98. The Devil’s Lettuce: Cannabis and Jesus a Christian Roundtable

About this Episode

In this eye-opening episode of the Bad Roman Podcast, we venture into the intricate, complex, and often misunderstood realm of marijuana. Your host for this thought-provoking journey is Craig Harguess, accompanied by a diverse group of guests - Scott, Aaron, Jim, and William. 

Each brings to the table their personal encounters, knowledge, and unique viewpoints on the topic of marijuana use, which goes beyond the clichéd stereotypes and delves into societal, legal, and religious dimensions. Our intention with this episode is to challenge the prevailing misconceptions, stimulate intellectual discourse, and provide a fresh perspective on marijuana. 

We aim to demystify the subject and explore its multi-faceted dimensions – from the societal implications of marijuana use to the controversial war on drugs, and from the adverse effects of government propaganda to the potential medical benefits of marijuana. One of the significant areas of discussion is the comparison of marijuana with pharmaceutical drugs and alcohol. In a world where prescription drugs and alcohol consumption are largely normalized, we delve into the complex question of whether marijuana, a naturally occurring plant, is inherently any more harmful or beneficial. 

From a religious perspective, the episode ventures into uncharted territory as it discusses the place of marijuana in Christian teachings. Rooted in the belief that God is the ultimate creator, our host, and guests explore the concept that marijuana, as a part of God's creation, may have a significant role to play. They navigate through scripture and theology, bringing forth interpretations that aim to challenge conventional beliefs. 

Throughout this illuminating discussion, we are constantly reminded that this conversation is not about advocating for 'potheads', but rather about the legality and morality of a God-created plant. 

The goal is to encourage an understanding of cannabis that transcends the stigma and stereotypes, helping us to better comprehend the complexities of state power, control, and the choices we make as Christians. The conversation dives deep into the heart of the controversy surrounding marijuana - the legal implications, mass incarceration, and societal perception of marijuana use. It brings to light the interplay of political power and public opinion, questioning the narratives we've been fed and urging us to think critically about the societal structures that govern us.

 This enlightening episode of the Bad Roman Podcast invites you to partake in a thought-provoking conversation, unraveling the intricacies, complexities, and controversies surrounding marijuana. Whether you are a believer or not, this discussion seeks to broaden your understanding and encourage a more informed perspective on marijuana use. 

Join us on the Bad Roman Podcast as we embark on this exploratory journey, challenging preconceived notions, stimulating deeper conversations, and fostering an open-minded, nuanced understanding of marijuana use. Prepare to have your perspectives challenged, your curiosity piqued, and your understanding of this God-created plant transformed.

Learn More About this Topic:

Endocannabinoid System Facebook

Araon’s Instagram @heavyicerx

Episode Timestamps:

(00:02) Christian Perspectives on Marijuana Use

Marijuana, Christianity, and the state are discussed with guests sharing personal experiences and views on government regulation.

(11:02) Perspectives on Marijuana

Jim shares his experience growing up in a rural area where marijuana was stigmatized, but later discovered its widespread use among adults.

(19:19) From Pharmaceuticals to Cannabis

Aaron shares his personal experience with marijuana for chronic pain, limitations of pharmaceuticals, growing own medicine, and promoting natural remedies.

(27:17) Lack of Trust in Medical Industry

Erosion of trust in medical industry, influence of pharmaceutical companies, demonization of marijuana by church and government, importance of education on cannabis.

(31:31) Marijuana, Alcohol, and Control

Personal experiences, war on drugs, and power dynamics surrounding marijuana's legalization and impact on mass incarceration.

(43:13) Marijuana and the Stigma Debate

Nature's purpose for marijuana, stigma and stereotypes, fear-mongering tactics, modern-day perception, and charity donations.

(55:56) Effects of Marijuana on Individuals

Nature's marijuana: personal experiences, benefits and drawbacks, societal judgments, potential for managing anxiety and stress.

(01:02:31) Marijuana's Benefits and Conversation

Participants share experiences with marijuana for anxiety and pain, considering its benefits and religious perspective.

(01:14:07) Discussion on Marijuana and Religious Perspectives

Cannabis and faith are discussed, acknowledging its positive effects on anxiety and the natural goodness of the plant.

(01:24:41) Marijuana

Nature's healing properties of marijuana are explored, challenging stigma and promoting understanding through personal experiences and recommended resources.

(01:29:40) Personal Transformations and New Opportunities

Host's updates: new vehicle, wife's higher-paying job, leaving job, exploring opportunities, homeschooling, coding, coaching, starting podcast. Grateful for brothers' support. Assisting with weight loss and addiction. Emphasizes healthy diet. Love and appreciation for listeners.

(01:34:58) Beliefs, Apparel, and Social Media

The panel discuss cannabis benefits, wearing podcast apparel, and potential pushback for their beliefs.

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94. Faith, Fitness, Stewardship with Adam Braud

About this Episode

Imagine having a personal trainer, functional nutritionist, author, and pastor all rolled into one guest. Well, we certainly did! Join us as we get up close and personal with Adam Braud, a man who has dedicated over three decades to Christian ministry and uniquely combines it with his passion for health and fitness. 

Using Adam’s book Faith and Fitness: Integrating Physical Health and Spiritual Growth As we navigate through the discussion, we dissect the pivotal role of lifestyle choices in shaping our holistic health. We unwrap how taking care of our bodies can lead to a more fulfilling life and deeper self-perception and what that has to do with Jesus. Adam broadens our understanding of stewardship, shedding light on its significance beyond mere physicality. Adam provides insight into the significance of disciplined health goals, good sleep, and self-care that goes beyond surface-level or guru-style health advice. 

We wrap up this enlightening episode by debunking health myths and discussing diets and weight loss strategies. Are you curious about the cold plunges or intermittent fasting? Adam's insightful advice on tailoring health strategies and tools to individual needs will clear your doubts. Whether you are a fitness enthusiast or a health journey newbie, this conversation is an excellent guide to caring for your physical body as part of your spiritual growth. So tune in and be inspired to better steward your health!

Connect with Adam Braud:

E-Book

Adam's Website

Instagram

Facebook

1:41 Who is Adam?

• Personal trainer and pastor

• Travel to more countries than states

• E-book Author

3:15 Health Awakening of Covid

• Memphis Judo & JuJitsu

• Vitamin D

7:10 Faith and Fitness

• Focusing on spiritual growth while ignoring physical health

• Treating the body like an amusement park vs. a temple

• Vanity vs. health

• Fellowshiping over exercise

• Fear of being perceived as shallow

• Fat-shaming, being fatphobic

• Fear of being overweight

• External and internal confidence

• Healthspan vs. Lifespan

• Quality of life vs. quantity of life

• God’s creation includes us

• Be a steward of your body

24:40 Diseases of Lifestyle and Affluence

• COVID shutdown of gyms but not fast food lines

• Use common sense before blindly trusting the government

• Eating for nourishment vs. energy

30:50 Three Major Reasons Christians Nelgect Caring for Their Physical Body

• Poor teaching/discipleship on the topic

• Focused on winning people to the Lord vs. taking care of the self

• Paul the “full Gospel”

• Enternity/inevitability of death and not caring about caring about our bodies

• Comparison to others and feeling of “it’s too late”

• Health is a journey and the only way on is to start taking steps

• Getting 1% better is still getting better

• Progression is not linear, it compounds, your 100% in a year can be you 150% today

39:29 Living like an unsupervised kid with diet and sleep

• Proverbs 29:18

• Where there is no vision people cast off restraint

• We need to have a vision for our health – it constrains us, and allows us to have direction vs. being all over the map

• Emotional healing of chocolate, pizza, and beer

• Want-based vs. need-based

• Taking responsibility for yourself and your health

• Discipline is a good thing

• Joco Willing “discipline equals freedom” – if I am disciplined I have margin to have fun

• Prioritizing sleep 

• Daylight savings time and heart attacks

• Importance of sleep

• Alezhezimers, dementia, hormones, regulation of systems

• Mental health diagnosis and sleep

53:48 One-size-fits-all plan for diet?

