145. Charlie Kirk and the Lamb of God: Can You Carry the Flag and the Cross at the Same Time?

After Charlie Kirk’s tragic death, a deeper conversation has surfaced about the growing entanglement of Christianity and politics.

This episode of The Bad Roman Podcast steps into that tension and explores what happens when the Church trades the cross for a campaign.

Our guest, Brian Drinkwine, is a pastor and church planter who has walked that road himself. He went from a passionate political believer to a follower of Christ learning to question the marriage between faith and power. His viral post about Charlie Kirk’s memorial service sparked a national conversation and revealed how uneasy many Christians feel about the blending of faith and political ideology.

The Malaise of Modern Christianity

There is a growing discomfort in the Church, a spiritual restlessness that Brian calls malaise. Many believers sense that something is wrong, even if they cannot explain it.

This episode gives language to that unease and helps people who feel out of place in modern Christianity find words for what they feel.

“You’re not crazy,” Brian says to those who feel out of step. “You saw this and thought, something’s not right. You chose to give your allegiance to Jesus alone. That should be celebrated, not condemned.”

That is the heartbeat of The Bad Roman: No King but Christ.

It is not a slogan but a return to the simplicity and power of early Christianity.

The Danger of Political Allegiance

One of the clearest insights from this conversation is that political parties often act like religions.

Each one has its own sacred texts, rituals, and values. For some, the Constitution becomes scripture. Voting becomes a sacrament. Party leaders become prophets.

When Christians give their ultimate loyalty to these political “religions,” they risk betraying the Kingdom of God.

“We cannot serve both God and Mammon,” Brian reminds us. “And sometimes, political power becomes the new Mammon.”

This is not theory. It is a call to honest reflection.
Have we allowed our politics to shape our faith more than the teachings of Jesus?

Reframing Faith and Politics

Throughout the episode, Brian and Craig invite listeners to rethink what it means to follow Jesus in a politically divided world.

1. Patriotism vs. Nationalism: It is good to appreciate your country. But when love of nation becomes ultimate loyalty, it becomes idolatry.

2. The Narrow Path: Following Jesus is not about finding middle ground. It is about choosing a completely different way. The Kingdom of God is not found on the right or the left. It is found on the narrow road of Christ.

3. Repentance as Revolution: The word metanoia means a complete change of mind. It is not about guilt but about turning back to Jesus as King.

4. The Power of Forgiveness: The difference between Erica Kirk’s forgiveness and the calls for revenge at the memorial shows what Kingdom love really looks like.

Practical Steps for Realignment

If your faith feels tangled up in politics, Brian offers a few ways to begin untangling it.

• Take a “politics fast.” Step away from political media and spend time in the Gospels instead.

• Simplify your faith. Start again with the basics, like the Sermon on the Mount.

• Check your allegiances. Ask yourself, “If loving others like Jesus meant losing my party loyalty, could I do it?”

• Speak prophetically. True patriotism tells the truth, even when it is uncomfortable.

What This Teaches Us About Faith and Politics

This conversation is a mirror for all of us who have ever mixed our love for Jesus with our loyalty to empire. It reminds us that our mission is not political victory but faithfulness to Christ.

In a world divided by tribalism, allegiance to Jesus is the most countercultural thing we can offer.

“On the other side of my political allegiance,” Brian says, “when I gave that up and fully gave myself to Jesus, it is just a better life.”

So where does your allegiance really lie?
Are you ready to walk away from the noise and return to the way of Jesus?

The Kingdom still calls.

No King but Christ.

