voter turnout in the 2016 US presidential election

25:56 Colin Kapernick kneeling and the response from the right

26:37 Overtly political symbols in Church

• You cannot be a servant to two masters

• Peaceful protest

• Anarchist are supposed to be peaceful

29:50 We are anarchist in 99% of our lives

• Reject rules, chose it voluntarily 

32:10 Collapse of the Soviet Union

• Was relatively peaceful, things did not go up in flames

35:40  Government as Mad Max analogy 

38:16 John’s plugs

• Website: antiwar.com

• Personal site: antiwarwarvet.com

• Instagram @antiwarwarvet

• God Weeps for His Church, article on the Bad Roman website