• Basic Principles: 

• Not overeating is one of the best things you can do

• High-quality foods i.e. whole foods (if it walked on the earth, swam on the see, came out of the ground or a tree) that require some digesting

• If it’s in a box think twice about it

• Everyone is an individual and processes things differently

• Try to keep processed sugars down

• Prioritize protein 

1:00:27 Intermittent Fasting & Cold Plunging

• Both are tools in the health space

• Intermittent fasting can be a stressor

• Protein shortage with intermittent fasting (protect your muscle mass)

• Cold Plunge can be great for joint pain

• Energizing effect because of shock

• Can have testosterone and brown fat effects over time

• Nothing in the health space is a cure-all end-all – it’s not secret knowledge, don’t fall into the trap of guru knowledge and snake oil

1:11:05 Where to connect with Adam

• E-Book

• adambraud.com/

• Instagram

• Facebook

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81. Unmasking the Truth Behind COVID-19 with Jeffrey Hann

About this Episode

In this eye-opening episode of The Bad Roman, we dive deep into the complex world of the COVID-19 pandemic with our guest, Jeffrey Hann, author of the book titled Covid-19 – Short Path to you’ll Own Nothing and You’ll be Happy. Our conversation covers a wide range of subjects that challenge the mainstream narrative, offering valuable insights and thought-provoking discussion points.

We begin by exploring Jeffrey's background, which includes experiences in the military, political analysis, libertarianism, and the rave scene. He shares his unique method of critical thinking, which involves grammar, logic, and rhetoric, and how it has helped him to examine various topics, including climate change and anarchism.

As we discuss the absurd behaviors during the pandemic, such as mask exceptions and social pressure, we question the validity of mask usage and whether they may be doing more harm than good. We also delve into the role of police (aka policy enforcers) in enforcing bad policies and ponder whether we truly live in a free country.

The conversation turns to the controversial mRNA vaccines and the reasons to be suspicious of their rapid development and rollout. We discuss the potential link between vaccines and various health issues, as well as the lack of accountability by those in power.

In exploring the fine line between conspiracy and questioning, we discuss the digital dollar push, potential new viruses, and the possible use of the vaccine as a biological weapon. We then examine who has profited from the pandemic and question whether the government cares more about profits than the long-term health of its citizens.

As we cover the erosion of self-sufficiency and market unpredictability, we touch on the voluntary reporting system of adverse vaccine experiences (VAERS) and the concept of "safe and effective." Finally, Jeffrey shares his understanding of Christ as an anarchist who fought against tyranny and offers insight into his book "COVID-19 to You'll Own Nothing and You'll Be Happy."

Don't miss this fascinating and thought-provoking episode that challenges the status quo and encourages critical thinking on the COVID-19 pandemic and its aftermath.

Jeffrey Hann:

BOOK

WEBSITE: Journalistic Revolution

Episode Timestamps:

1:06 Why Jeffrey is on the show

• Paul Perol

2:00 Jeffrey’s Background

• PLUR (peace, love, unity) in the rave scene

• Military, political analyst, author

• Libertarianism, Ron Paul

5:02 Trivia Method of Critical Thinking

• Grammar, logic, rhetoric

• Climate Change and anarchism

7:24 Writing to Refine Rhetoric

• Jefferies articles

•  19,000-word report on covid in 2022

• Chapter layout and intention

11:36 Critical thinking

• Kerry Baldwin

• Absurd behaviors during covid

• Mask exceptions and social pressure

16:51 Is there a valid case for masks the way most people use them?

• Self-responsibility

• The challenge of using a mask properly

• Mask ratings, sealing, fit, and wear time, proper PPE use

• Could the mask be making you sicker?

• Keeping your hands clean

24:36 Is our food safe/helping keep us healthy?

• Public indoctrination

• Mcdonald’s was open and gyms were closed in Covid

• Defending the cops for enforcing bad policy

• Do we live in a free country?

• People forget very fast

• Gold Fish Mentality

30:18 The Thin Blue Line

• Modern-day redcoats

• Policy enforcers are the boots on the ground violating our rights

• 13th Amendment

• Free of slavery unless convicted of a crime

•  Supreme Court – no obligation to protect and serve

• Public Schools foster blind obedience to authority

35:17 Reasons to be suspicions of the mRNA Vaccine Push

• Gene Therapy

• Hard to find information

37:07 Policy Enforcers, Guns, and State Power

• Do you want the government to have guns?

• 2and Amendment is intended to be a check on the government not citizens

• Government is not static

• Global Tyranny is what we are headed toward

• Was covid a test to see how the global population would react?

• If anyone should not trust the government it’s Christians

• Jesus was killed by the state

44:24 The Vaccine Chaos and Future Health Cautions

• Religious exemptions

• Spike proteins and mRNA vaccine

• Buffalo Bills NFL player Hamlin collapse

• Could it be vaccine related?

• Australia Database

• RSV

53:59 Lack of accountability by those in power

• Arresting Trump for money vs mass murder

• Trump brought us the vaccines

• Liability free with the FDA and government funds

• Ohio Derailment

59:52 The fine line between conspiracy and questioning

• “Man in the middle attacks”

• Information scrubbing

• Is the vaccine a biological weapon

• The digital dollar push

• Has the next virus already been developed?

• Vitamin deficiencies 

• D & C & Zinc

1:11:08 Who profited from the pandemic?

• Pfizer and Moderna stock

• Its connection to members of Congress (most owned stock)

• Fauci patented HIV sequence

• Making money off taxpayer money

1:16:10 Does the government care about your long-term health or profits?

• Vaccine Commercial Marketing

• Vanguard and Black Rock own most of everything we buy

• Seed Oils

• Our food system has been poisoned

• Fresh eggs & meat vs. store-bought

• Increase in the price of eggs

1:23:33 Erosion of self-sufficiency and market unpredictability

• Lack of a unified American Culture

• Are we being infiltrated from within or destroying ourselves?

1:29:11 VAERS

• Voluntary reporting system of adverse vaccine experiences

• What is “safe and effective” — how much time is needed to know

1:35:03 Jeffrey’s Understanding of Christ 

• Jesus was an anarchist

• Against tyranny

• Balenciaga Runway Show

• Stantanism

• Sam Smith's Unholy Performance

• God is a pure source of consciousness

1:43:40 How to find Jeffrey’s book and where to learn more about him

• Book: Covid-19 Short Path to you’ll Own Nothing and You’ll be Happy

• More writing and website: Journalistic Revolution

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77. Lessons from the Trucking Industry with Chris Polk

About this Episode

In this episode Craig welcomes back Chris Polk, “professional hornet’s nest kicker”, podcaster, content creator, trainer and truck owner-operator at Blue Ribbon Logistics. Chris regales Craig with stories about everything from how he found success in the trucking world, to history lessons, and about how government and citizens wreaked havoc with supply chains during covid times. Additionally, Chris tells how collusion between big corporations and government have led to over-regulation, driving shipping costs up and resulting in tough times for every-day truckers. That said Chris pulls no punches while discussing the things that truckers have done to make their own situations worse. 

Chris gives his best advice on how to become rich, with principles that will work whether you are interested in joining the trucking industry or not. The great news is that you have something unique to offer the world. If you combine that something with some good maths (get yourself a BS Eliminator 9000, otherwise known as a calculator), hard work and a customer centric focus you too will become wealthy. It will not be easy, but if you build your life in such a way that you give value to others by helping them to get what they want, money will naturally flow your way.

Find Blue Ribbon Logistics: 

YouTube

TikTok

Facebook

Website

Episode Timestamps:

1:04 - Who is Chris Polk?