🤝Connect with Brian Drinkwine:

• Email: brian@briandrinkwine.com

• Website: https://briandrinkwine.com/

• Linkedin

• X

• Facebook

• Instagram 

• Ministry at Breakthrough Church

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Discussing reactions to Charlie Kirk's death

• Brian Drinkwine joins to discuss varied reactions to Kirk's passing

• Read Brains post here

• Examining potential blurred lines due to nationalism

• Questioning if some churches have lost focus on "no king but Jesus"

(0:48) Brian Drinkwine's background

• Grew up in Nashville, Tennessee in independent fundamental Baptist tradition

• Transitioned to Southern Baptist church and found faith at youth camp

• Experience in youth ministry and church planting

(4:09) The viral post about Charlie Kirk

• Origin of Drinkwine's post addressing the tragedy

• Unexpected widespread response and impact

• Dealing with the flood of messages and notifications

(10:45) Addressing the church's response

• Preparing a message to bring the congregation together

• Importance of uniting around Jesus rather than political parties

• Transcribing and adapting the message for social media

(23:52) Reflections on the memorial service

• Conflicting emotions during Charlie Kirk's memorial

• Redeeming moments and problematic statements

• Struggle with nationalistic undertones in Christian spaces

(29:19) The danger of political allegiance

• Exploring the concept of allegiance in faith and politics

• Matthew Bates' book "Salvation by Allegiance Alone"

• Warning against getting sucked back into allegiance to empire

(35:32) Early church perspective on empire

• Examining how early Christians responded to empire

• Importance of studying church fathers like Tertullian

• Unpopularity of this view in mainstream churches

(41:34) The malaise in modern Christianity

• Growing sense of unease among followers of Jesus

• Need to return to Jesus as the solution

• Importance of simplifying faith and focusing on basic teachings

(54:46) Christian nationalism and its impact

• Difference between patriotism and nationalism

• Danger of giving full allegiance to political parties

• Need for a prophetic voice while appreciating one's country

(1:06:56) Tools for self-reflection

• Developing a breakdown of political parties and Jesus as rival religions

• Creating a 10-point checklist for assessing political engagement

• Importance of distinguishing between political identity and identity in Christ

(1:17:34) Conclusion and future discussions

• Potential follow-up episode on political parties and Jesus as religions

• Invitation for listeners to engage in dialogue

• Plans for online community discussions on these issues

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101. Mormon Teachings and Anarchy: Uncovering the Path to Freedom

When Casey Beres walked away from the Mormon Church, he didn't just leave behind a congregation; he discovered a tapestry of anarchy and voluntaryism hidden within its teachings. In this profound discussion, we find unexpected solidarity with anarchist thought, as Casey unveils how the Book of Mormon's scriptures and doctrines mirror the principles of societal autonomy and individual freedom. Our exchange traverses religious and ideological frontiers, inviting both Mormons and non-Mormons to embrace the underlying values that bind us together as a global family. 

The conversation shifts as we contemplate the personal changes spurred by political disillusionment and debates over the constitution, intensified by the pandemic. As we consider the emotional impact of mandates on both individuals and communities, we delve into the debris of societal pressures. In doing so, we discover a widespread desire for a support network and a community that values individual choice, and we explore the role of authority and governance from a perspective of spiritual enlightenment, not political will.

Wrapping up, we look beyond the horizon of today's interpretations of LDS texts, questioning traditional views on government, war, and America's place in divine providence. We explore the notion of modern slavery within our own societal structures and discuss the frustrations of many modern Christians with the current state of affairs. 

We question divine providence in the American founding and probe the implications of the government's hand in modern slavery. Our quest for understanding takes us from the battlefield of American history to the heart of Christian anarchy, culminating in a call to action for the Mormon community to consider the anarchy threaded within their beliefs. Whether your interest lies in faith, freedom, or the crossroads where they meet, join us for a stimulating conversation that promises to challenge and enlighten.

Connect with the Casey Beres:

Substack: mackenziesspleen.substack.com

Bandcamp: Potbelly MacKraken

Key Moments:

00:02 Anarchy and the Book of Mormon

• Introduction of Casey Beres to discuss anarchy in the Book of Mormon context.

• Exploration of Casey's journey from the Mormon Church to anarchist insights.

• Discussion on the resonance of anarchy and volunteerism with broader anarchist community.

• Emphasis on commonalities that unite humans beyond individual beliefs.

• Importance of open dialogue for understanding and breaking down barriers.

08:04 Churches and Conversion to Anarchy

• Personal reflections on church, faith, and non-traditional worship.

• Preference for intimate gatherings over structured church services.

• Influence of anarchy on views of authority and community.

• Disconnection felt in family-centric church settings.

• Journey from political apathy to anarchy, inspired by figures like Ron Paul and Michael Malice.

18:27 COVID Horror Stories and Vaccine Mandates

• Personal impact of COVID-19 mandates on an individual with Tourette syndrome.

• Challenges of job loss and societal exclusion due to mandates.

• Importance of support networks during challenging times.

• Conflicts between state and federal regulations during the pandemic.

• Reflections on varied societal and political responses to the pandemic.

25:12 Understanding the LDS Scriptural Canon

• Exploration of anarchy in Mormon scripture, addressing misconceptions.

• Clarification of 'D&C' and other foundational Mormon texts.

• Examination of ancient and modern societies in Mormon scripture through an anarchistic lens.

• Anarchistic interpretation of scriptural events like the flood.

32:13 Anarchy in the Book of Mormon

• Inspirational similarities between the Bible, Book of Mormon, and D&C.

• Discussion on societies transitioning to democracy and anarchy in the Book of Mormon.

• Analysis of anarchy and voluntarism in the Book of Mormon narratives.

• Challenges in reconciling certain D&C sections with anarchistic principles.

39:28 Government and Anarchy in LDS Scriptures

• Examination of contradictions in Doctrine and Covenants 134 regarding government.

• Analysis of government's role in violating individual rights despite claims of protection.

• Discussion on the compatibility of divine endorsement with flawed human government.

• Reflection on implications for libertarians, anarchists, and constitutional conservatives.

49:43 Beliefs on God, Constitution, and Slavery

• Relationship between religion, nationalism, and government in LDS context.

• Debate on divine inspiration of the U.S. Constitution and America's founding.

• Comparison of historical chattel slavery to modern governmental control.

• Discussion on advocating for change and the irony of 'leaving the country'.

59:30 Frustration of Modern Christians and Anarchism

• Reflection on the U.S.'s history of conflict and personal transition in political beliefs.

• Exploration of Christian anarchy and Jesus' teachings against hierarchical control.

• Critique of religious and political leadership's misuse of influence.

• Biblical perspective on authority and leadership contrary to oppressive power structures.

01:09:07 Promoting Anarchy in the Mormon Community

• Challenges and goals in introducing anarchism to the Mormon community.

• Engagement with influential figures and feedback from church members.

• Importance of gradual change, personal humility, and the impact of the Bad Roman Project.

• Encouragement for others to contribute to dialogue through various platforms.

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100. Christian Ethics and Stateless Societies: The Anarchist Approach of the Perry Family

In the 100th episode of the podcast, host Craig Harguess is joined by guests Sarah and Jeff Perry from Voluntaryism in Action for a captivating exploration into the confluence of Christian values and the philosophy of anarchy. This milestone episode delves into the nuances of Christian Anarchism and Voluntarism, examining the personal metamorphoses that steer individuals away from traditional political paradigms toward a life of voluntary statelessness underpinned by faith. 

Throughout the episode, Sarah and Jeff Perry share the hurdles encountered in seeking a like-minded community and the challenges a society deeply ingrained with state-oriented ideologies poses. They shed light on the essence of fellowship and kinship, even in the digital sphere, for those who perceive themselves as misfits in a world unprepared for such radical ideas. The conversation also touches on the difficulty of communicating complex ideas over social media and the importance of giving people grace and meeting them where they are, as they were once in a similar position. The group emphasizes that the people they may joke about now were once reflections of their past selves, highlighting the transformative journey that led them to their current ideological stance. 

Taking an unexpected detour, the discussion ventures into the rustic world of homesteading, contrasting the merits of duck and chicken eggs and unpacking the symbolism it holds for Christian anarchists. This segment uncovers the layers of self-reliance and philosophical maturation, accompanied by a narrative of Jeff’s military service and how he underwent a profound ideological shift towards anarchism. 

The episode critically addresses the contentious interpretation of Romans 13 from an anarchist perspective, scrutinizing the alignment—or lack thereof—between modern democratic establishments and the teachings of Jesus. The discourse celebrates the significance of genuine leadership as demonstrated by Jesus, compared to the forceful rule often exhibited by earthly authorities. 