• Enjoys stirring

• A trucker for 25 years

• Owner-operator of trucking business

• Podcast host at Blue Ribbon Logistics

• Training truck drivers to be owner-operators

• Content creator on YouTube

4:56 – Blue Ribbon Logistics

• Met Larry Long and went to work for him

• Began having Larry on his podcast

• The podcast brought them dedicated truckers

• Created a program to train them how to earn as a trucker

• Business only works when it's competitive and customer focussed

• You can have anything you want if you help enough other people get what they want

• Never thought he’d have to teach all sorts of people maths and map reading

• Calculator is the BS Eliminator 9000

• Craig would make a terrible truck driver 

• He’d be too busy napping on the side of the road

• Driving a truck and a car are two different things

21:45 - Broken supply chains and broke truckers

• Products were manufactured just in time to get them onto the trailer or the assembly line

• It used to be a finely tuned machine

• 2020 broke it with toilet paper

• Cascade effect means trucking has been in a state of crisis since March 2020

• Peoples spending drove demand

• People brought trucks for work 

• Truck prices went up

• Market demand is going back down 

• Those who bought overpriced trucks will go broke

• Truckers blame fuel costs and the government

27:09 – Lesson in supply line history

• Separation of church and state is a distraction

• The danger lies in the collusion of corporations and state

• Mark Levison – The Box

• When the market was deregulated in 1980 it made shipping more efficient

• Allowing for more competition by individuals

• Explosion of economic activity

• These days there are so many middle-men that it has driven the cost of shipping up

• Blockchain might make it more efficient again

• Any time there’s a bottleneck, you can generally find a bureaucrat standing in the middle of it

• There are a million single truck owner-operators

• That’s a third of the trucks on the road

• They haul the majority of life’s necessities

• Big businesses can’t keep up so they are lobbying for regulations that will wipe out the owner-operators in costs

• Truck makers make more money as more legislation is added

• Little guys can’t afford new trucks

• The state does the bidding of 15% of the trucking industry

33:15 – The biggest scam in trucking history

• The biggest scam in trucking history on YouTube

• No license points for warnings until 2008

• Chris got 30 points from one inspection

• No actual violations

• At his latest inspection, he fixed a light

• Another 18 points even though the light worked

• Fines came next

• Even though there were no violations

38:28 – The cheap driver shortage

• Subsidies from the state for hiring drivers

• There is a shortage of cheap drivers

• The largest expense at big corporations is wages for the drivers

• But they haul easy bulk stuff for cheap

• People like Chris are paid more for specialized freight

• You can’t idiot-proof a truck

• A bad driver is going to have problems

43:50 – The price of eggs and corruption

• Eggs are expensive

• Is this because the state interfered with supply chains?

• It costs Blue Ribbon about $200,000 per year to run a truck

• There are 3 million trucks on the road

• Reducing the cost of fuel won’t help that

• There’s inflation

• There’s manipulation

• Corrupt money

• Corrupt processes

• Shipping container costs quadrupled

47:15 – How to become wealthy

• Turn the television off

• Don’t make decisions based on fear

• You can control your own life and make better decisions

• Boom and Bust is the pattern of economics

• Build your life in a way that you create value for others

• Once you get that right the wealth comes

• That doesn’t make it easy

• Find a niche

• It will be uncomfortable

• Be unaffected by BS crisis

55:44 – Fauci

• Would be happy to see him handcuffed

• He’ll end up in the evil hall of fame alongside Hitler one day

• One day in heaven we may want forgiveness for him when he has to explain himself to Jesus

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74. Can We Love More Than We Hate with Hodey Johns

About this Episode

This week Craig is joined by Hodey Johns, co-host of the Enemy of My Enemy podcast from the We Are Libertarians Network. They discuss focussing on love that looks like how God loves us, contrasting these with social media discussions that look more like hate. They talk about political statements that assume God hates those on the wrong end of our favorite policies. However, Christians shouldn't even be on the political spectrum. Can the love of Jesus be made visible when we fight online over our political positioning?

The Israelites received laws from the very hand of God, but they missed His heart for humanity to follow their consciences in loving their neighbors. Not even Jewish regulations could justify people in the sight of God because love is the fulfillment of the law. Jesus proved this when he righteously ignored the Levitical laws, and the Pharisees proved that one could follow the rules perfectly and still be unrighteous.

Unfortunately, we haven't learned this; hate may be more natural to Christians than love. We fail to worship God according to His desires when we fail to love those around us. As Christians, rather than looking for the boundaries we should not step on and assume that the rest of our conduct is loving, we need to seek the narrow path and aggressively love everyone, including our enemies. After all, this is how Christ first loved us.

Hodey Johns:

·       Facebook

·       Instagram

·       Twitter

Episode Timestamps:

1:56 – Introduction to Hodey Johns

·       Loves debates

·       Theologian

·       Writes about video games

·       Parents weren't very interested in their own Christian faith

o   Hodey was self-taught in Christianity and the Bible from a young age

·       Became a Mormon for 15 years

·       Lived all over the states

o   Noticed that Christian culture differs from place to place

6:19 – Christians on Social Media

·       Do more Christians need to put themselves out there on social media?

·       People don't change their minds in an instant or one conversation

o   They contemplate new ideas for a while

o   Like planting a new tree, waiting and tasting its fruit

·       We can't let others do the theological thinking for us

o   Not even religious folks

o   Jesus called the Pharisees a brood of vipers

·       No Christian has everything figured out

o   Christianity is a process

o   But we don't need to worry because we know who God is

16:14 – Love one another and love your enemy

·       Christians have a tough time balancing being in the world but not of the world

·       Thankfully, it's not all over once you sin

·       When you sin and recover, you get better

·       Christians wield hate and fear as a conversion method

o   We have all experienced hate

o   As Christians, we know that hate is evil

·       Love is the highest commandment

o   Jesus loved us and died for us

o   Would we give up our lives for those we are fighting with on social media

·       Love is not just the absence of hate

·       We ought to be aggressively loving

o   Christianity is a narrow path

·       Christianity should not be us saying, "God opposes [insert pet peeve here]"

·       There is real hate from both left- and right-wing Christians

·       Christians should not be on a political spectrum

·       Biden's student loan debt write-offs are not forgiveness

·       The left likes to think it has a monopoly on love

·       Jesus only spoke in parables to the public

o   Stories of love and goodness

o   We should be using stories too and asking, "who is the loving neighbour?"

·       Moral choices are required for good deeds to be produced

·       Paying taxes is not a virtue

33:09 – How ethical is the law?

·       Immigrants from Mexico who come to better their lives are human beings too

o   They cross an imaginary line to come here

o   The law of the land is in opposition to God's law

o   They only come to eat and feed their families

o   Christians don't seem to understand this

o   They are still image bearers of God

·       Jewish law was superior to today's laws

o   They still condemned people

o   They still allowed for the killing of Jesus Christ

·       The Bible can be summarised as people trying to justify themselves by the law

o   It was to show the way to being led by the Holy Spirit

o   It was to give the Israelites time to escape the slave mentality of Egypt

·       Where is your faith?

o   Do politicians protect you and your nation?

o   It should be in Jesus Christ

o   Why are Christians scared of immigrants?

o   In Jesus' death and resurrection Christianity grew

·       Christianity's hey-day was when Christians were stateless

·       The Israelites' laws changed from chapter to chapter of Leviticus

o   The law was being revised constantly

§  God was stable; His people were not

o   They couldn't enter the promised land until they realised the law could not save them

·       Even the wandering Israelites went astray when they tried to turn their relationship with God into a law-based system

40:19 – We can't legislate love.

·       The complex legal system that we have cannot be used to promote Christian values

o   The Israelites walked together with God and couldn't make the law work

·       Laws are written on paper, but let's try to figure out what is right

·       The will of God is to love one another

o   Love is the command

o   We worship someone else when we fail to love

·       When Christians think they are God, they become hateful

·       Are you really a Christian if you are not moving towards love?

·       Are we being motivated by the love of Christ?

45:57 – Church is unappealing when we don't have love

·       Church attendance has dropped off since 2013

·       There are reasons why people don't go to church

o   Hate-filled sermons

o   Hate-filled conversations with people after church

·       Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax-collectors

o   We should also be showing them the love of Christ

·       Jesus' measure of how to get into heaven was to forgive and not judge others

o   That is mentioned more often than other methods usually suggested

·       Homosexuality is not a sin

·       Whosoever is angry with his brother is at risk of being judged

·        Jesus said himself that if you call someone gay, you are in danger of being judged

·       Wanting to punish people crossing a border is wrong

·       Jesus ignored the law and healed on the Sabbath

o   This is why Hodey trashes the law

o   Jesus never denied breaking the Sabbath

·       The scriptures are stories of people working out morality in a complex world

·       The transformation of your heart is all that matters

·       You can break the law and be right

·       You can follow the Levitical law and be wrong

o   The Pharisees proved it

·       Jesus ignored the laws, so we can ignore immoral laws also

1:05:47 – Smoked meats

·       During covid, Hodey picked up a smoking meats hobby

·       Smoking meat makes Hodey a better person

o   It's a philosophical journey

o   The community is full of nice people

·       Well-cooked brisket is a bad piece of meat turned good through cooking

·       Mesquite trees make the best-smoked meats

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69. From angry An-Cap to peaceful Christian with John Krueger

About this Episode

Craig is joined by John Krueger for a conversation about his journey from being an angry Anarcho-Capitalist to a peaceful Anarcho-Christian. Unjust police killings, SWAT raids gone wrong and harsh lockdowns made John angry. He was eager to learn how to use a gun and imagined himself needing to protect his family from police violence. In the midst of this, the Holy Spirit met John and showed him a peaceful option.