The discussion also spotlights the impactful initiatives of Voluntaryism in Action, emphasizing the human connections nurtured through voluntary charity. This starkly contrasts the impersonal touch of institutionalized aid, underscoring the human and spiritual dimensions of giving.

 Listeners are treated to a blend of humor, social commentary, and personal anecdotes that exemplify the intertwining of Christianity's core tenets with the principles of voluntaryism. As the 100th episode of the podcast, this thought-provoking journey offers an inspiring vision of community, support, and voluntary action shaped by love, grace, understanding, and Christian values.

Connect with the Perrys:

Website

Podcast: Voluntary View on Spotify, iTunes, Youtube

Key Moments:

00:02 Exploring Christian Anarchism and Voluntaryism

• Introduction to the intersection of Christianity and statelessness.

• Personal journeys from conventional politics to stateless existence based on Christian values.

• Importance of community, even if primarily online.

01:11 The Reach of the Bad Roman

• Discussion on the international reach of the podcast.

• Personal reflections on discovering Christian Anarchy.

• Surprise at finding a community with similar beliefs.

09:08 Duck Eggs and Freshly Laid Eggs

• Discussion on homesteading, duck vs. chicken eggs.

• Nutritional content and taste comparison.

• Personal anecdotes about self-sufficiency and philosophical evolution.

15:22 - Military Transition to Anarchism & Non-Judgmental Dialogue

• A former military medical officer's ideological shift towards anarchism.

• Impact of literature and libertarian thought on worldview.

• Emphasis on non-judgmental engagement within the anarchist community.

23:13 Christian Anarchism and the Bad Project

• Craig's journey from neoconservatism to Christian anarchism.

• Misconceptions about Christian Anarchy clarified.

• Sharing personal revelations about faith and statelessness.

26:41 Facebook Thread Drama and Miscommunication

• Addressing miscommunication and drama in a Facebook thread.

• Emphasis on understanding different perspectives within anarchism.

30:05 Understanding Anarchy and Romans 13 (11 Minutes)

• Interpretation of Romans 13 in the context of Christian anarchy.

• Biblical examples of resistance to secular authorities.

• Addressing objections related to submission to governing authorities.

33:57 Not Voting and Complaining About Government

• Discussion on Craig's decision not to vote and its implications.

• The counterintuitive nature of the argument that non-voters cannot complain.

38:41 Voluntarism and Anarchy

• Explanation of voluntarism as a subset of anarchy.

• Voluntarism focuses on voluntary interactions without coercion.

41:22 Religion, Government, and Accountability

• Differences between authority figures and authoritarianism.

• Critique of representative democracy and accountability.

• Reflection on the role of law enforcement and early church teachings.

49:57 Christian Anarchism and Voluntaryism Action

• Exploration of how Voluntaryism in Action embodies Christian Anarchist principles.

• Discussion on the organization's initiatives and community impact.

• Tension between Christianity and statism in church settings.

• Discomfort with nationalistic practices in worship.

• Early Christian teachings versus modern interpretations post-Constantine.

55:42 Voluntaryism

• Origins and evolution of a charitable organization, Voluntaryism in Action.

• Challenges and misconceptions surrounding non-profit work.

• Importance of voluntary giving and the impact of government programs on charity.

57:07 Obtaining & Maintaining 501(c)3 Status

• The process and challenges of obtaining 501(c)3 status for the organization.

• Insights into maintaining non-profit status and its importance.

01:04:18 Voluntaryism in Action

• Celebration of the work and achievements of Voluntaryism in Action.

• Personal anecdotes that underscore the organization's ethos.

01:09:36 Discussion on Voluntaryism in Action

• Impactful work of Voluntaryism in Action aligned with Christian values.

• Encouragement for listener support through donations or involvement.

• Challenges of social media censorship.

01:11:39 Twitter Campaigns and Content Restrictions

• Addressing the impact of content restrictions on social media campaigns.

• The organization's approach to creating and sharing provocative content.

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99. God's Country or Jesus’s Kingdom? Navigating the Nexus of Nationalism and Faith in America

Could the intertwining of faith and state authority be warping the very soul of Christianity? Unlock the complexities of Christian nationalism as we sit down for a round table to dissect the idolatrous juxtaposition of faith and governance. This episode dissects the potential hazards of conflating faith with state authority and how this can distort genuine religious practice and the core tenets of Christianity itself.

Join your host, Craig Harguess, along with friends of the show Chris Polk, Cody Cook, Paul Parayil, and Darren Freidinger, who help us peel back the layers of entanglement to reveal the true call of Faith. Witness a bold examination of Christian nationalism's historical claims and current implications in the realm of politics and social justice. 

As echoes of January 6th reverberate through the national consciousness, we scrutinize its portrayal as a Christian nationalist insurrection and the subsequent impact on political landscapes. The breach, the media's narrative, and the political fallout are dissected with a critical lens, contrasting the motives behind these actions with the broader implications for American society. We confront the seductive pull of cultural identity and the struggle to prioritize important global issues over trivial cultural squabbles. 

Through this dialogue, we strive to foster a deeper understanding of how a desire for a 'Christian nation' impacts both the spiritual body of Christ and our broader societal fabric. With a laid-back yet critical approach, we discuss the importance of curiosity and questioning in religious communities, advocating for meaningful action against social injustices rather than getting lost in cultural distractions. The panel lays out a thought-provoking journey through the contradictions of Christian nationalism, inviting you to reflect, question, and expand your understanding of faith in the public square.

The digital age has transformed the battleground of ideas, and we explore the challenges of engaging in meaningful discourse on social media amid generational technology. As we draw to a close, we advocate for deeper awareness and action, urging listeners not to be sidetracked by fleeting controversies but to remain steadfast in the pursuit of no king but Christ. Tune in for a thought-provoking journey through the contradictions and complexities of Christian nationalism.

Connect with Cody Cook:

• Libertarian Christian Insitute

• Podcast - Cantus Firmus

• Book - What Belongs to Caesar

• Listen to episode 89, Navigating Revivals in Christianity with Cody Cook

Connect with Chris Polk:

• Blue Ribbon Podcast

• Blue Ribbon Logistics

• Tik Tok

• Listen to More Bad Roman Episodes with Chris Polk:

  • Lessons from the Trucking Industry with Chris Polk, EP 77

  • Your Rights with Chris Polk & Jacob Daniel, EP 38

  • Home School: 2021 Year-End Round Table, EP 47

Connect with Paul Parayil:

• Paul Varkey Parayil on Facebook

Key Moments:

01:20 Christian Nationalism and Its Contradictions

• Christianity Today Article: What Is Christian Nationalism?

• Critiqued for distorting religious practice and undermining Christian principles.

• Enforcement of state authority is a key concern.

05:11 Christian Nationalism and the New Covenant

• Inconsistencies with Jesus' teachings are highlighted.

• Cherry-picking from the Old Testament discussed with guest Cody Cook.

15:20 Christian Nationalism and State Role

• Examination of Christian nationalism and its contrast with a kingdom culture mindset.

• Emphasis on the spiritual body of Christ over earthly rulers.

27:52 The Impact of Christian Nationalism

• Growth of the church during persecution discussed.

• Detachment from state affairs, detrimental effects, and pitfalls of striving for a "Christian nation."

33:13 January 6th and Christian Nationalism Discussion

• Discussion on the Capitol breach on January 6th.

• Examination of Christian nationalism, media portrayal, politicians' response, and intentions vs. implications of actions.

43:54 Exploring Christian Nationalism in Politics

• Aftermath of January 6th discussed.

• Accusations of Christian nationalism, manipulation by agencies, spectrum of ideologies, and complex relationship between American and Christian identities.

58:49 Challenges of Social Media Discourse

• Christian nationalism debates on social media.

• Generational gap in technology use, lack of curiosity in education and religion, and strategy for online discourse.

01:08:32 Christian Nationalism and Cultural Identity

• American democracy's defense of Anglo-Protestant culture discussed.

• Exclusion of Catholics and Orthodox believers, trivial cultural controversies distracting from pressing social injustices.

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