Libertarian philosophy is peaceful, but we need Jesus and His word to have the whole picture. Craig and John advocate for Christian pacifism and examine what was going on in their hearts at the points when they both contemplated joining the military. Craig and John discuss the libertarian and Christian anarchist positions on the decriminalization of drugs, the real needs of terrorists, the US at war, gun control, and other contentious current issues.

The state is coercion and violence. Laws are enforced with fines that are begrudgingly paid to avoid the threat of violence or time spent in a cage. You cannot make people peaceful like this, using the state’s methods. But rather, we need to be those who allow the Holy Spirit to work in us to change the hearts and minds of those surrounding us; that is how social change works in the Kingdom. Let’s listen to Jesus and do things His way, forsaking violence and anger. Let’s work towards peace.

Connect with John Krueger on

• Practical Christology

• TikTok

Episode Timestamps:

1:27 – Who is John Krueger?

• From Columbus, Ohio

  • Grew up attending church

• 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 stood out

  • Paul writes about grace

• Journey to anarchism

  • Read Blue Like Jazz

    • Jesus was not a republican or a conservative

    • Became politically independent

  • Eventually considered voting

    • Began researching libertarianism

      • Clicked with his understanding of the Grace of God

  • Took a few more years to become an anarcho-capitalist

8:58 – Libertarians, drugs, and terrorists

• It’s easy to understand decriminalizing marijuana 

• Harder to understand decriminalizing heroin use

  • People shouldn’t be locked in a cage for it

  • People should be free to make their own choices

    • Provided they aren’t hurting others

• Osama Bin Laden needed Jesus

  • Not bombs

  • We can’t bomb people into peace

    • If we bomb all sinners, there will be no one left

• John and Craig let go of the war stuff last

  • The history of the Middle East is important

  • The US is still at war

    • More people are mad at the US for continuously bombing them

• Jesus said in His Kingdom:

  • You rule by washing feet

    • Only pagans lord it over their subjects

  • But instead, our “Christian Nation” goes to war

    • To spread democracy

• We don’t need the government for roads

• We don’t need police

• Losing friends because of speaking out about:

  • Getting troops home

  • Veteran suicides

  • Broken men and families

  • Sending the poor to fight a rich man’s war

20:11 – Craig and John considered joining the military

• Craig wanted to kill people out of anger after 911

  • Application rejected

    • 4 pounds over the weight limit

• John wanted to join the military because he felt powerless

  • Wanted to be great in battle - like David

  • Experienced God’s compassion for those killed on both sides

• Christians still justify war and killing

  • Jesus said when you have seen me, you have seen the Father

  • There is nothing about Jesus’ life that says you can kill in war

• Pacifism is the way for Christians

  • Craig still gets a hard time from Christians for his pacifist stance

  • The early church was 100% pacifist

    • Even to their own deaths

  • Jesus healed the Roman soldier and admonished Peter

    • When Jesus disarmed Peter, he disarmed every Christian

26:24 – Libertarians and Gun Control

• After shootings those on the left talk about taking away guns

• But guns will be taken away by force

  • Giving more power to the state

• Need to study history

• We don’t advocate for gun control

  • It’s enforced by violence

  • We should bear God’s peace instead

• The left sees calls to reduce state size as calls to let people starve

• John does not own guns, 

  • Only advocates for less government action

• We don’t use the state for any reason

• The same people who take guns away are those who shoot unarmed black men

• Fines are enforced through the threat of violence

• The ‘hero’ who ended the life of a would-be shooter still ended a life

• Jesus would not be training churches to enact violence

• We are here to bring the gospel to people

37:10 – From angry An-Cap to peaceful Christian Anarchist

• When John was an An-Cap he was angry at the state

  • Police killings made him angry

  • Made him want to get into guns

• Angry at government shutdowns because of shutdowns

• Holy Spirit showed him it would be better to defy the government in peaceful ways

  • Sneakily helping people

  • Blessing those who curse

  • Not needing to worry about what to say in front of judges

• Libertarians are never happy with the government

  • No matter who is in power they are stuffing everything up

  • Anger is not the fruit of the spirit

• Romans 11-14 need to be read together

  • Our heart position should be peaceful

• Libertarians need Jesus to have the full picture

42:48 – Romans 13 and libertarianism

• “Submit” and “obey” are not the same

  • When Christians get it wrong: 

    • They end up supporting government atrocities

    • Lives will be ruined

    • The state becomes an idol

• The early church withheld communion from people who worked for the state

  • Unless people were already soldiers

    • And had sworn off killing or oppressing people

    • None wore their weapons

    • All were to serve

• Getting Christians into power will not help

  • It is no longer Christianity

• The power is the wrong power

  • The Holy Spirit is the only power we need

  • Political power is force

  • Christians do not need to take the ”Seven Mountains” of power

  • These do not sound like Jesus

• Polycarp would not denounce Jesus

  • In the face of his own death

  • King Jesus has never done me any harm

• Everything that the state does harms somebody in some fashion

  • If they are helping you, they are harming someone else

  • The state is not a protector

• Jesus Christ is the only King

  • He wants the best for us

54:12 – How should we pray for government?

• We should pray for government and leaders

  • Craig prays for the state to end

  • The current chaos is caused by the state

  • We need to follow Jesus and walk away

  • John prays for leadership to know the gospel

    • Not the American folklore

    • But the true gospel

• Craig will take the words of the early church fathers over pastors

  • When modern pastors disagree with the early church

  • They still screwed things up

  • They aren’t Jesus

  • They were closer in time to Jesus

  • We need to get back to that

    • What we are doing now as the church is not working

• The Reformers had a blind spot when it came to the church

  • They killed people

• The Anabaptists became the Mennonites and Amish

  • They were peaceful

• Catholics are going back to mysticism

  • The church fathers and grace teachings

1:02:54 – Let’s bring it back to Jesus

• Listen to Jesus

  • Love your neighbor

  • Love your enemy

  • Love God

• It’s impossible to follow His teachings

  • But we should try:

    • Working towards good

    • Not working toward violence

    • Not working towards anger or hate

    • Working towards peace

---

Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

59. Jesus, Memes, War, and Canadian Truckers with Nathan Chavoya, Tony & Abby Cleckner

About this episode

For episode 59 of the podcast, Craig is joined by (sometimes) co-host Abby Cleckner for a conversation with fellow podcasters, Nathan Chavoya and his co-host Tony, to talk about the power of memes, their podcast Reality Czars, and, of course, Jesus.

We covered a wide variety of topics in this episode, from why we use memes to Amish communities and the pros and cons of Trump supporters. As always, it comes back to the question of: What Would Jesus Do? Whether we’re considering people who don’t want to listen, Canadian truckers, Ukraine and Russia, the Mexican border, war and Christianity, the indoctrination of the church, or conservative Amish communities – in everything, we must follow the example of Jesus.

Nathan is the social media manager for The Bad Roman Project. He makes a lot of the memes you see on our page. You can find Nate and Tony's show and where to connect with them via their link tree (content warning for all of their media: profanity, crude humor, rude comments).

Episode Timestamps:

5:50 Why memes work

• People often seem to get more out of memes than the podcast

• Non-intrusive way to absorb an idea

• Can light a fire… maybe dose a red pill

  • Makes people read all day to learn more

  • Might change their entire perspective on the world

9:01 People who love to smell their own farts

• Some people just want to inform others how wrong they are

• Go on long rants

• You can’t do anything about it when they refuse your offered resources

  • They don’t really want answers

  • “I could tell you, but you're not listening to me anyway.” -Craig

• Saying, “You’re wrong” and writing a novel about why is not going to get you engagement

• Using tired information and arguments won’t convince anyone

• Proving you’re not interested in learning more about what you disagreed with shuts down the conversation

12:45 Canadian truckers

• “I see a bunch of statists running around out there waving their flags, trying to change the government and get the government to give them back their freedoms.” - Craig                                                       

  • We make fun of the patriot libertarians

    • But at least they’re doing something

      • Ancaps are sitting on their butts

      • Agorists are building their own markets and ignoring society

      • “I'm glad that there is some pushback.” - Nate 

      • Maybe they have the wrong approach, but at least theyr’e taking action

• Craig warned them to watch for feds/politicians trying to infiltrate their group

  • The feds are the dumb ones

    • There was a guy at the truck rally waving a Nazi flag

  • They literally all wear the same black boots

  • They try to paint any pushback as racist

    • It’s just normal folks saying, “Keep that crap away from me.”

• Trudeau called them harmful white nationalists

  • As they helped homeless people on the video behind his voice

  • There’s not just white people involved

• What is their goal? How does sitting there help?

  • Trudeau said all truckers must be vaccinated

    • Put a travel ban on unvaccinated

    • Even US truckers coming in must get the shot

    • In the US, like 60% of truckers are not vaccinated

  • They're holding a huge strike

    • Not shipping

    • Clogging up streets

  • People raised over $10 million on GoFundMe

    • It got refunded because the site refused to support the truckers

    • Another site stepped up and raised $3 million in 24 hours

  • Not directly hurting anyone

    • People won’t be able to get what they ordered

      • If there was no effect, what’s the point?

    • They have every right not to do their job

  • Some say it’s not really a grassroots movement

    • Most guys are there to fight the power

    • But it was the deep state’s idea

      • Elon Musk has created self-driving trucks

      • They are going to prevent humans from stopping shipment again by using computers instead

        • “Never again”

  • Wouldn’t it be more effective to just keep doing their jobs unvaccinated?

    • Instead of just sitting there waiting for the government to change its mind

    • People can refuse their shipments if they want

    • But it might have made less of a media splash

    • How could the government really enforce it? There’s too many of them

      • The laws wouldn’t mean anything anymore

  • Actually, a lot of the truckers are vaccinated

    • They’re still protesting with their brothers

    • They don’t believe anyone should be forced into it

    • In most realms of society, it’s the unvaxxed vs vaxxed, but these guys can still work together

    • They haven’t converted to the religion of COVID-19

    • They don’t see those without it as heretics

    • They just watch the news, and the news told them to get it

    • Most people don’t have access to alternative media

    • They’d been locked down for 2 years

    • Believed the vaccine would protect them, that they wouldn’t get COVID (not true), that they wouldn’t spread COVID (not true), and that the symptoms will be less bad (maybe?)

    • Realize they were duped, life didn’t go back to normal, we keep being told if we do just one more thing, it will all be over

    • How long will people continue doing the rain dance that doesn't bring any rain?

    • When will they say, “No! I don't trust you anymore.”

    • People are afraid to eat crow

    • They don't want to admit they were wrong, so they just continue to do what they're told and pretend to agree

24:47 The reality of COVID

• Some sort of virus definitely exists 

• It might not have actually been any worse than other years

  • The people in charge got to tell us what's causing deaths

    • They know how to manipulate statistics

  • Three years ago, if your grandma had cancer and diabetes, then got the flu and died, the flu would not be blamed

    • Almost everyone had 3 to 4 comorbidities

  • The average age of people who died from COVID was 81

    • The average age of people who die in America regularly is 79

• Theories on why it didn’t hurt most people

  • If they really made this in a lab, they didn't do a very good job

    • It didn't hurt very many people

    • It's all just a circus made to distract us

    • Or maybe they just weren't able to test it on average humans

      • Maybe they tested it on sickly populations and it wiped out a good chunk of those people

        • Prisoners low on vitamin D and will to live would get much sicker and be more likely to die

    • “They thought it was going to be really bad and were disappointed. So they had to start making up numbers.” - Abby

  • Psy-op 

    • Maybe it wasn’t about wiping out the population

    • Maybe it was about seeing what they could make us do

      • Even places who did not comply at first masked up for Omicron for some reason

        • Omicron meme example

29:18 Mandates

• Some counties in Tennessee tried to hold on to mask mandates

  • The state made them illegal at the county level

    • But schools were still free to choose

    • Craig’s friend’s kids were required to get vaccinated to go to school

      • Abby told her kids they wouldn’t be allowed to go if that happened

      • Nate and Craig would want to get violent if the school required that

        • Craig wouldn’t even stand for masks

    • People living in places where it’s not required are choosing to wear 2 masks and get jabbed

      • They’re scared

    • In Oregon, they forced all school staff to get the vaccine

      • A lot of teachers chose instead to get fired

      • Parents are all mad, but they do nothing

32:26 Schooling

• If we all got together and hired the fired teachers, we could have our own school

  • No more government indoctrination camp

  • No more teaching our kids weird things we don’t want them to learn

  • The unvaxxed teachers are more likely to align with our values

• Let’s come together and homeschool instead of getting our kids vaccinated so that they can be indoctrinated

33:52 Ukraine and Russia

• You have to look back at their history to understand

• Is the threat of war just posturing by Biden?

  • His guys supposedly killed an ISIS leader in Syria the other day

    • Some people say he wasn’t even a leader

    • So many innocent people died in that air strike

  • Is this also just something they’re saying to look good?

  • Biden’s popularity has been plummeting

    • Whenever that happens, they start talking about war

• It doesn’t look like Russia is wanting war

• History

  • Raegan and Gorbachev made an agreement that NATO would never extend east beyond Western Germany and the USSR would not come west of it

  • NATO has taken over many former USSR countries

  • Russia wants at least a buffer between themselves and NATO

    • That was Ukraine

    • They said if NATO came into Ukraine, they’d fight

• Who knows what will happen

  • We’re acting like the biggest bully

    • But are we?

    • We just turned tail and left Afghanistan

• What people are saying

  • Someone said, “Man, those democrats sure do like war”

    • Dude, the republicans continued several wars with Trump in office

    • You just gotta agree with them

      • Because that is true

      • Ask them questions: 

        • Why don’t they like war?

        • Find out their principles

      • Then ask them to be consistent when a republican comes to power

39:26 Border crossers

• Conversation Craig had

  • “Trump gave us a secure border”

  • “By locking kids in cages”

  • “But at least it was secure”

  • “I dunno; doesn’t seem Christlike”

  • *silence*

• Use, “IDK… WWJD?”

• Someone said, “Most of the kids in cages aren’t even related to any adults they came with. I’d rather my kid sit in a cage than be sex trafficked.”

  • Obama made some sort of rule that if you brought a kid with you, the US government would let you through no questions asked

    • So, lots of sex and drug traffickers used that to their advantage

  • They couldn't keep the kids and adults together because they were afraid of the kids being abused, especially since most of them were not with their parents

  • "I don't think the cages are the best solution still. Call me crazy." - Abby

• We just need to get rid of drug laws and borders, and most of these problems would be solved

• Why do people care if anyone comes over the border anyway?

  • What's so wrong about them looking for a better life?

  • People here don't want to work, so why can't they let someone else come do it?

  • So many people who oppose the border don't realize the people getting ahead in their precious capitalist system are bringing people over the border for cheap labor

    • They don't get held accountable, but Mom and Pop places do

  • Work visas

    • Families have to live off one income if one spouse is deported

  • “They’re so sweet; I don’t understand why we treat them like garbage.” - Craig

• Shoot ‘em

  • People want to have snipers on top of the wall picking crossers off

    • Because maybe then they’d think twice about coming over

  • There used to be a group who shot border crossers

  • They have similar attitudes towards Muslims

    • If they saw one with a backpack on, they’d shoot

      • How does one know a man is Muslim?

        • You’d have to do a little interview with him first

45:00 Evangelicals love war and destruction

• They’re the top demographic to support war, capital punishment, torture…

• How is that possible??

  • Maybe it started with one issue, like abortion, and once the Republican Party could control what they thought about that, they could control what they thought about everything else too

  • Conservative culture is more important to them than Jesus or liberty

    • They stick a Jesus fish on their car to prove their love

• Evangelicals will get mad at you when you say you don't support war 

  • They actually seem to equate being a Christian with supporting war

    • They don't see the conflict there

  • “I was that guy…It never dawned on me that murdering people was not what Christ wants us to do.” - Craig

  • There has to be some fascinating psychology behind that

    • Someone made a diabolical plan to cause it

• It’s taught in churches

  • Perhaps most strongly in Southern Baptist congregations

• But people can love their country without loving murder and theft

• The church was infiltrated

  • The first churches in early America were very anti-state

  • Maybe the desire for power was too strong and they combined with the state

  • Maybe they learned loyalty to the state from the Church of England

    • Or they were used to controlling the state through the church

  • The separatists coming from England had been persecuted by the Anglican Church and had no interest in being like them

51:51 Amish

• Were getting murdered by other denominations

• Fled to America

• Stuck their heads in the ground and became entirely separate

• Did not operate like England at all

• Some anabaptists are trying to convince the more conservative Amish groups to engage with the fringes of society

  • They’re so secluded they won’t even help people outside the church

• Their strict rules are a new form of oppression

• Treat their women like second class citizens

  • Jesus never talked about that

  • Maybe it’s an indoctrination

  • A lot of Muslim women say they like and choose their head coverings

• Some Amish communities kick their kids out into the world at 16-18 to let them decide for themselves

  • Some don’t and people flee

    • They send members after them like a Mormon cult

55:54 Reality Czars podcast

• Unscripted

  • Which is good because popular guests who usually repeat the same thing wind up sharing something new or funny

• Nate and Tony teamed up

  • Met at Squatchfest

  • Tony helped Nate kill some pigs for an anarchist animal butchering class

    • (he kind of expected to get killed because Nate’s standing their with a gun and HUGE pigs in the pen, and they were only acquaintances)

  • They had interesting conversations and decided to start a show

• Nate’s side hustle

  • Wife Abbey writes these show notes (hi)

  • He makes the memes

  • Abbey also does proofreading

• Nate’s baby

  • Is actually 8.5 months old now

  • Happily wears bow ties to church

---

Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

48. Meeting People Where They Are with Justin Cornett of For All Tennessee

In this episode, we take the podcast in a bit of a different direction. We are anarchists, but we've brought in someone who works within the state to improve citizens’ lives through the legislature. Justin Cornett started For All Tennessee so he can act as a go-between from citizens to their representatives.

For All TN listens to citizens’ needs and works to get them taken care of them by passing bills. This organization is different because its members vote on which issues to pursue, and the company is not controlled by money. For more information, visit For All Tennessee or email info@foralltn.org. Follow Justin on Facebook and Twitter. 

At The Bad Roman Project, we wish the state didn't exist. But the fact is, it does. I (Craig) have been learning that people won’t immediately jump to anarchy from their brainwashed state. We have to meet them where they're at. We have to find ways to make them see that they don't want to be controlled by an authority, especially one who only cares about them as long as they're contributing financially to the government.

Part of the work Justin is doing is spreading knowledge to average citizens about the unfair and unconstitutional laws they are abiding by. He opens their eyes to what the government is doing and encourages them to join him in pushing their local representatives in a different direction. This is a step towards freedom, a step towards taking control of what's ruling their lives and realizing how harmful the government is to their community. 

Timestamps:

2:43 Biden’s “Proclamation” about vaccine mandates

• It was just a press release

• Good ideas don’t require force

  • It’s a bad idea to criminalize bad decision making

• They never pushed the flu shot quite like this 

• “If they would have just let people decide on their own, more people probably would have taken this shot.” -Craig

• So much overreaction at the beginning by people on both sides of the aisle that people are now almost underactive and unwilling to put an experiment in their arms

• Biden and governors (like Texas and Florida) are making “mandates” about the vaccine – either that it can or cannot be required of specific people

  • But in Tennessee, it is a law that companies cannot require their employees to be vaccinated

    • Craig hasn’t had to choose between his livelihood and his life like so many others

    • Justin helped him talk to his politicians about it

8:30 We still live under our government

• Reality is, we live with a governmental system

  • If we want anything to happen, we have to work within that system

  •  most of the followers of the bad Roman are not ready to declare total anarchy, so we have to ease them into it a bit

  • “The world exists as it exists… If you try to operate contrary to the way the world actually works, it's not going to work out well for you.” -Justin

• Sometimes, people think they’re opposed to you

  • Until you take the time to understand them and explain more

    • And you both find they’ve said the same thing you said before, just differently

  • No one will listen to a headstrong bully

  • Jesus used love, hope, and patience to guide people to His path

    • If we don't use those tools, we will not succeed 

• Someone’s gotta work through the state; just not Craig ;)

13:44 For All Tennessee

• Takes policy ideas to the hill

• Members pay $5+/month

  • They get to vote on which issues are focused on

  • Also, people can designate their money for specific issues

• Utilizes different tactics such as pamphlets, door to door information sharing, and ads

• They do not campaign for or endorse certain politicians. They simply inform people about where all the politicians stand on important issues

• No party affiliation; just what's best for Tennessee

• “You don't fix what the government broke with more government. You can't really fix what the parties have broken with more parties, because the problem is inherent in the parties.” -Justin

• America was supposed to be self-governed through Representatives 

  • But right now there are two organizations who tell us what our options are, and we have to choose which of the 2 is less terrible

    • The only way to change that is for citizens to lean on their representatives

• Working to 

  • Find out what the citizens want 

  • Create policies

  • Lobby for representatives to vote for what do people in their district have asked 

    • If they don’t, they’ll lose votes

  • Find out what representatives think about policies and inform citizens

  • Guide people into a different mindset where they

    • Have influence over public policy

    • Don’t blindly follow government

      • They have the gift of free will 

    • Are aware of and ask for what's best for their community

  • Guide people to take a step towards freedom

• Run by this principle: get policy done that empowers people and limits government

28:23 How the founding fathers might feel about how things work now

• Rollin over in their graves

• If they were here, they’d go to war with our government

  • The federal government was never supposed to have as much power as it does

    • States were supposed to have more control

    • The federal budget is significantly higher than all the states’ budgets combined

    • The States created the federal government

      • And should therefore have more power 

    • The federal government does not constitutionally have the authority to pass a law 

      • But they've been doing it anyway for 100 years 

      • Everyone just behaves like the acts they have passed are law

33:04 Hypocrisy

• Saying we have to follow something because it's the law

  • While also dismissing laws that don't make sense

  • Or even disobeying align yourself while demanding that others get punished for it

•  Saying we should love our neighbor

  •  While also delighting in locking him up for nonviolent crimes

    •  Making his education, career, and family life a massive struggle

    •  Keeping him dependent on the state for sustenance

34:58 A new definition of politics

• Politics happens any time people interact with other people

• If you have a society full of garbage people, it is going to fail regardless of what government it has

• If you have a society full of people who truly care about others, the government won't be needed to control them

• We need a combination of 

  • A kind attitude towards each other and

  • A lack of governmental control

• We've got to focus on the goal

• We need to fix our eyes on Jesus, not what's going on in the world around us

  • Our treasure is not here on Earth 

  • But let's make the most out of what we have here

    •  While recognizing that this isn't the end for us

38:00 Working to limit police power

• Qualified immunity

  • Hasn't been voted on within the organization yet

  • They may or may not work on it, depending on the votes

• No-knock Raids

  • Worked to get 123 out of 132 votes to abolish them in TN

  • Written with police chiefs and the governor's office 

  • Tennessee already had a good record and policies in place to prevent no-knocks

    • This was just the final step

  • Police now have to report any excessive force used

  • Deescalation training is now required

40:52 Low-hanging fruit 

• Going for the policies that are already widely agreed upon

  • They are agreed upon by citizens, not necessarily representatives

  • Civil asset forfeiture

    • The government can see that you have assets and simply take them even when you have done nothing wrong

    • Many representatives see this as a necessary income stream for the government

    • Most average citizens have no idea this is a thing

      • So part of the work is to educate them and ask them to join against it

44:17 Effectiveness Analysis

• We check on the issues we worked on

• We got a bill passed on civil asset forfeiture that made the state more financially responsible when proven to be in the wrong

  • But they have a loophole

  • People are not being reimbursed for their legal fees

  • Now, we have another angle to focus on to help people

48:12 “We are nothing more than a revenue source for the government.” -Craig

• How do people not see this?

  • When a lie becomes commonplace, people just accept it

48:48 COVID migration

• People are moving to different states to escape COVID laws

  • Hopefully, those from the most extreme states don’t bring the lies they lived under with them

    • Conservatives are bad, but liberals are worse

    • Californians moving to Texas

  • In one county of TN, restaurants demanded people’s addresses in order to track their travel

• The government wants to divide and conquer us

  • We should be focusing on the similarities between groups

• Both sides want us to get vaccinated right now

  • Liberals get there by mandating what they think is good for us

  • Both are seeking gain and change culture

    • The way they want the culture to change to is different

    • Both prescribe laws for the purpose of culture shift

55:31 Plans for the new year

• Members can vote on what issues we focus on in 2022

  • Join before the deadline and get your vote in 

• If someone comes to us with $100,000 to work on a particular issue in a certain direction, we still need the approval of our members before moving forward

• As far as we know, no one else operates this way

  • If someone knows of an organization that does, please let us know so we can learn from them and be allies

• Currently, we only work in Tennessee but would love to have chapters in other states and then federally

  • Have incorporated for this reason

  • Everybody wants somebody to be doing this work 

Contact For All TN at info@foralltn.org

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47. Home School: 2021 Year End Round Table

For this year’s year-end roundtable (YERT), we have six guests and friends of the podcast, each with a different view on education to have a discussion on homeschooling in 2021.

Our guests are Abby Cleckner, Kerry Baldwin, Jordan, Nathan Moon, and Chris and Karin Polk, most of who grew up attending public schools. A few of the pannel are, or have been, teachers both within and outside of the public school system. A couple of them currently offer training or courses to adults about how to think for themselves, skills they feel they see as lacking in current public curriculums.

In this episode, we ask questions like, are schools are a training ground for compliant citizens who will pull whatever lever they are told without question? Does the system set teachers and students up to struggle?

Most of the panel currently homeschool their children and view it as the only real way to protect their family values and provide an education tailored to their specific childs’ interests.

They also discuss how formal education influences people’s understandings and perspectives on how the world works, in terms of politics and social structures in society. If our public school system was created to make a compliant labor force, with no desire to question the system or learn on their own, then we must encourage our children to pursue their personal interests, to learn how to think and enable them to with the tools to do it themselves.

Control of our children’s education starts at home. Homeschooling might seem like an impossible dream but, especially in the last couple of years, families of every background have found a way, and there are endless resources for innumerable methods to teach the next generation.

Timestamps:

00:49 Announcements for 2022

• New Bad Roman sponsorship program

  • The first 10 people who sponsor the show for 4 episodes will get a 5th episode free 

  • Advertise your podcast, product, or blog

  • Tell us what you want to say: thebadromanpodcast@gmail.com

• New co-host

  • Abby Cleckner!!

    • She’s written for the blog, been on the podcast, gone on other podcasts for the bad Roman, and just been an essential part of the work we're doing

4:08 Guest introductions

• Jordan 

  • Grew up at public school in West Texas

  • Has a teaching certificate in Texas

    •  Left public schools for so many reasons

    •  Now teaches at a university model homeschool group

•  Kerry Baldwin

  • Teacher of the Socratic Method

  • Homeschool Parent

    • Three kids

    • Divorced mom 

    • Works from home

  •  Homeschooled as a kid 

    • Before it was legal in New Mexico

      • “I like to say that my education was born from civil disobedience.”

  • Socratic method

    •  AKA inquiry-based learning

    •  Courses available for middle school on up

      • For both students and teachers leading students through the method

      • Register for summer here

• Karin Polk

  • Grew up in public school

  • Stay-at-home parent

  • Homeschooling all three kids starting 11 years ago

• Chris Polk

  • Grew up in public school

  • Claims homeschooled status for himself now because he’s learning so much with his kids

    • It’s like doing school over again, but actually learning something  

• Nathan Moon

  • Had a good experience in public school

  • Most families at their church homeschooled, so they did too

  • Taught in a public school

    • Only lasted a year

• Abby Cleckner

  • Went to public school

    • K-college

    • Moved a lot

  • Had a terrible experience when she put her kids in

    • Switched to a magnet, but then moved to rural area without one 

  • Lets her older kids decide where to go to school

    • Homeschools the younger ones

    • Older ones have chosen to stay in public

    • “Homeschooling is teaching them to be self-directed and make their own decisions and use their own logic to figure things out. And so, in that vein, I feel like it's not my place to force them into what kind of schooling.”

13:28 Why are people ignorant in 2021?

• Why don't they understand how our governmental system works?

  • Didn't we learn that in public school?

    • They actually cut civics classes out of school in the 90’s

      • But it's not only young people who don't understand

  • Perhaps people are just so focused on their favorite news anchor that they don't remember facts

    • Like that an executive order from the president can't override state law, thanks to the 10th Amendment

  • Homeschool Community has grown dramatically since COVID

  • New truckers come to Chris because they want freedom, but they've never learned to think for themselves

    • They never really learned to comprehend what they're reading or do basic math for themselves

    • If they previously worked for a big corporation, all they know is how to do what they're told 

    • His students get so frustrated when he won't just give them the answer

  • It's the same at school as in corporations

    • Sit down. Shut up. And do (or learn) what I tell you.

    • Prussian model of “Just pull the lever”. You don't have to know why

  • Schools don't care if you're learning

    • You cannot be held back when you fail; you will still graduate to the next level “for social reasons”

      • So many kids wind up graduating from high school with maybe a fifth-grade-level education because they were not required to pass their classes

        • What can they be successful at?

          •  Pulling a lever

    • Teachers are likely to care, but they're held back by the administration

      • That is why so many teachers are also leaving public schools

    • Schools don't communicate with parents

      • There was a kid who had passed a total of 3 classes in all of high school, and his parents didn't find out until the school informed them that he wasn't graduating at the end of his senior year

24:24 Why are teachers leaving public schools?

• From a behavioral standpoint, if you take an underpaid overworked position and pile more work on it, people are going to want to escape that position

  • Teachers do many hours of extra work outside the classroom during the summer and at home during the school year

  • The average secondary school teacher has about 120 students they are solely responsible for teaching in their subject

    •  No support from parents

    •  Lots of red tape from admin

  • That's why teachers are always so excited for summer

  • COVID brought very different expectations to the position

    • Tons of extra work

  • So, we have a teacher shortage

• If a student is willing to take advanced classes, they might get a decent education

• Schools often hire people who don't have a teaching degree as long as they are in school to finish that degree

  • “Almost anyone can be a teacher. All you have to do is just find the Craigslist ad and dust off your transcripts. But that doesn't mean that you're a good teacher.” -Nathan

• “A lot of parents are pulling their kids from public education because they're realizing they're not receiving systematic instruction, they're receiving systematic indoctrination.” -Nathan

  • Teachers are also realizing this and are unwilling to participate

• Teachers almost never quit because they don't like teaching or because of the children

  • It’s the policies they have to follow

• This disaster started in the 1800's when we changed our education system

  • Suddenly, professionals/the state were responsible for teaching our children rather than their parents

  • It contributes to the breakdown of the family

  • Parents don't know how their kids are doing in school

    • Teachers watch the children failing, and are tied down by policies that prevent them from intervening

32:18 The roles of students and teachers

• “When we talk about education, we are talking about what the adults are doing for the kids, but. We're not talking about what the kids are doing in order to learn. And this is, I think, a mistake.” -Kerry

  • Students’ interest is essential

    • Even the greatest teacher cannot teach students who don't care about the subject

• Teachers: architects or gardeners?

  • Architects build a very specific product

    • This is what public schools want teachers to be

  • Gardners feed and tend to their plants, which will not come out looking identical 

    • Provide the environment; it's up to the plants to grow

• Whose responsibility is it to make the school look good?

  • “Administrators and bureaucrats put a ton of pressure on teachers, teachers, in turn, put a ton of pressure on kids and parents, parents put a ton of pressure on kids and kids are carrying the education systems on their backs.” -Kerry

• “Education is learning how to learn so that you can teach yourself whatever it is that you want to teach yourself.” -Kerry 

  • It isn’t learning a bunch of facts

    • It's learning why those facts are important

  • Parents aren't going to know everything, so it's important the kids know how to learn on their own or alongside their parent

41:13 Curriculum

• A curriculum that worked well for one kid is not likely to work well for all of them

  • Don't expect to use the same one for all of your children

  • We cannot recommend a curriculum that will work well for every child

• Many new homeschool parents seek to replicate public school at home

  • Everyone gets burned out

  • The parents feel like failures

  • Breathe and just go with what they're interested in.

    • They will learn naturally

    • “Keep it simple, Stupid.” -Chris 

43:35 How has education influenced what we've seen happening these last couple years?

• Public schools don't teach how to analyze a text

  • People have not been critically reading the articles they consume

    • They don't know how to tell what information is important and how to apply it to their life

• Even a lot of homeschool curriculum is just filling in bubbles with the right information

• Instead of bullet points and boring charts, information should be narrative

  • That's what humans naturally are; that's how we've always learned 

• When kids are learning about their personal interests, they learn a lot more quickly and in-depth than when a tired teacher is trying to reach 30 students who don't want to be there every day

• Kids also need more time to play and learn that way

  • Developmentally, they simply cannot be expected to sit still for 8 hours every day with only two 15-minute breaks

    • Actually, adults shouldn't be expected to do that either!

•  Homeschoolers can go as in-depth on a topic if they want

  •  They’ll learn more than just the public school propaganda:

    • This bad thing happened in history, but America swooped in and saved the day. The end.

• If a student wants to learn more about a topic or keep reading, that's seen as a problem, and they “need to learn to work on their transitions”; to comply with the system better 

  • Kids aren't allowed to enjoy learning, so they quit trying

  • They're rewarded for pulling the lever, not for exploring why the lever is there

  • Learning is not encouraged; compliance is

• MAGA makes sense when you think of the public school history propaganda

  • We all learned that, especially back in the 40s and 50s, America solved all the world's problems and was a prosperous nation

    • “They're too dumb to know they're dumb” -Jordan

  • But now schools have swung away from this teaching

    •  Changed to: America is the worst. White people are the worst. 

  • The only way you'll have control over what your children learn and the values instilled in their brains is to home-school them

    • A lot of people think there's no way they can homeschool their kids

      • They are losing free babysitting

      • There’s the pressure to succeed that comes from government requirements for teachers, schools, and students

      • But the lesson time takes half as long

      • All types of parents have found a way to succeed

    • If you know the Socratic method, you can learn even from the most terrible, one-sided curriculum

      • Because you’ll know how to ask the right questions

• Media represented by talking heads who were taught what to think

• But there are exciting technologies coming

  • Like blockchain

  • We can get ourselves and our kids ahead of the game by learning about it while most students are busy being indoctrinated

1:10:07 Options for homeschooling

• University Model

  •  Kids go into a small school 2 or 3 days a week

  •  The other days, they are at home doing their homework 

• Or at least find a co-op of other parents who can support your journey

• YOU ARE QUALIFIED TO TEACH YOUR CHILD

• There are so many tools available for all different styles of learning

• We don't need the Department of Education

  • They were only established in the 70s

  • Our education system would probably improve if they went under because everyone would be homeschooling 

  • It's actually unconstitutional and should never have existed 

1:14:03 Final Thoughts & Where to Connect with our Guest

• Nathan

  • Homeschooling is possible for your family. You can find a way

    • Even if you don't do it, do take a greater interest in your child's education

    • Take the initiative

  • Theology Writings 

  • Fiction Writing and Poetry 

    • Children can send submissions here, and I’ll post them

• Chris

  •  We should get disgruntled teachers to open little schools

  • Trucking company, Blue Ribbon Logistics

  • Podcast

•  Jordan

  • You can't do it wrong

    • If you're considering changing your child's schooling, you clearly love them and want what's best for them

    • Follow your gut

    • They are your child, given to you because you would know how to care for them

• Kerry

  • Socratic Method Courses

  • Email

• Abby

  • The homeschool community continues to grow exponentially

  • Even people who are fans of the public school system have criticisms

  • COVID regulations have made schools into literal prisons

  • Find me on the Bad Roman podcast!

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37. Think for Yourself with Karen Keener

Karen Keener, free thinker, natural health advocate, owner of The Sovereign Mom, and head of the Army of None (not yet released) can be found on Facebook, Instagram, and emailed at thekarenkeener@gmail.com.

She joins us today to talk about the denominational and political division among American Christians, the validity of most COVID diagnoses, and the blind compliance of the American public.

Timestamps & Starting Points:

1:35 “A church for smart people”

• Growing up at Christian school, kids would fight about which denomination was right

• She longed for a church without so much dogma, who used critical thinking

  • Without fear of being called blasphemous

• Found Church of Religious Science

  • But politics got in there too

  • “politics gets involved in spirituality and then it's not really spiritual anymore” -Karen

5:39 Churches claiming to be the only valid -- or even the original -- group

• But… many denominations started in the US

  • How can they trace their history back to the Early Church?

  • The Early Church was about Jesus, not doctrinal division

• "I wanted to understand how they related to the state and there was no Baptist or church of Christ or Pentecostal, or none of that mentioned in their writings. It was all about Jesus." - Craig

9:28 Trump is equated with Jesus

• "There was this whole fear that you were going to burn in Hell if you ask any questions." - Karen

• It’s grown up to adulthood where people don’t question authority

  • Don’t question Trump

    • He is fighting the evil illuminati

  • They’ll call anyone who uses their own brain demonic

  • Y’all are crazy

14:11 It’s almost like Borderline Personality Disorder

• Anything I agree with is holy

• Anything I disagree with is evil

• Humans are not seen as complex

  • They are either the embodiment of evil or good itself

  • If you point out a flaw or positive, they’ll say “Nobody’s perfect; only Jesus”

• “This is like saying that Jack Black isn't a perfect replica of Beyonce… like they both can sing high notes, but like they're not perfect.     They’re such a far cry from each other, like Trump and perfection is so far away.” -Karen

  • It doesn’t matter if the person they’re following blatantly does evil, it is acceptable to them. If their enemy did that, they would be so upset

• Young people are not growing up

  • Their parents are paying for everything

  • They’re taught not to think or question

  • They have been taught lies about history

  • Changing any of that is terrifying, so they cling to it

20:55 Craig and Karen’s political journeys

• Guiding resources:

  • Sibel Edmonds’ book

  • Eva Bartlett reporting on Syria

  • Dr. Joseph Mercola on medical freedom

  • Larken Rose

•  “I think taking a nap is way more productive than voting.” -Craig

29:46  COVID theatrics

• Karen’s friend’s dad got it

  • Proved to her that it was a real illness

  • Got sent away from the hospital because he “wasn’t bad enough for a ventilator”

  • Died after being on the ventilator for a month

  • Hospital would not offer any other treatment

• Craig medically can’t mask

  • So he had to find other ways to fight it

    • VITAMINS

  • People with masks were the ones getting sick

  • He never got it, even when he spent time with those who did

• Misdiagnosing COVID

  • Bacterial pneumonia and the flu both fit the diagnostic criteria

  • The actual tests were inaccurate

• Deaths

  • Most people die in hospitals

    • If you diagnose everyone who comes into a hospital with COVID, then a lot of deaths will count towards it

• Kerry Baldwin, The Virulence of Moral Panic

• Misdiagnosing the flu

  • 37:15 Doctors are telling people, “The flu doesn’t exist anymore.”

  • Peter Doshi article from 2013

  • Make a big deal of it every year until now

  • They don’t usually test for Influenza

    • What if the symptoms are caused by something else?

      • Another illness

      • Eating poorly/detoxing from holidays

      • Less sun

      • Cold weather

      • Mold

      • Stress

• Refusing to treat people

  • Hospitals incentivized to have serious cases

  • Didn’t offer typical pneumonia treatments to help

    • Waited for patients to be severe enough for ventilators

41:52 What’s the next thing?

• Karen's episode with Pete Quinones

• People are rule-followers, not boat-rockers

• Changing the rules

  • Little kids need to mask now

• Can they mandate a vaccine for work?

  • Anyone can ask, but they cannot require you to answer

• We have our own authority; we don’t have to follow irrational laws

• But how do we know who is on our side now?

  • People are not wearing masks because they’re vaccinated AND because they just don’t want to

• Maybe an alien invasion to unite us under one world government?

• “Not that COVID was fake, but the pandemic was fake.” -Karen

• They’re timing the changes in law so people will feel grateful and willing to listen

  • Babylon Bee's satire article

  • People believe their rights come from the Constitution, not from within themselves